Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[RileyXY1]

Don't forget that, I don't think SMRPG even came out in Europe!

Expanding on this, Peach's music for the Peach Blossom is a hugely sped-up version of "The Sky/Warp Zone" from Mario Bros. I can imagine Daisy using this in her version if she had it. The song that plays every time Daisy/Fake!Daisy shows up in Super Mario Land, usually before being cut off.

I just looked it up and you're correct, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars never came out in Europe.

 

[DarkFalcon]

If Sakurai somehow incorporates Daisy's annoying voice into her Final Smash, I'll go out and buy all of the Daisy amiibo that've been collecting dust at my Wal-Mart.

She better have a "Hi I'm Daisy" taunt or I'm writing a very angry letter to Mr. Sakurai about how the game is ruined.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I hope Peach's new Final Smash shows off her telekinesis. In the Mario and Luigi games she straight up uses the force to throw Bowser out of her castle. It could probably act the same way that Mr. Game and Watch's updated Octopus move does.

I love how ludicrous the Princesses get in spin-offs?

Daisy can control plants and crystals.

Peach has telekinesis. Her emotions apparently are dangerous as well.

Like...how in the hell are these two even remotely damsels in distress?

 

[Enchess]

I don't know why people even want Geno in Smash. He's a niche character from a SNES game that the general consumer doesn't even know existed. He also faces competition from Sora for the second Square rep, if there even is a slot for one.

I'm pretty sure Disney owns Sora, which pretty much makes his inclusion impossible as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Cosmic77]

Here's the thing. If he tried getting Geno in Brawl, why did he skip over Geno for Cloud in Smash 4? Geno obviously had a lot of support, and his inclusion would certainly make a lot of people happy.

I'm sure there's plenty of characters Sakurai would like to see, but just because he publicly makes a comment on a character during one Smash game doesn't mean they're guaranteed in the next game. Yes, Geno is popular, but so is Dixie, and Impa, and Waluigi, and Captain Toad, and Bandana Dee, and Elma, and dozens upon dozens of other more relevant choices.

People need to understand that popularity itself does not gauge how likely a character is. It took Ridley nearly two decades to get in Smash, and he was consistent in both popularity and Metroid appearances. Would Geno, a random Mario character who hasn't technically done anything noteworthy since his debut in a spin-off game, really be one of the few newcomers Sakurai chooses to add for this Smash? Personally, I don't think so.

 

[Opossum]

I don't know why people even want Geno in Smash. He's a niche character from a SNES game that the general consumer doesn't even know existed. He also faces competition from Sora for the second Square rep, if there even is a slot for one.

Because they like the character and want to play as him?

Do you think people honestly stop liking a character based on something like company ownership?

 

[Dandelionel]

I love how ludicrous the Princesses get in spin-offs?

Daisy can control plants and crystals.

Peach has telekinesis. Her emotions apparently are dangerous as well.

Like...how in the hell are these two even remotely damsels in distress?

It's obvious that Peach enjoys it. Not judging her tho, everyone can have weird hobbies.

 

[StrangeMann]

I love how ludicrous the Princesses get in spin-offs?

Daisy can control plants and crystals.

Peach has telekinesis. Her emotions apparently are dangerous as well.

Like...how in the hell are these two even remotely damsels in distress?

I don't think those kinetic powers are actually in Mario Canon... But then again, what exactly is classified under mario canon anyway?

 

[KMDP]

I'm pretty sure Disney owns Sora, which pretty much makes his inclusion impossible as far as I'm concerned.

It's not impossible, per se, just a huge hassle for Sakurai and probably a lot of hoops to just through for one character.

It's obvious that Peach enjoys it. Not judging her tho, everyone can have weird hobbies.

Boredom is a powerful motivator for lots of weird things. Maybe Peach doesn't necessarily enjoy it, but it gets her out the castle and away from politics for a bit. XD

 

[Opossum]

I don't think those kinetic powers are actually in Mario Canon... But then again, what exactly is classified under mario canon anyway?

It could be argued that her floating ability is just her using her telekinesis on herself, I suppose.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I feel like Rosalina and the things Peach/Daisy do in spin-offs shows that all the human Mario females (except Pauline?) are magic users it's just that they need practice on their abilities where as she's honed hers.

