Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Diddy Kong]

Manly as always, spot on what am feeling about Smash exactly.

Lots of stuff is braindead and indeed, there's a lot of disfunctional movesets. Even amongst good characters as Sheik and Diddy, and that's honestly not good in design wise.

It doesn't matter if Smash has items, moving playform stages, huge random stuff that involves battles, in any fighting game it should be skill that decides the overall outcome in 'fair' matches.

There's ridiculous stuff as Cloud's Limit Break, Diddy's bananas, Sheik's Needles, but there's also disfunctional stuff as DK's Headbut, Yoshi's Egg Roll, Zelda's Phantom Slash... All of that.

Sword characters indeed are getting slate with their visuals. And even Corrin and Cloud where made after Marth and Ike respectively.

What I'd like to see is more ground to air combo variety. Like being able to cancel two jabs into an aerial and follow up with something grounded. Stuff like that just adds to the debt of gameplay. And is entirely possible in Smash. I want more moves functioning like Link's Forward Smash for example (I'm literally crying out for this for years...). And I think a character as Little Mac has this sort of design, but is completely limited by his 'lol weak air game' forced mechanic.

What I want is characters as strong on the ground as Little Mac and as dominating in the air as Diddy and Sheik. Options is what make a fighting game.

 

[Deleted member]

I just don't think they'd completely cut out Awakening's cast when it revitalized the series, and Robin acting as the first Fire Emblem character to use magic, which in itself is a pretty big deal that even Sakurai talked a lot about. I definitely don't think we'd go back to a roster of only swordlocked fighters like in Brawl.

Which is why I said "maybe.' I honestly can't say for sure either way. But I wouldn't personally bet on him coming back necessarily. The FE roster will likely be the one to see the most cuts, and the priority with Smash above all else is to create a fun game, not a catalog of Nintendo's history. Characters who have some degree of historical importance for a franchise can always get made into Assist Trophies and the like.

As far as moveset variety. Swords are Swords, they're merely a tool to reflect how hitboxes connect. You have a character with a stick, club or axe, and they could be given the exact same moveset as a sword character. What really matters overall is fighting style, which is why an argument for a Katana using samurai character totally circumvents the complaint of "too many sword using FE lords" because while the tool is the same, the fighting style is totally different. This is the reason why Lances are coveted as an archetype to get covered, because lances by their very nature have a very different fighting style to swords and axes (look at Mai in Blazblue for example).

Robin at the end of the day, is still a battlemage. He does use a sword for part of his moveset. So... what if the next FE lord is a full on Mage like Tharja, or a Lance user like Ephraim? Why wouldn't someone like this make a meaningful replacement for the likes of Robin?

Overall there are too many variables for me to accurately predict whether he would or wouldn't come back. But I certainly wouldn't be 100% sure he'd be a shoe-in. Just going off his overall popularity, and the size of the FE roster which is likely to get many cuts. Something like prominence in or importance in a franchise doesn't protect him when ATs were invented for that very reason, and the number 1 priority in a fighting game roster is to be appealing (ergo popular picks), and fun.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Currently, I just want Diddy Kong to return first and then I'll adjust my wants accordingly. With all the hate he's got during Smash 4's cycle, they might just decide to cut him because they deem him 'not popular enough'. In which case, I'll release my hatred upon the internet, with full force.

 

[Deleted member]

Currently, I just want Diddy Kong to return first and then I'll adjust my wants accordingly. With all the hate he's got during Smash 4's cycle, they might just decide to cut him because they deem him 'not popular enough'. In which case, I'll release my hatred upon the internet, with full force.

Diddy is pretty much guaranteed. I don't see him going anywhere and neither do most people among the community.
But I can see where you're coming from. I'm somewhat paranoid that they'll cut Ness because he's "Irrelevant". I don't think that's a real reason myself, but you never know.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Diddy Kong isnt going anywhere lol.

If meta knight didnt get cut after Brawl, there is no logical reason to think a character as popular as Diddy would.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I will have to say that something is not right if a Final Smash is worse than any of the standard fighter's other moves. You work so hard to get the Smash Ball as Bowser, only to find out that Giga Bowser is practically inferior to a Bowser who picks up a Super Mushroom.

If the motto is bigger hits harder, then Giga Bowser really needs to pack a greater punch, because he pretty much outsizes everyone else, even if they pick up Super Mushrooms.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I doubt they would cut diddy.

Wolf is part of a long clone army despite being more unique than the others for clone status.

Pichu was a joke character Dan status.

Ice Climbers had actual problems with the game engine, more so lag with 3DS and possibly 8 player smash.

Pokémon Trainer just stopped the gimmick and went with Zard alone.

There was a reason, at least a good one for past cuts. Diddy doesn’t seem to into any of these.

 

[AEMehr]

I agree only because you said Donkey Kong

There's also Lucina who I feel gets more promotional appearances than both Chrom and Robin.

