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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Bowserlick

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Picking ARMs at the selection screen is basically selecting a Monado Art for each arm. Not especially difficult.

Is it worth it? That is a good question. I do think the mechanic extends game-play life by essentially making multiple clones out of one character. The downsides include hanging out for a longer time at the character selection screen, because a player can't make up one's mind on the combination and possible special devotion in development.

Also, in order to make the mechanic flashy, I would recommend a B move that charges the ARMs in order to unleash a visually-stimulating explosion that looks different depending on the ARM combination. Adding specific bonuses for charged ARMs reflecting the element can help sell the experience.
 

LIQUID12A

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Picking ARMs at the selection screen is basically selecting a Monado Art for each arm. Not especially difficult.
Not that I'm against an arm shifting mechanic at all, but this proposal is arguably more limiting to the character in practice.

Even going beyond selecting individual arms on the character select screen being a weird way of implementing it, you'd be stuck with those selected arms throughout the entire match. Shulk's entire gimmick, for comparison, is that he can do what's being proposed here in a second and change his playstyle in the heat of the moment, compared to the idea of spending extra time on the selection screen for something needlessly complex that you're stuck with.

A much better implementation to me would be system like Shulk's that simply changes both arms entirely and changes the B moves to fit the currently active pair. It's not entirely unique (though being different for the sake of it isn't much better), and someone could probably make a more unique yet seamless idea than myself, but it probably makes more sense than sticking to one arm combination for the entire match.
 
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Bowserlick

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A much better implementation to me would be system like Shulk's that simply changes both arms entirely and changes the B moves to fit the currently active pair. It's not entirely unique (though being different for the sake of it isn't much better), and someone could probably make a more unique yet seamless idea than myself, but it probably makes more sense than sticking to one arm combination for the entire match.
I have proposed a shifting specials mechanic for Springman, King K. Rool (costume change) and Paper Mario (partner change). I think the mechanic you are suggesting is a good one for the right character.

This selection screen proposal is essentially a quick Mii build that allows you to create many different clones. What makes the choice strategic at beginning is the ability to attack twice on a tilt once you play the round. Tapping "A" after a tilt swings out the second arm for a punch.
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Not that I'm against an arm shifting mechanic at all, but this proposal is arguably more limiting to the character in practice.

Even going beyond selecting individual arms on the character select screen being a weird way of implementing it, you'd be stuck with those selected arms throughout the entire match. Shulk's entire gimmick, for comparison, is that he can do what's being proposed here in a second and change his playstyle in the heat of the moment, compared to the idea of spending extra time on the selection screen for something needlessly complex that you're stuck with.

A much better implementation to me would be system like Shulk's that simply changes both arms entirely and changes the B moves to fit the currently active pair. It's not entirely unique (though being different for the sake of it isn't much better), and someone could probably make a more unique yet seamless idea than myself, but it probably makes more sense than sticking to one arm combination for the entire match.
Maybe tie it to the side special?

Left side = changes left arm
Right side = changes right arm
 

LunchmanJ

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Ignoring the amount of requests, who is the biggest, most recurring Wario Ware character besides Wario himself? This is for a roster I'm creating.
 

Luminario

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Ignoring the amount of requests, who is the biggest, most recurring Wario Ware character besides Wario himself? This is for a roster I'm creating.
The longest recurring characters in WarioWare itself would probably be either Mona, Jimmy T, 9-Volt, or Kat & Ana, but if we're going with most exposure, then definitely Ashley.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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Mona and Ashley are the frontrunners.

Probably Ashley.
 
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Ashley absolutely wins the popularity contest. Can't really tell importance from lack of experience.