It's kinda neat actually and adds something to the ladies.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I don't know why people even want Geno in Smash. He's a niche character from a SNES game that the general consumer doesn't even know existed. He also faces competition from Sora for the second Square rep, if there even is a slot for one.

Why he's popular doesn't matter, that he is popular does. I used to be a big Geno detractor with that attitude you have about him, but then Sakurai not only recognised that popularity (showing it's not just a "vocal minority" thing that people like to throw at characters with notable fanbases online like Geno, K. Rool, and previously Ridley), but outright said he wanted him in the game since Brawl. From what Sakurai said, Geno would have actually been in Smash since back in Brawl if he wasn't owned by Square Enix, and now that Square Enix is onboard with their main star in, I imagine it would be a lot easier to ask Square Enix for a character that doesn't really represent/promote them.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Like...how in the hell are these two even remotely damsels in distress?

Please, I'm reasonably sure Peach wants to be with Bowser.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

She better have a "Hi I'm Daisy" taunt or I'm writing a very angry letter to Mr. Sakurai about how the game is ruined.

Yes she needs to have this, funny thing is that in the mario spinoffs I used to use Mario, but then my IRL friends expressed an annoyance with Daisy so I started using her all the time. What started as a meme in this group turned into a like for Daisy in general haha.

They are scared now that she's in smash lmao.

 

[Pakky]

Man I wish Captain Syurp got more play, I think she's super cool.

When think of a "Waru" Peach, I think of her.

 

[Murlough]

I don't think Sora nor Geno are likely, to be honest. From what I've heard about Sora, Sakurai would have to jump through a ton of hoops just for him.On another hand, I have a friend who would do everything in his power to destroy me with Sora if he were in the game, which sounds like a fun change of pace. So, I'm not against Sora by any means but Sakurai has already stated he's had to twist arms to get every vet back and I doubt he would want to go through too much more of that.

Geno is more likely but he's so niche that it hurts. He has more going for him then Sora though. Sakurai has shown interest in him and said he would probably play like Mii Gunner so....do with that what you will. He is even more niche than K. Rool, too, so I personally wouldn't bet in his favor.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, SMRPG never being released here until the Wii Virtual Console isn't that big a deal as we didn't get Earthbound till 2013 or something

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It's such a dumb question to ask ''Why did he skip over Geno for Cloud?"

Well, obviously because Cloud Strife is a HUGE deal in gaming and to be fair Sakurai himself said in his interview about Cloud he didn't think it'd be possible, but he asked anyways.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Because they like the character and want to play as him?

Do you think people honestly stop liking a character based on something like company ownership?

While I definitely agree with what you’re saying (as people should definitely support who they want), I have a feeling his comment was more aimed at the difference between wanting a character because you like them and the idea that certain bits of information make a particular character suddenly more likely.

That is definitely an aspect of the Smash fan base. There are definitely people who, because they desire a character and love talking about the game, start seeing things where there really isn’t anything to see.

That said, I think Geno would be really fun. I just have my doubts that he’s likely/will be added.

 

[Pakky]

It's such a dumb question to ask ''Why did he skip over Geno for Cloud?"

Well, obviously because Cloud Strife is a HUGE deal in gaming and to be fair Sakurai himself said in his interview about Cloud he didn't think it'd be possible, but he asked anyways.

Actual videogame hall of famer

Along with Lara Croft, who is great but I hate how things have gone for her.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Also Peach can apparently summon rainbows now, like...where did that come from lmao

Also random magic powers with hearts and her explosive ass like...peach is strange in smash

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I used to laugh at the idea of Geno in Smash but because of that interview I simply can't deny Geno's genuinely popular, like how Ridley's popularity got acknowledged by Sakurai in a previous interview. Nowadays I just laugh at Banjo fans because there's multiple better choices and he overlaps too hard to get a goddamn Microsoft character

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Also Peach can apparently summon rainbows now, like...where did that come from lmao

Also random magic powers with hearts and her explosive *** like...peach is strange in smash

Shes a huge fan of Rainbow Islands: The Story of Bubble Bobble 2

 

[Pakky]

Thinking about Banjo ya'know what sucks

How ugly an objectively bad the Bat and Lizard game was.