What am getting at is that Lucina is a 100 times easier to include, and she's more popular than Robin. Plus she's from Awakening. I like playing as Robin more as well, but outside of a bad mechanic of limited uses of weaponary and tomes -which is an outdated mechanic in FE now I might add- there's not much what Robin adds.

Outside of magic, which can be covered by adding Celica, then add Alm as a sort of Ike semi-clone? There's much that makes them relatable, make Alm a little faster perhaps and since he also as (a) Falchion, give him tipper mechanics like Marth.

That's what I would personally do tho.

Marth
Ike
Roy
Lucina / Chrom
Alm
Celica

No Robin or Corrin.

I don't understand this logic. What defines Robin as a unique character is the inventory system, to add Celica in place to fit a niche is a terrible reason to remove and add a character. Especially since they don't even do the same things.

If they still use Robin in games today, and will probably continue to use him as a frontliner of the series, why remove him? Especially if there's nothing he does that would prevent Celica from theoretically joining the ranks. Even then, we already know a new mainline Fire Emblem title is in development for Nintendo Switch. It may already be too late for Alm and Celica if the Smash and FE Switch Teams are discussing the possibility of adding a character from the new title.

Adding Chrom or Alm is a little absurd too since the reason Chrom was pushed over in the first place was because he was imagined to play too much between Marth and Ike. Alm, whose build is definitely more Marth than Ike, would certainly be looked over for similar issues.

This isn't even mentioning Corrin, female Corrin is like the most fanart'd design I've seen forever lol. People love her, and her mix of Manakete / Swordplay also makes the character very interesting and unique. No other character can really do what she can.

Robin and Corrin have grown to become bigger than just characters to advertise new games, they evidently grew in popularity because of their roles in their new games. It's going to be a lot harder to cut them than just saying "they're old news".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I doubt they would cut diddy.

Wolf is part of a long clone army despite being more unique than the others for clone status.

Pichu was a joke character Dan status.

Ice Climbers had actual problems with the game engine, more so lag with 3DS and possibly 8 player smash.

Pokémon Trainer just stopped the gimmick and went with Zard alone.

There was a reason, at least a good one for past cuts. Diddy doesn’t seem to into any of these.

Trainer falls under the same category as IC's. 3DS issues. Same reason they removed all character transformations and split the others duos.

 

[APC99]

Fire Emblem has some unique characters, and I'd love to see them bring Lyn and Celica into Smash because of their popularity and potential. However, I do think that I'd prefer seeing characters from other franchises before another Fire Emblem character, simply for variety's sake. Yet, you can't ignore:

• Fire Emblem is incredibly popular right now, especially after the release of Heroes
• Lyn and Celica have both become incredibly popular FE characters, right alongside the Smash heroes
• Lyn works as a quick-moving, light-on-her-feet rushdown, and Celica being a better version of Pichu's gimmick w/ lots of magic work incredibly well within the cast of Smash
• More girls are always good from a diversity standpoint

Yeah, even as someone who hasn't played Fire Emblem, I understand the appeal of Lyn and Celica as Smash fighters.

Currently, I just want Diddy Kong to return first and then I'll adjust my wants accordingly. With all the hate he's got during Smash 4's cycle, they might just decide to cut him because they deem him 'not popular enough'. In which case, I'll release my hatred upon the internet, with full force.

>Cutting a character due to being broken in meta and getting hate for it

Man, it sucks not having spacies in Brawl, or Meta Knight in Wii U... oh wait.

If they cut Diddy Kong, I will videotape myself doing all of his taunts, in nothing but my underwear, a t-shirt and a baseball cap, in the middle of campus. With a banana in my mouth. He's one of two DKC characters, a subdivision of their mascot franchise, has his own unique playstyle, and is top tier in both games he's been in. There is literally no feasible reason to cut Diddy unless they are trimming down the roster to around Melee's size, even then that's a stretch.

 

[Deleted member]

Wolf is part of a long clone army despite being more unique than the others for clone status.

For the sixty nine bajillionth time...
Wolf. is not. a clone.

 

[Bowserlick]

Star Fox could benefit from a character that does not leech off the existing special move pattern established by Fox. Andross (with a body) comes to mind.

 

[Deleted member]

Star Fox could benefit from a character that does not leech off the existing special move pattern established by Fox. Andross (with a body) comes to mind.

Changing Wolf's specials is a possibility you know.
That's literally the only thing he copies from Fox, and even then they're not the exact same.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

For the sixty nine bajillionth time...
Wolf. is not. a clone.

