Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Idon]

What echo clones would you like to see in the game?

I'd rather not see any, but Black Knight would be pretty damn cool over Ike.

 

[Starbound]

But then the question is, what does that make of Dixie and K.Rool?

I really doubt Sakurai would work on Tropical Freeze related stuff without Dixie(Especially since Diddy losing his tail whips is highly suspect), but I cannot imagine a world where all three of Dixie, K.Rool and Funky get onto the roster.

I don't think Funky's addition, should it happen, has any effect on the chances of Dixie or K. Rool, as they were decided at separate times. I agree that Tropical Freeze priority goes to Dixie, especially as Tropical Freeze was very relevant due to the release being right before the project proposal being pitched.

I think it's a possibility that we get all three, especially if K. Rool got lots of ballot support and Dixie had relevancy on her side. Funky would likely be an afterthought to pad the roster more, and I don't think Sakurai minds if DK gets 3 new characters (considering that happened with FE last game).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

nintnedo has more relvant nindie rpgs.

Golden Sun isn't a Nindie series.

It's owned by Nintendo.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

If we can get Ridley then we are sure as hell gonna get K. Rool.

 

[NintenRob]

So I went and Updated my roster for the first time since news dropped. The layout itself is also a bit of a prediction. Just imagine the top and bottom row is more centred
View attachment 149903

Bandana Dee: Fan Favourite (both within the Smash and Kirby fan base), Recurring, likely easy to create, uses a weapon not seen in Smash. 4th core member of his franchise

King K Rool: I imagine his extreme populararity will help a lot, and despite his absence he's still important to his series.

Simon Belmont: Konami is involved again and we know we're getting more than just Meta Gear it feels like an obvious choice even without leaks, especially when Bomberman is deconfirmed

Rex & Pyra: I was this >< close to leaving them off the roster, but a last minute decision I put them back on. The game was in development since 2014 and with the game does seem to have a different development structure with it using the Wii U version as a base so maybe there's room for a late addition so either way, I'm not going to give up hope just yet

Chorus Kids: There was evidence that they were planed for the previous games but probably left out for 3DS reasons or lack of development time. I did want to include another moderm franchise outside of Splatoon so I feel like something from Rhythm Heaven is a good guess

Skull Kid: don't get me started, you'll regret it

Excitebiker: I'm not as convinced that we're getting a retro character as I normally am, but if we get one I think it's Excitebiker. It's just a very iconic figure of the NES and even got a stage in Mario Kart. Definitely see it happening

Isabelle: She's not an echo, but not necessarily unique. I was hesitant to put her here, but she is basically the icon of Animal Crossing at this point so I definitely see them trying to find a way to include her as playable. Then again they opted against BOTW Zelda because "she's more into research" so maybe I'm off putting her here. But I'll stick with her for now


Echoes (put at the end, but ordered based on the originals inclusion on the roster)

Dark Samus: No Assist Trophy yet, No Samus colour and Ridley getting a unique victory that isn't his signature tune for some reason. A victory tune that would be perfect for Dark Samus, perhaps more so than Ridley

Impa: A popular choice, easy. Despite the image on the roster I actually think it's going to be SS Impa.

Octoling: The way I see it, if Roy could get in Melee, then I reckon the same could here. There's been evidence Octolings were going to be playable for a long time, and this is the year of the Octolings (lol)

Anyone?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'd rather not see any, but Black Knight would be pretty damn cool over Ike.

Black Knight doing flips confuses me.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

Eh, I'd prefer Rash stays in Killer Instinct and we get Jago or Fulgore as the Microsoft character. (bias)

What echo clones would you like to see in the game?


I want Ninten. I loved playing Mother 1 and I’ll never complain about more Mother representation.

I'm a little biased thanks to the Octo Expansion, but the Octoling is a character I wouldn't object to seeing as an Echo Fighter or Semi-Clone. Personally I'd make the Octolings a semi-clone and have them use other Splatoon weapons, such as the Heavy Splatling, Octobrush and Curling Bombs.

Dark Samus would be another character I might take as a Semi-clone or Echo Fighter.

You know....

Dark Pit and Lucina were echo fighters because they were originally costumes.

Does that mean Daisy was originally a costume or was it more of a Melee and Brawl situation where certain characters were set aside for possible echo fighters?

