Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DarkFalcon]

How many Ridley themes are we gonna have in this game? His Brawl remix is here for sure. Meta Ridley too, and I heard a new remix in his short character trailer. Plus his potential remix from Other M. That could be 4 at least lol.

 

[KMDP]

Have a thought, the prevailing theory is that we will have +7 newcomers (+10 including the currently revealed ones), right? Because of keeping the original twelve together on the top row?

What if, now hear me out here, we get +11/+12 newcomers? (14/15 including Inkling, Daisy and Ridley)

Make the Character select screen still have the OG12 on top, but either bulge out the middle section (+11 newcomers) or make it look like an inverse, enlarged Melee roster (+12 newcomers).

With that in mind, here's what I think under these parameters:

Spoiler: The list

In franchise order between Ridley and Daisy.

1. Inkling
2. Ridley
3. Dixie Kong
4. King K. Rool
5. Decidueye or Incineroar, but not both.
6. Celica
7. Ashley
8. Isaac
9. Tails
10. Shadow (Wolf-Style Semi-Clone of Sonic)
11. Simon Belmont
12. Sephiroth
13. Daisy (echo of Peach)
14. Ken (echo of Ryu)
15. Bandana Dee (if Sakurai elects to include him) or Elma (if not)

Spoiler: ”Explaining Myself”

Dixie Kong & King K. Rool​

With the release of Returns, Donkey Kong Country seems to be seeing a resurgence, and Nintendo will want to capitalise on that. Not to mention, King K. Rool has a rather big push for him, as we all know.​

Decidueye or Incineroar​

We know that Sakurai reserved a slot for Greninja, and it's possible Sakurai did it again. I can see either Decidueye as a Ranged Fighter, or Incineroar as a Grappler-type Fighter. Ultimately, it would be "who does Sakurai see more potential/uniqueness in?"​

The reason why I say either-or is because, as with Corrin last game, Sakurai has reservations about over-representing a single series. While Pokémon is a pretty big series, Sakurai literally just brought back Ivysaur and Squirtle, but he'd probably want at least one new Pokémon. Unless Game Freak's Gen I push is considered enough marketing this time.​

Celica​

Having just talked about Sakurai not wanting to bloat a single series too much, let's talk about Fire Emblem! Fire Emblem Echoes likely went into production around the same time as Smash Ultimate's plan was being made, so it would be fresh in Sakurai's mind. We know already that he likes Fire Emblem, and between Alm and Celica, the Priestess is less generic (sorry Alm fans )​

Not to mention the fact that Alm and Celica came pre-made (Sakurai would only have to wait for their redesigns to come in, which would happen pretty quick), so... yeah... there's that.​

Ashley​

I have already spoken about Ashley, she's popular in Japan, she has moveset potential, she'd be a unique fighter. So it seems like a given?​

Isaac​

This is just wishful thinking on my part, to be frank. Isaac has so much to give, Sakurai! Camelot too! Whyyyyyyyyy~?​

Tails and Shadow​

If any third party franchise is 'deserving' of multiple new fighters, it's Sonic. Sonic, Tails and Shadow are the three most popular characters in an massively popular franchise. There's a lot of sense in having them both.​

Simon Belmont​

Vergeben strikes again! Okay, but seriously; Castlevania is a popular series associated with the NES; and Simon has potential as a fighter.​

Sephiroth​

A character who would blow people's minds just as much as Cloud himself, and I'm sure Nintendo would want lightning to strike twice. I imagine he would be the last character reveal just before the game is released, like Duck Hunt's reveal last game, only on steroids.​

Bandana Dee or Elma​

Now... this depends on whether Sakurai really has an unbreakable bias in favour of Classic Kirby. This is the character I'd drop for a +11. Elma was unproven at the time of Smash Ultimate's beginning, so that's a factor against her.​

Ken​

As far as Echoes go, you really can't go wrong.​

 

[Opossum]

I'd honestly be super excited to see Swampert playable. He's my favorite of the Hoenn starters, and he has one of my favorite Mega Evolutions.

