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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Shroob

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I don't like to believe any leakers that just say things from "sources". I have no qualms with Steve or the Joestars Belmonts, but I like to see cold hard proof like the ESRB 3DS leak. :upsidedown:
To be fair, we didn't have proof for the ESRB leak for a looooooooooong time. For awhile, it was just Vaanrose's word until the actual photo got leaked.
 

monadoboy

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Like Blaziken could maybe work as Captain Falcon Echo.
I actually thought that would be incredibly awesome in the period of time between Melee and Brawl, haha. Seemed like a great idea at the time, and honestly, it doesn't sound that bad now. Not really an Echo but a semi-clone, though. He's got Fire Punch, Blaze Kick and Sky Uppercut all workable as cloned Falcon Punch, down b and side b.
I mean, his OG artwork is basically doing C. Falcon's fair lol:
 

Will

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To be fair, we didn't have proof for the ESRB leak for a looooooooooong time. For awhile, it was just Vaanrose's word until the actual photo got leaked.
Nothing ever really discredited it either, IIRC. The most palpable types of leaks are my **** though, it could be some of the most concrete that isn't datamining.
 

Shroob

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God, this just reminds me people thought that :4shulk:was a photoshopped :4littlemac:, and then like, a day later of people trying to prove it as so, the actual Shulk trailer and render dropped.
 

Pakky

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Goddammit.



Don't know what this means for Simon in Smash (I will ask him about that), but it means that the Castlevania series is still in limbo.
Puts me in a state of uncertainty. There are probably going to be 2 Konami reps I just don't know who the second is going to be. It could be Quiet for all I know. Or Frogger, or Rocket Knight, or someone from Contra, or Pyramid head...
 
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The Stoopid Unikorn

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Need to get something off of my chest. I personally don't like the Echo Fighters idea much.

Yes, clones have been a thing for every game, but at least, previous games felt like there was some effort put into those clones.

In the past games (except Dark Pit), they felt like different characters because they had different attributes, moves had different effects, that kind of stuff.

Echo Fighters, with the exception of Lucina due to no tipper, are essentially gonna be like Dark Pit, having the same moves and attributes, but with some properties changes in a move or two along with unique coemstic stuff like idles and taunts.

I'm sure there's a reason for the devs to not be as imaginative as before with clones and just copy-paste the moveset entirely for these Echoes, but I'm still really iffy about it personally.
 

Sharkarat

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Like seriously, don't want clones on the basis the they get in while still relevant, to declone them later. Arigarmy already mentioned Ganondorf who's the perfect example that this doesn't happen, but you see it on the other clones too.

If you want a clone it should be because that character fits ok and have little chance to get in otherwise. Character that isn't particulary relevant anymore like Dark Samus and Chrom who at this point it's either get in as clone or not at all.
 
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TheDukeofDorks

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You guys are taking the concept of echo character way too far. Now that the word "clone" has a cute euphemism you jump right into thinking "who will be the next echo fighter? Oh my! X could be an echo!" Didn't you hate clones back in 2014? Said Lucina and Dark Pit were lazy and "slot thieves?" The theme was bring back everyone, which unfortunately means Lucina and Dark Pit. Sakurai and the Smash team read all of your hate spam back in 2014-2015, so he gave it the brand to soften the backlash. Lucina and Dark Pit still look like they were coded in 2 minutes and not playtested at all. And you want MORE of this characters coded in 2 minutes? Make up your mind.
I hate this line of thinking so much. The "Oh you guys didn't like this at one time, but now you're happy with it this time? Make up your mind!" It pops up all the time and its utter nonsense. It assumes that the people throwing hatred at the idea then and the ones praising it now are the same groups of people, which is ridiculous. There is still plenty of backlash surrounding clones, it's just that the core fanbase *here* has beaten each other over the head so many times with the information that these characters are "Free dessert" that even those who were against the idea have mellowed over time. Plus, people can change their opinions as they grow and learn more about a subject. That's arguably THE hallmark of maturing, of course the Smash fanbase is going to warm to clone fighters as time passes.

For the record, I have and will always adore clones. I'd sacrifice a full newcomer if we could get a dozen more alternate playstyles in the game. Pichu4life!
 

Will

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Puts me in a state of uncertainty. There are probably going to be 2 Konami reps I just don't know who the second is going to be. It could be Quiet for all I know. Or Frogger...
Dude...
 

Shroob

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Honestly, even if the leak is fake, I'd still REALLY want Simon Belmont in Smash.

Castlevania is a staple of the NES library and a highly important and influential video game in general.


It almost feels like a crime to NOT include Simon based on his legacy alone.
 

Will

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Honestly, even if the leak is fake, I'd still REALLY want Simon Belmont in Smash.

Castlevania is a staple of the NES library and a highly important and influential video game in general.


It almost feels like a crime to NOT include Simon based on his legacy alone.
That's like saying it's a crime to not include Ryu Hayabusa because of how classic Ninja Gaiden is. Now I actually want him, how dare you do this to me.
 

NonSpecificGuy

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I'd take Simon, Hayabusa, or Raiden. Hell just give me all of 'em.
 

