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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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D

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People supporting a Gen 7 mon that isn't Decidueye? Blasphemy
I'm just joking guys
but seriously where are the Decidueye supporters around here
 
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Knight Dude

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*Checks thread*
People supporting a Gen 7 mon that isn't Decidueye? Blasphemy
I'm just joking guys
but seriously where are the Decidueye supporters around here
I don't know, playing Pokken probably.

So anyway, something a little interesting, if any of you had to choose, Snake or Simon Belmont? Both are Konami. One's the very first 3rd party fighter. And the other has close association with Nintendo.

I wouldn't mind both if it ever happened. But I personally would like to see Simon since a lot can be done with the Vampire Killer whip.
 
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So anyway, something a little interesting, if any of you had to choose, Snake or Simon Belmont?
I'd choose the snek. :snake: I miss him.
Edit: Did you quote my post just to spite me?
 
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Diddy Kong

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*Checks thread*
People supporting a Gen 7 mon that isn't Decidueye? Blasphemy
I'm just joking guys
but seriously where are the Decidueye supporters around here
Back at the bandwagon from whence they came! :upsidedown:

Seriously though, I don't think a Grass starter is that much needed for roster representation. I mean, it's not even one of the more popular Pokemon Types in the franchise even. I'd argue that it's only sort of relevant because you have the OPTION to pick a Grass stater each game, but it really never was the most popular option...

Torterra however I'd support without a single doubt.



NOW THAT'S A GRASS STARTER RIGHT THERE!!
 
D

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Back at the bandwagon from whence they came! :upsidedown:

Seriously though, I don't think a Grass starter is that much needed for roster representation. I mean, it's not even one of the more popular Pokemon Types in the franchise even. I'd argue that it's only sort of relevant because you have the OPTION to pick a Grass stater each game, but it really never was the most popular option...

Torterra however I'd support without a single doubt.



NOW THAT'S A GRASS STARTER RIGHT THERE!!
>Implying I used "Grass starter" arguement and that there is no other reason to suppprt Decidueye

Actually, I support Decidueye because it's one of my favorite Pokemon, and because I find it to be a great fit for Smash.

As for how likely I think it is, you can't act like Decidueye isn't popular or relevant, because that's simply not true. I believe it's the most popular Alola starter actually.

I don't think it's a lock nor do I think it's more likely than, say, Incineroar, but it probably isn't less likely, either. Hell, we might not even get a Gen 7 mon in Sm5sh at all.

tl;dr Don't label all Decidueye supporters as bandwagoners.
 

Mythra

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Hot take: No Gen 7 starter makes it to Smash.
But a Gen 8 one does.
 

Bowserlick

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So anyway, something a little interesting, if any of you had to choose, Snake or Simon Belmont? Both are Konami. One's the very first 3rd party fighter. And the other has close association with Nintendo.

I wouldn't mind both if it ever happened. But I personally would like to see Simon since a lot can be done with the Vampire Killer whip.
Simon Belmont. I remember the SNES game. Great design and boss battles.

Also, Snake was in a Smash game. I think in most cases I would prefer the new face for guest characters.
 

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My thoughts on the topics at hand.

1. On the Topic of Ultra Beasts, I think it's best if they get their own stage. It could work like Spear Pillar and Unova League, having random Ultra Beasts appear and do stuff.

Nigalego, Pheramosa and Guzzlord would do what @Luminario said, Buzzwole could... flex, Xurkitree could shock the platforms like that one Midgar summon, Kartana could break the stage (Like that other one), Celesteela could sit this one out, Burst could do that head explosion thing, Assembly could trap an opponent inside of It and doing damage, and Adesive could go sit on the bench with Celesteela.

2. Snake. I was never a huge Snake fan, but It hurts to see anyone cut.
 

Knight Dude

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I'd choose the snek. :snake: I miss him.
Edit: Did you quote my post just to spite me?
Nah. Just messing around and all.

Simon Belmont. I remember the SNES game. Great design and boss battles.