He kind of is. You see, when he was created, Sakurai actually retooled Fox's moves onto him. Which is more or less what a clone always was, having the same moveset. One thing to remember is that there's more than one type of clone. Some are the exact same moveset with different properties, others are the same animations with different properties, then you got costumes becoming characters, and of course, some use a portion of their moves to make development time easier. Some can overlap. Wolf and Jigglypuff actually are polar opposites but follow the same design; take a character's set of moves, but not all, and retool them to save development time. This is why she plays similar to Kirby in Smash 64, and this is also why Wolf has pretty much all of Fox's special moves(with unique changes to a degree) and some of his animations(his Dash Attack is the same one as Fox's Up Smash).

I've actually gotten into this debate many times before. Notably, Wolf is one of my favorite Brawl additions. However, what I didn't realize is that Sakurai does clones in multiple ways. There is no "set" definition.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Pichu was a joke character Dan status.

Joke characters are a thing in a good amount of fighting titles though. While Pichu may be expendable, at least there are good reasons why other joke characters, such as Hercule and Dan Hibiki, are still seen in their respective franchises.

Ironically, not all joke characters are terrible as a whole, since in Melee, Pichu is actually better than Bowser.

 

[TeddyBearYoshi]

Cutting Diddy Kong would be like cutting Donkey Kong's Luigi. Couldn't happen.

I do also believe that Alph being the same as Olimar wouldn't be a problem. Like it was said, the Pikmin are the major difference. If Olimar didn't get the flying Pikmin but instead had a different recovery, while Alph had the flying and rock Pikmin it could be enough of a difference for me (other than the inevitable stat differences between the base characters.) The KopPad is also unique to Alph's group, although in gameplay I'm not sure it would work in any form of a move.

I've seen the "Not a clone! Is a clone." argument so often now I wonder where it could even go. In my eyes; Wolf, Lucas, and even Luigi are clones. Sure, they may have differences in gameplay but their base characters are based off of another and are tweaked. Sure, you can do like Luigi and make them less similar, but aside from one (side) special (two if you count down-special, but since that's still present in Dr. Mario I don't count it), every single move remains as a tweaked version of Mario's to where it results in a different playstyle completely, but you can still see that the moves themselves remain Mario-like.

Does it even matter if someone is a clone though? Unless they are as similar to Dark Pit to Pit is in Sm4sh (which I consider an exception to the rule) or as unfaithful as Ganondorf they are still just more, 'easily'-added characters for variety. I will always welcome more clones. Even Dark Pit ones.

 

[Delzethin]

It's worth mentioning that there's a distinct difference between full clones (nearly entire moveset is identical, just with a few different traits and stats) and semi-clones (derived from another character, but with a handful of unique moves and abilities). Semi-clones have been planned in the past, while full clones have been added near the end of development, either to pad out the roster (in Melee) or add a little extra despite not having enough time to make a full character (in 4). This is why it's really difficult to predict clones, because it depends entirely on the circumstances.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

For the sixty nine bajillionth time...
Wolf. is not. a clone.

As someone who is/was one of the biggest Wolf advocates on here. Yes, he is. Clone=/=bad.

Dunno why everyone sees "clone" as a bad word nowadays.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Dunno why everyone sees "clone" as a bad word nowadays.

Because every chatacter needs to be 100% unique, no other game has clones, and Dark Pit stole muh slot


Note: they don't, yes they do, and he didnt.

 

[Deleted member]

As someone who is/was one of the biggest Wolf advocates on here. Yes, he is. Clone=/=bad.

Dunno why everyone sees "clone" as a bad word nowadays.

I don't think clones are bad, but I thought Wolf had a more original moveset?

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I don't think clones are bad, but I thought Wolf had a more original moveset?

He did. He stood out compared to a lot of other clones. But that doesn't mean he wasn't one. All of his specials are derivative of Fox and to that extent Falco whom I feel is more of a clone to Fox than Wolf, but that's not the point. Yeah, his normals are rather unique but they're not anything too tremendous. Nothing that would make him a non-clone.

Don't get me wrong, I hate when people use the excuse that Wolf shouldn't return because he was "only a clone". It bugs the hell out of me, especially after Toon Link, Lucas, and Roy are all in the game again. But he is a clone and it's just something that we gotta deal with.

 

[Deleted member]

He did. He stood out compared to a lot of other clones. But that doesn't mean he wasn't one. All of his specials are derivative of Fox and to that extent Falco whom I feel is more of a clone to Fox than Wolf, but that's not the point. Yeah, his normals are rather unique but they're not anything too tremendous. Nothing that would make him a non-clone.

Don't get me wrong, I hate when people use the excuse that Wolf shouldn't return because he was "only a clone". It bugs the hell out of me, especially after Toon Link, Lucas, and Roy are all in the game again. But he is a clone and it's just something that we gotta deal with.

