Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[blackghost]

Like Daisy for example, people forget she was popular enough to actually show up in the top 20 for the ballot polls.

As for my final two pics, K.Rool and Banjo were all very popular picks in the polls for the ballot. Like, top 3. And K.Rool got made into a Mii costume. As did Geno now that I think about it. And Rayman had that whole fiasco too, and the Trophy. So imo, those are all safe picks, with Banjo being the biggest stretch, while still having a pretty solid shot what would be hype. Imo, we're gonna see less 1st party stuff make its way in terms for characters. So no Rex, or Spingman, or Deucideye imo. Maybe an ARMS stage though.

Stop citing ballot results for reasoning in characters. We dont know how characters did nor how pple voted. We've covered this numerous times. And no fan voting do not a good indication of anything.

As far as most people think daisy was made because as an echo she would take less time and luke the ither echoes is identical in hurtbox to snother character while a character like waluigi couldnt.

I cannot wrap my head around nintendo and sakurai choosing to ignore choosing to ignore franchises that have demonstrated recent sucess. Especially when sakurai is in record saying he likes xenoblade series.

 

[Jetsurge]

Obligatory, "Shadow makes a terrible echo fighter," post.

Imagine his overly serious self using Sonic's sidetilt or Upair for 2 seconds. Everything......everything is wrong with that.

Anyway, carry on.

I'd be kind of happy. Marx is way cooler and would probably be more interesting to play as.

Also the only series that should be getting 2 newcomers in this is DK.

 

[Untouch]

I keep seeing Ken Masters as some sort of Echo clone for Ryu, and while he is the original Echo of fighting games, I wonder why?
Is it because you want Ken as a character deeply? Or is it because it is convenient?

I think it might be a hazzle to give 3rd Parties echoes in general, just because there is lisence issues that needs to be fully figured out, just like a regular 3rd party. Even if it's Shadow, or Ken Masters. They need to pay for their lisence, just to make them the same like a pre-existing character, with new charismatics.

Still, I'm very curious to why Ken Masters. We got Akuma/Gouki, Sakura, Dan Hibiki, Sean Matsuda and many other shotos.
Personally, IF they went through the hazzle, I'd love to see Akuma of the viable options. He makes just as much sense as an echo as Daisy, Lucina and Dark Pit does. (Same with Ken, and Shadow, but Ken is the one in question)

I'd love to hear your views on the matter of Ken Masters.

He's one of the few characters I've seen suggested that actually make sense as an echo, though Ken has different attack properties so I don't know if he'd fit better as a clone.
I don't think we're going to get third party echos though.

 

[osby]

Probably treading in dangerous waters by saying this, but I seriously don't get why so many people are saying Geno is extremely likely now. The guy sticks out like a sore thumb when compared to the rest of the Mario characters, and there's not much that's changed since Smash 4 that would warrant Geno being prioritized over other newcomers.

Regardless of Sakurai's comments, I just don't see it happening. If Waluigi and (Captain) Toad can't get in, then I don't see why Geno would fare much better.

Moveset potential? Timed hits can be a cool concept if done right.
Though I agree, he's not really a frontrunner even now.

 

[Jetsurge]

Probably treading in dangerous waters by saying this, but I seriously don't get why so many people are saying Geno is extremely likely now. The guy sticks out like a sore thumb when compared to the rest of the Mario characters, and there's not much that's changed since Smash 4 that would warrant Geno being prioritized over other newcomers.

Regardless of Sakurai's comments, I just don't see it happening. If Waluigi and (Captain) Toad can't get in, then I don't see why Geno would fare much better.

He's much more wanted by the Smash community (Well he was back in 2015 before this whole Waluigi fiasco now) and he has amazing moveset potential that Captain Toad and Waluigi could never dream of.

Also Sakurai admitted to wanting him in Brawl (I suspect he was blocked by Square) and his mii fighter costume had a splash screen when it was revealed.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

A new Palutena's Guidance conversation has been developing in my mind lately...

Princess Daisy

• Pit: Did Princess Peach change her looks? The hairstyle looks way off.
• Viridi: That's not Princess Peach, Pit. Her name is Daisy, and she's the princess of Sarasaland.
• Pit: Sarasaland? I've never heard of it.
• Viridi: I'm not all the surprised. A lot of Daisy's popularity came from her party, sports, and kart racing appearances. But Mario did rescue her when an alien named Tatanga invaded her kingdom.
• Pit: But isn't it weird to see Daisy as a Super Smash Bros. contender? I mean, she doesn't seem all that important, and she's nowhere near as popular as Peach.
• Viridi: Maybe not, but she does fight in the same manner as Peach. I believe she's categorized as an "Echo Fighter".
• Pit: Echo Fighter?
• Palutena: Echo Fighters are fighters who mimic the movesets and attributes of another fighter.
• Viridi: Precisely, so in the case of Daisy, she has the same strengths and weaknesses as Peach.
• Pit: I see. So would this mean that Pittoo is my Echo Fighter? We do share the same moves and attributes.
• Viridi: Yes, but not the same personality. Daisy has a tougher and more hyperactive personality than Peach. If you're not careful, her flower power will knock you out.
• Pit: Okay, now you're starting to scare me...
• Palutena: Also, some of Daisy's attacks operate differently than Peach's attacks. Watch out for the Daisy Bomber, as it will send you flying at a low angle if you get hit.

