Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Arcadenik]

It's not guaranteed that we'll get a new Pokemon rep. Pokemon is fine with the reps it has now.

"Pokémon is fine with the reps it has now" is completely subjective.

Seriously, why is Pokémon "fine" with the "reps" it has now?

 

[Pakky]

It's not guaranteed that we'll get a new Pokemon rep. Pokemon is fine with the reps it has now.

Pokemon Company wants money and advertising.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay, then just don't respond. There's no rule that states that you need to respond to everything that anybody says about a certain topic.

If it get's annoying, just ignore him and move on with your day. Nothing you say, nor him, will decide who (if anybody else) is getting into the roster, so all the back and forward is pretty much moot at this point. We just have to wait and see now

Eh, fine. Sorry for overreacting.

 

[IsmaR]

Idk the ds stages so idk. I dont have much faith in the community to make reasonable stage decisions. Id love for some of the nontraditional layouts (such as dream dreams gaps) be legal. Otherwise you just end up with a very similar layout over a bunch of stages. Also we have to turn the hazard button on for pokemon stadium. Imo. Ps2 can be a nuetral ler ps1 stay traditional. If melee players can do it smash ult players cam as well.

The problem being that almost every Melee (and Brawl/PM) player would tell you if they had the option to turn transformations off for PS1, they would do so in a heartbeat.

I can agree with enjoying variety, but we've never had this much freedom before. It's going to take much more trial and error this time around to find out what sticks.

 

[Murlough]

I just hope people are prepared if there isn't a new Pokemon this game. Obviously, I want one but we got Pichu, Ivysaur, and Squirtle back. Idk I might be psyching myself out but it just feels like if there ever was a game they skip a Gen its this one.

 

[Galgatha]

The problem being that almost every Melee (and Brawl/PM) player would tell you if they had the option to turn transformations off for PS1, they would do so in a heartbeat.

I can agree with enjoying variety, but we've never had this much freedom before. It's going to take much more trial and error this time around to find out what sticks.

I don't think too much is needed. With the stage hazard toggle now, we can turn off stage hazards. Given what we were shown at E3, we have a rough idea of what the stage hazard toggle will actually turn off (stage transformations, damaging hazards, breakable portions of the stage).

I think the list I gave is pretty good, given the confirmed stages that we currently have.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know if this was already brought up, but I'm pretty sure Zeraora's chances are dead due to the timing of the project plan.
Not that I really had much faith in it to begin with, but it's worth mentioning nonethelss.
((thank god))

 

[CaptainAmerica]

The stage hazard switch sounds really cool, but I’m interested in seeing exactly what it turns off per stage. Obviously that’s not possible yet, but I’d like to see it.

Like will we still get moving platforms? Wily’s castle would have been loads of fun without that yellow blob, but I liked the platforms.

But just the sheer number of stages is mind-boggling. I’d love if every character could get a unique ‘home stage’ for fighting against them in Classic or All-Star mode.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

To be fair though, Nintendo themselves likes to forget DK64 even happened outside of the DK Rap.

The rap is all that matters from the game anyways

 

[Ze Diglett]

I'm curious how Port Town Aero Dive is gonna work without stage hazards. I mean, they're basically omnipresent throughout the stage, so I'm wondering what the Hazard Toggle is gonna do about that...?
That said, a hazardless Port Town Aero Dive is one of the things I'm most excited for this game. I love Port Town, both aesthetically and in terms of musical choice, but previously, its hazards have just made it annoying to the point of being unplayable, even to a filthy casual such as myself. I'm glad I'll be able to choose this stage now without my friends railing on me for it.

 

[Opossum]

The stage hazard switch sounds really cool, but I’m interested in seeing exactly what it turns off per stage. Obviously that’s not possible yet, but I’d like to see it.

Like will we still get moving platforms? Wily’s castle would have been loads of fun without that yellow blob, but I liked the platforms.

But just the sheer number of stages is mind-boggling. I’d love if every character could get a unique ‘home stage’ for fighting against them in Classic or All-Star mode.

Well, except for poor R.O.B.

Add a Gyromite stage, you cowards.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To be fair though, Nintendo themselves likes to forget DK64 even happened outside of the DKrap.

Chunky Kong never has appeared since, and the only times Lanky and Tiny have ever shown up again is in that racing game no one played.

It's almost like Lanky Kong and Chunky Kong never existed if the DK Rap is still cutting the Lanky and Chunky segments. Cutting those segments basically makes the DK Rap not very tolerable to listen to.

