Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CommanderZaktan]

https://twitter.com/Nintendo/status/996648239846768641?s=19

https://topics.nintendo.co.jp/c/article/06a7f0f8-575b-11e8-b311-063b7ac45a6d.html

Here it is but again, it doesn't say demo. So I'm not sure if its an event or something going over there or there will be a demo for a few days like Mario Tennis

Edit: Just noticed the date, May 16th. Yeah, probably nothing interesting...

New fighter reveal or a new echo fighter?

 

[DGAMER]

On Clones, I have two definitions

Semi-Clones- Character that take most of their aspect from a character, but bring in their own twist with the addition of new moves, different stats, and a unique niche in the meta-game
Clones (Echo Fighters)- Character that takes almost all of their aspects from a character, with the only noticable changes being the model swap, and maybe a different property.

The difference is that each of the semi-clones has a unique niche that changes the playstyle of the character differently. Falco is meant to be played differently from Fox. Dr. Mario is meant to be played differently from Mario. Falcon is meant to be played differently from Ganondorf.

A true clone is when the character can easily be interchangable with it's counterpart. There is no different playstyle for either Pit or Dark Pit. They both play the same. Similary, while there might be slightly different concepts, Lucina plays very similarly if not identical to Marth. (the unique property that Lucina brings is that she has no tipper, which basically eliminates the concept that made Marth unique- Spacing. Lucina is basically a Marth without his niche, and Lucina doesn't bring a unique niche to replace it.)

I theorize that Daisy will play pretty much the same as Peach. There might be a difference, but it wouldn't be enough to change the general playstyle of the character.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Neither Young Link or Toon Link are full clones anymore.

That is precisely what I said.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Is it bad that I'm fine with Echoes, purely because there's now a distinction that puts them as visibly less important characters, unlike the regular and semi-clones?

The idea of echo fighters is okay, as long as the echo fighter amount is kept small. I could see at least one more echo fighter being implemented, and I'm personally thinking that Dry Bowser could work as one.

 

[Idon]

9 newcomers left. 2 are for sure echo fighters.

2) Shadow the Hedgehog/Tails - One of these will be an echo fighter of Sonic. Shadow's missing assist trophy is odd, if we were to see him he'd be two assist trophies for Sonic. Which indicates a desire to represent how prominent and iconic the multiple characters of the series are. So if he doesn't get the Echo treatment. I'm betting Tails will so fans can achieve the long awaited Sonic vs Mario vs Luigi vs Tails match.

9 newcomers left. 2 are for sure echo fighters.

6) Dixie Kong - Diddy's echo fighter. Again? I want more for her. But Sakurai plotted her before. He knows she's wanted and this would be an easy and nice way to appease the demand to grow the Donkey Kong franchise reps. You get a unique newcomer in King K Rool and an echo fighter in Dixie Kong.

The issue with these 2 echos is that they have animations and properties unique to them that they can't copy exactly like other Echos.
Shadow would feel weird copy-pasting Sonic's moveset onto, but it would technically work.
Tails on the other hand would have to deal with having 2 tails he doesn't do anything with and Dixie doesn't have a tail that Diddy uses for some moves and wouldn't use her hair for anything.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

9 newcomers left. 2 are for sure echo fighters.

1) Geno - Longtime fan want. Actions seem taken to appease most every long time Mario request save Waluigi and even he still remains as assist trophy which is better than nothing. Daisy is an echo fighter. Toad's increased involvement in Peach and Daisy's moveset seems to have been for a reason. I'm willing to bet it was to appease Toad fans and because Captain Toad is not coming.

2) Shadow the Hedgehog/Tails - One of these will be an echo fighter of Sonic. Shadow's missing assist trophy is odd, if we were to see him he'd be two assist trophies for Sonic. Which indicates a desire to represent how prominent and iconic the multiple characters of the series are. So if he doesn't get the Echo treatment. I'm betting Tails will so fans can achieve the long awaited Sonic vs Mario vs Luigi vs Tails match.