Also, Snake was in a Smash game. I think in most cases I would prefer the new face for guest characters.
If they had Simon's theme from that game when they revealed him, it would be sick as all hell.

My thoughts on the topics at hand.

1. On the Topic of Ultra Beasts, I think it's best if they get their own stage. It could work like Spear Pillar and Unova League, having random Ultra Beasts appear and do stuff.

Nigalego, Pheramosa and Guzzlord would do what @Luminario said, Buzzwole could... flex, Xurkitree could shock the platforms like that one Midgar summon, Kartana could break the stage (Like that other one), Celesteela could sit this one out, Burst could do that head explosion thing, Assembly could trap an opponent inside of It and doing damage, and Adesive could go sit on the bench with Celesteela.

2. Snake. I was never a huge Snake fan, but It hurts to see anyone cut.
Fair enough. But I actually liked playing Snake. I just don't know if Konami would get two characters like Capcom did with Mega Man and Ryu, or SEGA(to an extent)with Sonic and Bayo. If came to one, I'd go for Simon, but Snake isn't a bad choice.
 

Mythra

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"Hot take"?

Though honestly, people put too much stock in the whole "Starter" thing in general.
My takes are hot because I used to be burning :V

Actually I think no Gen 7 Pokémon in general will make it.

Odd numbered gens (not counting Gen 1 of course) seem to be the losers when it comes to Smash representation.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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A new Pokemon doesn't need to be a starter, everyone.

In fact, before Brawl happened, none of the Pokemon characters were starters (unless you count Pokemon Yellow).

And even then, the starters that did appear got in for reasons other than "they're a starter in the current gen"
  • If you count Pokemon Yellow, then Pikachu is one of those starters, but let's be real, it's his status as the franchise's mascot that got him in Smash, not the fact that he was starter in a special edition of Gen I.
  • Squirtle, Ivysaur and Charizard were chosen for the Pokemon Trainer, but they first showed up in Brawl, during the fourth generation, so why not Gen 4's starters?
  • The reason Greninja got in is that Sakurai saw his design and thought "I could do something cool with this." The fact that he became the most popular Gen 6 starter is a pure coincidence since he started working on him before X and Y were even released.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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My takes are hot because I used to be burning :V

Actually I think no Gen 7 Pokémon in general will make it.

Odd numbered gens (not counting Gen 1 of course) seem to be the losers when it comes to Smash representation.
It's all a matter of timing. Let's not forget that Gen 3 and 5 still have tons of content in Smash at the time too. Don't forget that Pokemon Trainer was based upon his Gen 3 redesign as well.

It's really just more of coincidental timing. Now, to be fair, Gen 3 and 5 didn't have have a Lucario-level Pokemon either. Gen 2 only got a clone for playable(who was legit popular and had movies, mind you, but he wasn't the same thing).

Greninja was chosen before it became popular. It was a Sakurai thing, where he had inspiration. The fact it became hyper popular is a mere coincidence, but it's still kind of the only Pokemon to be on Lucario levels(ignoring 1st Gen Pokemon). So some of it is who is iconic/promoted the most, some of it is "just the right timing". Gen 7 absolutely has stand-outs, but unless a Pokemon becomes so huge that is spans Generations from there(which is possible), it wouldn't simply be chosen if the development time wasn't during when that particular Pokemon was huge. Of course, that doesn't mean other factors can't decide it. As noted, movies and various promotions can easily help determine a popular Pokemon.

For 7, it has multiple major stand-outs. 3 and 5 have some, but they didn't last all that long. 7 we don't know yet. Will some of them stay hot for years to come, when the games no longer are all that relevant? Maybe. If so, then 1 of those still could become playable. And then there's development time for Smash Switch. Many characters are chosen during that time because a game is currently relevant or being worked on. This could mean a Gen 8 or even an USUM Pokemon exclusive gets in. There's a lot of factors.

