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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


Results are only viewable after voting.
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Arcadenik

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You know... since this is Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.... and we are getting all the characters and possibly all the stages... what if we got all (or at least some) the trophies from the past Smash games, including both Wii U and 3DS versions?

It would be nice to see Daisy and Pit trophies from Melee and it could be titled "Daisy (Super Mario Land)" and "Pit (Kid Icarus)" since that's how Daisy and Pit looked in their debut games. And I want to see that Meowth's Party trophy in glorious HD.
1529584280766.png
 

WaddleMatt

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Lots of character are looking quite buffed this game, this is personally what I am most excited to see right now.
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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Oh I just remembered

That interview the source that source gaming translated

I need to remind everybody first or final proposal it still proves the ballot characters were likely chosen as the base roster newcomers either way

Simply because the roster was finalized back in 2016 the interview furthers that evidence it's ballot over promotion this time around
 
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Jetsurge

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Oh I just remembered

That interview the source that source gaming translated

I need to remind everybody first or final roster it still proves the ballot haracter were chosen as the base roster newcomers either way

Simply because the roster was finalized back in 2016 the interview furthers that evidence it's ballot over promotion this time around
King K. Rool is just getting more and more likely every day!
 

Galgatha

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Honestly I think unlocking characters will be fun. I enjoy it. I don't understand why people b**ch and moan about it really, and then continue to unlock the characters anyway.

As long as we don't need to leave the game on forever to unlock Mewtwo like we did in Melee, then I am all set.

I will probably just either choose Pikachu, or rock random until I get Falco and Bowser Jr unlocked. After that I am all set to go get everybody else :p
 

Spinosaurus

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I really hope we aren't gonna try to predict the results of a ballot with 2 million voters now, like how we all predicted Bayonetta.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Oh I just remembered

That interview the source that source gaming translated

I need to remind everybody first or final roster it still proves the ballot haracter were chosen as the base roster newcomers either way

Simply because the roster was finalized back in 2016 the interview furthers that evidence it's ballot over promotion this time around
Regardless, when it comes to recency...

what’s popular around the time when I begin designing the game is important.
Not what's recent two years later. That being said, I'd still expect a Gen 7 Pokemon to get the Greninja treatment.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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You know... since this is Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.... and we are getting all the characters and possibly all the stages... what if we got all (or at least some) the trophies from the past Smash games, including both Wii U and 3DS versions?

It would be nice to see Daisy and Pit trophies from Melee and it could be titled "Daisy (Super Mario Land)" and "Pit (Kid Icarus)" since that's how Daisy and Pit looked in their debut games. And I want to see that Meowth's Party trophy in glorious HD.
View attachment 149386
I don’t wanna see ugly:ultpit:and satanic:ultdaisy:
 

Galgatha

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I actually have a pretty cool idea when it comes to legal stages and moving forward with Ultimate for tournaments and all the changes we have seen. I would appreciate some sort of feedback on this if at all possible. Sorry for the length XD I went into details on some things.

So, I decided to try and do a break down of what stages I could possibly see being made legal given that we now have the Stage Hazard Toggle, Stages are chosen before choosing your fighter, and how the random stage + ban would work for tournaments IMO. (Similar stages I have grouped together due to the lack of gameplay difference between them)

First, from what we know about how the Hazard toggle will effect stages, and what we assume. We know that the toggle will turn off stage changes (As shown with the ZeRo vs MKLeo fight on Frigate Orpheon where it never flipped), turn off hazards (as shown on Willy Castle and no platforms or yellow devil), and turns off breakables (as shown on Skyworld with ZeRo vs Leffen). With this information, we can assume that means that 1) Stages that transition or change will probably stay in their initial layout even while traveling, 2) Annoying stage hazards like Jungle Japes rushing water or perhaps Norfair's lava will be turned off and disappear, 3) Some stages with breakable platforms now create permanent Caves of Life like Skyworld or Luigi's Mansion.