Oh, that makes sense. I don't mind that too much since Lucas (a semi-clone) is one of my favorite characters.
I feel like an idiot though. I was so sure he's not a clone and was somewhat aggressive towards the other user, only to be proven wrong. That's embarassing, to say the least.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

ITT: People not remembering the term semi-clone

 

[Deleted member]

ITT: People not remembering the term semi-clone

Thank you.
I wish people used the term more often.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

ITT: People not remembering the term semi-clone

It doesn't make that much of a difference though does it? A semi-clone is still a clone. It's there in the name itself. The term semi-clone is only used to differ clones from other clones.

For instance Roy is absolutely a clone of Marth but he's not as much of one as Lucina is thus you would use semi-clone to describe Roy and distance him and his play style from Lucina. It doesn't detract from the fact that characters are derived from other characters. It's just way of saying "Oh he's still a clone. Just he's kinda different." Again, not that that's a bad thing at all, it's just unneeded convolution.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It doesn't make that much of a difference though does it? A semi-clone is still a clone. It's there in the name itself. The term semi-clone is only used to differ clones from other clones.

For instance Roy is absolutely a clone of Marth but he's not as much of one as Lucina is thus you would use semi-clone to describe Roy and distance him and his play style from Lucina. It doesn't detract from the fact that characters are derived from other characters. It's just way of saying "Oh he's still a clone. Just he's kinda different." Again, not that that's a bad thing at all, it's just unneeded convolution.

It does make a big difference, which explains the stigma against the term clone

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It does make a big difference, which explains the stigma against the term clone

I'd have to be inclined to disagree with you there. People have a problem with any type of clone in any sort of capacity, whether they be clone or semi-clone. The amount of people who want to see Roy gone is actually surprising to me, same with people saying that Wolf should stay gone, not even mentioning Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, or the outcry to totally redefine Ganondorf (which I do think is a potential good idea). There are few clones that don't get the hate, for lack of better word, that those do. Toon Link, Falco, and Luigi are basically it and even Falco has been hit with the same thing since he got in over Wolf. Even Lucas was met with concern and outright hate by many during Brawl out of fear that Ness was being replaced.

I'm digressing hard here but my point is that people are going to have a stigma with clones no matter what term you use. Semi-clone doesn't shift it any. It just tries to prove that one character should stay over another due to a slightly more unique moveset. It's just a tool for speculation to use to try and rebuke those who do hate clones and that's really all it is.

 

[UserKev]

Ahh, Lyn. Good ol' Lyn. I used to be a heavy supporter of her. Glad I got over it though.

The less characters you support, the less stress.

This is a new rule for me.

 

[Opossum]

Ahh, Lyn. Good ol' Lyn. I used to be a heavy supporter of her. Glad I got over it though.

The less characters you support, the less stress.

This is a new rule for me.

I mean, it sounds cynical I suppose, but I agree. Compared to Brawl and Smash 4, there are very few characters I'm actively hoping get in, and most of them are no-hopers. It's honestly less stressful to just enjoy the ride, you know?

 

[APC99]

I think there's a major difference in liking a character, and supporting a character.

I'm personally done speculating on who'd be chosen. After Smash 4, I just don't think it's worth it anymore to argue about what characters are added or which ones will be cut. Eventually, it just becomes an echo chamber of the same few character concepts, and then it's not what they could bring to the fight that makes them appealing, it's what they represent or how "likely" they are.

Look at pre-E3 2013, before the game was even announced. The same few characters ALWAYS came up. K. Rool, Ridley, Krystal, Chrom, Waddle Dee, Takamaru, a Gen V Pokemon... Try suggesting Cloud, Wii Fit Trainer, Ryu and Duck Hunt back then. There was SOME people who thought of it (even moreso with Duck Hunt), but it was NEVER likely that such obscure characters would get in over "deserving" characters like K. Rool or Ridley...

The only characters who I think were part of that "definitely in the game, no feasible way they aren't" were characters like Mega Man, Little Mac, and Palutena. Even then, people didn't really go out of their way to show WHY Palutena was a good choice, or talk about her moveset potential, it was always something like "Of course Sakurai would put her in, she's a big character in his latest game!"

I might sound like I'm being harsh on speculators (I kind of am), but it comes from personal experience. I didn't expect characters like the aforementioned Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, Ryu, Cloud, Robin, Bayonetta, Bowser Jr, Rosalina... Most of the roster was a surprise to me (except for Pac-Man, I called that SO hard). I'm more interested in what the characters could bring to a gameplay perspective than what the CSS looks like.

I just feel like supporting something to "fill a spot" or "represent a series better" is the wrong way of thinking about it. The character and their playstyle should just come together naturally, it shouldn't be a case of retrofitting all of their past appearances into a jumbled movelist of references. Skull Kid? Trap-based glass cannon mage with more offensive skills. Ashley? Spellcaster who curses foes to make it easier for her to attack. Celica? Powerful spells w/ recoil and a focus on spacial awareness and mindgames. All of them fulfill the same "archetype" of a magic-based trapper, but with different execution. And I made all of that up on the fly.