Even if we get no new Pokemon in Smash Switch, we still we get tons of content among the more relevant games. Gen 7 stuff is very likely to show up as is unless Smash Switch comes out something like 8 years from now. Which is not all that realistic. I'd say maybe 2-3 years tops, if it's announced this year, anyway.
 
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My takes are hot because I used to be burning :V

Actually I think no Gen 7 Pokémon in general will make it.

Odd numbered gens (not counting Gen 1 of course) seem to be the losers when it comes to Smash representation.
Technically, Generation 2 is a loser as well. Just one that's barely less of one in comparison.
Yes, Pichu was in Melee, but neither Pichu nor any other Pokemon from Johto were initially planned despite the new Generation having been released by that point. The only planned newcomer was Mewtwo.
 

Diddy Kong

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>Implying I used "Grass starter" arguement and that there is no other reason to suppprt Decidueye

Actually, I support Decidueye because it's one of my favorite Pokemon, and because I find it to be a great fit for Smash.

As for how likely I think it is, you can't act like Decidueye isn't popular or relevant, because that's simply not true. I believe it's the most popular Alola starter actually.

I don't think it's a lock nor do I think it's more likely than, say, Incineroar, but it probably isn't less likely, either. Hell, we might not even get a Gen 7 mon in Sm5sh at all.

tl;dr Don't label all Decidueye supporters as bandwagoners.


Chill out bruv.

Yeah, Decidueye could work. Sure. I personally just prefer Buzzwhole and Mimikyu. You have your tastes, I have mine. Neither is superior.

I personally like Sceptile, especially after seeing it in Pokken. But yeah, Pokken is able to make me want Weavile and Scizor without joking around.

If you haven't noticed, I like to poke fun every now and then. Smash speculation is at it's lowest low at this point, so I personally see no problem having silly discussions.
 

Chandeelure

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Bewear is the superior Pokemon option and you know it.

...

Also, Bandana Dee is

Playable in that Kirby 3DS fighting game.

So...

Bandana Dee confirmed for Smash Switch.
 

Blackwolf666

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I finally decided to buy the switch and so far disappointed at the lack of good games. I can count the games I'd want to buy on 1 hand so I'm now wishing for smash switch to be announced even more.

As for the new pokemon character... honestly, they tend to choose the most popular pokemon at the moment excluding Greninja (his popularity happened after his announcement for smash when he got his broken hidden ability). So, Id say Mimikyu has the best shot at the moment.
 
D

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I finally decided to buy the switch and so far disappointed at the lack of good games. I can count the games I'd want to buy on 1 hand so I'm now wishing for smash switch to be announced even more.

As for the new pokemon character... honestly, they tend to choose the most popular pokemon at the moment excluding Greninja (his popularity happened after his announcement for smash when he got his broken hidden ability). So, Id say Mimikyu has the best shot at the moment.
Lucario was added before he became the real juggernaut for the franchise he would be.
Being a movie star around the same time the roster got picked really helped.

Mewtwo was also planned for Smash before he became a major request as well, back in the original Smash. Also due to a movie.

Mimikyu has a good shot for Gen. 7 due to how promoted it is overall, but it has very steep competition.
 
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Strider_Bond00J

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I wouldn't be opposed to Buzzwole appearing in some fashion - Playable would be a pleasant surprise, but I see it likely to be relegated as a Stage Hazard on an Ultra Space stage. Personally my preference would be Decidueye, but Buzzwole would be a pretty out-there choice to keep people on their toes.
 

Autumn ♫

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I finally decided to buy the switch and so far disappointed at the lack of good games. I can count the games I'd want to buy on 1 hand so I'm now wishing for smash switch to be announced even more.

As for the new pokemon character... honestly, they tend to choose the most popular pokemon at the moment excluding Greninja (his popularity happened after his announcement for smash when he got his broken hidden ability). So, Id say Mimikyu has the best shot at the moment.
Why would you buy a system with barely any games you want?
 

Diddy Kong

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I remember the movies with Jigglypuff and Greninja. Best ones yet.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Why would you buy a system with barely any games you want?
In all fairness, some people would buy a console for just a few games.