So, keeping this in mind, on to the list of possible legal stages from what we know so far:

Battlefield (Including Miiverse, Midgar, Yoshi's Story)
Final Destination (Possibly including Arena Ferox and Willy Caslte [unsure if walls will disqualify])
Dreamland
Yoshi's Island [64] (If Stage Hazard removes the lingering clouds, or makes them untouchable)
Brinstar [Melee] (Assuming no acid and no breakable parts of the stage)
Green Greens [Melee] (Assuming no breakable blocks drop, leaving gaps between the platforms)
Jungle Japes [Melee] (Assuming no rushing water or random fish underneath platforms) *Yay, my favorite pasttime stage could be tournament legal!*
Pokemon Stadium [both 1 & 2]
Castle Siege [Brawl]
Frigate Orpheon [Brawl]
Lylat Cruise [Brawl] (Please let there be no tilting!)
Norfair [Brawl]
Smashville [Brawl]
Warioware Inc [Brawl] (Assuming that no mini-games don't appear)
Yoshi's Island [Brawl] (Assuming platform clouds don't appear)
Find Mii [3ds] (Assuming the Dark Emperor never shows up)
Reset Bomb Forrest [3ds]
Unova Pokemon League [3ds]
Kalos Pokemon League [Wii u]
Mushroom Kingdom U [Wii u]
Town and City [Wii u]
Wuhu island [Wii u]
Skyloft [Wii u]

*Would be legal if they are confirmed*
Delfino Plaza [Brawl}
Fountain of Dreams [Melee]
Rainbow Road [3ds]
Jungle Hijinxs [Wii u]
Pyrosphere [Wii u]

That gives us an amazing 23 legal stages for Ultimate (Not counting similar gameplay stages like Midgar from Battlefield, they are grouped as 1 stage)! I did not include stages like Halberd that used to be legal due to the toggle switch. Assuming the stages stay as they initially start, Halberd would have walk-offs. I also did not include Magicant because, as others have stated, it is highly unlikely that the toggle would remove the very bottom platform, which could cause for easy camping.

This also doesn't include the Omega and Battlefield versions of stages since that is just an insane amount now.

With random stage pick + ban, the rounds at a tournament would go as followed. All illegal stages are turned off from the random stage switch, stage hazard is toggled off. Match 1, Players open up the random stage switch and each pick 1 legal stage to turn off (banning that stage), close random stage switch, and select random. Random legal stage is selected, players chose their fighters and start. Match 2, Players open up the stage switch again, winner selects 1 legal stage to turn off (aka ban), loser selects 2 legal stages to turn off (same rules apply in the event of a 3rd match), select random to chose a stage, chose their fighters and start.

In a typical best of 3 set, out of the 23 legal stages, either 5 stages will be banned (match ends 2-0) or 8 (match ends 2-1). Following the same rules above, in a best of 5 Grand Finals, either 8 stages will be banned (3-0) 11 stages (3-1) or 14 stages (3-2), leaving at minimum a whopping 9 stages still legal come the final match of a tournament. Current rule set in Smash 4, we only have 6 legal stages period. This is a very nice jump in legal stages.

Also, unlike how the stages reset in a current Smash 4 tournament set (after each match, players re-stage strike which often means they just re-strike the same stages over and over), each ban is permanent for the duration of that set. So, for instance, say player 2 bans Town and City during that banning process of game 1. Town and City would remain off for the rest of their set. This adds more weight to their ban choices.

Of course the random stage switch would be reset after each set, once again having all 23 legal stages toggled on and all illegal stages toggled off.
I am open to suggestions, but I feel like this is a good formula. It greatly increases the amount of tournament legal stages, decreases the time between matches in a set (a quick ban instead of stage striking) while still giving players some sense of control on where they don't want to fight, and it provides the flair of stages being randomly chosen each match.
 

Pakky

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Regardless, when it comes to recency...