But one is an assist trophy and one isn't. And one was used extensively in the Badge Arcade, and one wasn't


I think im giving this one to Ashley, just based on appearances outside of WW
 

LunchmanJ

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The longest recurring characters in WarioWare itself would probably be either Mona, Jimmy T, 9-Volt, or Kat & Ana, but if we're going with most exposure, then definitely Ashley.
How does Ashley have more exposure? I've never played a Wario Ware game in my life (though I will). Is it because she's promoted more, or because people like/know her? I want characters with the most screen time.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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How does Ashley have more exposure? I've never played a Wario Ware game in my life (though I will). Is it because she's promoted more, or because people like/know her? I want characters with the most screen time.
List of non-WW things Ashley appeared in;
  • Brawl (sticker cameo, theme song in the Wario stage)
  • Smash 4 (Assist Trophy, regular trophy, Mii costume, theme song in the Wario stage, Japan gets a second variant of the theme song too)
  • Rhythm Heaven Megamix (playable character)
  • Daigasso! Band Brothers P (cameo, Japan-only)
  • Mario Maker (costume cameo)
  • Nintendo Badge Arcade (appears in 8 different sets of badges, including 4 holiday-themed sets themed exclusively about her and Red)
  • 3DS Home Menu (has at least three themes)
  • She also had a cameo in a trailer for Art Academy: Home Studio
In comparison, one of the most profilic characters of the WarioWare franchise, Mona, only gets this outside of her franchise;
  • Brawl (sticker cameo, theme song in Wario stage)
  • Smash 4 (regular trophy)
  • Rhythm Heaven Megamix (NPC)
  • Nintendo Badge Arcade (only appears in the WarioWare set)
Keep in mind that Mona is actually the closet WarioWare character to having as much exposure as Ashley. Not counting Wario himself, of course.
 
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N3ON

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Hey I'm still waiting for Crazy Galaxy ft. Ashley.



April Fools or not you know someone at Nintendo wants to make this game. :p
 

LunchmanJ

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List of non-WW things Ashley appeared in;
  • Brawl (sticker cameo, theme song in the Wario stage)
  • Smash 4 (Assist Trophy, regular trophy, Mii costume, theme song in the Wario stage, Japan gets a second variant of the theme song too)
  • Rhythm Heaven Megamix (playable character)
  • Daigasso! Band Brothers P (cameo, Japan-only)
  • Mario Maker (costume cameo)
  • Nintendo Badge Arcade (appears in 8 different sets of badges, including 4 holiday-themed sets themed exclusively about her and Red)
  • 3DS Home Menu (has at least three themes)
  • She also had a cameo in a trailer for Art Academy: Home Studio
In comparison, one of the most profilic characters of the WarioWare franchise, Mona, only gets this outside of her franchise;
  • Brawl (sticker cameo, theme song in Wario stage)
  • Smash 4 (regular trophy)
  • Rhythm Heaven Megamix (NPC)
  • Nintendo Badge Arcade (only appears in the WarioWare set)
Keep in mind that Mona is actually the closet WarioWare character to having as much exposure as Ashley. Not counting Wario himself, of course.
I'm going more for screen time within the Wario games as opposed to outside. Also, the character must be able to fight because I'm doing this for a private Project M mod.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ashley clearly has magic. In fact, she's a pure magic user(well, a witch) and is talks about brewing potions. The key thing that's noted in her theme song is she screws up at times too.

Mona may be a frontrunner, but besides being a pizza deliver service girl and riding on a motorbike... what else does she even do? An issue is while it's not super hard to make a moveset for her at all, some of it feels a bit too shoehorned in and trying too hard. To make a tangible moveset, you'd likely have to reference the various WarioWare minigames to make it stand out. Ashley doesn't have this given issue because she has a clear capability for moves, blatantly given within the series, that are her own too.

For Ashley, high risk high reward would be a perfect playstyle that fits his personality. This could mean larger charge times with immensely overpowered moves. Is it balanced? No. She could have a decent amount of weaker moves and spells that could help make this playstyle workable. But she wouldn't have KO power without the risky moves. If you only have risky moves, it obviously wouldn't ever be viable as an idea. But having a ton of weaker stuff to compliment it helps. For instance, having a stunning spell that only lasts longer under a certain condition could help her get a KO in. It could be because they have high damage(like how long you can hold a character for with a grab), or it could be on a meter in the same way that Wario Waft is, making it hard to spam. This would mean she has to play a waiting game to win. This isn't a bad thing.
 

LunchmanJ

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Ashley clearly has magic. In fact, she's a pure magic user(well, a witch) and is talks about brewing potions. The key thing that's noted in her theme song is she screws up at times too.