Heck, I bought a Switch solely for Odyssey and BotW. I got more than those, but those two games were my primary reasons.

And the Wii U? Literally just because of Smash.
 
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APC99

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Both Lucario and Greninja getting into Smash was just either dumb luck or inconceivable foresight from Sakurai and his team. Both became poster boys for their respective generations without the Smash boost, and were chosen before they even knew if they'd be popular, hence why Lucario and Greninja have strange Smash-exclusive abilities like the aura mechanic and Greninja's water swords.

With Smash 4 DX / Smash Switch, it really depends on when it's being put into development. Considering we don't know if the new mainline Pokemon RPG for Switch will be part of Gen 7 or kick off Gen 8, we don't know if it'll impact anything in the roster selection, or if the roster has already been selected, et cetera. Because we know so little about Smash 5 (or Smash 6, depending on who you ask), it's too early to say whether or not Gen 7 characters like Decidueye, Incineroar, or swole mosquito could be in.
 
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I remember the movies with Jigglypuff and Greninja. Best ones yet.
Excluding anything with Ash's Greninja for obvious reasons.....



Not that the movie role was what got Greninja in as Greninja was added well before this movie was in production and Greninja was rather unconventional in terms of how it did get in, but if you're going to be a smartass, at least know all the facts so you don't end up making yourself look like a dumbass instead. Just some advice... :V

Aside from that, do you even have a point...?
Sakurai has literally stated that the development team looks to current movies for possible character ideas during a brief interview during Smash 4's development and has stated within a questionnaire on Melee's Japanese website that one of the reasons he wanted to include Mewtwo in Smash to begin with was due to its starring role in the first movie.
 
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Blackwolf666

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Why would you buy a system with barely any games you want?
I don't buy games as much anymore plus it came with one of the few games I knew I'd enjoy and the portability works for me since I don't stick at home much anymore anyway. There's also a few games I have some expectations for like Xenoblade chronicles 2, Super Mario Odyssey, No More Heroes 3 and Metroid Prime 4.

I remember the movies with Jigglypuff and Greninja. Best ones yet.
Lets not forget the Kanto Starter Pokemon movie, I still tear up.
 
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APC99

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Well, ladies and gentlemen, native GameCube controller adapter support. So it works with every game.

No longer must we improvise, adapt, or overcome, we can continue clinging on to our sixteen-year-old controller for every console generation to come! /s

(In all seriousness, this is good news for those into competitive Smash AND anyone hoping for GameCube VC. Having wired GCC support through the Smash adapter is yet another great feature they've added to the console).
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Just to clarify, it doesn't have analog support inherently. Albeit, it didn't when used on the Wii U either. All games have to be programmed to use the Adapter specifically. This was the only real issue with it on the Wii U. It wasn't designed to be inherently compatible with tons of games like "normal" controllers.

This is still great. And honestly, it shouldn't be that hard to make sure all Gamecube VC games are properly compatible with the adapter(including the proper L and R clicks).
 
D

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Chill out bruv.

Yeah, Decidueye could work. Sure. I personally just prefer Buzzwhole and Mimikyu. You have your tastes, I have mine. Neither is superior.

I personally like Sceptile, especially after seeing it in Pokken. But yeah, Pokken is able to make me want Weavile and Scizor without joking around.

If you haven't noticed, I like to poke fun every now and then. Smash speculation is at it's lowest low at this point, so I personally see no problem having silly discussions.
Sorry, it happens sometimes. I need to keep my temper in check.

But who cares about me or my temper, let's continue discussing.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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So anyway, something a little interesting, if any of you had to choose, Snake or Simon Belmont? Both are Konami. One's the very first 3rd party fighter. And the other has close association with Nintendo.

I wouldn't mind both if it ever happened. But I personally would like to see Simon since a lot can be done with the Vampire Killer whip.
Snake would definitely be my choice. I would also love Simon, or Alucard/another Belmont, but I feel Bomberman is more likely than a Castlevania character. Maybe not as likely as Snake. The dream is all three but, uh, lol.
 