Though if we're going all out with off-the-wall Hoenn ideas, Shiftry would be amazing. Grass attacks like Leaf Blade and Seed Bomb, tricky and deceptive moves like Fake-Out and Knock Off, and wind-based moves like Whirlwind or Hurricane, letting it have lots of neat windbox shenanigans...there's a lot you can do with a Grass/Dark tengu.

 

[Freduardo]

So like seven or so pages ago someone suggested a koopaling type deal with Simon Belmont where you can play as other whip users/Belmont’s (So Richter as well)

Yeah, I want that.

Also, if you put entei next to a picture of Lillipup’s evolution cycle, he just looks like the next evolution.

 

[Enchess]

I cannot imagine a world where Sephiroth is playable. Especially with that sword.

But if he was, I'd want him to descend upon a member of the roster and kill them upon unlock. That character would be gone forever with no method of reunlocking them. It's just not Sephiroth if he isnt permanently eliminating a playable character.

 

[Opossum]

Fire Emblem Echoes likely went into production around the same time as Smash Ultimate's plan was being made, so it would be fresh in Sakurai's mind. ]

We actually don't even need to speculate on that. Developer interviews confirmed that work on Shadows of Valentia started immediately after Fates released in Japan, so if the roster was decided in December of 2015, it was already well into development.

That (mixed with how close Sakurai is with Intelligent Systems) is the main thing keeping my hopes for Celica from being completely extinguished.

 

[KMDP]

I cannot imagine a world where Sephiroth is playable. Especially with that sword.

But if he was, I'd want him to descend upon a member of the roster and kill them upon unlock. That character would be gone forever with no method of reunlocking them. It's just not Sephiroth if he isnt permanently eliminating a playable character.

The way I imagine Sephiroth is as a slow, floaty, and surprisingly lightweight fighter (hey, like Mewtwo!), with long range, multi-hitting melee capabilities.

Like, despite having a ludicrously long sword, you have to be precise and careful with your attacks, or you'll be locked into attacking with a flurry of slashes and whiffing all of them, leaving you open for counterattacks.

 

[Enchess]

The way I imagine Sephiroth is as a slow, floaty, and surprisingly lightweight fighter (hey, like Mewtwo!), with long range, multi-hitting melee capabilities.

Like, despite having a ludicrously long sword, you have to be precise and careful with your attacks, or you'll be locked into attacking with a flurry of slashes and whiffing all of them, leaving you open for counterattacks.

Yeah, that's how I'd do him too. I more meant that somehow it would be even more jarring for me to see Pichu next to him than it is to see Pichu next to Snake.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I've always thought that 7 unique characters made sense based on the new numbering scheme - that'd put us up to 70 unique characters, plus some number of echoes (I can see maybe two more or so)

Definitely K.Rool and Ashley seem likely based on popularity. With the number of Pokémon and Fire Emblems in now, I don't know how much of a chance of getting another of either would be. I'd hope that Dixie and Tails end up being semi-clones of Diddy and Tails - they'd work as echoes, but it would feel like a cop-out. Isabelle would make a nice Villager echo and she's got the visibility to make it happen. Even without Vergeben, Simon's got a lot going for him in terms of third-parties. And it wouldn't be a speculation roster if I didn't put in a character solely because I like them, however low the chances are, so Dovahkiin because reasons.

It's going to take a while to get news, isn't it. I'm already going crazy from the waiting...

 

[PLATINUM7]

I cannot imagine a world where Sephiroth is playable. Especially with that sword.

But if he was, I'd want him to descend upon a member of the roster and kill them upon unlock. That character would be gone forever with no method of reunlocking them. It's just not Sephiroth if he isnt permanently eliminating a playable character.

We should have Aerith as an assist and when her time ends Sephiroth descends from the sky and impales her.

 

[KMDP]

Yeah, that's how I'd do him too. I more meant that somehow it would be even more jarring for me to see Pichu next to him than it is to see Pichu next to Snake.

We should have Aerith as an assist and when her time ends Sephiroth descends from the sky and impales her.

Sephiroth's Down Aerial: Hell's Gate, has the property of instantly destroying Assist Trophies if it hits.