 

[papagenos]

I just hope people are prepared if there isn't a new Pokemon this game. Obviously, I want one but we got Pichu, Ivysaur, and Squirtle back. Idk I might be psyching myself out but it just feels like if there ever was a game they skip a Gen its this one.

I kind of wont be surprised either way. There arent many newcomers left supposedly and if we dont get a new pokemon (at least until DLC) everyone will say "of course we didnt we got 3 added back in!" . conversely i can see us getting a new pokemon and everyone saying "well pokemon HAS to get a newcomer everytime, its such a popular series it sells games just to add a new one!"... really unsure what will happen here and either seems like the obvious answer.

 

[Chandeelure]

Bewear was disconfirmed, so there are no more Pokemon options left.

Sorry, guys.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Well, except for poor R.O.B.

Add a Gyromite stage, you cowards.

Hey, at least Port Town Aero Dive has a R.O.B. model on it! That counts for something... right??
My boy needs a home...

 

[CaptainAmerica]

To be fair though, Nintendo themselves likes to forget DK64 even happened outside of the DKrap.

Chunky Kong never has appeared since, and the only times Lanky and Tiny have ever shown up again is in that racing game no one played.

I liked DK64. That was my first N64 game and I finally came back and beat it a month ago.

Yeah, I’m a terrible K. Rool fan. Better than me as a Ridley fan though - I’ve never played a Metroid game.

Still, the three partner Kongs were each awesome, and I’d like to see them back. Except Tiny needs her old design back; this new one is WTF. And Lanky’d be a wonderful guest character in ARMS lol.

On the rap though, are we getting the full song back?

 

[Galgatha]

The stage hazard switch sounds really cool, but I’m interested in seeing exactly what it turns off per stage. Obviously that’s not possible yet, but I’d like to see it.

Like will we still get moving platforms? Wily’s castle would have been loads of fun without that yellow blob, but I liked the platforms.

But just the sheer number of stages is mind-boggling. I’d love if every character could get a unique ‘home stage’ for fighting against them in Classic or All-Star mode.

Well, judging by what we saw at E3, we can assume a few things.

1) Stage Hazard Toggle, when off, turns of harmful stage hazards (as seen at Wily Castle and no more yellow devil)
2) Turns off stage changes (as seen at Wily Castle with no additonal platforms and ZeRo vs MKLeo on Frigate Orpheon
and 3) Turns off breakable portions of stages; making them disappear or simply non-breakable (See ZeRo vs Leffen on Skyworld)
4) Removes moving platforms (As seen by ZeRo vs Leffen on Skyworld: there is no moving platform underneath the stage)

So I am guessing that with the stage hazard turned off, there will be no stage changes or transformations, meaning that all stages stay in their initial layout when the match starts, there are no breakable or moving platforms/portions of the stage, and there are no more harmful stage hazards.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Pokémon is fine as is, but it wouldn't be crazy for it to get a newcomer either, because of just how big it is and that it's not a series with a stable cast of characters it doesn't really play by the normal rules. Like, you can't say that there are any big glaring omissions imo, regardless of your own personal favorites in the series I feel like the absolutely most popular Pokémon throughout the history of the franchise are accounted for, but it's also so incredibly big of a franchise that you can't really berate them for including stuff from the newest games either.

The only scenario where I'd call their treatment of it into question is if it gets two newcomers, that on top of all the returning veterans is when it'd be too much. If it gets one newcomers that's absolutely fine, and if it gets none then that's fine aswell.

 

[Opossum]

Hey, at least Port Town Aero Dive has a R.O.B. model on it! That counts for something... right??
My boy needs a home...

This is just kind of an aside, but up until only two or so years ago, I thought the name of the stage was Port Town Aero Drive. I guess since F-Zero is a racing game my mind filled in a blank that wasn't there.

Then when I realized it was in fact Dive, I was so taken aback, haha.

 

[Pakky]

I liked DK64. That was my first N64 game and I finally came back and beat it a month ago.

Yeah, I’m a terrible K. Rool fan. Better than me as a Ridley fan though - I’ve never played a Metroid game.

Still, the three partner Kongs were each awesome, and I’d like to see them back. Except Tiny needs her old design back; this new one is WTF. And Lanky’d be a wonderful guest character in ARMS lol.

On the rap though, are we getting the full song back?

I like the new one...