3) Ashley - Much like Ridley is a western fan dream. Ashley is a Japanese fan dream. I see her getting the bump as an answer for giving us Western fans Ridley. She's also one of the more popular assist trophies not seen just yet, which could mean nothing considering Kat & Ana don't seem to be appearing either, but I have a feeling about this little witch as well.

4) Isabelle - Now the face of her franchise and a verified superstar. Assist trophy is missing. She used to pop out frequently as well, so a little odd we've yet to see her. I'm calling either she's an echo fighter as much as it'd peeve me or she'll be one of our unique fighters. I'm calling it unique as I only see at least two more echo fighters happening.

5) King K. Rool - Another big time fan want like Ridley and Geno. One of the longest requested characters in Smash history. Acknowledged with a Mii Fighter costume last time and most likely placed well in the ballot.

6) Dixie Kong - Diddy's echo fighter. Again? I want more for her. But Sakurai plotted her before. He knows she's wanted and this would be an easy and nice way to appease the demand to grow the Donkey Kong franchise reps. You get a unique newcomer in King K Rool and an echo fighter in Dixie Kong.

7) Elma - Rex & Pyra will be DLC I believe. They came a little too late in my opinion and I believe the action figure was meant to be his replica for her skell.

8) Mimikyu - Gives Sakurai the chance to do three "Pikachus". Highly popular Gen 7 fan favorite. Ghost/fairy and a Pokemon type that we really haven't seen in Smash before.

9) One Unique Third Party Icon Newcomer. This could be Belmont, Rayman, etc. But I do think there will be one true third party icon added for base game.

This is what I'm seeing for the rest of the roster. So speaketh I.

If we go past 9 and were to get 11 my honorable mentions are Isaac and Excitebiker.

In fact I'd put a lot of money on both of those being on Sakurai's radar and plausible along with the guys I listed above.

 

[Starbound]

Speaking of echoes (in multiple ways), how much would the Internet destroy Sakurai if we got both Alm (as a fire-less Roy echo) and Celica as newcomers?

 

[Arcadenik]

-We're getting 12 newcomers, 8 unique, 4 echo (including Inkling, Ridley, and Daisy)

8 unique and 4 echo?

I guess for the future Directs, they will probably reveal 3 newcomers (2 unique, 1 echo) per Direct.

June 2018 E3 - Inkling, Daisy, Ridley
August 2018 Direct - 2 unique, 1 echo
October 2018 Direct - 2 unique, 1 echo
December 2018 Direct - 2 unique, 1 echo

But we will see what happens...

 

[KingIceSonic]

On Clones, I have two definitions

Semi-Clones- Character that take most of their aspect from a character, but bring in their own twist with the addition of new moves, different stats, and a unique niche in the meta-game
Clones (Echo Fighters)- Character that takes almost all of their aspects from a character, with the only noticable changes being the model swap, and maybe a different property.

The difference is that each of the semi-clones has a unique niche that changes the playstyle of the character differently. Falco is meant to be played differently from Fox. Dr. Mario is meant to be played differently from Mario. Falcon is meant to be played differently from Ganondorf.

A true clone is when the character can easily be interchangable with it's counterpart. There is no different playstyle for either Pit or Dark Pit. They both play the same. Similary, while there might be slightly different concepts, Lucina plays very similarly if not identical to Marth. (the unique property that Lucina brings is that she has no tipper, which basically eliminates the concept that made Marth unique- Spacing. Lucina is basically a Marth without his niche, and Lucina doesn't bring a unique niche to replace it.)

I theorize that Daisy will play pretty much the same as Peach. There might be a difference, but it wouldn't be enough to change the general playstyle of the character.