Naturally, Aerith is an Assist Trophy.

 

[Enchess]

We should have Aerith as an assist and when her time ends Sephiroth descends from the sky and impales her.

Or Sephiroth can be an AT. When summoned, instead of him appearing a black feather appears and slowly descends. When it hits the ground a random player is selected. If they aren't dodging, they get stunned and are helpless as Sephiroth slowly descends and stabs them in the back. Like the Lyn assist, but needlessly dramatic.

 

[KMDP]

Or Sephiroth can be an AT. When summoned, instead of him appearing a black feather appears and slowly descends. When it hits the ground a random player is selected. If they aren't dodging, they get stunned and are helpless as Sephiroth slowly descends and stabs them in the back. Like the Lyn assist, but needlessly dramatic.

I can imagine literally everyone (except the poor, inattentive souls) on the stage dodging at once as the feather hits the floor.

 

[SquashiniKun]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I'll probably squee.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

Unlockable character? Cool.

 

[Zinith]

Did I just miss a slew of people throwing Yoshi's series under the bus in order to make DK's series look good?

 

[Freduardo]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

I wonder how many more characters are like this...

I played a brawl hack with playable Sephiroth....

He was way broken.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Did I just miss a slew of people throwing Yoshi's series under the bus in order to make DK's series look good?

Never me. Kamek is really up there for me and Shy Guy, obviously, would be a fever dream I have.

 

[KMDP]

Did I just miss a slew of people throwing Yoshi's series under the bus in order to make DK's series look good?

I think you did! Don't worry, I didn't engage in such uncouth behaviour.

I wonder how many more characters are like this...

I played a brawl hack with playable Sephiroth....

He was way broken.

Well, the thing about that is that hacks (except Project M) don't have any reason to keep the characters balanced.

 

[SuperSceptile15]

I'd honestly be super excited to see Swampert playable. He's my favorite of the Hoenn starters, and he has one of my favorite Mega Evolutions.

Though if we're going all out with off-the-wall Hoenn ideas, Shiftry would be amazing. Grass attacks like Leaf Blade and Seed Bomb, tricky and deceptive moves like Fake-Out and Knock Off, and wind-based moves like Whirlwind or Hurricane, letting it have lots of neat windbox shenanigans...there's a lot you can do with a Grass/Dark tengu.

Just from reading this alone, I'm reminded of how so many Pokemon would work well in Smash and have so much unique moveset potential. And yet, despite this, there are still people who think there shouldn't be a new Pokemon fighter because "muh too much representashun". Unbelievable.

 

[Ze Diglett]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

Well, naturally, that all depends on who it is.
If it's Geno, I'd get up and toss my chair across the room in excitement.
If it's Waluigi, Sans, or Rabbids, I'd get up and toss my chair across the room in rage.
If it's pretty much anyone else, I'd go "Oh, neat!"

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I'd honestly be super excited to see Swampert playable. He's my favorite of the Hoenn starters, and he has one of my favorite Mega Evolutions.

Though if we're going all out with off-the-wall Hoenn ideas, Shiftry would be amazing. Grass attacks like Leaf Blade and Seed Bomb, tricky and deceptive moves like Fake-Out and Knock Off, and wind-based moves like Whirlwind or Hurricane, letting it have lots of neat windbox shenanigans...there's a lot you can do with a Grass/Dark tengu.

Every time this sort of thing comes up I just want Super Poke Bros more. Can that be the next fan game?

We should have Aerith as an assist and when her time ends Sephiroth descends from the sky and impales her.

Everyone here is missing the secret meta. Sephiroth as a full playable character with an entry animation that works like this:

Spoiler: dieonethousanddeaths

 

[MBRedboy31]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

Technically, Daisy didn’t get a reveal trailer, so...

If you mean something we don’t know about, I’d be forced to consider just how ridiculously unlikely that was, due to the existence of someone, somewhere, breaking the street date and leaking all of the characters.
There’s also the fact that I might not get the game until Christmas that makes it even more impossible.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Fr, Zelda sells a lot, as such Zelda has a lot of fans, those fans want to see characters from said series to be playable. I really fail to see how that's asking a whole lot lmao.