 

[Wyoming]

Wolf should have his own theme since the Star Fox Victory theme is bizarre for him when you consider that in SF that sometimes plays when you defeat him

 

[IsmaR]

Besides Geno and maybe Elma I don't tink any of those are getting in.

... Did I take the wrong turn and ended up on /v/, now?

As much as I hate being the that'sthejoke.jpg/fun killer, obligatory "he's parroting this particular thread's history of speculation nitpicking" post.

I keep seeing Ken Masters as some sort of Echo clone for Ryu, and while he is the original Echo of fighting games, I wonder why?
Is it because you want Ken as a character deeply? Or is it because it is convenient?

I think it might be a hazzle to give 3rd Parties echoes in general, just because there is lisence issues that needs to be fully figured out, just like a regular 3rd party. Even if it's Shadow, or Ken Masters. They need to pay for their lisence, just to make them the same like a pre-existing character, with new charismatics.

Still, I'm very curious to why Ken Masters. We got Akuma/Gouki, Sakura, Dan Hibiki, Sean Matsuda and many other shotos.
Personally, IF they went through the hazzle, I'd love to see Akuma of the viable options. He makes just as much sense as an echo as Daisy, Lucina and Dark Pit does. (Same with Ken, and Shadow, but Ken is the one in question)

I'd love to hear your views on the matter of Ken Masters.

While I hold the opinion there are a literal half a dozen much more interesting shoto-clones, I can't deny that Ken is the most iconic and would seem simple enough to implement given we already had a trophy and his themes in the game.

I do think people are guessing/thinking Echo Fighters are more likelier than they actually are. The only one I'd actually spill any salt over being Dark Samus, and even then that's just bonus points after Ridley to me.

 

[Murlough]

But...but...but Shadow can't be an echo fighter he uses CHAOS CONTROL.

He literally only uses it in cutscenes and 90% of the time he's identical to Sonic during gameplay.

No, he would look like a moron using Sonic's moves. Sonic Upair and sidetilt are moves that show off Sonic's carefree nature. He's stylish and doesn't take things too seriously.

Giving Shadow Sonic's moves would be like if Shadow just randomly did a cartwheel mid SA2. It makes zero sense. The character isn't carefree and he doesn't care about how cool he looks. He wants to beat the opponent as quickly as possibly so he can continue to move forward toward his goal.

I could give a **** if they give him chaos control (Chaos Spear feels mandatory though...) They want to make him a semi-clone? Fine but you should fix the dopey looking attacks. Heck, Fair is something Shadow wouldn't do.

God forbid I want a character to be represented appropriately. Maybe lose the attitude and hear someone out who disagrees with you. I'd appreciate my argument not be strawmaned into a meme thanks.

(After rereading he literally ignored my argument completely....glad I wasted my time typing this up in response.)

 

[Cosmic77]

He's much more wanted by the Smash community (Well he was back in 2015 before this whole Waluigi fiasco now) and he has amazing moveset potential that Captain Toad and Waluigi could never dream of.

But if moveset potential is the primary reason why you'd think Geno is likely, would that be enough to get him in Smash over characters who are equally unique and relevant? His competition isn't exclusive to the Mario franchise. We're talking about every character Sakurai could consider for Smash.

I don't doubt that Geno wouldn't be unique, but compared to other popular requests, I just feel like he doesn't check off nearly as many boxes. It's an uphill struggle to say the least.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

While I want a lot of fan servicey characters and characters that "deserve it" I do hope there is one surprise character along the lines of Ayumi or Geno. I mean Geno would also please fans so that's a 2 for 1.

But yea I think this game needs one really unexpected pick. Not like Ridley unexpected, but like who? unexpected.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Probably treading in dangerous waters by saying this, but I seriously don't get why so many people are saying Geno is extremely likely now. The guy sticks out like a sore thumb when compared to the rest of the Mario characters, and there's not much that's changed since Smash 4 that would warrant Geno being prioritized over other newcomers.

Regardless of Sakurai's comments, I just don't see it happening. If Waluigi and (Captain) Toad can't get in, then I don't see why Geno would fare much better.

Strongly agree, the only thing going for him now is the mii costume which dozens of other characters also got, and that tweet which could mean nothing. Geno's been rejected in the past and his situation has only worsened over time as he's fallen even further out of relevance and his popularity has dwindled since the brawl days, I'm very doubtful he scored high on the ballot. People bring up uniqueness but Paper Mario and Captain Toad would be as well, he's not exactly special in that regard.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Giving Shadow Sonic's moves would be like if Shadow just randomly did a cartwheel mid SA2. It makes zero sense. The character isn't carefree and he doesn't care about how cool he looks. He wants to beat the opponent as quickly as possibly so he can continue to move forward twoard his goal.