Shroob

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That's like saying it's a crime to not include Ryu Hayabusa because of how classic Ninja Gaiden is. Now I actually want him, how dare you do this to me.
Ryu's a character I'd also want, but when I think of classic 3rd parties on the NES, MegaMan and Simon are almost always the first two that come to mind.
 

Will

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Ryu's a character I'd also want, but when I think of classic 3rd parties on the NES, MegaMan and Simon are almost always the first two that come to mind.
Xander saying two Roy's and two Ryu's would melt my mind in confusion.
 

Pakky

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Ryu Hayabusa is a classic character who has been on a lot of Nintendo consoles Wii U included so... I'm down.
 

DraginHikari

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Who's more evil? Ridley or Ganondorf? My money's on Ridley.

Saw this conversation on another forum so I was curious what other's thought.
It depends on what you define as 'more evil' in a lot of sense. In most portrays Ganondorf is portrayed as a Conquerer and a Dictator... basically a power hungry tyrant, I'm well aware of that scene in Wind Waker, but very rarely is Ganondorf shown as sympathy or remorseful of his actions.

Ridley on the other hand seems to embrace his identity as an utter monster. He seem to embrace violence for violence sake and views himself as a superior being. He's an incredible cruel and sadistic being.

So the question comes to, what is more evil? A power hungry dictator or the monster who just seems to reveal in destruction he causes?
 
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L9999

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Every character returned, now no-one cares if there are clones because "Every character is here", so they can't say "Well, Lucina got in but Mewtwo didn't?!"

etc.


People hate clones when there's a notion that a clone got work over a character that they like didn't, now that everyone's back, and every character from here on out will be new, there's really no reason to hate.
Which in in itself is a fallacy, because programming a clone takes less time of developing than a new character.

I hate this line of thinking so much. The "Oh you guys didn't like this at one time, but now you're happy with it this time? Make up your mind!" It pops up all the time and its utter nonsense. It assumes that the people throwing hatred at the idea then and the ones praising it now are the same groups of people, which is ridiculous. There is still plenty of backlash surrounding clones, it's just that the core fanbase *here* has beaten each other over the head so many times with the information that these characters are "Free dessert" that even those who were against the idea have mellowed over time. Plus, people can change their opinions as they grow and learn more about a subject. That's arguably THE hallmark of maturing, of course the Smash fanbase is going to warm to clone fighters as time passes.

For the record, I have and will always adore clones. I'd sacrifice a full newcomer if we could get a dozen more alternate playstyles in the game. Pichu4life!
Just read threads in this board from this very year before E3. The very same people are now jumping on the echo hype train.
 
D

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Ashley is appearing on WarioWare Gold advertisements in Japan:

4chan thread about it

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE
Another laughable fake 4chan leak
>Vergeben here.
>You probably know me as the person who leaked that Snake and Ridley were going to be revealed for Super Smash Bros Ultimate pre-E3 2018 along with the fact that every past Smash Bros character would return
> I've also revealed the existence of Devil Ma Cry 5 and the Resident Evil 2 remake along with leaking a Switch port of Dragon Ball FighterZ, the existence of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as DLC fighters for Injustice 2
>Here's what I know regarding Smash Bros Ultimate. Take it with a grain of salt:
> Simon Belmont is definitely in the game. Nintendo will be revealing him in a future direct leading up to the Dec. 7th release.
> Minecraft will be receiving representation in some form. Also held off for a future direct.
> More Echo Fighters will be revealed. One of them is a Donkey Kong rep.
>There will be an unexpected character that absolutely nobody will see coming much like Wii Fit Trainer or Duck Hunt in the previous Smash Bros game for 3DS/Wii U
>Master/Crazy Orders from For Wii U returns.
>All Star and Classic modes play about the same as they did in For 3DS/Wii U
>Fountain of Dreams from Melee will return as a revamped stage in Ultimate.
>There will be a stage based on Arms.
>Ultimate much like Smash Bros for 3DS remembers the last alt costume you used the next time you play.
>Young Link's final smash has him turn into Fierce Deity Link. It functions much like how Wario's Final Smash now functions.
>DLC isn't being considered at the moment, but may be a possibility after the games been out for a while.

Vergeben confirms that this isn't him.
Regardless of it being fake, I really fail to see how it's "laughable".
 

StrangeMann

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It depends on what you define as 'more evil' in a lot of sense. In most portrays Ganondorf is portrayed as a Conquerer and a Dictator... basically a power hungry tyrant, I'm well aware of that scene in Wind Waker, but very rarely is Ganondorf shown as sympathy or remorseful of his actions.

Ridley on the other hand seems to embrace his identity as an utter monster. He seem to embrace violence for violence sake and views himself as a superior being. He's an incredible cruel and sadistic being.

So the question comes to, what is more evil? A power hungry dictator or the monster who just seems to reveal in destruction he causes?
Given Ganondorf has been written as a relatable character before (Wind Waker) and Ridley has not, gonna go with Ridley.
Porky Minch is more evil than either though.
 