 

[Enchess]

People keep saying Ridley isn't just in because he's popular, but also because he's relevant. I'm not sure that's actually true though. He has a secret final boss appearance that wasn't advertised in a niche game (didn't even bother putting it in Direct on E3 it was announced) on a system many were writing off as dead already. Is it more than K Rool or Geno have? Yeah, sure. But I still think calling Ridley relevant is a bit of a stretch. We shouldn't be so quick to write off popular characters just because it's been awhile since they were last relevant.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Sakurai is actually smart. If he TRULY wants Geno and wants to add him this time. He KNEW that he'd have to add another Square Enix representative first or otherwise people would have been like ''Why not Cloud? Lara Croft? Sora? Slime?"

Once you get that true Square icon in there. Geno is just easy road after that because the outliers don't go ''You went to Square for a fan wanted one time character really?"

As much as I love her? It'd be like if he went to Sega and added Bayonetta before Sonic even with her Nintendo ties people would have side eyed him.

 

[KMDP]

I used to laugh at the idea of Geno in Smash but because of that interview I simply can't deny Geno's genuinely popular, like how Ridley's popularity got acknowledged by Sakurai in a previous interview. Nowadays I just laugh at Banjo fans because there's multiple better choices and he overlaps too hard to get a goddamn Microsoft character

Rule to live by in Smash Speculation: Never sleep on a character (except non-Video Game characters), because Sakurai has his ways.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

Sakurai is actually smart. If he TRULY wants Geno and wants to add him this time. He KNEW that he'd have to add another Square Enix representative first or otherwise people would have been like ''Why not Cloud? Lara Croft? Sora? Slime?"

Once you get that true Square icon in there. Geno is just easy road after that because the outliers don't go ''You went to Square for a fan wanted one time character really?"

As much as I love her? It'd be like if he went to Sega and added Bayonetta before Sonic even with her Nintendo ties people would have side eyed him.

I still think if Sakurai keeps to his love of gaming history the next SE character if we get one will be a Dragon Quest character, but I also don't wanna be that guy who says Geno isn't likely, because this is likely his best shot if we go by the whole "Sakurai acknowledged he has a sizable fanbase" with a mii costume in 4, and such.

 

[Luminario]

I checked. Doesn't look like it's going downward, but it's definitely not the same angle as Peach's. If anything, it looks close to being horizontal.

And unless I'm looking at it wrong, her u-air has her slashing two rainbows instead of one. That's definitely a change.

From what I can tell Daisy Bomber shoots the opponent at a pretty similar angle to Peach's in Smash 4. Up air now has 2 rainbows but the attack had 2 hitboxes in Smash 4 anyway so it seems like it's just to show the hitboxes appropriately.
From looking at all the clips of Peach and Daisy they seem to share exactly the same moves and even the same float. The only notable move that's not been shown for Daisy is the Veggie.

Since all the new Final Smashes are basically one different ways to express "a really strong attack that gets right to the point", what would Peach's even be? It was never an attack to begin with. Haha

She could use the Vibe Scepter to create a tornado that sucks opponents into before blasting them away with fiery anger, or summon the Star Spirits to shoot down the Peach Beam.
To be honest, it isn't that necessary to replace Peach Blossom. It's pretty straight to the point with it's execution, and what it lacks in power it makes up with being a stage-wide attack that lasts for quite a few seconds and knocks opponents out of the sky nearby. Pretty much all they need to do is remove the peaches and give Peach like a 20% recovery instead so you don't have to run for the peaches before others wake up and eat them.

The only barrier to entry I can possibly see for Ashley is that Sakurai would have to come up with a whole new moveset for her, since I assume there's little to pull from from WarioWare in the form of attacks, and Sakurai doesn't seem to want to do that as much as back in 64.

Other than that, I pretty much see Ashley as a given.

There's actually a fair bit to pull from WarioWare's cutscenes of Ashley along with Game & Wario. The broomstick is pretty much a given for an up B, she shoots out purple lightning from her hand/wand to attack and cast spells, Red is capable of turning into her wand, broomstick, an umbrella and his original imp form, the wand is capable of spinning wildly through the air, shes's created a rose monster, she has a sentient spellbook, and has conjured up potions in a cauldron.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Here's the thing. If he tried getting Geno in Brawl, why did he skip over Geno for Cloud in Smash 4? Geno obviously had a lot of support, and his inclusion would certainly make a lot of people happy.