I guess they figured that because Daisy had a lot of popularity already, it wouldn't hurt to show her now than later.

 

[Slavic]

What echo clones would you like to see in the game?


I want Ninten. I loved playing Mother 1 and I’ll never complain about more Mother representation.

Only one Echo fighter for me

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't like the idea of Ninten. At all. It causes a single problem, how do you differentiate him from Ness? "Well he'd be an Echo fighter so he'd be-" Nonononono! Visually! Adding Ninten means 2 players can have the same looking anime boy with a cap on the wrong way and a blue/yellow striped shirt. Wouldn't that end up confusing people playing on a smaller screen or in portable mode or some ****?

 

[osby]

Anyone?

I agree with you about Isabelle, Bandana Dee and maybe on King K.Rool.
Not much on others.

 

[Idon]

Black Knight doing flips confuses me.

Sshh, just accept BK the hedgehog.

 

[Starbound]

You know....

Dark Pit and Lucina were echo fighters because they were originally costumes.

Does that mean Daisy was originally a costume or was it more of a Melee and Brawl situation where certain characters were set aside for possible echo fighters?

I'd imagine Daisy started off as a costume given she's been one for 17 years now. It was probably just another situation of "we have more time, who are easy additions?", and she got the green light.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sshh, just accept BK the hedgehog.

...
Shadow Lancelot? Not gonna lie that'd be a hella hype alt costume for Shadow

 

[osby]

I'd imagine Daisy started off as a costume given she's been one for 17 years now. It was probably just another situation of "we have more time, who are easy additions?", and she got the green light.

The thing is, as far as we know, this kind of situation only happens when developers have extra time in their hands. I think echo Daisy was in the project plan.

 

[Shyy_Guy595]

I love how, prior to Ridley's reveal, K. Rool would've undoubtedly been almost everyone's top pick for a newcomer and would've likely been labeled as more likely yet now, we have him as somewhat of a fever dream to some members.

I do think Dixie is more likely, I'm just honestly perplexed at the sudden amount of detractors for K. Rool. I'm aware he had the relevancy debate going for a while, but I can't help but feel it's a bit redundant at this point. It's almost as bad as the "too big" meme that got lots of people to lose hope in Ridley.

 

[Idon]

I don't like the idea of Ninten. At all. It causes a single problem, how do you differentiate him from Ness? "Well he'd be an Echo fighter so he'd be-" Nonononono! Visually! Adding Ninten means 2 players can have the same looking anime boy with a cap on the wrong way and a blue/yellow striped shirt. Wouldn't that end up confusing people playing on a smaller screen or in portable mode or some ****?

Sonic, Pacman, and Cloud already have that issue with their colors so that's clearly not the biggest issue.

And for Ninten, ir's really as simple as giving Ninten different clothing colors than Ness. There's plenty of fanart out there that give him a different enough look.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

So I went and Updated my roster for the first time since news dropped. The layout itself is also a bit of a prediction. Just imagine the top and bottom row is more centred
View attachment 149903

Bandana Dee: Fan Favourite (both within the Smash and Kirby fan base), Recurring, likely easy to create, uses a weapon not seen in Smash. 4th core member of his franchise

King K Rool: I imagine his extreme populararity will help a lot, and despite his absence he's still important to his series.

Simon Belmont: Konami is involved again and we know we're getting more than just Meta Gear it feels like an obvious choice even without leaks, especially when Bomberman is deconfirmed

Rex & Pyra: I was this >< close to leaving them off the roster, but a last minute decision I put them back on. The game was in development since 2014 and with the game does seem to have a different development structure with it using the Wii U version as a base so maybe there's room for a late addition so either way, I'm not going to give up hope just yet

Chorus Kids: There was evidence that they were planed for the previous games but probably left out for 3DS reasons or lack of development time. I did want to include another moderm franchise outside of Splatoon so I feel like something from Rhythm Heaven is a good guess

Skull Kid: don't get me started, you'll regret it

Excitebiker: I'm not as convinced that we're getting a retro character as I normally am, but if we get one I think it's Excitebiker. It's just a very iconic figure of the NES and even got a stage in Mario Kart. Definitely see it happening

Isabelle: She's not an echo, but not necessarily unique. I was hesitant to put her here, but she is basically the icon of Animal Crossing at this point so I definitely see them trying to find a way to include her as playable. Then again they opted against BOTW Zelda because "she's more into research" so maybe I'm off putting her here. But I'll stick with her for now


Echoes (put at the end, but ordered based on the originals inclusion on the roster)

Dark Samus: No Assist Trophy yet, No Samus colour and Ridley getting a unique victory that isn't his signature tune for some reason. A victory tune that would be perfect for Dark Samus, perhaps more so than Ridley

Impa: A popular choice, easy. Despite the image on the roster I actually think it's going to be SS Impa.