Not what's recent two years later. That being said, I'd still expect a Gen 7 Pokemon to get the Greninja treatment.
Mimikyu! Let's go Pikaboo!

Though really based on the promotional stuff from Pokemon Company and the project plan for Smash.

It really is going to be Mimikyu or Incenaroar anyone else would be a surprise but they wouldn't make sense.
 

Phaazoid

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So, new game guys - Assuming the next character reveal is just going to get dropped on smashbros.com some day out of the blue, what day do you guys think that will be?

My guess - July 12th. Just a random Thursday, about a month after E3, haha. What do you guys think?
 

Ashuree

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Messages
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So, new game guys - Assuming the next character reveal is just going to get dropped on smashbros.com some day out of the blue, what day do you guys think that will be?

My guess - July 12th. Just a random Thursday, about a month after E3, haha. What do you guys think?
Sometime before Warioware gold drops, I think they'll show off Some of the missing Warioware stuff, like the Kat and Ana Assist trophy, The "Gamer" stage from smash 4 that's missing, and hopefully a trailer for newcomer Ashley (Spot my bias lol), along with a Mona assist trophy to take over for Ashley.
 
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KingBroly

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If they're going in order number-wise, shouldn't new Echo Fighters show up along the way?
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Mimikyu! Let's go Pikaboo!

Though really based on the promotional stuff from Pokemon Company and the project plan for Smash.

It really is going to be Mimikyu or Incenaroar anyone else would be a surprise but they wouldn't make sense.
I think it's safe to add Decidueye to that list as well, because it's very possible Sakurai was provided concept art again and Decidueye's is very unique. But yea anyone other than Mimikyu, Incenaroar or Decidueye would surprise me. (Well...at this point with as much support as Lycanroc get's it wouldn't surprise me because of echo chambers. But I'd be disappointed)
So, new game guys - Assuming the next character reveal is just going to get dropped on smashbros.com some day out of the blue, what day do you guys think that will be?

My guess - July 12th. Just a random Thursday, about a month after E3, haha. What do you guys think?
I'd say sometime mid July makes sense....maybe if this three a week fighter thing is right it will be after we go through the original 12? Which could either line up with July 12th or the week after depending on how they do it.

IF we do get a newcomer revealed via a regular nonchalant fighter of the day post, I'm almost positive it would be an echo fighter. Which I am totally ok with!

If they're going in order number-wise, shouldn't new Echo Fighters show up along the way?
They currently aren't going in order right now though, they skipped over Donkey Kong. But if they get back to going in order then yea that would be interesting! Like here's Shiek and then tomorrow here's Impa!
 
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monadoboy

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So, new game guys - Assuming the next character reveal is just going to get dropped on smashbros.com some day out of the blue, what day do you guys think that will be?

My guess - July 12th. Just a random Thursday, about a month after E3, haha. What do you guys think?
Really hard to guess, but maybe they could drop an Echo for a game release like they dropped veterans for releases in the Miiverse PotD
 
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Staarih

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So, new game guys - Assuming the next character reveal is just going to get dropped on smashbros.com some day out of the blue, what day do you guys think that will be?

My guess - July 12th. Just a random Thursday, about a month after E3, haha. What do you guys think?
I lowkey want a new fighter per month until release... but with "fewer newcomers", I'm thinking we'll get ones in Directs or with Sakurai informing us about dropping a trailer. We could get, like, 2-3 such instances before release? Though they could show more than one newcomer in one.

I don't think they'll just drop one on the website even if they did that with Brawl. Maybe an Echo Fighter, but only if it's based on a character already revealed (and thus they share the same number).
 

Pakky

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I think it's safe to add Decidueye to that list as well, because it's very possible Sakurai was provided concept art again and Decidueye's is very unique. But yea anyone other than Mimikyu, Incenaroar or Decidueye would surprise me. (Well...at think point with as much support as Lycanroc get's it wouldn't surprise me because of echo chambers. But I'd be disappointed)
Decidueye feels like the least likely to me but yeah concept art would be the saving grace here.