Mona may be a frontrunner, but besides being a pizza deliver service girl and riding on a motorbike... what else does she even do? An issue is while it's not super hard to make a moveset for her at all, some of it feels a bit too shoehorned in and trying too hard. To make a tangible moveset, you'd likely have to reference the various WarioWare minigames to make it stand out. Ashley doesn't have this given issue because she has a clear capability for moves, blatantly given within the series, that are her own too.

For Ashley, high risk high reward would be a perfect playstyle that fits his personality. This could mean larger charge times with immensely overpowered moves. Is it balanced? No. She could have a decent amount of weaker moves and spells that could help make this playstyle workable. But she wouldn't have KO power without the risky moves. If you only have risky moves, it obviously wouldn't ever be viable as an idea. But having a ton of weaker stuff to compliment it helps. For instance, having a stunning spell that only lasts longer under a certain condition could help her get a KO in. It could be because they have high damage(like how long you can hold a character for with a grab), or it could be on a meter in the same way that Wario Waft is, making it hard to spam. This would mean she has to play a waiting game to win. This isn't a bad thing.
If playing a waiting game is camping then that's horrifying. It may not seem like a bad thing, but it FEELS awful to play against whether you want it to or not.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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If playing a waiting game is camping then that's horrifying. It may not seem like a bad thing, but it FEELS awful to play against whether you want it to or not.
Not really. Camping isn't that.

A waiting game means to keep going at the opponent but also be prepared to dodge and not try to make a finishing blow till you know it's possible to do so.

Now, I don't know the exact definition of camping, but I thought it was holding a key spot in the stage and constantly getting everyone away. The point of the playstyle I mentioned is actually more what Shiek was designed to do at first, constantly throw in fast attacks and dodge constantly. Once they got enough damage, you switch to Zelda who has KO power. The idea here is akin to that, but less about speed and more about having weaker attacks that cannot KO, while the actual KO moves require a risky use, also meaning giving Ashley a utility move to stun an opponent. The basic strategy would be "deal tons of piddly damage, then use your stun move when it would last long enough to allow for a KO move to hit". That's what I was talking about. The idea the KO move or stun move would be on a meter is a balancing factor to prevent it from being too easy to win with right away. Being able to stun an opponent for a while and hit them with a power move with a rinse and repeat strategy would be unbalanced. Having some restrictions on use make these moves require strategy, which for a highly intelligent witch, actually has some logic to it. The point of the risky stuff is that she clearly is known for making mistakes. Making it a risk means a player making a mistake happens to fit with the character design. To say the least, the "character design being applicable to a player" just happens to work out that way and isn't entirely the point.
 

Swamp Sensei

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If playing a waiting game is camping then that's horrifying. It may not seem like a bad thing, but it FEELS awful to play against whether you want it to or not.
As someone who plays a lot of fighting games, this makes me worry about the design of you mod.

Waiting game does not equal camping. Neither does defensive play. Even then, camping is incredibly hard to pull off in non Brawl Smash games.

Even stil, most fighting games are fine with a little camping.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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I'm going more for screen time within the Wario games as opposed to outside. Also, the character must be able to fight because I'm doing this for a private Project M mod.
What gets more screen time would be the microgames :troll:

But seriously, Ashley is the most well-known WarioWare character for outsiders due to how much exposure she has.

She also has a ton of potential since her pet demon Red can shapeshift and she herself can use magic, like Rocky said.

Not saying Red would be a Luma though. Just some kind of weapon that would change into whatever is most convenient for Ashley, like a wand for spells.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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One potential issue with Ashley is her characterization. In the Japanese version she's shy, but in the localizations, she's a nasty piece of work iirc
Just pull a Wario and stick with the overall design from one region. His Japanese and US versions have a lot of differences. His "gross out" style is specific to Japan, and didn't really become a thing in the US till way later, mostly because of WarioWare, which ultimately fit his canon and original characterization worldwide.

That said, Smash doesn't adhere to exact personalities, so they could go with either one and it'd still work out as long as they make effort towards having the character dialogue/personality not feel entirely out of place. A bit of a tsundere, which combines both personalities, could potentially work.
 

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@Final Smash Gamer

INTRODUCTION
Welcome to the Official Signature Icons Thread!

This thread serves as a compendium of those little images to express support of characters to be included in Super Smash Bros. 4.

While many character support threads already have signature icons, it can be a little tedious to search in each individual thread, especially when you consider the fact that not all threads have signature images.