I disagree on the Lucina part, the way that she plays is completely different to Marth. Lucina can be more aggressive since she doesn't suffer a penalty while Marth needs to be more calculative in order to maximize his damage. Pro Marth players try to keep the enemies at bay and have them stay in his tipper range while Lucina pros can up close and personal and does not need to focus on spacing,

It's sort of like a Short range vs Medium Range type of thing. Though that's just my opinion

The issue with these 2 echos is that they have animations and properties unique to them that they can't copy exactly like other Echos.
Shadow would feel weird copy-pasting Sonic's moveset onto, but it would technically work.
Tails on the other hand would have to deal with having 2 tails he doesn't do anything with and Dixie doesn't have a tail that Diddy uses for some moves and wouldn't use her hair for anything.

Diddy Kong actually doesn't use his tail anymore(I think....) they removed his tail jab combo into a regular punch kick. And they let Daisy keep Peach's float ability(Even though Daisy has never floted or had a parosol) so I think that Sakurai doesn't care about the background of some characters.

 

[Zinith]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

 

[Tree Gelbman]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

Samus. Just like back in the day.

 

[Starbound]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

Whichever character gets me closest to unlocking a real character I want to play.

 

[Skyblade12]

The issue with these 2 echos is that they have animations and properties unique to them that they can't copy exactly like other Echos.
Shadow would feel weird copy-pasting Sonic's moveset onto, but it would technically work.
Tails on the other hand would have to deal with having 2 tails he doesn't do anything with and Dixie doesn't have a tail that Diddy uses for some moves and wouldn't use her hair for anything.

Doesn’t Daisy have quite a few unique animations, though?

 

[Zerp]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

Kirby, although it doesn't really matter much, because the first thing I see myself doing is enabling handicap, setting someone to 300%, making the matches 1 stock, and simply grinding until everything is unlocked.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

On Clones, I have two definitions

Semi-Clones- Character that take most of their aspect from a character, but bring in their own twist with the addition of new moves, different stats, and a unique niche in the meta-game
Clones (Echo Fighters)- Character that takes almost all of their aspects from a character, with the only noticable changes being the model swap, and maybe a different property.

The difference is that each of the semi-clones has a unique niche that changes the playstyle of the character differently. Falco is meant to be played differently from Fox. Dr. Mario is meant to be played differently from Mario. Falcon is meant to be played differently from Ganondorf.

A true clone is when the character can easily be interchangable with it's counterpart. There is no different playstyle for either Pit or Dark Pit. They both play the same. Similary, while there might be slightly different concepts, Lucina plays very similarly if not identical to Marth. (the unique property that Lucina brings is that she has no tipper, which basically eliminates the concept that made Marth unique- Spacing. Lucina is basically a Marth without his niche, and Lucina doesn't bring a unique niche to replace it.)

I theorize that Daisy will play pretty much the same as Peach. There might be a difference, but it wouldn't be enough to change the general playstyle of the character.

You're contradicting yourself a bit here:
"Lucina and Marth are played the same."
"Marth has a design element that is the defining trait of how he is played, which Lucina lacks."
You can't call Lucina significantly less niche than Marth and also say the two are almost interchangeable.

Lucina animates identically and does similar things, but they are not played identically to the extent that Pit and Dark Pit are. That clone pair is distinct from every other one in the history of the franchise in that the differences they have between each other may as well be completely semantic.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Speaking of echoes (in multiple ways), how much would the Internet destroy Sakurai if we got both Alm (as a fire-less Roy echo) and Celica as newcomers?

Would rather see them as alts

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

Mario

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

Probably Mario or Pikachu, like the first time around. Depends who is more fun to play as overall.

 

[Idon]

Lucina's deal is, she uses Marth's moveset which is fine-tuned to space out opponents at a close-mid range.
Lucina will still have to space the way Marth does, it's just she'll get less rewards for spacing well and less punishment for spacing poorly.

Lucina players won't rush up to someone's face and smack them silly because their movset and frame data simply don't allow for that. On the other hand, that's the EXACT thing someone like Roy is built for so you'll see them short hopping into someone's face and fairing them all day.

The only time I feel a pro would ever play Lucina would be in matchups where THE ENEMY! is so fast and has so many movement options, that spacing properly is next to impossible (aka Sheik and Sonic)

 

[Chandeelure]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

Kirby, also Pikachu.