Alright, I'm not going into the debate as to whatever Sonic moveset would go well on Shadow or not.

But doesn't Shadow say in SA2, the first Sonic game he ever appareared, word for word:

"I'm the coolest!"

?

You could say it's early-appareance weirdness, but even then, Shadow moves does have some style to them, heck, in Heroes, he litteraly dab if you go into rainbow ring.

Just because you are the ultimate lifeform, doesn't mean you can't look cool in the process.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No, he would look like a moron using Sonic's moves. Sonic Upair and sidetilt are moves that show off Sonic's carefree nature. He's stylish and doesn't take things too seriously.

Giving Shadow Sonic's moves would be like if Shadow just randomly did a cartwheel mid SA2. It makes zero sense. The character isn't carefree and he doesn't care about how cool he looks. He wants to beat the opponent as quickly as possibly so he can continue to move forward toward his goal.

I could give a **** if they give him chaos control (Chaos Spear feels mandatory though...) They want to make him a semi-clone? Fine but you should fix the dopey looking attacks. Heck, Fair is something Shadow wouldn't do.

God forbid I want a character to be represented appropriately. Maybe lose the attitude and hear someone out who disagrees with you. I'd appreciate my argument not be strawmaned into a meme thanks.

I mean tbf Shadow's not exclusively serious. It'd likely have a reference to how he goes "I'm the coolest!" in SA2 all smug as ****

Also did someone say David Hayter isn't the best Snake voice? I'm a toku weeb but I don't care if his Japanese VA is a Power Ranger, I want Hayter

 

[Deleted member]

as the newcomers i kinda see chrom shadow darksamus as echos,
and i would say as for newcomers simon seems by now very plausible, as for others i dont know how which franchise needs it most, propably donkey king, with maybe dixie echo and k rool, and well i have no idea what to expect from this game by now, elma also sounds totaly plausible as does rex/pyra. if they have planned for them and started work when character models had been finished it would make total sense too

as for dlc i think if rex/pyr wont make it they get dlc, sylux propably will be dlc i strongly believe that prime 4 might be the push that will corrin him into the roster
i kidna doubt that bandana dee will make it in kinda..

It's not quite the same. Sonic and Metroid only have 1 and 3 characters respectively, whereas FE has agreeably by pretty much everyone "too many." Moreover, I haven't looked into it, but perhaps someone can check if Chrom's color palette is still available for Ike or not. I personally just don't see it. Plus, what would he be? A slightly faster Ike? Shadow, Dark Samus, and Ken all bring unique potential gameplay differences into the mix, with very little effort, and pretty much aligning with their canon. Dark Samus having more "burn damage" than Samus, but being slower and stronger. Her beam being different too. Shadow having lower acceletation and less traction than Sonic, but making up for it with increased damage. And Ken having a Shoryuken with a fire effect that's multihit, and his tatsumaki staying in place, being more of a KO move, and also being multihit.

Obligatory, "Shadow makes a terrible echo fighter," post.

Imagine his overly serious self using Sonic's sidetilt or Upair for 2 seconds. Everything......everything is wrong with that.

Anyway, carry on.

But Shadow uses Springs in the Sonic series, how is that wrong? And his Side Tilt (what even IS Sonic's side tilt now? It's changed so much), and Uair fit with his character just fine, condiering in SA2 he's literally "evil Sonic." He's his doppelganger, and play pretty much identically to Sonic. Only real difference you'd have is give him a different run animation, but considering Daisy got a few sligth changes like that, it's totally fine.

But...but...but Shadow can't be an echo fighter he uses CHAOS CONTROL.

He literally only uses it in cutscenes and 90% of the time he's identical to Sonic during gameplay.

Literally make Chaos Control his Final Smash. Echo Fighters can have different FS's. Dark Pit's for example is very different from Pit's.

Ken, instead of having Shinku Hadouken, and Metsu Shoryuken, would instead have Shinryuken, and Shoryureppa.

I keep seeing Ken Masters as some sort of Echo clone for Ryu, and while he is the original Echo of fighting games, I wonder why?
Is it because you want Ken as a character deeply? Or is it because it is convenient?

I think it might be a hazzle to give 3rd Parties echoes in general, just because there is lisence issues that needs to be fully figured out, just like a regular 3rd party. Even if it's Shadow, or Ken Masters. They need to pay for their lisence, just to make them the same like a pre-existing character, with new charismatics.

Still, I'm very curious to why Ken Masters. We got Akuma/Gouki, Sakura, Dan Hibiki, Sean Matsuda and many other shotos.
Personally, IF they went through the hazzle, I'd love to see Akuma of the viable options. He makes just as much sense as an echo as Daisy, Lucina and Dark Pit does. (Same with Ken, and Shadow, but Ken is the one in question)

I'd love to hear your views on the matter of Ken Masters.