Although...



in terms of art the match up is even imo.

Lastly Lycanroc is not going to be Ash's ace, this was clear from the moment we got a Torracat vs Incneroar fight. Torracat is the next Charizard.

This is baseless but I can see Mimikyu being a Team Rocket main stay like Wobbuafett
 
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RileyXY1

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It's not guaranteed that we'll get a new Pokemon rep. Pokemon is fine with the reps it has now.
 

Kairyu24

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It might be overly complex by a long shot, but after actually playing Bayonetta on Switch I wondered if some implentation of the Magic gauge might have balanced her a bit while still allowing her brief ''OP'' moments. Combo's with less exotic KO output, and witch time also having a reduced knockback status, but gaining a Climax mode for finishing off. It's mostly that design been done before with Little Mac, both with having very polarized attributes and the KO punch. It's also ironic that Bayonetta 2 already nerfed stunlocking and especially air juggling outside of Witch Time/Umbran Climax.

Maybe if she's still around next game something in that direction might happen. It's still unknown if the inventational will effect her badly as well.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Messages
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Decidueye feels like the least likely to me but yeah concept art would be the saving grace here.

Although...



in terms of art the match up is even imo.

Lastly Lycanroc is not going to be Ash's ace, this was clear from the moment we got a Torracat vs Incneroar fight. Torracat is the next Charizard.

This is baseless but I can see Mimikyu being a Team Rocket main stay like Wobbuafett
Oh yeah I defintely agree that all of the concept art is great to build a character from. Mimikyu's lacks a little motion like the others have, but Mimikyu's design makes up for that in the fact that it tells a whole story (and I'm sure the Pokemon Company would share that with Sakurai). Lycanroc's is just a wolf lol.

I'm not following the anime much but I was wondering which direction they'd go with Lycanroc and Torracat. I think it's totally possibly Lycanroc was more of Ash's ace through the story but Inceniroar will be his strongest by the end. Once again I don't watch it much, for all we know Poiple could evolve and be his true ace lol.
 

blackghost

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I actually have a pretty cool idea when it comes to legal stages and moving forward with Ultimate for tournaments and all the changes we have seen. I would appreciate some sort of feedback on this if at all possible. Sorry for the length XD I went into details on some things.

So, I decided to try and do a break down of what stages I could possibly see being made legal given that we now have the Stage Hazard Toggle, Stages are chosen before choosing your fighter, and how the random stage + ban would work for tournaments IMO. (Similar stages I have grouped together due to the lack of gameplay difference between them)

First, from what we know about how the Hazard toggle will effect stages, and what we assume. We know that the toggle will turn off stage changes (As shown with the ZeRo vs MKLeo fight on Frigate Orpheon where it never flipped), turn off hazards (as shown on Willy Castle and no platforms or yellow devil), and turns off breakables (as shown on Skyworld with ZeRo vs Leffen). With this information, we can assume that means that 1) Stages that transition or change will probably stay in their initial layout even while traveling, 2) Annoying stage hazards like Jungle Japes rushing water or perhaps Norfair's lava will be turned off and disappear, 3) Some stages with breakable platforms now create permanent Caves of Life like Skyworld or Luigi's Mansion.

So, keeping this in mind, on to the list of possible legal stages from what we know so far:

Battlefield (Including Miiverse, Midgar, Yoshi's Story)
Final Destination (Possibly including Arena Ferox and Willy Caslte [unsure if walls will disqualify])
Dreamland
Yoshi's Island [64] (If Stage Hazard removes the lingering clouds, or makes them untouchable)
Brinstar [Melee] (Assuming no acid and no breakable parts of the stage)
Green Greens [Melee] (Assuming no breakable blocks drop, leaving gaps between the platforms)
Jungle Japes [Melee] (Assuming no rushing water or random fish underneath platforms) *Yay, my favorite pasttime stage could be tournament legal!*
Pokemon Stadium [both 1 & 2]
Castle Siege [Brawl]
Frigate Orpheon [Brawl]
Lylat Cruise [Brawl] (Please let there be no tilting!)
Norfair [Brawl]
Smashville [Brawl]
Warioware Inc [Brawl] (Assuming that no mini-games don't appear)
Yoshi's Island [Brawl] (Assuming platform clouds don't appear)
Find Mii [3ds] (Assuming the Dark Emperor never shows up)
Reset Bomb Forrest [3ds]
Unova Pokemon League [3ds]
Kalos Pokemon League [Wii u]
Mushroom Kingdom U [Wii u]
Town and City [Wii u]
Wuhu island [Wii u]
Skyloft [Wii u]

*Would be legal if they are confirmed*
Delfino Plaza [Brawl}
Fountain of Dreams [Melee]
Rainbow Road [3ds]
Jungle Hijinxs [Wii u]
Pyrosphere [Wii u]

That gives us an amazing 23 legal stages for Ultimate (Not counting similar gameplay stages like Midgar from Battlefield, they are grouped as 1 stage)! I did not include stages like Halberd that used to be legal due to the toggle switch. Assuming the stages stay as they initially start, Halberd would have walk-offs. I also did not include Magicant because, as others have stated, it is highly unlikely that the toggle would remove the very bottom platform, which could cause for easy camping.

This also doesn't include the Omega and Battlefield versions of stages since that is just an insane amount now.

With random stage pick + ban, the rounds at a tournament would go as followed. All illegal stages are turned off from the random stage switch, stage hazard is toggled off. Match 1, Players open up the random stage switch and each pick 1 legal stage to turn off (banning that stage), close random stage switch, and select random. Random legal stage is selected, players chose their fighters and start. Match 2, Players open up the stage switch again, winner selects 1 legal stage to turn off (aka ban), loser selects 2 legal stages to turn off (same rules apply in the event of a 3rd match), select random to chose a stage, chose their fighters and start.

In a typical best of 3 set, out of the 23 legal stages, either 5 stages will be banned (match ends 2-0) or 8 (match ends 2-1). Following the same rules above, in a best of 5 Grand Finals, either 8 stages will be banned (3-0) 11 stages (3-1) or 14 stages (3-2), leaving at minimum a whopping 9 stages still legal come the final match of a tournament. Current rule set in Smash 4, we only have 6 legal stages period. This is a very nice jump in legal stages.

Also, unlike how the stages reset in a current Smash 4 tournament set (after each match, players re-stage strike which often means they just re-strike the same stages over and over), each ban is permanent for the duration of that set. So, for instance, say player 2 bans Town and City during that banning process of game 1. Town and City would remain off for the rest of their set. This adds more weight to their ban choices.

Of course the random stage switch would be reset after each set, once again having all 23 legal stages toggled on and all illegal stages toggled off.
I am open to suggestions, but I feel like this is a good formula. It greatly increases the amount of tournament legal stages, decreases the time between matches in a set (a quick ban instead of stage striking) while still giving players some sense of control on where they don't want to fight, and it provides the flair of stages being randomly chosen each match.
I wpuldnt count on larger stageslike pyrosphere being legal circle camping and all that jazz and as with duck hunt extreme elevated platforms probably out as well. But im excited less awful smashvillebamd tc music.
I want traveling stages back stage awareness is a skill reward that
 

StrangeMann

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554
Decidueye feels like the least likely to me but yeah concept art would be the saving grace here.

Although...



in terms of art the match up is even imo.

Lastly Lycanroc is not going to be Ash's ace, this was clear from the moment we got a Torracat vs Incneroar fight. Torracat is the next Charizard.

This is baseless but I can see Mimikyu being a Team Rocket main stay like Wobbuafett
Definately feel Lycanroc falls behind the other 3 in concept art, especially for Sun/Moon and not Ultra.
If the roster was decided before Sun/Moon, I don't think we'll see Lycanroc as the playable.
 

monadoboy

Smash Lord
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Decidueye feels like the least likely to me but yeah concept art would be the saving grace here.