 

[Deathcarter]

7) Elma - Rex & Pyra will be DLC I believe. They came a little too late in my opinion and I believe the action figure was meant to be his replica for her skell.

Wasn't that about the action figure's rifle specifically? That could have been about the super scope rather than any potential newcomer.

 

[Idon]

Doesn’t Daisy have quite a few unique animations, though?

All echoes do, but those animations aren't combat related and are purely aesthetic.
So unless Dixie grows a tail or learns to telepathically slap someone with her butt facing the enemy, they're going to make a new attack animation.
And with a new attack animation, means they're probably gonna go the extra mile to make her at least somewhat original like Dr. Mario.

 

[TumblrFamous]

9 newcomers left. 2 are for sure echo fighters.

1) Geno - Longtime fan want. Actions seem taken to appease most every long time Mario request save Waluigi and even he still remains as assist trophy which is better than nothing. Daisy is an echo fighter. Toad's increased involvement in Peach and Daisy's moveset seems to have been for a reason. I'm willing to bet it was to appease Toad fans and because Captain Toad is not coming.

2) Shadow the Hedgehog/Tails - One of these will be an echo fighter of Sonic. Shadow's missing assist trophy is odd, if we were to see him he'd be two assist trophies for Sonic. Which indicates a desire to represent how prominent and iconic the multiple characters of the series are. So if he doesn't get the Echo treatment. I'm betting Tails will so fans can achieve the long awaited Sonic vs Mario vs Luigi vs Tails match.

3) Ashley - Much like Ridley is a western fan dream. Ashley is a Japanese fan dream. I see her getting the bump as an answer for giving us Western fans Ridley. She's also one of the more popular assist trophies not seen just yet, which could mean nothing considering Kat & Ana don't seem to be appearing either, but I have a feeling about this little witch as well.

4) Isabelle - Now the face of her franchise and a verified superstar. Assist trophy is missing. She used to pop out frequently as well, so a little odd we've yet to see her. I'm calling either she's an echo fighter as much as it'd peeve me or she'll be one of our unique fighters. I'm calling it unique as I only see at least two more echo fighters happening.

5) King K. Rool - Another big time fan want like Ridley and Geno. One of the longest requested characters in Smash history. Acknowledged with a Mii Fighter costume last time and most likely placed well in the ballot.

6) Dixie Kong - Diddy's echo fighter. Again? I want more for her. But Sakurai plotted her before. He knows she's wanted and this would be an easy and nice way to appease the demand to grow the Donkey Kong franchise reps. You get a unique newcomer in King K Rool and an echo fighter in Dixie Kong.

7) Elma - Rex & Pyra will be DLC I believe. They came a little too late in my opinion and I believe the action figure was meant to be his replica for her skell.

8) Mimikyu - Gives Sakurai the chance to do three "Pikachus". Highly popular Gen 7 fan favorite. Ghost/fairy and a Pokemon type that we really haven't seen in Smash before.

9) One Unique Third Party Icon Newcomer. This could be Belmont, Rayman, etc. But I do think there will be one true third party icon added for base game.

This is what I'm seeing for the rest of the roster. So speaketh I.

I really like your list, though I am not super high on Geno, but I agree he does have his merits. And I honestly see Impa becoming an echo before Shadow but that's just me. Also, I still cannot see Dixie become an echo fighter, I know they have similar builds and all but it seems really sketch, I can see a semiclone for her but not a full on echo.

Though overall I'd be very happy with this. Ashley, Isabelle, K. Rool, Dixie, and Mimikyu?

 

[Llort A. Ton]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

My first Smash character was Pikachu, but I gotta go with the main monkey

 

[ned_ballad]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

Probably Donkey Kong. Just slam people until I unlock characters like Ganon or Mewtwo that I love playing as.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Wasn't that about the action figure's rifle specifically? That could have been about the super scope rather than any potential newcomer.

But why would they need that for an item that's already been in the series since melee?

