Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Omega Tyrant]

Regarding ballot popularity, Slime might be a genuine possibility since Square Enix is already involved in this game.

Dragon Quest is the best selling game series of all time for Japan, and the Slime is incredibly popular.

As much as I would love a DQ character to get in, I don't think Slime would satisfy Sakurai's stricter third party requirements, since Dragon Quest lacks worldwide popularity and I don't know if Slime would be interesting enough moveset wise. I additionally think Geno would get in before Slime, as the former has had the long-standing Smash demand and Sakurai has stated he wanted him since Brawl.

Almost entirely. I believe in Brawl's case, Wolf, Toon Link and Sonic were added way late in development after the final roster had already been decided for a year. So it's not that it's impossible for things to change, but it's unlikely. Particularly if Nintendo had planned on releasing Smash this winter all along, considering they don't have any other major first-party Switch releases scheduled then besides Mario Party and the Pokemon spin-off.

Wolf, Toon Link, and Jigglypuff were always planned to be in Brawl, they were just low priority characters who Sakurai would have cut if developmental demands forced it and kept out of the SSE in case they needed to be cut. It's the confirmed fate of the rest of Brawl's Forbidden Seven, as Sakurai stated there were more low priority characters who were not able to be fit into the game in the end.

The only characters who get added mid-development are clones and Sonic in Brawl (the latter which was a big exception because he was originally planned and was the most requested character by a massive margin). The only other alterations made to the original planned roster are scrapping low priority characters who couldn't be finished in time (Brawl's Forbidden Seven and some other characters in Smash 4 that Sakurai confirmed existed but that we can only speculate the identity of), scrapping characters from technical issues (Ice Climbers in Smash 4), and third parties who Sakurai couldn't get the licensing to (initially Sonic in Brawl and probably the fate of Snake in Smash 4).

They fall within the same category as Lucas and Roy regardless. Semi-clones, but not clones, because clones are now Echoes, and since they aren't Echoes, they aren't clones, but since they still have some similar traits in moves that makes them semi-clones. I don't understand going the whole loopdeloop to explain it.

Echoes aren't just clones, they're clones that are so similar that they're essentially glorified alts. Here is something I wrote earlier explaining the clone spectrum:

On the topic earlier of Echo vs. semi-clone, it's not an either or situation, cloning exists on a spectrum. Additionally, from what we seen Echoes aren't just clones, they're essentially glorified alts, with practically 1:1 body structure and few actual gameplay differences; Lucina is negligibly shorter with negligibly shorter reach (a matter of a couple pixels, so practically irrelevant) with the exact same movement specs/physics while all her moves function the same with the same frame data as Marth's (just with consistent strength throughout and no tipper), and then Dark Pit is the exact same in everything except for his f-tilt having weaker knockback, his jab finisher having a smaller hitbox (this one probably an oversight after a patch made Pit's bigger without doing the same for Dark Pit), altered arrows (stronger with less control), an altered side-b (stronger with horizontal knockback), and a different final smash. Even the Melee clones were substantially more different than this (as they had different shapes/sizes, different movement specs/physics, different frame data and damage/knockback values on pretty much all attacks, many moves having altered functioning, and even a unique move here and there). Dr. Mario avoids the Echo designation for this reason, while calling him a semi-clone is still not accurate from what we seen. The general cloning categories goes like this:

*Echo Fighters (as covered prior)

*Clones (most if not all moves cloned from another character, but most if not all aspects have been altered substantially so that they are legitimately distinct in how they play; the six Melee clones and 64 Luigi are examples).

*Semi-clones (has a significant portion of their design/moveset cloned from another character, but has just as much or more that is unique to them or drastically altered that labelling them just a clone is misleading; 64 Jigglypuff, post-64 Luigi, post-Melee Falco and Ganondorf, Toon Link, and Lucas are examples).

*No real accepted term for this; characters with a few cloned aspects but mostly unique (Wolf, post-64 Jigglypuff, 64 Captain Falcon and Ness are examples).

Then additionally the individually categories themselves are on a spectrum; for example among the Melee clones Ganondorf is significantly more different from his source character than Dr. Mario is, and among semi-clones Lucas for example is close to the semi-clone label being questionable while Brawl Toon Link is on the opposite end of the semi-clone spectrum.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Going back to Smash 4, it was great seeing all those reveals come out. Little Mac’s happened on the day I was officially married. Olimar happened when I took my friend to pick up a cat he was adopting. Luigi happens during the DDoS attacks. Ike happened when I was going home from work on a Friday. Same with Lucario. And Cloud happened just a few hours before I went to America for my sisters wedding. So heard about it in Japan and watched the trailer when I arrived at my parents house in Ohio lol.