Yea I skipped the Wii U entirely because I was waiting for a new Zelda which never came out. And I’m not alone, a lot of guys did the same. Spoilers Zelda is sort important. I don’t get why people don’t get that.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So the blog just updated (Corrin Fighter of the day) which marks the first Sunday post in the Americas (Monday in Japan). Hoping this means we get extra posts this week!

Also what order are they putting up characters lol

 

[MainJPW]

I'd hope that Dixie and Tails end up being semi-clones of Diddy and Tails - they'd work as echoes, but it would feel like a cop-out.

Tails can't be an echo of Tails Sonic, as he can't do this:

And he's gotta fly high. Dixie's gotta use her hair, too.

 

[Wyoming]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

Ha! So the 4chan leak was right...

 

[KMDP]

Sephiroth Lines

Win Quotes​

"I am the chosen one. I have been chosen to rule this planet."​

"On your knees! I want you to beg for forgiveness!"​

"I will never be a memory."​

Taunts​

"I've thought of wonderful present for you. Shall I give you despair?" (well, I can think of a certain Black and White Teddy Bear who'd love that present)​

 

[Will]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt eventually got reveal trailers. Just not before when the game came out, of course. So if we get another one of those fighters, they'll eventually get a trailer.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

I might try to surprise myself with the unlocks in this game actually if there are any secret fighters. That will require staying off Smashboards for the last month or so though.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

It would depend on who the character is. If it’s someone I want...I’d go “**** YEAH MAH BOI/GURL IS UP IN THIS SMASH SWITCH *****”...if it’s someone I have no interest in then I’ll be like “...ok”

 

[Will]

Oh my God what did he do to Wario's body?

 

[Arcadenik]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

Depends on whoever that character is.

Disappointment if it isn't someone I wanted.

Hype if it's someone I wanted.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Oh my God what did he do to Wario's body?

Sonic decided to take away Wario’s manhood because he literally has nothing down there

 

[Jak_spoon]

Honestly, at least Zelda gets its villain, even if cloned. I'd rather K Rool as a clone of Bowser than not having him at all, even though that would be as unfaithful to his character as Falcon Ganondorf. At least it gets good soundtrack variety and not the same song remixed over and over. At least it gets lot of stages with diversity. At least it gets a lot of assist trophies. Zelda is no where near the most mistreated represented IP in smash. At least Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf all got fairly substantial changes in Ultimate.

If Zelda didn't get a new rep, it would still have better treatment and representation than pretty much every other series with the exception of Mario and Pokemon.

They got changes because they have been bottom teir since their creation.

 

[KMDP]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

"Ooh! I wonder how they'll play?"

 

[Will]

I might try to surprise myself with the unlocks in this game actually if there are any secret fighters. That will require staying off Smashboards for the last month or so though.

What do you mean? You already got spoiled, Sakurai said everyone who wasn't in the Smash 64 roster (either 8 or 12) was unlockables.
Unless you mean how to unlock them, which will probably be kept a secret until Day 1 or 2 when the game comes out.

 

[Murlough]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

Completely dependent on the character.

If it were Mimikyu I'd probably cry a little, then I would go onto discord and tell everyone in my scene they better prepare their posteriors.
If it were Zereora I'd turn off my Switch.

Pretty much everyone else is somewhere between the two.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

YOUR REACTION

If you unlocked a character in Ultimate that didn't get a reveal trailer?

I'd be glad I didn't get spoiled for once.

Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt eventually got reveal trailers. Just not before when the game came out, of course. So if we get another one of those fighters, they'll eventually get a trailer.

Hopefully there will be another trailer like Duck Hunt's, I'm fond of that one.

What do you mean? You already got spoiled, Sakurai said everyone who wasn't in the Smash 64 roster (either 8 or 12) was unlockables.
Unless you mean how to unlock them, which will probably be kept a secret until Day 1 or 2 when the game comes out.

I think Dragon is saying about secret fighters that didn't get revealed.