Lanky is the origin of ARMs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I'm curious how Port Town Aero Dive is gonna work without stage hazards. I mean, they're basically omnipresent throughout the stage, so I'm wondering what the Hazard Toggle is gonna do about that...?
That said, a hazardless Port Town Aero Dive is one of the things I'm most excited for this game. I love Port Town, both aesthetically and in terms of musical choice, but previously, its hazards have just made it annoying to the point of being unplayable, even to a filthy casual such as myself. I'm glad I'll be able to choose this stage now without my friends railing on me for it.

My best guess is that the F-Zero Racers won't appear at all if you turn off Port Town Aero Dive's stage hazards. However, the race track would still damage you if you're not on the moving platform.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

This is just kind of an aside, but up until only two or so years ago, I thought the name of the stage was Port Town Aero Drive. I guess since F-Zero is a racing game my mind filled in a blank that wasn't there.

Then when I realized it was in fact Dive, I was so taken aback, haha.

Wait, what?

*checks*

Uhh...my life is a lie...

 

[UserKev]

As far as unlocking characters, its a feature that needs to be brought back because Smash properly established it and it'd be just one of the only few games you'd have to deal with it anyway. Maybe it doesn't need to be at the lengths of Melee but let it ultimately echo the simplicity of Super Smash 64 with some Melee twists.

50 matches of Special Smash for Mewtwo
Clear Adventure Mode on Hard with Samus for Ridley
Clear Classic Mode on Very Hard for Cloud

etc, you get the idea.

 

[Bowserlick]

Pokemon games are such a huge hit. Expectations are that Smash gets a pokemon in per game.

I would be pretty shocked if there was no pokemon newcomer.

 

[osby]

Codecs completed:

57+ remain.

Tomorrow's preview:

Snake: Looks like someone got quite a nose job compared to the last time I saw him.

Next up:

They were cool. Are you archive these on somewhere?

 

[Chandeelure]

This is just kind of an aside, but up until only two or so years ago, I thought the name of the stage was Port Town Aero Drive. I guess since F-Zero is a racing game my mind filled in a blank that wasn't there.

Then when I realized it was in fact Dive, I was so taken aback, haha.

English is not my first language, but I still think it's weird how Falcon's and Ganondorf's recovery moves have the word "Dive" in them.
Like, isn't diving the thing you do when you go down and not up?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

"Pokémon is fine with the reps it has now" is completely subjective.

Seriously, why is Pokémon "fine" with the "reps" it has now?

People can't even make up a compelling reason against a Pokemon newcomer.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Well, except for poor R.O.B.

Add a Gyromite stage, you cowards.

This is what happen when you are the last of your kind.

...








Please Sakurai, give ROB a new home.

 

[IsmaR]

I don't think too much is needed. With the stage hazard toggle now, we can turn off stage hazards. Given what we were shown at E3, we have a rough idea of what the stage hazard toggle will actually turn off (stage transformations, damaging hazards, breakable portions of the stage).

I think the list I gave is pretty good, given the confirmed stages that we currently have.

The issue even with a ton of viable stages will then become there being too many viable stages (striking will take forever/become a nightmare).

The idea of what was neutral in the past may very well become counterpick (As an example, FD itself was mentioned during the Treehouse as being more advantageous for characters like Little Mac, therefore not really "neutral") or even flat out banned (vanilla PS1 as I brought up, and Lylat if there really is an option to turn off the stage tilting).

Then more stages become niche when you take things like doubles into consideration. Some stages that are too big (Pyrosphere ironically) might see some occasional use there.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Where is this Pokemon is fine thing coming from? Everyone was certain we'd get a new Pokemon rep and now just because we got Pichu and Pokemon Trainer back it's unlikely?

Too many reps is not a valid arguement because we have no idea if that's how Sakurai looks at series, especially ones as big as Mario, Zelda and Pokemon.

I think it's also intresting to point out that Pokemon is the only majorly represented series that doesn't have more than 1 clone, semi or echo. So I'm absolutely fine with getting more Pokemon representation, and based on past patterns and the fact that Pokemon is popular and full of new and exciting characters, I think it's pretty likely.

If it doesn't happened I'd be bummed, but also very surprised.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Pokemon games are such a huge hit. Expectations are that Smash gets a pokemon in per game.

I would be pretty shocked if there was no pokemon newcomer.

While that is true they did add Squirtle, Ivysaur and Pichu, I could understand them skipping over a new pokemon because of that, that's a lot of completely unique pokemon being added to this game

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This is what happen when you are the last of your kind.