I'd have to be inclined to disagree with you there. People have a problem with any type of clone in any sort of capacity, whether they be clone or semi-clone. The amount of people who want to see Roy gone is actually surprising to me, same with people saying that Wolf should stay gone, not even mentioning Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, or the outcry to totally redefine Ganondorf (which I do think is a potential good idea). There are few clones that don't get the hate, for lack of better word, that those do. Toon Link, Falco, and Luigi are basically it and even Falco has been hit with the same thing since he got in over Wolf. Even Lucas was met with concern and outright hate by many during Brawl out of fear that Ness was being replaced.

I'm digressing hard here but my point is that people are going to have a stigma with clones no matter what term you use. Semi-clone doesn't shift it any. It just tries to prove that one character should stay over another due to a slightly more unique moveset. It's just a tool for speculation to use to try and rebuke those who do hate clones and that's really all it is.

I agree, clones / semi-clones aren't necessarily a bad thing. Having alternate ways to play a character is a good way. You like Marth, but don't like the spacing required to constantly land tipper? There's Roy, which allows you to play more in-your-face offensive with the hilt hitbox. Or, play Lucina and feel free to just focus on the attacks without focusing on sweetspots or sourspots. The only times I think a clone is unnecessary is when they fulfill the exact same purpose with no real differences and can be played interchangeably without needing to change how you play, like Pit / Dark Pit. And with that, I just want some more variety in Pittoo's moves to make him a "plays rough / in-your-face" character compared to Pit's all-around style. I also think Ganondorf should get some new moves, but I'd rather see custom moves expanded so that Ganon players can choose if they want the "Falcondorf" moves or some more magic-based skills like a hover / dark shockwave / Dead Man's Volley.

 

[KniteBlargh]

I mean, it sounds cynical I suppose, but I agree. Compared to Brawl and Smash 4, there are very few characters I'm actively hoping get in, and most of them are no-hopers. It's honestly less stressful to just enjoy the ride, you know?

How dare you imply Muddy Mole has no hope! He's a famous figure in video gaming history worldwide, and one of the most desired newcomers! Right guys? RIGHT?! Oh...

To be honest, I didn't do much in the way of speculating during the development of Smash 4. An Animal Crossing newcomer seemed likely to me, but Villager was revealed so early on, that after that point, the only thing I really stressed out about at all was whether Jigglypuff would be returning or not (I don't know why the character wouldn't, but at the time, I was seeing so many "Cut Jigglypuff!" comments, I started to feel a little worried...), that is, until DLC became a thing. Then I was considering "Which veterans could come back?", "Will there be newcomers?", "Will Sakurai ever get some rest?", and so on. That was probably the bumpiest ride for me as far as speculating goes. I'm back to not really knowing what to expect, which direction the series will take next, and kind of just enjoying the ride, as you say, while enjoying a very good game. Mind you, I try not to think too much about cuts; don't like them, so not thinking about them does some good for my mental health. LOL

As far as clones and semi-clones go... I mean, yeah, it'd be great if everyone were unique, but seeing as there are similarities even between non-clones at times, I don't really find them to be an issue; I'd rather have them than not, I guess. I enjoy playing Dr. Mario, but don't find Mario to be quite as fun, for example. Even if it mostly comes down to a slight variation in personality, a clone/semi-clone will have a fan base, and it almost feels like an extra little gift the team slipped in for us even though they may have been short on time. It's cool that dedicated Pit/Dark Pit mains have an alternate choice that doesn't deviate too much from the one they prefer, so they can feel a bit freer about playing two characters without messing up their game. On the other hand, if someone enjoys a clone/semi-clone, but wants a change, there are so many unique characters to choose from still, just like there would be otherwise. Also, as far as competitive play goes, it's not a burden learning the match-up against a clone, because... Well, it often doesn't deviate too much from fighting the character on which they were based (unless we're talking Luigi semi-clone status, but again, it's cool that Luigi has become quite different from Mario over time).

 

[Deleted member]

So hear me out on this...

What if 4 is the LAST Smash Bros game we'll see, at least for a long time?

Reading through some of the interviews with Sakurai, he certainly seems like this is it, and when you look back the DLC for 4, he made an effort to point out just how much content he crammed into the game. 4 really seems like the Swan Song for the series, they really went all out with it.

And you might say, "but Manly, $$$$$, as long as Smash keeps selling, they'll keep making it, it's one of their flagship franchises!"

And to that I argue, "Is that really the case?" It's not uncommon for Nintendo IP to fall off the wayside from time to time after all, only to be awakened some time after being dormant. Sure, the Switch might get a Smash game, but there's no reason that can't simply be a port of 4 with added content. In fact, I'm almost convinced that's what's gonna happen given how the Switch lineup seems to be set up. And from there on... what's stopping Smash from simply being put aside for a decade , while Nintendo pushes IP, and focuses on keeping the Switch afloat?