Ridley was watched at 2:30 in the morning on mute while trying to keep my hype silent as not to wake up our easily-to-wake-up daughter. It was tough.

 

[KMDP]

Echoes aren't just clones, they're clones that are so similar that they're essentially glorified alts. Here is something I wrote earlier explaining the clone spectrum:

What you said in your quote is exactly what I think about Echoes, Clones and Semi-Clones. It just makes sense to me.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

Regarding ballot popularity, Slime might be a genuine possibility since Square Enix is already involved in this game.

Dragon Quest is the best selling game series of all time for Japan, and the Slime is incredibly popular.

I would rather a DQ protag would get in as it's the closest thing to Goku in Smash that could happen considering the art

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Honestly, at this point, it's pretty clear to me what happened.

Somehow, a small group of people saw the E3 trailer early, and it would not surprise me if Verg's source were in that Group(Forgive me for not knowing the name, but I've seen it brought up here several times in the past).

How they saw the E3 trailer early, I have no idea, but there's been a lot of hints to it, from that one gal(Emily I believe), to that 'joke' in that one Gamexplain video, it's wayyy too much of a coincidence at this point.


As for Verg, his initial source was more likely than not one of these people, while his second source probably fed him the Simon and Minecraft info, which seems to be mostly false now.

Opinions, vaanrose ? You more likely than not don't know anything about this specific leak, but you've been in those shoes in the past. How likely do you think it'd be for a group to get this info and keep it to themselves?

Verg actually said Simon was from the same source that leaked Ridley and the ICs and Minecraft came from an entirely different source. I think the former probably just got lucky on Ridley and the ICs and whatever else they predicted. As for the Minecraft source, well probably fake too but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[KMDP]

I would rather a DQ protag would get in as it's the closest thing to Goku in Smash that could happen considering the art

I see your "DQ protag" and suggest "Crono" as an alternative.

 

[Blargg888]

*Iconic music playing for FFVII*
Smash fans: omg it wolf

To be fair, the scene did open up on a shot in space.
Star Fox is a game series that involves lots of interplanetary travel so it's not that much of a stretch.

 

[Cosmic77]

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but Cloud's reveal didn't excite me all that much. Yeah, he's super iconic and all, but I, just like many others, was under the impression that DLC would be pure fan favorite picks. Once I saw Cloud, I was like, "Who asked for this guy?"

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I see your "DQ protag" and suggest "Crono" as an alternative.

Now don't you go getting my hopes up

 

[Zinith]

I was LONG out of Smash 4 before Cloud was revealed, so I'm not sure what it was like when that happened

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I would rather a DQ protag would get in as it's the closest thing to Goku in Smash that could happen considering the art

I'd like 5 or 8's protagonists personally but maybe that's just because I have a bias towards both.

 

[Zinith]

I'd like 5 or 8's protagonists personally but maybe that's just because I have a bias towards both.

Eight is probably the closest thing DQ has to a Cloud...

 

[KMDP]

I remember sitting across my friend/roomie who loves Final Fantasy 7 more than I ever could.

I screamed out ''CLOUD?!" randomly and he looked at me all ''o_O"

''IN SMASH BROTHERS!"

That and how actual professional media outlets for gaming broke down and literally had curse words in the title of their announcements because they were in a hurry to get the article up and were still hype themselves will always stay with me.

That day Sakurai really did break the internet.

People who didn't realise it was impossible, that's who.

Now don't you go getting my hopes up

Here's a list of Square Enix character I could legit see happening.
Erdrick (DQ protag)
Crono
Terra Branford
Sephiroth
...maybe Warrior of Light as he appeared in Dissidia (a crazy idea, but I think it's a good one).

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I mean, you also have to consider if someone's never actually played FF7, they wouldn't recognize it.

*Raises hand*

Oh, same thing for me. Though a friend watching the direct yelled "HOLY **** FINAL FANTASY" and I went "WAIT THEN DOES THAT MEAN CLOUD'S IN SMASH?"

 

[Zippo]

Links to these LOZ18 leaks?

 

[vaanrose]

Honestly, at this point, it's pretty clear to me what happened.