It's a bit of both for me. I've always preferred Ken over Ryu both in terms of playstyle, and personality, and I think it'd be a cool nod to SF. Having both Ken and Ryu show up, especially since Ryu now faces his opponents. I mean, even all the way back to SF1, Ken was there. He's THE OG clone character, and most fitting for an Echo fighter. As soon as they got a name, and we saw that we could have multiple characters from 3rd party devs. I felt he was perfect.

Also, I don't think it's a hassle at all. Considering Nintendo got the Bomberman licence to make him an AT. Making Ken an Echo Fighter, I'm sure Capcom would be more than happy with that.

As for why Ken over the other shotos. It's precicely BECAUSE he's so similar to Ryu that makes him the best fit. Literally has 90% of Ryu's moveset, with his specials being more multi-hit and combo heavy. Ken is basically Rushdown Ryu, more aggressive, and with more personality. Characters like Akuma, Sakura, and all the other shoto-clones are far more distinguished, and wouldn't work as echo characters unless you bastardized them. Which would be a disservice to them that would piss off many SF fans. Ken's the only proper fit, and imo, the best choice for an echo.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

While I want a lot of fan servicey characters and characters that "deserve it" I do hope there is one surprise character along the lines of Ayumi or Geno. I mean Geno would also please fans so that's a 2 for 1.

But yea I think this game needs one really unexpected pick. Not like Ridley unexpected, but like who? unexpected.

Donbe and Hikari.

 

[KMDP]

Alright, I'm not going into the debate as to whatever Sonic moveset would go well on Shadow or not.

But doesn't Shadow say in SA2, the first Sonic game he ever appareared, word for word:

"I'm the coolest!"

?

You could say it's early-appareance weirdness, but even then, Shadow moves does have some style to them, heck, in Heroes, he litteraly dab if you go into rainbow ring.

Just because you are the ultimate lifeform, doesn't mean you can't look cool in the process.

I think the thing about Shadow is that he tries to look cool, in that kind of angsty teenage no-sense-of-self way. He probably wouldn't do something that doesn't make him look cool.

"I'm the coolest!" is the facade slipping slightly.

 

[Deleted member]

Stop citing ballot results for reasoning in characters. We dont know how characters did nor how pple voted. We've covered this numerous times. And no fan voting do not a good indication of anything.

As far as most people think daisy was made because as an echo she would take less time and luke the ither echoes is identical in hurtbox to snother character while a character like waluigi couldnt.

I cannot wrap my head around nintendo and sakurai choosing to ignore choosing to ignore franchises that have demonstrated recent sucess. Especially when sakurai is in record saying he likes xenoblade series.

I'll do whatever I like, thank you very much. The reasoning is simple, Daisy was picked as an Echo for Peach, partly because of her popularity. And while the polls might not reflect how the ballot votes might have turned out, they are a decent enough indicator of a character's popularity. Sakurai is gonna go for picks that are popular most of all this time around, as the number of characters he can add now is very limited. So he's gonna go for fan favorites. Like her or not (I never did), Daisy IS a fan favorite, and popular.

 

[Jetsurge]

It's not quite the same. Sonic and Metroid only have 1 and 3 characters respectively, whereas FE has agreeably by pretty much everyone "too many." Moreover, I haven't looked into it, but perhaps someone can check if Chrom's color palette is still available for Ike or not. I personally just don't see it. Plus, what would he be? A slightly faster Ike? Shadow, Dark Samus, and Ken all bring unique potential gameplay differences into the mix, with very little effort, and pretty much aligning with their canon. Dark Samus having more "burn damage" than Samus, but being slower and stronger. Her beam being different too. Shadow having lower acceletation and less traction than Sonic, but making up for it with increased damage. And Ken having a Shoryuken with a fire effect that's multihit, and his tatsumaki staying in place, being more of a KO move, and also being multihit.

Ike only has 4 of his Smash 4 alts in the demo because the other 4 are taken up by his older Brawl look. It could change in the final game. I don't think the Chrom one was there.

 

[Murlough]

I mean tbf Shadow's not exclusively serious. It'd likely have a reference to how he goes "I'm the coolest!" in SA2 all smug as ****

I actually forgot about that....even so he never full on styles on anybody. And since his new personality developed I don't believe he's acted that way.

Alright, I'm not going into the debate as to whatever Sonic moveset would go well on Shadow or not.

But doesn't Shadow say in SA2, the first Sonic game he ever appareared, word for word:

"I'm the coolest!"

?

You could say it's early-appareance weirdness, but even then, Shadow moves does have some style to them, heck, in Heroes, he litteraly dab if you go into rainbow ring.

Just because you are the ultimate lifeform, doesn't mean you can't look cool in the process.

Dabs didn't exist then. He just did a motion that looked like a dab. Even if Shadow had a thing for looking cool, he wouldn't get style points for copying another character.