Consider Sakurai's health issues, dude's literally worked himself toward having serious health problems. You can only keep doing this to a man for so long, and overall, he seemed pretty adamant on not returning for a 5th time overall:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._bros_for_wii_u_may_be_his_last_in_the_series

How many other people are willing to work as hard as he? To cram as much as stuff into the game to please his fans to the degree he did? This, imo, is all the more reason why I'm very confident the next game will undoubtedly be a Deluxe port of 4 for the Switch, followed by a dormant period of the series for a while for a long time, before it's picked up again, and potentially rebooted a decade later under a new director.

To me, this is just what makes the most sense. Sakurai this time around really did seem to do everything he could to please fans in an attempt to satisfy people to the best of his ability with the game, in order to really make it his last bout with this series.

 

[Deleted member]

So hear me out on this...

What if 4 is the LAST Smash Bros game we'll see, at least for a long time?

Reading through some of the interviews with Sakurai, he certainly seems like this is it, and when you look back the DLC for 4, he made an effort to point out just how much content he crammed into the game. 4 really seems like the Swan Song for the series, they really went all out with it.

And you might say, "but Manly, $$$$$, as long as Smash keeps selling, they'll keep making it, it's one of their flagship franchises!"

And to that I argue, "Is that really the case?" It's not uncommon for Nintendo IP to fall off the wayside from time to time after all, only to be awakened some time after being dormant. Sure, the Switch might get a Smash game, but there's no reason that can't simply be a port of 4 with added content. In fact, I'm almost convinced that's what's gonna happen given how the Switch lineup seems to be set up. And from there on... what's stopping Smash from simply being put aside for a decade , while Nintendo pushes IP, and focuses on keeping the Switch afloat?

Consider Sakurai's health issues, dude's literally worked himself toward having serious health problems. You can only keep doing this to a man for so long, and overall, he seemed pretty adamant on not returning for a 5th time overall:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._bros_for_wii_u_may_be_his_last_in_the_series

How many other people are willing to work as hard as he? To cram as much as stuff into the game to please his fans to the degree he did? This, imo, is all the more reason why I'm very confident the next game will undoubtedly be a Deluxe port of 4 for the Switch, followed by a dormant period of the series for a while for a long time, before it's picked up again, and potentially rebooted a decade later under a new director.

To me, this is just what makes the most sense. Sakurai this time around really did seem to do everything he could to please fans in an attempt to satisfy people to the best of his ability with the game, in order to really make it his last bout with this series.

You must be fun at parties.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So hear me out on this...

What if 4 is the LAST Smash Bros game we'll see, at least for a long time?

Reading through some of the interviews with Sakurai, he certainly seems like this is it, and when you look back the DLC for 4, he made an effort to point out just how much content he crammed into the game. 4 really seems like the Swan Song for the series, they really went all out with it.

And you might say, "but Manly, $$$$$, as long as Smash keeps selling, they'll keep making it, it's one of their flagship franchises!"

And to that I argue, "Is that really the case?" It's not uncommon for Nintendo IP to fall off the wayside from time to time after all, only to be awakened some time after being dormant. Sure, the Switch might get a Smash game, but there's no reason that can't simply be a port of 4 with added content. In fact, I'm almost convinced that's what's gonna happen given how the Switch lineup seems to be set up. And from there on... what's stopping Smash from simply being put aside for a decade , while Nintendo pushes IP, and focuses on keeping the Switch afloat?

Consider Sakurai's health issues, dude's literally worked himself toward having serious health problems. You can only keep doing this to a man for so long, and overall, he seemed pretty adamant on not returning for a 5th time overall:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._bros_for_wii_u_may_be_his_last_in_the_series

How many other people are willing to work as hard as he? To cram as much as stuff into the game to please his fans to the degree he did? This, imo, is all the more reason why I'm very confident the next game will undoubtedly be a Deluxe port of 4 for the Switch, followed by a dormant period of the series for a while for a long time, before it's picked up again, and potentially rebooted a decade later under a new director.

To me, this is just what makes the most sense. Sakurai this time around really did seem to do everything he could to please fans in an attempt to satisfy people to the best of his ability with the game, in order to really make it his last bout with this series.

10 PM NEWS: SPIRIT UNAWARE THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DIRECTOR FOR VIDEO GAMES AND THEY CAN EASILY BE REPLACED

 

[Ura]

So hear me out on this...

What if 4 is the LAST Smash Bros game we'll see, at least for a long time?

Reading through some of the interviews with Sakurai, he certainly seems like this is it, and when you look back the DLC for 4, he made an effort to point out just how much content he crammed into the game. 4 really seems like the Swan Song for the series, they really went all out with it.

And you might say, "but Manly, $$$$$, as long as Smash keeps selling, they'll keep making it, it's one of their flagship franchises!"