Somehow, a small group of people saw the E3 trailer early, and it would not surprise me if Verg's source were in that Group(Forgive me for not knowing the name, but I've seen it brought up here several times in the past).

How they saw the E3 trailer early, I have no idea, but there's been a lot of hints to it, from that one gal(Emily I believe), to that 'joke' in that one Gamexplain video, it's wayyy too much of a coincidence at this point.


As for Verg, his initial source was more likely than not one of these people, while his second source probably fed him the Simon and Minecraft info, which seems to be mostly false now.

Opinions, vaanrose ? You more likely than not don't know anything about this specific leak, but you've been in those shoes in the past. How likely do you think it'd be for a group to get this info and keep it to themselves?

Last time the kid who put all the ESRB videos online wasn't in the first group of people who got the videos. Near as I could figure, he wasn't even in the list of people who the people in that group gave the videos to. It was several steps on the ladder before they finally fell into the hands of someone desperate enough for attention that they went online and leaked them, who notably also attempted to ride the coattails and "leak" additional stuff before I ratted him out. People trust their friends, and then their friends trust some friends, and so on until some random kid from Wisconsin winds up with some of the most closely guarded industry secrets in his possession.

But believe it or not, most people who get told sensitive information don't go running to the internet to blab about it. If people remember, I only entered this leak scene as a direct response to a friend getting called out for what was, from my perspective, completely legit information, to defend someone else's reputation. And that's also how I became privy to most of the ESRB stuff, even going as far as to speaking with both the kid who posted the videos publicly and the actual guy who shot the original videos. I earned people's trust because it was clear to people my intentions were honest.

That's why Verg rubs me the wrong way. If he is getting information from other people, real or false, he wastes no time sharing it to boost his own reputation, with no regard for how legitimate it may or may not be. And honestly, I don't see how he could have any legitimate sources after his history of immediately sharing everything he's told. Who would come to him with a secret when it's clear it wouldn't be kept? The fact that so many of his past leaks have clearly piggybacked off of other rumors, both true and false, tells me he's someone who goes out of his way to find what's being rumored to up his own chances of passing himself off as someone in the know. God knows why.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

I believe Verge claimed his Ridley source said Simon as well right? So if Simon is false. He either made this all up and got lucky on the Ridley front.

Or the source fed him half truths.

Vergeben claims he has four different sources for his Smash info:

*Someone from Bandai Namco who told him they're developing Metroid Prime 4 and that Ridley is in Smash
*Someone who told him Ridley, ICs, Belmont, and Snake are in with no cuts.
*Someone else who stated the above, but also told him there would be Minecraft content, and told him the other games (such as a Jump Stars game and the currently missing Castlevania games), while this is the source that he claims is "mighty refutable".
*Someone who told him Ridley is in and how he would be revealed at E3, having seen E3 material for him. This is additionally the source Vergeben stated he wasn't confident in.

 

[Jedisupersonic]

...maybe Warrior of Light as he appeared in Dissidia (a crazy idea, but I think it's a good one).

Now don't you get my hopes up for Grant George VAing in Smash Bros haha. I'd love it though.

WoL could probably do some unique stuff with his shielding like he does in Dissidia proper too.

 

[Deleted member]

The night Cloud was revealed was a night to remember.
My friend and I lost our ****. Neither of us has even played FF7 at the time (I still haven't), but we knew who he was, and like many others at the time we thought he had no chance.
It was the mere shock that made this reveal so exciting to me.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

People who didn't realise it was impossible, that's who.


Here's a list of Square Enix character I could legit see happening.
Erdrick (DQ protag)
Crono
Terra Branford
Sephiroth
...maybe Warrior of Light as he appeared in Dissidia (a crazy idea, but I think it's a good one).

I wanna see Sephiroth happen not because I'm a Sephiroth fan but because I'm an evil ******* and I want to see the internet break

 

[Jedisupersonic]

The night Cloud was revealed was a night to remember.
My friend and I lost our ****. Neither of us has even played FF7 at the time (I still haven't), but we knew who he was, and like many others at the time we thought he had no chance.
It was the mere shock that made this reveal so exciting to me.

I was at work, and I suddenly got like 20 texts. I thought the first was a prank, but then it kept happening and I was like... "Cloud is in Smash..." it was almost as exciting to me as Sonic being confirmed for Brawl, as a long time FF fan and I do really like 7 (not my absolute fav but it's up there) it was hella hype.