...








Please Sakurai, give ROB a new home.

In a way, Wrecking Crew is sort of like a temporary home for R.O.B., since the Gyromite BGM can potentially play on that stage.

 

[Wyoming]

Maybe GameFreak prefer to wait for Gen 8 as DLC? Food for thought.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

*Pre-Smash 4 speculation flashback*

"We're not getting a Gen 6 newcomer Pokemon, + does a more than adequate job of representing X and Y"

*An X and Y newcomer character ends up being in for the sake of having an X and Y Pokemon playable*

 

[Galgatha]

The issue even with a ton of viable stages will then become there being too many viable stages (striking will take forever/become a nightmare).

The idea of what was neutral in the past may very well become counterpick (As an example, FD itself was mentioned during the Treehouse as being more advantageous for characters like Little Mac, therefore not really "neutral") or even flat out banned (vanilla PS1 as I brought up, and Lylat if there really is an option to turn off the stage tilting).

Then more stages become niche when you take things like doubles into consideration. Some stages that are too big (Pyrosphere ironically) might see some occasional use there.

Get rid of stage striking. Replace it. We have a ton of options here given how radically different Ultimate is from Smash 4.

1) Stage hazzard toggle
2) Stage is chosen BEFORE you choose a character.

Remove stage striking and replace it with random stage selector + ban as I mentioned in my post a few pages back. I will edit this as I copy and paste that solution here.

Stage striking is outdated and boring anyway, and no longer fits with what we have been given in Smash Ultimate.

EDIT:
With random stage pick + ban, the rounds at a tournament would go as followed. All illegal stages are turned off from the random stage switch, stage hazard is toggled off. Match 1, Players open up the random stage switch and each pick 1 legal stage to turn off (banning that stage), close random stage switch, and select random. Random legal stage is selected, players chose their fighters and start. Match 2, Players open up the stage switch again, winner selects 1 legal stage to turn off (aka ban), loser selects 2 legal stages to turn off (same rules apply in the event of a 3rd match), select random to chose a stage, chose their fighters and start.

In a typical best of 3 set, out of the 23 legal stages, either 5 stages will be banned (match ends 2-0) or 8 (match ends 2-1). Following the same rules above, in a best of 5 Grand Finals, either 8 stages will be banned (3-0) 11 stages (3-1) or 14 stages (3-2), leaving at minimum a whopping 9 stages still legal come the final match of a tournament. Current rule set in Smash 4, we only have 6 legal stages period. This is a very nice jump in legal stages.

Also, unlike how the stages reset in a current Smash 4 tournament set (after each match, players re-stage strike which often means they just re-strike the same stages over and over), each ban is permanent for the duration of that set. So, for instance, say player 2 bans Town and City during that banning process of game 1. Town and City would remain off for the rest of their set. This adds more weight to their ban choices.

Of course the random stage switch would be reset after each set, once again having all 23 legal stages toggled on and all illegal stages toggled off.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe GameFreak prefer to wait for Gen 8 as DLC? Food for thought.

Gen 7 is the franchise's 20th anniversary game.
Why would they?

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

Because Nintendo SPD1 (formerly R&D1) are responsible for creating Wario and are still to this day making games for his series. Waluigi was a character made up by Camelot, a completely unrelated developer, for their own games as Wario's partner.

They don't want to use Waluigi, he's not their character. Jimmy T is, effectively, Wario's best friend canonically.

Wow thanks that actually makes sense now. Sorry Waluigi fans looks like you guys are gonna have to Wah.

 

[Curious Villager]

If It's any consolation. Pokemon Trainer is apparently counted as one character despite being counted as three in the past. At least on the official website. Perhaps they may use that as an excuse to sneak in one more character...

Eitherway, if we don't get a Pokemon newcomer for the base game, I can see one coming along for DLC, probably to promote gen 8 or something...

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Well, except for poor R.O.B.

Add a Gyromite stage, you cowards.

Or bring back Mario Bros......................................

 

[Wyoming]

Gen 7 is the franchise's 20th anniversary game.
Why would they?

Well Gen 7 is old news for them on a system they won't be making anymore games on. They tend to add characters for promotion/marketing. A Gen 8 DLC character makes sense particularly since the DLC cycle will begin in 2019, the same year Gen 8 is coming out.

It's certainly a possibility. It might be another gen 3/5 situation.

edit: or we could get both of course, lol