D

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Well, to be fair, if it was actually Verg, would he really need to say all the stuff that he's leaked in the past? Verg is 'kind' of a big name in the smash speculation scene right now.
So it's not the content itself, but rather because they're trying to claim to be Verge that it's laughable?

I suppose that's fair.
 

Shroob

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So it's not the content itself, but rather because they're trying to claim to be Verge that it's laughable?

I suppose that's fair.
Pretty much.

You wouldn't introduce yourself as "Verg, that guy who's been right about x,y and z", you'd just say "Hey, Verg here".

By saying each and everything you've 'leaked', you come off as trying way too hard.
 

Sharkarat

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my favorite part of that "leak" is
"All Star and Classic modes play about the same as they did in For 3DS/Wii U "
How to Classic play?
 
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Idon

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"Hey, Verg here, I just wanted to tell you guys that you shouldn't believe everything you hear off the internet."
 

Shroob

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"Hey, Verg here, I just wanted to tell you guys that you shouldn't believe everything you hear off the internet."
To be fair, we shouldn't even believe Verg 100% either. Leaks should always be taken with a heavy grain of salt, no matter how truthful they seem.
 

Shroob

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Honestly, I'm just waiting for the first fake picture leaks to roll in.

Text leaks are ****ing boring, even if sometimes you get truthful ones like the infamous "2/10".

Considering Vaanrose was able to make up a mockup of the Smash Ultimate CSS with the characters that we have already, surely someone has to be out there putting in effort for fake picture leaks, right?
 

CodakTheWarrior

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Given Ganondorf has been written as a relatable character before (Wind Waker) and Ridley has not, gonna go with Ridley.
Porky Minch is more evil than either though.
I've never played the earthbound series, so what makes Porky more evil than Ridley and Ganondorf if you don't mind me asking?
 

Skyblade12

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To be fair, we shouldn't even believe Verg 100% either. Leaks should always be taken with a heavy grain of salt, no matter how truthful they seem.
I don’t think they seem that truthful. No one else has any sources whatsoever, but Vergibean has what, four? All conveniently ranked in order of trustworthiness.

My most trustworthy source tells me K. Rool is in the game.
A less trustworthy source told me K. Rool and Isaac are in the game.
A source that has been really hit or miss told me that Tower of Smash is the new mode.

See? Not that hard to do. Put out your predictions, rate them by how likely you think they are, and backtrack from those that don’t make it through as “oh, my source was wrong/lying”.

The source who knew about Snake and ICs, but not “everyone is here”. Who knew Castlevania was coming, but oops it’s not. Who somehow has the entire roster, at a point when everyone else is just guessing.

Yeah, no. He’s just making guesses and getting credit for being a prophet because a bunch of people ignored that half the rosters in the internet predicted Ridley.
 

New_Dumal

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I don’t want King K. Rool at the expense of an unique Dixie Kong.

I want an unique Dixie Kong. I want Dixie to spin with her hair, whip enemies with her hair, float with her hair, grab and throw enemies with her hair.

I don’t want a Diddy echo who acts like Dixie via taunts and idle animations.
This is what I want the most.
But I think the possibility is quite low. It feels like she lost a fandom war to K.Rool. It's sad.
 

MaestroDavros

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What's different to me is how the "echo fighters" have been introduced. Previously clones were never focused on like they have been now, and certainly not this early into development time/public announcements relatively speaking. This says to me that in SSBU clones/echos are not merely something hashed out after a set deadline for unique newcomers, but are something factored in at a much earlier stage. If we assume that Sakurai has been careful, then I can easily see quite a few more of these echo fighters than just the ones already announced, and without making any sacrifices to the amount of unique newcomers that would otherwise be feasible either. I highly doubt that every fighter will receive one (some like Duck Hunt and Greninja for instance are not ideal candidates due to their movesets) but it is not unreasonable to suspect that characters that it is feasible with won't. Also worth noting is that the 3 echo fighters known so far (Daisy for Peach, Lucina for Marth and Dark Pit for Pit) not only all come from the same series, but are connected in some way with the base character they are "echoing". Thus it is very unlikely that any potential echo fighter would be a clone from a completely unconnected series.

I have never really been too bothered by cloned characters TBH. There are plenty of interesting characters out there that are too similar to a base character to be made fully unique (at least to start with) but deserve a chance to be more than an alt skin. As a Daisy fan myself I was disappointed at how she was essentially downgraded from having a slightly unique model for Peach in Melee to being literally a recolor in Brawl and SSB4. At minimum I would have been content with Daisy being given the Melee treatment, but I was ecstatic to see her made into a separate character, and being an echo fighter is absolutely fine by me!
 

Shroob

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I've never played the earthbound series, so what makes Porky more evil than Ridley and Ganondorf if you don't mind me asking?
Porky is basically responsible for not only kidnapping and brainwashing potentially hundreds of characters throughout the Earthbound's timeline, but he's also been indirectly responsible for countless deaths due to the Chimera-tization of the various animals and monstrosities his scientists create, and punishing those harshly that stand up against him.

That, and he basically caused the apocalypse due to all of this ****.
 
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