But Shadow uses Springs in the Sonic series, how is that wrong? And his Side Tilt (what even IS Sonic's side tilt now? It's changed so much), and Uair fit with his character just fine, condiering in SA2 he's literally "evil Sonic." He's his doppelganger, and play pretty much identically to Sonic. Only real difference you'd have is give him a different run animation, but considering Daisy got a few sligth changes like that, it's totally fine.

Alright boys, now I get it. We can only allow the characters to do what they would have done in their initial appearences. Anything after that means nothing. Thats why Mario has Fludd. Thats why Luigi acts anything like Luigi. Etc.

I didn't say anything about springs. If yall actually want to debate try NOT PUTTING WORDS IN OTHER PEOPLES MOUTHS. It works a hell of alot more than "omagerd he likes Shader he mus want de chaos control!"

Please stop that. I would like Shadow to have a teleporting up special but that isn't what I was arguing.

Also, in SA2 Shadow still had unique abilities to him, just like every other character. So even then, he was set apart.

This IS just the "gen 1" argument for Shadow and its actually garbage.

 

[Smashiny]

Here are 2 codecs, I did.

-AUX Call, Frequency 141.12-

: Otacon, there's this woman dressed like someone from the Greek era with long green hair...
: That's me you're fighting, silly.
: What!? Who is this!? How did you get into this channel!?
: I'm a goddess, Snake. What did you expect?
: I'd expect a little privacy...
: Well, knowing that I've gotten into your channel, know that you unfortunately won't be getting any outside advice.
: Since you're right in front of me, is there a reason why you performed this little stunt?
: I simply wanted to play with you for a bit. You don't know me at all, do you Snake?
: Why do you think I was calling for he-!? *sighs in frustration*

-CODEC Ends-

-AUX Call, Frequency 140.85-

: I'm getting really bad flashbacks with this one...
: That's Mewtwo, Snake. He's one of the strongest Pokemon in all of existence. A Psychic type, he is well adept at using telekinetic attacks and powerful projectiles to keep you at bay.
: *sighs*.....do I need to stick the controller to another port?
: Not ideally but it does gain you control of him while you can't move at all. Curiously, Mewtwo was genetically engineered after the worlds strongest Pokemon. Sound familiar, Snake?
: Everything about this thing is a living nightmare...

-CODEC Ends-

 

[KMDP]

Dabs didn't exist then. He just did a motion that looked like a dab. ASonic's moves don't look cool.

Dabs have existed for longer than people think. But even then it's probably not a dab, there's a Sentai pose that looks very similar (you can see Gotenks do it a lot in Dragon Ball Z, even as recently as Dragon Ball FighterZ).

EDIT: Specifically, I'm talking about this, that's not a dab, that's a pose that's existed in Sentai for decades.

 

[Smashiny]

This made me think of something interesting, what would Castlevania's series icon be? It could be a crucifix related object, but Nintendo has had a history of censoring those (although a lot less in the past decade or so). Still would feel kinda weird to have a cross as a series logo jesus for smash. The only other thing I could think for the series would be a moon or something but Bayo's already got that covered (not that we didn't have two foxes in Brawl).

Anyone whose actually played Castlevania have any ideas lol

Maybe a haunch of wall meat as an icon?

 

[MainJPW]

But...but...but Shadow can't be an echo fighter he uses CHAOS CONTROL.

He literally only uses it in cutscenes and 90% of the time he's identical to Sonic during gameplay.

That’s blatantly false. Shadow uses Chaos Control in gameplay in various games:

- Sonic Adventure 2 (2P Special Attack)
- Sonic Heroes (During Chaos Inferno, freezing gameplay for several seconds)
- Sonic Battle (he utilized CC in his moves via space manipulation and teleportation)
- Shadow The Hedgehog (with a full Hero Meter)
- Sonic 06 (Chaos Snap)
- Sonic Rivals 1 & 2 (It’s his signature move in both games)
- Sonic Riders 1 & Zero Gravity (One of his abilities)
- SATBK (During Chaos Punishment)

Keep in mind that Chaos Control is an ability that lets him warp time and space, he even utilizes it to teleport himself. He doesn’t just freeze time with it.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Stop citing ballot results for reasoning in characters. We dont know how characters did nor how pple voted. We've covered this numerous times. And no fan voting do not a good indication of anything.

As far as most people think daisy was made because as an echo she would take less time and luke the ither echoes is identical in hurtbox to snother character while a character like waluigi couldnt.

I cannot wrap my head around nintendo and sakurai choosing to ignore choosing to ignore franchises that have demonstrated recent sucess. Especially when sakurai is in record saying he likes xenoblade series.

You can say that all you want but it's by logic king k rool is within the top 10 most voted for

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/22/japantopdlcpart1/

King k rool is the most wanted newcomer in japan and Ridley was the most wanted in the west(USA) and he got in

And the west (USA) is pretty gosh darn close to Ridley level of how much we want king k rool in are sites very one "rate their chances" king k rool is the most wanted with 74% as average

If you look at several fan versions of polls for wanted newcomers for smash bros king k rool won in almost all of them even in a few smash bros ultimate (switch before the reveal) he's still winning

And moveset potential is very very high with his blunderbust his crown throw his helipack and clearly not have physical attacks that would make him semi-clone bowser

And source gaming sakurai interview the first proposal for smash ultimate was completed in December 2015 and that was before bayonetta was competed and after the ballot was finished and the roster for ultimate was finalized in 2016 so logically most of the newcomer should will come from that ballot.