And to that I argue, "Is that really the case?" It's not uncommon for Nintendo IP to fall off the wayside from time to time after all, only to be awakened some time after being dormant. Sure, the Switch might get a Smash game, but there's no reason that can't simply be a port of 4 with added content. In fact, I'm almost convinced that's what's gonna happen given how the Switch lineup seems to be set up. And from there on... what's stopping Smash from simply being put aside for a decade , while Nintendo pushes IP, and focuses on keeping the Switch afloat?

Consider Sakurai's health issues, dude's literally worked himself toward having serious health problems. You can only keep doing this to a man for so long, and overall, he seemed pretty adamant on not returning for a 5th time overall:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._bros_for_wii_u_may_be_his_last_in_the_series

How many other people are willing to work as hard as he? To cram as much as stuff into the game to please his fans to the degree he did? This, imo, is all the more reason why I'm very confident the next game will undoubtedly be a Deluxe port of 4 for the Switch, followed by a dormant period of the series for a while for a long time, before it's picked up again, and potentially rebooted a decade later under a new director.

To me, this is just what makes the most sense. Sakurai this time around really did seem to do everything he could to please fans in an attempt to satisfy people to the best of his ability with the game, in order to really make it his last bout with this series.

Smash Bros is one of those series that will never take a hiatus for any console generation. The others being Mario Kart, Pokemon, Splatoon, a mainline Mario game, and a mainline Zelda game.

Even if there's no new Smash Bros game for the Switch, they'll still port Smash 4 to that console and possibly do something where they add new characters, stages, etc to the game every year. I can't imagine they would just port vanilla Smash 4 to the Switch and call it a day. With or without Sakurai.

 

[Deleted member]

So hear me out on this...

What if 4 is the LAST Smash Bros game we'll see, at least for a long time?

Reading through some of the interviews with Sakurai, he certainly seems like this is it, and when you look back the DLC for 4, he made an effort to point out just how much content he crammed into the game. 4 really seems like the Swan Song for the series, they really went all out with it.

And you might say, "but Manly, $$$$$, as long as Smash keeps selling, they'll keep making it, it's one of their flagship franchises!"

And to that I argue, "Is that really the case?" It's not uncommon for Nintendo IP to fall off the wayside from time to time after all, only to be awakened some time after being dormant. Sure, the Switch might get a Smash game, but there's no reason that can't simply be a port of 4 with added content. In fact, I'm almost convinced that's what's gonna happen given how the Switch lineup seems to be set up. And from there on... what's stopping Smash from simply being put aside for a decade , while Nintendo pushes IP, and focuses on keeping the Switch afloat?

Consider Sakurai's health issues, dude's literally worked himself toward having serious health problems. You can only keep doing this to a man for so long, and overall, he seemed pretty adamant on not returning for a 5th time overall:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20..._bros_for_wii_u_may_be_his_last_in_the_series

How many other people are willing to work as hard as he? To cram as much as stuff into the game to please his fans to the degree he did? This, imo, is all the more reason why I'm very confident the next game will undoubtedly be a Deluxe port of 4 for the Switch, followed by a dormant period of the series for a while for a long time, before it's picked up again, and potentially rebooted a decade later under a new director.

To me, this is just what makes the most sense. Sakurai this time around really did seem to do everything he could to please fans in an attempt to satisfy people to the best of his ability with the game, in order to really make it his last bout with this series.

Honestly, I actually agree with this premise except for the decade thing.
Smash has too much of an eSports presence for a full decade to pass without a new release from the Big N being in production.

I feel the age of Sakurai-styled Smash titles jam-packed with vast amounts of content is over, while a new age of smaller-scale games is on the rise.

 

[Diddy Kong]

10 PM NEWS: SPIRIT UNAWARE THERE IS MORE THAN ONE DIRECTOR FOR VIDEO GAMES AND THEY CAN EASILY BE REPLACED

Smash has been carried by mostly Sakurai though. There's a lot he did for the franchise and it's development. So if he's gone, I say Smash 4 Switch is definitely going to happen...

I mean, just check the names. Smash FOR 3DS, Smash FOR WII U... The name alone is pretty much already a hint towards Smash FOR Switch...

I think pretty much all discussion is void cause am at least 75% sure it's gonna be a Deluxe port

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, I actually agree with this premise except for the decade thing.
Smash has too much of an eSports presence for a full decade to pass without a new release from the Big N being in production.

I feel the age of Sakurai-styled Smash titles jam-packed with vast amounts of content is over, while a new age of smaller-scale games is on the rise.

Yeah, but stability is what's best for eSports. If anything, a deluxe port, and maintaining that for the entire Switch's lifespan, and then some, is what would be ideal for eSports in all honesty. Think about it, Melee is still alive. Starcraft Brood War basically WAS eSports for well over a decade. And LoL really hasn't gotten any new version of the game, just more added content. If anything, not releasing any new games for a while after the Switch port would really be beneficial for eSports more than anything else.