Although...



in terms of art the match up is even imo.

Lastly Lycanroc is not going to be Ash's ace, this was clear from the moment we got a Torracat vs Incneroar fight. Torracat is the next Charizard.

This is baseless but I can see Mimikyu being a Team Rocket main stay like Wobbuafett
If Mimikyu stays with Team Rocket then that's a plus for Mimikyu
Check this poster in Walmart, all popular or gen one Pokemon and... Wobbuffet? Unless I'm missing something, he's just Team Rocket's #2
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
It's not guaranteed that we'll get a new Pokemon rep. Pokemon is fine with the reps it has now.
maymay.jpg

iT's NoT gUaRaNtEeD tHaT wE'lL gEt A nEw PoKeMoN rEp. pOkEmOn Is FiNe WiTh ThE rEpS iT hAs NoW.

This feels like the most appropriate response at this point, honestly. That's all I'm gonna say to you.
 

Galgatha

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I wpuldnt count on larger stageslike pyrosphere being legal circle camping and all that jazz and as with duck hunt extreme elevated platforms probably out as well. But im excited less awful smashvillebamd tc music.
I want traveling stages back stage awareness is a skill reward that
Finally, somebody responded to my idea lol. Pyrosphere being out is fine, what I didn't include Duck hunt, but what did Isay could be legal that has extreme elevated platforms? Only think I can think of is Resett Bomb Forrest
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Chill much?? We might get a new Pokemon, we might not. Not that big of a deal honestly
I know. This isn't about that.
My problem is that he's been saying this non-stop since yesterday every time there's a discussion about Pokemon newcomers without giving a good reason, and it just gets annoying.
 

blackghost

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Finally, somebody responded to my idea lol. Pyrosphere being out is fine, what I didn't include Duck hunt, but what did Isay could be legal that has extreme elevated platforms? Only think I can think of is Resett Bomb Forrest
Idk the ds stages so idk. I dont have much faith in the community to make reasonable stage decisions. Id love for some of the nontraditional layouts (such as dream dreams gaps) be legal. Otherwise you just end up with a very similar layout over a bunch of stages. Also we have to turn the hazard button on for pokemon stadium. Imo. Ps2 can be a nuetral ler ps1 stay traditional. If melee players can do it smash ult players cam as well.
 

Galgatha

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I know. This isn't about that.
My problem is that he's been saying this non-stop since yesterday every time there's a discussion about Pokemon newcomers without giving a good reason, and it just gets annoying.
Okay, then just don't respond. There's no rule that states that you need to respond to everything that anybody says about a certain topic.

If it get's annoying, just ignore him and move on with your day. Nothing you say, nor him, will decide who (if anybody else) is getting into the roster, so all the back and forward is pretty much moot at this point. We just have to wait and see now


Idk the ds stages so idk. I dont have much faith in the community to make reasonable stage decisions. Id love for some of the nontraditional layouts (such as dream dreams gaps) be legal. Otherwise you just end up with a very similar layout over a bunch of stages. Also we have to turn the hazard button on for pokemon stadium. Imo. Ps2 can be a nuetral ler ps1 stay traditional. If melee players can do it smash ult players cam as well.
I'd rather have hazards toggled off. It allows more stage variety and would make tournaments more streamline with the random stage selector.

I have some hope that this could work if enough TO's jumped on board. The reason is that 1, stage hazard toggle off, 2 the little screen that shows blast zones when you are off screen (if that carries over into launch) and 3 you pick your stage BEFORE you pick your character. So what-ever legal stage is chosen from the list I provided, if you are a good player, you should be able to pick a main that would work well for you on that stage.

These reasons, I feel, could allow the Smash community to greatly increase the legal stage count and get rid of stage striking all together.
 
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