But your right impossible to tell how some characters did but a couple like king k rool is logically easy to tell they did very good or not

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This made me think of something interesting, what would Castlevania's series icon be? It could be a crucifix related object, but Nintendo has had a history of censoring those (although a lot less in the past decade or so). Still would feel kinda weird to have a cross as a series logo jesus for smash. The only other thing I could think for the series would be a moon or something but Bayo's already got that covered (not that we didn't have two foxes in Brawl).

Anyone whose actually played Castlevania have any ideas lol

The castle itself.

 

[Murlough]

Also, if I wanted Shadow to have a unique Final Smash (which tbh Super Shadow is too good to pass up anyway.) I would want Chaos Blast.

Chaos Blast, like Spear, is actually unique to Shadow as far as I know.

 

[Deleted member]

I actually forgot about that....even so he never full on styles on anybody. And since his new personality developed I don't believe he's acted that way.

Dabs didn't exist then. He just did a motion that looked like a dab. Even if Shadow had a thing for looking cool, he wouldn't get style points for copying another character.
Alright boys, now I get it. We can only allow the characters to do what they would have done in their initial appearences. Anything after that means nothing. Thats why Mario has Fludd. Thats why Luigi acts anything like Luigi. Etc.

I didn't say anything about springs. If yall actually want to debate try NOT PUTTING WORDS IN OTHER PEOPLES MOUTHS. It works a hell of alot more than "omagerd he likes Shader he mus want de chaos control!"

Please stop that. I would like Shadow to have a teleporting up special but that isn't what I was arguing.

Also, in SA2 Shadow still had unique abilities to him, just like every other character. So even then, he was set apart.

This IS just the "gen 1" argument for Shadow and its actually garbage.

You're getting upset about people putting words in your mouth, yet there you go and build a strawman argument.

Your case is: Shadow is too different from Sonic.

Everyone else is saying: In his original incarnation, he was a literal doppelganger of Sonic who played almost identically to him.

No one is saying that only his original incarnation matter, you're saying he can't be an Echo fighterz people are retorting by giving examples of why he can be. Just cause you don't wanna see Shadow be an Echo Fighter and it makes you upset, doesn't mean it can't be done, and doesn't align with his cannon. Look, fact us, Shadow as a clone isn't happening. It's either Echo Fighter Shadow or nothing at all, and regardless of how you might feel, all signs seem to be pointing to the fact he might be in as an Echo Fighter, so you might as well learn to deal with it right now.

If you wanna play Shadow as a more original character, PM is right there.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I think the thing about Shadow is that he tries to look cool, in that kind of angsty teenage no-sense-of-self way. He probably wouldn't do something that doesn't make him look cool.

"I'm the coolest!" is the facade slipping slightly.

Yeah, Shadow pretty much try to look cool most of the time, even if he doesn't admit it.

Dabs have existed for longer than people think. But even then it's probably not a dab, there's a Sentai pose that looks very similar (you can see Gotenks do it a lot in Dragon Ball Z, even as recently as Dragon Ball FighterZ).

I agree with Gotenks, but even if Shadow doesn't do a dab per say, he still try to do a cool pose in the process. Which mean he does care a bit as to how he look while fighting.

In any case, I admit I am not the biggest Shadow fan out there, I know stuff about him, but I couldn't tell for sure if him having Sonic moveset would be OOC for him or not.

Tho, if he is a Echo, and if you want him to stay loyal to the character, put items on, put only Ray Gun, Super Scope & Banana Gun, and bam, Shadow moveset is loyal to his character.

 

[Murlough]

You're getting upset about people putting words in your mouth, yet there you go and build a strawman argument.

Your case is: Shadow is too different from Sonic.

Everyone else is saying: In his original incarnation, he was a literal doppelganger of Sonic who played almost identically to him.

No one is saying that only his original incarnation matter, you're saying he can't be an Echo fighterz people are retorting by giving examples of why he can be. Just cause you don't wanna see Shadow be an Echo Fighter and it makes you upset, doesn't mean it can't be done, and doesn't align with his cannon. Look, fact us, Shadow as a clone isn't happening. It's either Echo Fighter Shadow or nothing at all, and regardless of how you might feel, all signs seem to be pointing to the fact he might be in as an Echo Fighter, so you might as well learn to deal with it right now.

If you wanna play Shadow as a more original character, PM is right there.

I'm not upset at all, though. I'm also not strawmaning anything. I said "Even in SA2 they gave Shadow some unique abilities." I directly addressed your argument. How the **** is that a strawman?
Have you ever considered the possibility that Shadow could get in as a non-Echo? Everyones just writing him off as an Echo even though the only reason they have to do that are "He looks like Sonic," "He played like Sonic in the first game he was in (your argument. Again.)," and "Echo fighters have an official name now so naturally there will be several." (the first one is true, the second is ignorance of anything after SA2, and the last is a blatant assumption that has no ground to stand on.)