I'm sure there's plenty of characters Sakurai would like to see, but just because he publicly makes a comment on a character during one Smash game doesn't mean they're guaranteed in the next game. Yes, Geno is popular, but so is Dixie, and Impa, and Waluigi, and Captain Toad, and Bandana Dee, and Elma, and dozens upon dozens of other more relevant choices.

Because it's not just Sakurai's say with third parties, Sakurai can't tell a third party "hey I want this character" and that's it (we almost didn't have Sonic in Brawl because Sega initially refused, and then we didn't have Snake back in Smash 4), he needs to work with Square Enix and have their approval, and logically, why would Square Enix want a Mario character to be their sole representation instead of their biggest star? A Final Fantasy character itself was additionally a very popular request, and Cloud himself is a huge deal in gaming, so it's not like he passed over Geno for some "Sakurai pick". As such, I don't see how Cloud being chosen for Smash 4 DLC and as SE's first character precludes Geno from getting in alongside Cloud as a newcomer in Smash Ultimate.

People need to understand that popularity itself does not gauge how likely a character is. It took Ridley nearly two decades to get in Smash, and he was consistent in both popularity and Metroid appearances. Would Geno, a random Mario character who hasn't technically done anything noteworthy since his debut in a spin-off game, really be one of the few newcomers Sakurai chooses to add for this Smash? Personally, I don't think so.

And Ridley's obstacle was Sakurai being unable to envision him in a way that he was satisfied with, which he then worked on being able to solve in Smash Ultimate when Ridley's popularity persisted. Geno's obstacle was getting the licensing to him, which now will probably be far easier than it ever was. Not going to say Geno is guaranteed, but I don't think Geno should be treated as an impossible joke anymore.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

People keep saying Ridley isn't just in because he's popular, but also because he's relevant. I'm not sure that's actually true though. He has a secret final boss appearance that wasn't advertised in a niche game (didn't even bother putting it in Direct on E3 it was announced) on a system many were writing off as dead already. Is it more than K Rool or Geno have? Yeah, sure. But I still think calling Ridley relevant is a bit of a stretch. We shouldn't be so quick to write off popular characters just because it's been awhile since they were last relevant.

Actually there's a few things wrong there. For starters, Ridley's almost as relevant to Metroid as Samus, so if there's a Metroid game coming, Ridley's likely there too. Second, the E3 Direct focused solely on Switch games, third, Ridley WAS hyped up for Samus Returns, on the direct that was a day before Samus Return's release, it teased a fight with blurred out cutscenes, a nod to Smash, and "Vengeance has a name" while a familiar screech can be heard

 

[Pakky]

Sakurai is actually smart. If he TRULY wants Geno and wants to add him this time. He KNEW that he'd have to add another Square Enix representative first or otherwise people would have been like ''Why not Cloud? Lara Croft? Sora? Slime?"

Once you get that true Square icon in there. Geno is just easy road after that because the outliers don't go ''You went to Square for a fan wanted one time character really?"

As much as I love her? It'd be like if he went to Sega and added Bayonetta before Sonic even with her Nintendo ties people would have side eyed him.

To me, Mii fighter costumes might paint a picture of who's in and how are the new assist trophies

Geno and Rool against all odds are costumes which odd considering Dixie and anyone else could have been chosen instead.

Even though these are just costumes they were new assists that had to be made, Especially in Geno's case because no 3D model exists to be chopped up and made into a costume.

 

[KMDP]

There's actually a fair bit to pull from WarioWare's cutscenes of Ashley along with Game & Wario. The broomstick is pretty much a given for an up B, she shoots out purple lightning from her hand/wand to attack and cast spells, Red is capable of turning into her wand, broomstick, an umbrella and his original imp form, the wand is capable of spinning wildly through the air, shes's created a rose monster, she has a sentient spellbook, and has conjured up potions in a cauldron.

Well, then, I change my stance from "We could see Ashley, but probably not" to "Ashley's pretty effin' likely".

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I still think if Sakurai keeps to his love of gaming history the next SE character if we get one will be a Dragon Quest character, but I also don't wanna be that guy who says Geno isn't likely, because this is likely his best shot if we go by the whole "Sakurai acknowledged he has a sizable fanbase" with a mii costume in 4, and such.