Smash has been carried by mostly Sakurai though. There's a lot he did for the franchise and it's development. So if he's gone, I say Smash 4 Switch is definitely going to happen...

I mean, just check the names. Smash FOR 3DS, Smash FOR WII U... The name alone is pretty much already a hint towards Smash FOR Switch...

I think pretty much all discussion is void cause am at least 75% sure it's gonna be a Deluxe port

Exactly.

In the case of Melee he put his heart and soul into it, that was Sakurai at his peak, and Iwata had to lure him out of the office to eat and sleep or he would have worked himself to actual death.

He didn't want to make Brawl, Nintendo were going to do it without him but couldn't come up with jack, Iwata approached Sakurai and said "We are making a new Smash for Wii. If you don't want to participate, I'm just gonna make Smash Melee Wii with netplay but NO new characters or stages." (notice this was not about profits for nintendo). Sakurai said as daunting as it was, he didn't think it would be "fair to fans" to have an unaltered re-release on Wii, and signed on for Brawl.

Smash4 was a completely different thing from the last two because he had limitless time and budget now. He didn't have to cut corners, he didn't have to work fast or efficiently. Melee's speed and fluidity was to assist in fast playtesting, and the game became fast as a result. Smash4 there was zero pressure, the only daunting part was how massive the roster had gotten. And when he said "Smash4 is my last game", in that context he explained that the roster was just flat out way too big to go any further, it was too much work to balance a roster of that size and the guy had bone/wrist problems. To make Smash4, Nintendo had to do a huge collaboration with Namco for playtesting. They kept the dev teams together for several months longer than they were supposed to, just to do all the unplanned DLC + the ballot to make people shut up about roster ****.

That's literally the dream team, you can't get any better than that. Even some of the old devs from HAL Labs came aboard to help with 4, there's no way they're not gonna milk that hard work with a Switch port.

I'm 100% confident we'll be seeing a Switch port with perhaps some added characters, and from there, the series will be left alone till whatever happens AFTER the Switch, maybe even more. Which could wind up being around a decade if you really think about it. It all really depends on how the Switch does, what Nintendo has planned after it, as well as the state of the industry after 2020, anything goes in that timespan really, especially when you account for the growth of technology, and how this will affect the gaming industry.

After all that, and with Iwata gone, I'm confident Sakurai WON'T come back for a 5th game though. With Brawl, which he didn't even wanna make, he went in because he wanted to satisfy the fans, as he felt more could be done, and with 4, he was given ample dev time and a TON of resources. That's not gonna happen again I don't think. Meaning they'll probably wait a while, before handing off Smash to a 2nd party dev like they did with Retro and Metroid, or a joint team with Namco and some Ninty devs under a new director who'd be willing to take the helm. It'll be a while though, I'm sure. And under which, it'll probably be rebooted, or something along those lines.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Smash has been carried by mostly Sakurai though. There's a lot he did for the franchise and it's development. So if he's gone, I say Smash 4 Switch is definitely going to happen...

I mean, just check the names. Smash FOR 3DS, Smash FOR WII U... The name alone is pretty much already a hint towards Smash FOR Switch...

I think pretty much all discussion is void cause am at least 75% sure it's gonna be a Deluxe port

He did a lot, that much is undeniable. You know what else is undeniable? That Nintendo can and will just get a new director. Sakurai didn't even know Brawl existed until it got announced by Nintendo to the public iirc

 

[Deleted member]

He did a lot, that much is undeniable. You know what else is undeniable? That Nintendo can and will just get a new director. Sakurai didn't even know Brawl existed until it got announced by Nintendo to the public iirc

Yes, but Brawl was literally gonna be Melee HD with netplay and no new content. Sakurai only signed on because he felt that wouldn't have been fair to the fans.

Smash Bros is one of those series that will never take a hiatus for any console generation. The others being Mario Kart, Pokemon, Splatoon, a mainline Mario game, and a mainline Zelda game.

Even if there's no new Smash Bros game for the Switch, they'll still port Smash 4 to that console and possibly do something where they add new characters, stages, etc to the game every year. I can't imagine they would just port vanilla Smash 4 to the Switch and call it a day. With or without Sakurai.

Well, that's what I'm saying. It'll be a Deluxe port that combines all the stuff from the WiiU and 3DS games, and adds a couple new things like perhaps a few new stages, and I'd say... 3 new characters, MAX.

Ice Climbers
Inklings (maybe?)
and a Ballot or 3rd Party character to generate hype

It's always best to be modest with your expectations when it comes to this stuff. People thoughts we'd get several ballot characters when that ran, and in the end we only got Bayonetta.

>adding new content every year
No way. Do you have any idea how costly that would be? Not even close. They'll do a Deluxe port with some new stuff, MAYBE some DLC, and that's basically it for the entire Switch lifespan I'd say.