Octoling: The way I see it, if Roy could get in Melee, then I reckon the same could here. There's been evidence Octolings were going to be playable for a long time, and this is the year of the Octolings (lol)

My only complaints are:

(dontblockme)

Impa, Octoling, Skull Kid.

I think Zelda is fine how it is and Octoling is purely DLC. An echo/clone of a newcomer doesn't sound likely.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Anyone?

For the sake of not going around in circles, there's not really much to say. I disagree with you on half of your choices, but that's like, my opinion man.

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

I don't like the idea of Ninten. At all. It causes a single problem, how do you differentiate him from Ness? "Well he'd be an Echo fighter so he'd be-" Nonononono! Visually! Adding Ninten means 2 players can have the same looking anime boy with a cap on the wrong way and a blue/yellow striped shirt. Wouldn't that end up confusing people playing on a smaller screen or in portable mode or some ****?

I mean, he has a scarf so...

If the scarf is the main focus of his character model and covers most of the shirt, that's all you'd really need... I guess.

 

[Fenriraga]

I'd imagine Daisy started off as a costume given she's been one for 17 years now. It was probably just another situation of "we have more time, who are easy additions?", and she got the green light.

It's different this time. They've never gone out of their way to not only address and properly name "clones", but present it as a feature, going so far as to reveal a new fighter for it. I'm sure some echos will fall under this category, but this seems to be a case of them planning something with them from the start.

 

[Lisbon Mapping]

So I went and Updated my roster for the first time since news dropped.

I don't like the way you organised the list but your newcomer selection is pretty good. I don't agree with excitebiker or Impa being a Shiek echo, though

 

[Starbound]

The thing is, as far as we know, this kind of situation only happens when developers have extra time in their hands. I think echo Daisy was in the project plan.

I feel like if echoes were already decided as part of the project plan, we're probably getting a lot of them as the project plan focuses on the highlights.

If they're afterthought additions like Melee and Smash 4, they provide alternative options if time is running out (such as adding the six clones in Melee instead of one unique character, or the three Smash 4 clones instead of someone like Mewtwo in the base game).

I guess we'll never know what the time crunch looked like until post-release interviews.

 

[Idon]

Anyone?

Your first mistake was assuming I'd read all that.

Your second mistake was assuming I have enough strong opinions to discuss any of them.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't agree with excitebiker or Impa being a Shiek echo, though

But who doesn't want Excitbike Guy as a Sheik clone?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Never played Splatoon but do an Inkling and an Octoling even differ from each other enough to warrant an echo?

 

[Makai Wars]

Octoling should not be an Echo Fighter. Octoling should have it's own dedicated slot with a new moveset different from the Inkling. They would obviously share the same Ink mechanic, but everything from their weapons to their normals should be totally different. Brella, Charger, Splatling, Dualies, Splatoon has a huge wealth of varied weapons and the current Inkling only scratches the surface of a what Splatoon fighter in Smash can do.

If we can get 6 FE fighters we can get 2 unique Splatoon fighters.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Actually, it seems it was near finalized during DLC.

Kind of nuts really.

Eh, I wouldn't say so. The Smash Ballot gave them an avalanche of data and, if being on here for 12 years has taught me anything, there's a long list of characters that have managed to remain popular year after year with some being requested as far back as Melee like K. Rool and Geno. The only fanbases that really seem to implode are the ones that weren't that popular in the first place. Most of the popular requests usually stay relevant too which is why characters like Toad, Dixie, Ashley, Bandana Dee, etc will probably stay popular until they get in or the unlikely event that their franchise outright dies.

 

[splat]

Showerthought: you know how at the end of each match, you can get an overview of the characters you killed and which killed you, displaying them in proper order?