MAtgSy

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Well, ladies and gentlemen, native GameCube controller adapter support. So it works with every game.

No longer must we improvise, adapt, or overcome, we can continue clinging on to our sixteen-year-old controller for every console generation to come! /s

(In all seriousness, this is good news for those into competitive Smash AND anyone hoping for GameCube VC. Having wired GCC support through the Smash adapter is yet another great feature they've added to the console).
Yeah, we're probably getting Melee on VC if nothing else.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Well, ladies and gentlemen, native GameCube controller adapter support. So it works with every game.

No longer must we improvise, adapt, or overcome, we can continue clinging on to our sixteen-year-old controller for every console generation to come! /s

(In all seriousness, this is good news for those into competitive Smash AND anyone hoping for GameCube VC. Having wired GCC support through the Smash adapter is yet another great feature they've added to the console).
Interesting, but also irrelevant if you can't even find the product anymore.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Yeah, we're probably getting Melee on VC if nothing else.
But only because they need to program Melee when rereleased to specifically make the buttons act properly on the Adapter's controllers. The problem is the Adapter isn't compatible with tons of games as it's not a regular controller option. It's just something that lets you use Gamecube Controllers on specific games, that are programmed to use the controller. It was never inherently compatible with the Wii U like the Pro Controllers were. This is a huge deal with its design.

This also means every VC game needs more data before releasing in order to use the GCN controller. Take the L and R buttons. Normally, you can use them to do multiple types of presses due to their analog design. This is unable to work unless a Wii U/Switch game is programmed to use this feature.

That means that no matter what game they make for Smash, it will have unique programming. So let's say, they wanted to release Melee HD; They have to reprogram some of it from the start, and that's assuming they have the original data to easily remake the game. From our understanding, they lost that data and it's too old to easily "recreate". This is why Mewtwo was harder to add to Smash 4. Data from Melee was too old and incompatible.
 

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I personally like Sceptile, especially after seeing it in Pokken. But yeah, Pokken is able to make me want Weavile and Scizor without joking around.
I wouldn't mind Scizor entering in Smash. I think this Gen 2 Pokémon could truly bring something unique to the table. Judging by what it knows naturally, Feint could possibly be used as an anti-counter technique. Razor Wind could be a wind projectile, but Scizor's stats would suggest a physical fighter with some good defenses. Mega Forms are used for Charizard and Mewtwo for their Final Smashes and I think Scizor would follow suit. Since Scizor was a Pokéball summon in Melee, Scizor being fully playable would be a promotion, similar to how Charizard was promoted in Brawl and went solo in Smash for Wii U/3DS. Now where the Smash statistics could go depends on abilities, Technician or Light Metal if used.

I'd also be super okay with Incineroar as well, given that Litten was my starter.
As for Incineroar, I can easily think of Incineroar getting a crossover outfit based off of Tekken's Armor King if both Incineroar and a Tekken character playable in Smash and if we ever get crossover outfits.


Well, ladies and gentlemen, native GameCube controller adapter support. So it works with every game.

No longer must we improvise, adapt, or overcome, we can continue clinging on to our sixteen-year-old controller for every console generation to come! /s

(In all seriousness, this is good news for those into competitive Smash AND anyone hoping for GameCube VC. Having wired GCC support through the Smash adapter is yet another great feature they've added to the console).
It's pretty good that the Gamecube controller is supported. It's whether they'll take advantage of it or not (like possible GC Virtual Console releases and/or as a wider span of supported games than the Wii U) is the question.
 
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TeddyBearYoshi

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Conversation has probably been done to death, and is unrelated to anything going on in the thread right now, but Smash 5 as a concept (regardless of if it's on Switch or etc; ) worries me.