You can also make your own icons to be added to this opening post.

Requests are available! Post your request here so that me or someone else may work on a new icon.
You can add any of these icons to your support threads afterwards, as long as credit to the author(s) is properly given.

NOTICES:
It's recommended that you make one image out of the icons you want to use and host it yourself to avoid consuming too much bandwidth and rendering some images broken.

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(Geno belongs to Square Enix, but is part of the Mario series)

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SIMILAR THREADS
As posted by Super Smash Bros. Fan, there's a thread for signature icons made by Starphoenix.
Click here to go to that thread.

Here you go.
 
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A next Wario character? This used to be a popular idea, but is pretty much unspoken of these days. Much like the idea of a newcomer from the F-Zero franchise died after Brawl was released. Due to so much lack of discussion about these characters, I sometimes forget they even exist. Which is a shame.

Ironically, I think the Yoshi's Island franchise might finally get another character finally with Yarn Yoshi. Well not 100% confident on it to be honest, but let's just say I think Yarn Yoshi is a whole lot more likely than Ashley (the logical only WarioWare pick) and a F-Zero character. Honestly, am not even sold on a newcomer from the Donkey Kong Country and Legend of Zelda franchises. And if even THOSE franchises get neglected, despite not having had a proper newcomer since Brawl (some say Toon Link doesn't even count) then you know there's a representation problem.

Inb4 there's no reps. Cause when it comes to Fire Emblem, Pokemon and Mario, there is. This is very apperant and I really want it to stop.
 

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One potential issue with Ashley is her characterization. In the Japanese version she's shy, but in the localizations, she's a nasty piece of work iirc
I mean, wasn't that an issue with Palutena? IIRC she's much more calm and collected in Japan, while she's more snarky and upbeat elsewhere.
 

Luminario

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Is Ashley shown that differently between the Japanese and the English versions? Looking at her cutscenes in the games and her Assist Trophy ability she seems to like dark magic and hexes no matter the nationality. I don't think that just because she's shy in Japan and awkward in English versions that that would really hinder her chances at all.
Also LunchmanJ, Ashley could easily be Smash's first debuffer too, seeing as how curses seem to be her specialty ("I turned my teacher into a spoon~") so if the waiting game playstyle isn't to your liking there are other options.
 

LunchmanJ

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A next Wario character? This used to be a popular idea, but is pretty much unspoken of these days. Much like the idea of a newcomer from the F-Zero franchise died after Brawl was released. Due to so much lack of discussion about these characters, I sometimes forget they even exist. Which is a shame.

Ironically, I think the Yoshi's Island franchise might finally get another character finally with Yarn Yoshi. Well not 100% confident on it to be honest, but let's just say I think Yarn Yoshi is a whole lot more likely than Ashley (the logical only WarioWare pick) and a F-Zero character. Honestly, am not even sold on a newcomer from the Donkey Kong Country and Legend of Zelda franchises. And if even THOSE franchises get neglected, despite not having had a proper newcomer since Brawl (some say Toon Link doesn't even count) then you know there's a representation problem.

Inb4 there's no reps. Cause when it comes to Fire Emblem, Pokemon and Mario, there is. This is very apperant and I really want it to stop.
I'll take your word for it. I based my roster on an old thread called Franchise representation vs sales. I need 5 of the most important characters around. I'm going with strictly this because I'll have to work on these characters, and who wants to work on a character that is less important than another character (and thus less deserving). So far my roster is this:

1. Dixie Kong (DK)
2. Ridley (Metroid)
3. Toad (Mario)
4. N/A
5. N/A

Who should be the last two? What franchises deserve more reps?
 
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Opossum

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I'll take your word for it. I based my roster on an old thread called Franchise representation vs sales. I need 5 of the most important characters around. I'm going with strictly this because I'll have to work on these characters, and who wants to work on a character that is less important than another character (and thus less deserving). So far my roster is this:

1. Dixie Kong (DK)
2. Ridley (Metroid)
3. Toad (Mario)
4. N/A
5. N/A

Who should be the last two? What franchises deserve more reps?
Inklings and Isabelle, IMO. They're some of Nintendo's most promoted characters and borderline icons.


Though that also begs the question of how you'd handle series that don't keep a static cast, like Pokémon, Fire Emblem, or Xenoblade Chronicles.
 