I'm giving you examples of why he shouldn't be an Echo. You're literally calling me out for blowing off your argument while simultaneously blowing off mine. At least I bother to address yours.

I like how you say "its Echo or bust for Shadow" when you have no ****ing reason for believing that. Sakurai could literally make him a semi-clone just like any other character. Your just assuming! How do you not see that!

If anything "upsets" (the list of things that do is very, very little by the way) me its people who act like I'm being the **** when they are trying to shove their opinion down my throat while ignoring mine because they don't like it.

I don't like PM nor do I own Brawl. I really don't care how a fan game handles characters.

 

[ZagarTulip]

I think it would be cool if Super Smash Bros. Ultimate introduced a Victory Theme for Every Single Character just like in ????????????? 's Videos.
TBH I think those Victory Themes were the best ideas he has had in his videos

Here are some Ideas on his video:

Since that video was before E3, here is where Pichu's Victory Theme could derive from:

 

[KMDP]

Yeah, Shadow pretty much try to look cool most of the time, even if he doesn't admit it.

I agree with Gotenks, but even if Shadow doesn't do a dab per say, he still try to do a cool pose in the process. Which mean he does care a bit as to how he look while fighting.

In any case, I admit I am not the biggest Shadow fan out there, I know stuff about him, but I couldn't tell for sure if him having Sonic moveset would be OOC for him or not.

Tho, if he is a Echo, and if you want him to stay loyal to the character, put items on, put only Ray Gun, Super Scope & Banana Gun, and bam, Shadow moveset is loyal to his character.

In most games since Sonic Adventure 2 and Sonic Heroes, Sonic and Shadow have been pretty different.

Leaving alone that they walk and talk differently (which is obvious even to the most casual observer )...

In Sonic Battle, Sonic is more of a Dance Battler (Sonic likes to breakdance, like, a lot), while Shadow is more of a Brawler.

Sonic punches, Shadow chops.
Sonic does a breakdance spin to kick. While Shadow does a back kick.

Spoiler: Example Images

EDIT: Aw hell, the images won't load. Just go here and here.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not upset at all, though. I'm also not strawmaning anything. I said "Even in SA2 they gave Shadow some unique abilities." I directly addressed your argument. How the **** is that a strawman?
Have you ever considered the possibility that Shadow could get in as a non-Echo? Everyones just writing him off as an Echo even though the only reason they have to do that are "He looks like Sonic," "He played like Sonic in the first game he was in (your argument. Again.)," and "Echo fighters have an official name now so naturally there will be several."

I'm giving you examples of why he shouldn't be an Echo. You're literally calling me out for blowing off your argument while simultaneously blowing off mine. At least I bother to address yours.

I like how you say "its Echo or bust for Shadow" when you have no ****ing reason for believing that. Sakurai could literally make him a semi-clone just like any other character. Your just assuming! How do you not see that!

If anything "upsets" (the list of things that do is very, very little by the way) me its people who act like I'm being the **** when they are trying to shove their opinion down my throat while ignoring mine because they don't like it.

I don't like PM nor do I own Brawl. I really don't care how a fan game handles characters.

Outside of being an Echo Fighter, I don't think Shadow has ANY chance at all of getting in. At best, Sakurai will make him an Echo whete his UpB is a teleport rather than the spring, and that's it.

 

[Pyra]

Pretty effin' awesome. I'm in Australia for a while, so the mornings are when all the neat stuff happens.

I wake up and have a whole day's worth of US news.

Really excited for Smash Ultimate though. Inklings are my jam and have been for a while.
Oh yeah, too.

I fully intend on maining Inklings. 100%
Im so excited for them. Mostly cause I can actually be good at them in this game because I suck at splatoon.

 

[Cosmic77]

*Sakurai talks about Echo Fighters.

*Shadow's AT is missing at E3.

*Not only do people automatically assume Shadow is playable, but they chalk him up as an Echo Fighter.


Has anyone considered the possibility that Shadow's missing AT is just a coincidence? Has anyone considered the possibility that Shadow could get in as a unique character, and that we shouldn't just throw him into the giant pile of potential Echo Fighters we've created following E3?

We're jumping to conclusions, people.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yall signs seem to be pointing to the fact he might be in as an Echo Fighter, so you might as well learn to deal with it right now.

Just like how we had to learn to deal with the fact the franchise would get rebooted and we'd only have like 12 characters, right? You have no right to yell like you're know for a fact what's going to happen considering that **** you've been pushing constantly about a reboot and minimal roster never happened. I know you can't help but be wrong, when you tried to spoil a rather major Xenoblade X plot twist to whine about "waaaah Nintendo is censoring the video games I hope Treehouse gets fired because of what I expect to happen for the English localization that never actually happened" you didn't even get the plot twist right so stop acting like you actually know what'll happen

 

[splat]

You can say that all you want but it's by logic king k rool is within the top 10 most voted for

Keep in mind fan polls are generally only voted on by the most hardcore audience, while the official polls tend to be visited by the more casual audience, too. Bayo did not do that well in the fan polls, but did well enough on the official ones to be included.