 

[Deleted member]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

Probably Kirby, Mario or Link.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

I don't really like any of the original 12 all that much, but I guess Samus

 

[Chandeelure]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Oh my god, Duck Hunt stole Snake's butt!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Oh my god, Duck Hunt stole Snake's butt!

Duck Hunt Dog has been squatting hard

 

[Sonic Poke]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

My 64 main is Fox. Maybe I will use him but he changed so much since then that I don't know. Kirby and Pikachu are also possibilities.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Nah. Falcon stole that thick slab of meat in 4 and refused to give it back when Snake showed up.

Falcon: You loaned it to me.
Snake: Yes, and now I am back and I would like it back.
Falcon: I have used this for things though? Would you really want to have this butt back still?
Snake: ......
Falcon: As I thought. Seriously. What were you thinking when you gave it to me anyways?

 

[Chandeelure]

What is even the point of these leaks that say nothing interesting or surprising.

Remember that leak with the pic of Battlefield that said E3 would have some stuff like Bayonetta's guns, Inkling's weapon and all that?
It was true, but nobody cared, because it was not interesting at all lol.

At least say the name of one character or something.

Just in case you didn't know, I was talking about this leak.

 

[Ze Diglett]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

I don't particularly care for any of the OG 8, but if I were stuck with them until I unlocked anyone else, I guess I'd gravitate to Pikachu. He was the first character I ever picked when I first played Melee when I was 7, so it'd be kind of neat for me to come full circle in that regard - not to mention I hear he's kinda busted in the demo, so that might be fun to mess around with if he maintains that stuff come release. As soon as I unlock Mewtwo, though, I'm done with him.

 

[MBRedboy31]

So assuming the starting roster is the Original 8 only, who will you start as?

My answer speaks for itself.....

It’ll be either my current favorite original 8 character, Kirby, or my original favorite original 8 character, Pikachu (I just spammed Thunder back in the day, I thought I was so good, ahaha... his new Nair looks fun tho.)

Edit: Might try something else, though, why retread the same ground, right? We’ll see how I’m feeling when I actually get the game.

 

[Arcadenik]

Duck Hunt Dog has been squatting hard

Of course he did. Why do you think he was able to stand and walk on two legs?

He learned from the best.

 

[KingIceSonic]

Are there any Waluigi fans here?

And if there are I am curious as to how you guys felt when Sakurai basically said "I didn't add him in because I thought his fans were just trolling and don't really like him"

I am not a Waluigi fan and this annoyed the heck out of me.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Don't wanna come off as too controversial here but seriously, the lack of people even giving Bandanna Dee a mention when talking newcomers is depressing.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Are there any Waluigi fans here?

And if there are I am curious as to how you guys felt when Sakurai basically said "I didn't add him in because I thought his fans were just trolling and don't really like him"

I am not a Waluigi fan and this annoyed the heck out of me.

Wait, what? Where he did remotely say this?

 

[SquashiniKun]

Here's what i think the roster would be like if that i previously posted leak were true:
1. Inkling
2. Ridley
3. Elma - The model he bought for the gun reminds me of a skell, so that's what i'm going with.
4. Chorus Kids - They were previously considered for Smash 4
5. Ayumi Tachibana - Same as CK but replace Smash 4 with Melee
6. Gen 7 Pokemon
7. Daisy
8. Tom Nook (Echo Clone of Villager) - With the whole website datamine thing, a second animal crossing rep seems plausible.
9. Chrom (Echo Fighter of Ike) - Fits in to the highly requested categories
10. Simon Belmont
11. Geno - Fits the bill of both previously considered and highly requested categories.
12. 3rd Party Echo Fighter

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Are there any Waluigi fans here?

And if there are I am curious as to how you guys felt when Sakurai basically said "I didn't add him in because I thought his fans were just trolling and don't really like him"

I am not a Waluigi fan and this annoyed the heck out of me.

I'm seeing this everywhere, but haven't seen the source of it. Where did he say this?