Diddy Kong

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I'll take your word for it. I based my roster on an old thread called Franchise representation vs sales. I need 5 of the most important characters around. I'm going with strictly this because I'll have to work on these characters, and who wants to work on a character that is less important than another character (and thus less deserving). So far my roster is this:

1. Dixie Kong (DK)
2. Ridley (Metroid)
3. Toad (Mario)
4. N/A
5. N/A

Who should be the last two? What franchises deserve more reps?
I say King K.Rool is more "deserving" than Ridley but you won't hear me complain if Dixie makes it in instead. Each and every character has it's pro and cons, and some woukd say another DKC character or Mario character, ir even Zslda character should make the list.

I personally feel Bandana Dee is in a good position to become playable. And if we'd look for a Zelda newcomer, Impa is probably the best choice.

Mario also has way more to offer than just Toad. His Captain alter ego is a good example. As well as Paper Mario. Geno is even a strong possibility due to the Mii costume and sudden Square interesst, and hell I could see Nabbit make it in. Mario always has options.

DKC, it's obviously King K.Rool and he's most likely the most popular Nintendo owned character not in Smash currently. Dixie might be a safer choice, and has a recent appearance to boot. So it mostly comes down to personal preference. However, they might very well opt for Cranky Kong or even DK Jr. as both characters also would be sensable newcomers.

Ridley also has Sylux to contest with. Am not yet sold on the propagated idea of 'Ridley or no Metroid newcomer'. Last time that idea was the general consensus, we got Zero Suit Samus instead. And am still grateful for that decision. Sylux and even the Federation Trooper are still sensible choices for newcomers from Metroid.

Personally I would also include a Zelda franchise character. If you want a long lasting character with a sure continuation in the franchise, opt for Impa. A Sheikah much like Sheik, or what Sheik pretends to be at least... then there's the Big Bad of the franchise Ganon, who's appearing far more than Ganondorf as of late. And even Midna is sensible given that Twilight Princess is about as much well known as Ocarina of Time at this point, a Wii U remake of TP, and the fact 4/5 Zelda characters use the TP designs since Brawl all help her cause. Then there's Toon Zelda if you want to be boring. Now that I think of it, even Skull Kid might have a shot of getting in due to Majora's Mask cult following and popularity...
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Considering it was hard to find Super Mario RPG at the time Geno was in Superstar Saga originally, the cameo felt more like it mattered. Now that Super Mario RPG is on the VC, as well as the SNES Classic, a cameo has less of an impact because you can experience him in his proper game much easier. It's not necessary anymore to get people interested in the character, or even to give nostalgia to some players.

Also, to be fair, it's not like he would've been licensed for any remakes, just the original game and stuff like a VC re-release, as long as the game is unchanged.
 

The Stoopid Unikorn

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Going back to the ARMS discussion, I feel like there's only one of three ways an ARMS-switching mechanic could work.

The first one would be to change it depending on the move. It wouldn't be an entirely accurate way of showing how it works in the game, but it could showcase the variety of ARMS in the game. With only three ARMS in the moveset, I could see a lot of moveset possibilities. More than three would be overkill since you can only choose three at a time in the game anyway.

The second would be to tie it to a special move. Any special could work, though side special could add more complexity by having each side change a different ARM. Either way, tying it to a special wouldn't really be any new, since Limit Gauge and Monado Arts, among others, also do a similar thing. The only differentce is that the character would get different moves entirely for anything that involves stretching those Plastic Boy limbs.

The third one? Just not do it at all. The concept of a fighter with stretchable limbs has never been seen in Smash and the uniqueness of it is already more than enough, so the ability to switch ARMS, while it could be neat, doesn't really feel necessary. Not to mention it'd be a lot of work for just a single reference, since each ARM would likely have their own frame data, hitboxes, range, damage, knockback, etc. due to how very different they can be from each other.
 
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FantasticMr.StarPit

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I do remember seeing a Scorpion and Sub-Zero moveset hack for Brawl. However, Sub-Zero seemed to be the better one of the two, especially in the Final Smash department, where both of Sub-Zero's Final Smashes are instant KOs.

Personally, Sub Zero would be best suited as we had enough fire type characters. Give the ice a chance. lol
 
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