Another thing to keep in mind is the method of polling: the fan polls tend to give you much more options, so the characters that are more popular overall get more votes - though they might not be anyone's favorite per se. I voted for Dixie in the ballot, while in fan votes I can vote for Dixie and five others.

While I want a lot of fan servicey characters and characters that "deserve it" I do hope there is one surprise character along the lines of Ayumi or Geno. I mean Geno would also please fans so that's a 2 for 1.

But yea I think this game needs one really unexpected pick. Not like Ridley unexpected, but like who? unexpected.

Dr. Lobe as the figurehead for Nintendo's brain training games and/or Touch! Generations period?

 

[TBone06]

Strongly agree, the only thing going for him now is the mii costume which dozens of other characters also got, and that tweet which could mean nothing. Geno's been rejected in the past and his situation has only worsened over time as he's fallen even further out of relevance and his popularity has dwindled since the brawl days, I'm very doubtful he scored high on the ballot. People bring up uniqueness but Paper Mario and Captain Toad would be as well, he's not exactly special in that regard.

There are a lot of things going for him. The reason why his popularity "dwindled" after Brawl is because after he didn't make the cut, the feeling was he wasn't a realizable character. The fact that he got a costume in Smash 4 brought that hope back. At the time of the costume, the roster wasn't going to get many more characters, and if you have the chance to get just one of Cloud or Geno, you're going to take Cloud. To me (and this is my opinion) he was never going to get in if Square was on board. During Brawl and before the Cloud inclusion, Square probably wasn't willing to work together. Timing was a huge factor on this. Now that Square was on board from the start, I think that issue is no longer present. They already gave the blessing for the costume, so you'd figure permission shouldn't be an issue as well. I've said before, if he never received a costume, I think his chance would be significantly less, because that addresses his popularity. It was also the only one that had a splash screen when it was revealed. He also wasn't in the game as a trophy or an AT, so this was a brand new design, where some of them had those to base the costume on.

I'm not denying he hasn't been "relevant" for a while, yet he's still one of the highest requested characters. Sakurai stated he wanted him for Brawl and Smash 4, and like you said, that may mean nothing. But if you have the creator of the game on your side, I can't see that as a negative, especially when most of those hurdles are no longer there.

Also, the fact that Super Mario RPG was on the SNES Classic brings his relevancy up a bit. By no means am I saying he's a shoo-in, but he has a lot going for him.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

You can say that all you want but it's by logic king k rool is within the top 10 most voted for

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/09/13/japantopdlcpt2/
https://sourcegaming.info/2015/08/22/japantopdlcpart1/

King k rool is the most wanted newcomer in japan and Ridley was the most wanted in the west(USA) and he got in

And the west (USA) is pretty gosh darn close to Ridley level of how much we want king k rool in are sites very one "rate their chances" king k rool is the most wanted with 74% as average

If you look at several fan versions of polls for wanted newcomers for smash bros king k rool won in almost all of them even in a few smash bros ultimate (switch before the reveal) he's still winning

And moveset potential is very very high with his blunderbust his crown throw his helipack and clearly not have physical attacks that would make him semi-clone bowser

And source gaming sakurai interview the first proposal for smash ultimate was completed in December 2015 and that was before bayonetta was competed and after the ballot was finished and the roster for ultimate was finalized in 2016 so logically most of the newcomer should will come from that ballot.

But your right impossible to tell how some characters did but a couple like king k rool is logically easy to tell they did very good or not

OK super serious question to everyone here but is this source gaming poll only based on 1,000 posts and thus 1,000 people? (Or less since I'm not sure if any of those posts are double posts).

Assuming I'm correct, and let's say its 1,000 individuals, that does not represent the Japanese population that purchased Smash 4.

According to Wikipedia , based off only Smash 3DS sales there were over 2,000,000 purchased. Let's assume everyone who bought voted once (which is fair because people voting for multiple characters can make up for those who didn't vote). 1,000 is only 0.05% of that total. And that's only based on Smash 3DS sales.

Seriously am I missing something here? The work they did at Source Gaming for that poll is cool, but it in no way reflects the ballot results of Japan, it just can't. Super open to being corrected, or better explaining how this process worked. I just see this cited a lot as King K. Rool did well in the Japan ballot, but from how this is presented it looks like King K Rool did well in 0.05% of the ballot.

 

[KMDP]

Outside of being an Echo Fighter, I don't think Shadow has ANY chance at all of getting in. At best, Sakurai will make him an Echo whete his UpB is a teleport rather than the spring, and that's it.

Yeah, see, changing one of his specials like that would make him not an Echo Fighter. As far as we know Echo Fighters to be.