In Ultimate, you can kill some Assist Trophies and get a point for them. So will those be displayed in the kill count, too? If so, we will get tons more of those glorious new stock icons.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Never played Splatoon but do an Inkling and an Octoling even differ from each other enough to warrant an echo?

Arguably Octolings can use Splatoon 2 stuff as Inklings only use Splatoon 1 stuff. Though theoretically they can just be Echoes

 

[Idon]

Never played Splatoon but do an Inkling and an Octoling even differ from each other enough to warrant an echo?

Well they're basically alternate costumes for Inklings in their own games.

However, you could give them octarian-brand weapons if you wanted to differentiate them.

 

[Starbound]

Never played Splatoon but do an Inkling and an Octoling even differ from each other enough to warrant an echo?

Octoling is basically a skin in Splatoon 2.

The differences would have to come in terms of weapons (like the Octoling could have a different bomb, like the Burst Bomb which explodes on contact instead of the Splat Bomb's delayed explosion). It could also have a different special weapon be its Final Smash.

 

[Slavic]

I don't like the idea of Ninten. At all. It causes a single problem, how do you differentiate him from Ness? "Well he'd be an Echo fighter so he'd be-" Nonononono! Visually! Adding Ninten means 2 players can have the same looking anime boy with a cap on the wrong way and a blue/yellow striped shirt. Wouldn't that end up confusing people playing on a smaller screen or in portable mode or some ****?

Well according to how they handled Ike you can just voice Ness and Ninten slightly differently and it'll be A-OK

 

[Shroob]

I'm actually surprised everyone's jumping onto the thought train of "We're getting a ton of echo fighters".



I really doubt there's that many more.

"But Sakurai made up the term, why would he---"


Maybe he just wants to differentiate semi-clones from 1:1 clones officially? I mean, let's be frank, (debatably), , WERE Echo Fighters in Smash 4, we just didn't have the fancy new name for them. And there were only 3, not like, 5 more like soo many people predict.


I'm keeping my echos low.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I just thought of something. If they bring back the codec calls from Brawl they would have to change Link's if they want to be accurate.

Because Link no longer uses the Clawshot. Though I suppose they could just edit the audio so he doesn't saw "Clawshot".

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I just thought of something. If they bring back the codec calls from Brawl they would have to change Link's if they want to be accurate.View attachment 149950 Because Link no longer uses the Clawshot. Though I suppose they could just edit the audio so he doesn't saw "Clawshot".

I'm sure they're gonna redo them. Listen to the audio, it doesn't sound natural for Otacon to stop before "and a Clawshot".

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

Well according to how they handled Ike you can just voice Ness and Ninten slightly differently and it'll be A-OK

Tbf, PoR Ike and Radiant Dawn Ike are alternate costumes, not echoes.

 

[osby]

Octoling should not be an Echo Fighter. Octoling should have it's own dedicated slot with a new moveset different from the Inkling. They would obviously share the same Ink mechanic, but everything from their weapons to their normals should be totally different. Brella, Charger, Splatling, Dualies, Splatoon has a huge wealth of varied weapons and the current Inkling only scratches the surface of a what Splatoon fighter in Smash can do.

If we can get 6 FE fighters we can get 2 unique Splatoon fighters.

How that comparison even works? You want two fighters to have different movesets completely while sharing the same unusual mechanic because another franchise have four different fighters, a semi-clone and an echo?

 

[Will]

I just thought of something. If they bring back the codec calls from Brawl they would have to change Link's if they want to be accurate.View attachment 149950 Because Link no longer uses the Clawshot. Though I suppose they could just edit the audio so he doesn't saw "Clawshot".

Ahem.

However, some of them are outdated. Bowser's regarded as slow (he kinda is but kinda isnt?) and Link having a clawshot. I guess they have to either redo em or just fix some specific lines.

Snake's Codec has to be changed too since Colonel's JP VA died, plus Link's clawshot comment is now invalid.

 

[Idon]

Tbf, PoR Ike and Radiant Dawn Ike are alternate costumes, not echoes.

Also, RD Ike is BUUUUUUUUFF

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Ahem.

I don't see why they have to completely remove Colonel from the codec calls. They could keep his old calls that still fit, and have all the new calls be done by different characters.

Now watch Sakurai not and any new ones for whatever reason.