I don't think Sakurai would've tried to give a fanbase that much false hope. His quote is actually very much ''He didn't appear as a fighter but I achieved something close to that with the Mii Fighter costume."

And it feels as if he knew the budget for Smash 4's DLC and timing wouldn't allow him to do TWO characters at once. Or at least that's the vibe I get.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

Peach has used magical abilities in the RPGs.

Her float is inherently magical as even cartoon physics doesn't explain a dress beinf able to perfectly scale gaps in a horizontal fashion.

She's always had good, pure magic, as that was explained as a counter to Bowser's dark magic, I believe.

All Daisy has is the spin-offa so whatever sje doea is probably canon to her due to consistency at this point.

Rosalina, I'm sure I don't have to go into this one.

Pauline, well, she has a magical voice

 

[Pakky]

Pauline, well, she has a magical voice

And looks great in a suit, mmmm.

 

[Ze Diglett]

It's such a dumb question to ask ''Why did he skip over Geno for Cloud?"

Well, obviously because Cloud Strife is a HUGE deal in gaming and to be fair Sakurai himself said in his interview about Cloud he didn't think it'd be possible, but he asked anyways.

This. The reality is that Geno was never going to be the first Square Enix character in Smash; it was always going to be Cloud, or at least someone from Square Enix's flagship series, first. To do otherwise would be like putting Agumon as the Namco rep before PAC-MAN; no offense to any Agumon fans, but it would just be stupid. To assume that because Sakurai sprung for Cloud Freakin' Strife before asking for Geno, he doesn't want to include Geno anymore is just laughable. Given the choice between one of gaming's biggest icons and a fan-favorite from a cult-classic RPG who hasn't gotten to do much since due to office politics, well...
I doubt even the most rabid of Geno fanboys would choose the latter if they were in Sakurai's position.
Need I remind you of the man's words on Geno, even after Cloud's addition to the cast:
"To tell the truth, it’s because I wanted Geno to be a playable character. He has a gun for a hand, and I think he fits in really well with Smash."
Just how many times has Sakurai said that for a character?
The fact of the matter is, folks, Sakurai still wants Geno in and has wanted him in for over ten years now, and when a character already has the proverbial green light from the man who calls the shots, frankly, I don't see how much better their chances can get, especially considering Geno's main obstacle, that being licensing issues, is already well behind him. Much like Ridley and Rool before him, he's hardly out of the running just because "he didn't make it the first time."

 

[Just a random scrub]

I don't know why people even want Geno in Smash. He's a niche character from a SNES game that the general consumer doesn't even know existed. He also faces competition from Sora for the second Square rep, if there even is a slot for one.

.....Because people like him and think he could have an interesting moveset (I mean, look at what Smash Crusade and Legacy did with him)? That's why I (and other people) want him in Smash? Yes, I'm aware he's niche. Yes, I know his game didn't sell too well because it was released near the end of the SNES' lifespan. But people can still want him in, and you have no right to tell them they shouldn't want whoever they like in Smash. Just makes you look like a ****.

 

[StrangeMann]

I don't think Sakurai would've tried to give a fanbase that much false hope. His quote is actually very much ''He didn't appear as a fighter but I achieved something close to that with the Mii Fighter costume."

And it feels as if he knew the budget for Smash 4's DLC and timing wouldn't allow him to do TWO characters at once. Or at least that's the vibe I get.

I've never thought of this before, but could a third party count as a retro rep?
As in, if we got Geno or Bub/Bob, would they could as retro reps for the base game?

 

[Pyra]

She could use the Vibe Scepter to create a tornado that sucks opponents into before blasting them away with fiery anger, or summon the Star Spirits to shoot down the Peach Beam.
To be honest, it isn't that necessary to replace Peach Blossom. It's pretty straight to the point with it's execution, and what it lacks in power it makes up with being a stage-wide attack that lasts for quite a few seconds and knocks opponents out of the sky nearby. Pretty much all they need to do is remove the peaches and give Peach like a 20% recovery instead so you don't have to run for the peaches before others wake up and eat them.

That's valid. In my head, though, it still lacks an "attack" part, which I think was the point of the changes. It's not exactly an offensive Final Smash, what you do afterwards isn't really part of the move so to speak.

Though we'll see. Who knows what'll happen. You're probably right.