 

[Jetsurge]

I think he meant "don't expect too many newcomers in the base game".

DLC is different, and much less work-intensive, I don't doubt he wouldn't at least considered doing DLC.

They will do dlc, Smash 4 dlc made too much money. It's Nintendo's best selling dlc.

 

[Blargg888]

Going back to Smash 4, it was great seeing all those reveals come out. Little Mac’s happened on the day I was officially married. Olimar happened when I took my friend to pick up a cat he was adopting. Luigi happens during the DDoS attacks. Ike happened when I was going home from work on a Friday. Same with Lucario. And Cloud happened just a few hours before I went to America for my sisters wedding. So heard about it in Japan and watched the trailer when I arrived at my parents house in Ohio lol.

Ridley was watched at 2:30 in the morning on mute while trying to keep my hype silent as not to wake up our easily-to-wake-up daughter. It was tough.

I still remember exactly where I was and what I was doing during the Villager/Megaman, Little Mac, Robin/Lucina, Cloud, and Corrin trailers.

Those reveals in particular stuck with me more than the rest for some reason.


Sometimes it's hard to believe that I was still in middle school when the first Smash 4 trailer dropped. It really doesn't feel like it was that long ago.

 

[Deleted member]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

 

[Zinith]

As you probably know, I only have one character who I legitimately get excited for whenever he gets revealed...

 

[Jedisupersonic]

I still remember exactly where I was and what I was doing during the Villager/Megaman, Little Mac, Robin/Lucina, Cloud, and Corrin trailers.

Those reveals in particular stuck with me more than the rest for some reason.


Sometimes it's hard to believe that I was still in middle school when the first Smash 4 trailer dropped. It really doesn't feel like it was that long ago.

Oh geez you're making me feel old, I was in high school when the Brawl hype was going on, but yeah the 4 Trailers were really well done. The one that will always stick with me though was Sonic because it was a dream come true of my childhood, two icons I grew up with (Mario & Sonic) were in the same game at long last.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

As you probably know, I only have one character who I legitimately get excited for whenever he gets revealed...

.... Poochy?

 

[Hinata]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

for me, his new kit seems hella fun.

 

[Shroob]

I still remember exactly where I was and what I was doing during the Villager/Megaman, Little Mac, Robin/Lucina, Cloud, and Corrin trailers.

Those reveals in particular stuck with me more than the rest for some reason.


Sometimes it's hard to believe that I was still in middle school when the first Smash 4 trailer dropped. It really doesn't feel like it was that long ago.

boi

I was in my early 20s when that stuff dropped.

I'm almost 30 now. I feel old.

 

[KMDP]

Now don't you get my hopes up for Grant George VAing in Smash Bros haha. I'd love it though.

WoL could probably do some unique stuff with his shielding like he does in Dissidia proper too.

I wanna see Sephiroth happen not because I'm a Sephiroth fan but because I'm an evil ******* and I want to see the internet break

Speaking of VAs and Sephiroth: If Sephiroth were to get in, between him and Lucario we could have a proxy battle for Goku vs. Superman.

 

[osby]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

Well, here goes my last post for five pages:
Jigglypuff, Samus and Ness.

 

[IsmaR]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

There's more or less a thread specifically for this by Zinith

https://smashboards.com/threads/ass...he-original-8-who-will-you-start-with.455641/

 

[Jedisupersonic]

.... Poochy?

His tagline better be "Poochy ain't stupid"

 

[Zinith]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

I made a thread poll about this, although it was the OG 8.

The 3 characters I'll play the most are , and . That seems to me good variety...

Edit: Thank you IsmaR

 

[KMDP]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

and , probably.

 

[Jetsurge]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

to see if he unlocks King K. Rool.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

https://youtu.be/i6iRABmRPk0

This song better be in the game

 

[Jedisupersonic]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

and probably for me

 

[Blargg888]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

Luigi, Kirby, Mario, Pikachu, and Link for me.

 

[Slavic]

So who are you going to play the most from the original 12 at the start of Smash Ultimate?

As for me: , and .

will be fun since his big revamp, and I'm always a fan of sword users.
the only one I really ever used in my limited time in SSB64, and she's looking good this time around.
her mileage has varied game from game, peaked in Melee for me, but I'll gladly give her a spin with the limited roster.
is just always such a fun character to play with his aggression and attitude, how could I not?