SSB3DS/U has 58 characters. It took a ridiculously long time to develop, even longer to balance and a few of the characters didn't even come until post-launch. This isn't even considering all of the other modes/custom moves/etc;

How are they going to one-up that for a sequel in a realistic amount of time/development cost? Do they have to? There's no doubt the characters are one, if not the main selling point(s) for Smash. If they try to one-up it, how could we expect characters to be as unique, or as balanced as Sm4sh is? If they don't, it's likely a lot of fan-favorites will be cut in favor of different characters, and etc;

I don't want them to nor do I think they ever would, but I've also seen suggestions of rebooting the franchise or slimming it down to rebalance or redo it in a different and/or more streamlined fashion.

Look at the response to MvC from a casual audience and now think of how Smash's would react to these kinds of things. I guess I kind of rambled on here and don't really know what my point is, likely mostly nonsense but I suppose this serves as more of a basis for my question to Smash 5:

Where do they go from here?
 
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Zerp

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Conversation has probably been done to death, and is unrelated to anything going on in the thread right now, but Smash 5 as a concept (regardless of if it's on Switch or etc; ) worries me.

SSB3DS/U has 58 characters. It took a ridiculously long time to develop, even longer to balance and a few of the characters didn't even come until post-launch. This isn't even considering all of the other modes/custom moves/etc;

How are they going to one-up that for a sequel in a realistic amount of time/development cost? Do they have to? There's no doubt the characters are one, if not the main selling point(s) for Smash. If they try to one-up it, how could we expect characters to be as unique, or as balanced as Sm4sh is? If they don't, it's likely a lot of fan-favorites will be cut in favor of different characters, and etc;

I don't want them to nor do I think they ever would, but I've also seen suggestions of rebooting the franchise or slimming it down to rebalance or redo it in a different and/or more streamlined fashion.

Look at the response to MvC from a casual audience and now think of how Smash's would react to these kinds of things. I guess I kind of rambled on here and don't really know what my point is, likely mostly nonsense but I suppose this serves as more of a basis for my question to Smash 5:

Where do they go from here?
Not saying this is where they will go, but I think the smartest thing to do would be to port over the Wii U game as is and use that as a base to build off of, that way all they'd have to do is work on improving the balance and focus on adding new content without having to worry about downsizing the game.
 
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Schnee117

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SSB3DS/U has 58 characters. It took a ridiculously long time to develop, even longer to balance and a few of the characters didn't even come until post-launch. This isn't even considering all of the other modes/custom moves/etc;
It took just over two and a half years (April 2012 to Smash Wii U's release in November 2014) of active development across two platforms whilst balance patches and post-launch content are standard for fighting games now (and were when Smash 4 released) and shouldn't be counted as part of the main development.

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/10/03/smash4devtimeline/

Future Smash games most likely won't have to deal with being developed across two platforms let alone two platforms with such a difference in terms of specs.

 

Cutie Gwen

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Conversation has probably been done to death, and is unrelated to anything going on in the thread right now, but Smash 5 as a concept (regardless of if it's on Switch or etc; ) worries me.

SSB3DS/U has 58 characters. It took a ridiculously long time to develop, even longer to balance and a few of the characters didn't even come until post-launch. This isn't even considering all of the other modes/custom moves/etc;

How are they going to one-up that for a sequel in a realistic amount of time/development cost? Do they have to? There's no doubt the characters are one, if not the main selling point(s) for Smash. If they try to one-up it, how could we expect characters to be as unique, or as balanced as Sm4sh is? If they don't, it's likely a lot of fan-favorites will be cut in favor of different characters, and etc;

I don't want them to nor do I think they ever would, but I've also seen suggestions of rebooting the franchise or slimming it down to rebalance or redo it in a different and/or more streamlined fashion.

Look at the response to MvC from a casual audience and now think of how Smash's would react to these kinds of things. I guess I kind of rambled on here and don't really know what my point is, likely mostly nonsense but I suppose this serves as more of a basis for my question to Smash 5:

Where do they go from here?
I don't see why nobody wants to consider reusing assets. ArcSys does it and Tekken still does iirc yet they still like fine. Smash 4 has the perfect art style for the franchise so you might aswell save all that hard work
 
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