Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zeox]

I just hope there is a better final boss than Master Core.
Never liked it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If the screen doesn't accommodate for the amount of newcomers we're getting...then they'll just alter the layout?

There's one thing I would like them to do is keep some order there. I'm not going to ascribe to the various conspiracy theories about how many slots etc - I think one of the previous ones from Sm4sh did change the aspect ratio of the slots since Zelda's portrait cut off slightly higher in one version than the other - but Sm4sh's CSS was all kinds of a disaster. DLC all over? Clones at the bottom? Zelda series ended one line and started the next?

I hope they either organize based on series, or even stick with the numbering scheme they've been using since it makes sense.

I believe that the echoes will have their own slot - DP and Lucy did, and Alph's still an alt costume evidently - but I do expect the Miis to share. Would be interesting to see if the Miis will also be in all-star mode since they have numbers now, or if they'll still not even show in the CSS until you make one.

 

[Jubileus57]

Nintendo is my ****ing life and I still forgot Electroplankton was a thing for several years until you brought it up. I still never found out what kind of game it was and what system it was for.
Did it ever even truly exist?

Yup it did and I own it ^^

It is some sort of musical toy where you can "create" music with the help of the cutest plankton thingies you'll ever see in your life. It launched on the DS in 2005.

And it is the only main universe missing from Ultimate for now (besides Miiverse) and I hope to heck it will not stay that way.

 

[Ultinarok]

Avalugg

This is 50% a highly clever joke and 50% a legitimately good idea. Props.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

However, six rows of twelve would leave seven slots open for newcomers, for 75 fighters total. This would also leave the original twelve starting roster at the top. It's a long-shot, but I think seven more unrevealed fighters, clones or not, may be the sweet spot. There's five full months in-between now and the December launch, so if what I'm calling the "Seven Slot Theory" holds up, then maybe we'll see five more newcomers across each month, with two of those months showing an Echo fighter. Perhaps from the same series the newcomer they're revealed with is from?

Spoiler

Then I suppose this tickles your fancy? You might want to ignore Simon though, that was something my friend Alex13art did due to his likeness to be included

 

[?????????????]

Avalugg

I was gonna say Crustle, but I think Avalugg's a better one.

 

[T-Hell]

I wouldn't be surprised if Impa is one of the newcomers, she would probably have her Hyrule Warriors design, which is probably the coolest and also a way to represent that game, plus the fact that Sakurai wanted to represent Zelda characters this time with a design from different games.

 

[RetroMetalSonic]

On the topic of Echo Fighters, I think everyone is forgetting the best possible option.

 

[AlphaSSB]

Spoiler

Then I suppose this tickles your fancy? You might want to ignore Simon though, that was something my friend Alex13art did due to his likeness to be included

Looks almost exactly how I have mine set up. Only make Simon Belmont a '?' and the last '?' on the right the random icon.

 

[ned_ballad]

How do you guys feel about Tingle?

I only bring him up because he's missing as an Assist Trophy and missing from all shots of Great Bay, INCLUDING the shot of Melee's Great Bay.

And while it's entirely possible to "kill" Tingle in Melee via popping him over water, why would they do such a niche thing every single shot of the stage? It appears quite a lot in the trailer and Tingle is missing in every one of them.

Tingle recently appeared in Hyrule Warriors, first as DLC, and then as a regular character in the ports. They were hesitant to add him due to backlash against him before, but he was welcomed into Hyrule Warriors with no fuss, so the hate against him seems to have cooled since the early 2000s.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Also, note that most of the newcomers might be secret characters.

Many people pre-smash 4 and brawl made this mistake as well. They aren't going to confirm EVERY newcomer as a starter, as some may be unlockable and hidden until the game releases.

Also, the website has a "pic of the day" or Brawl dojo thing where they show something everyday, so I'd be on the lookout on there as well.

All of them are secret characters

Sakurai said the starters are the original 12 from 64

 

[Pacack]

There's one thing I would like them to do is keep some order there. I'm not going to ascribe to the various conspiracy theories about how many slots etc - I think one of the previous ones from Sm4sh did change the aspect ratio of the slots since Zelda's portrait cut off slightly higher in one version than the other - but Sm4sh's CSS was all kinds of a disaster. DLC all over? Clones at the bottom? Zelda series ended one line and started the next?

I hope they either organize based on series, or even stick with the numbering scheme they've been using since it makes sense.

I believe that the echoes will have their own slot - DP and Lucy did, and Alph's still an alt costume evidently - but I do expect the Miis to share. Would be interesting to see if the Miis will also be in all-star mode since they have numbers now, or if they'll still not even show in the CSS until you make one.

I agree that the CSS was a disaster before. Personally, I like it ordered as so:

Row 1. Mario, Donkey Kong, Punch Out, Game and Watch (Arcade/Pre-NES)
Row 2. Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, R.O.B., Duck Hunt (Early NES)
Row 3. Fire Emblem, Kirby, Star Fox, F-Zero, Mother (Late NES, Early SNES and Gameboy)
Row 4. Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Wii Fit, Xenoblade, Splatoon. (Late Gameboy, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U)
Row 5. Pac-Man, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Mega Man, Sonic, FFVII, Bayonetta, Miis, Random (Third Parties and Miis)

Obviously, accomodations can be made if need be, but in general series debut works well.

 

[?????????????]

On the topic of Echo Fighters, I think everyone is forgetting the best possible option.

I actually brought this up yesterday! It was a half-joke, but the idea was Slippy as a Fox echo, and Peppy as a Falco echo. Then, we'd have the whole team!

 

[AlphaSSB]

On the topic of Echo Fighters, I think everyone is forgetting the best possible option.

With Krystal deconfirmed, Slippy has moved up into my #1 Most Wanted Newcomer spot. However, I don't think he'd work as an Echo fighter. Slippy doesn't fit Fox's, Falco's, or Wolf's body structure, and would have to be built from the ground up. He would make for an excellent newcomer though, making use of weapons and gadgets from Star Fox: Assault and Star Fox Guard.

 

[?????????????]

How do you guys feel about Tingle?

Actually...I think Tingle would be a really fun newcomer!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

How do you guys feel about Tingle?

I only bring him up because he's missing as an Assist Trophy and missing from all shots of Great Bay, INCLUDING the shot of Melee's Great Bay.

And while it's entirely possible to "kill" Tingle in Melee via popping him over water, why would they do such a niche thing every single shot of the stage? It appears quite a lot in the trailer and Tingle is missing in every one of them.

Tingle recently appeared in Hyrule Warriors, first as DLC, and then as a regular character in the ports. They were hesitant to add him due to backlash against him before, but he was welcomed into Hyrule Warriors with no fuss, so the hate against him seems to have cooled since the early 2000s.

Slightly OT, but I am so happy to see this stage return. Great Bay was awesome, and now the whole thing in HD looks wonderful.

May also be a bit easier to work with since swimming is a thing now. In Melee, it was really easy to get trapped under the laboratory and unable to recover. Here, we may be able to actually swim from the Owl statue to the islet on the left as a technique (or way to circle camp)

On topic: Tingle though... ehh... I've got Squirtle and Ridley so I'm not going to begrudge any characters, but you'll have to give me K.Rool and Dovahkiin to be able to celebrate that guy.

 

[Irarius]

again i missed about 30 pages or so, however i hear more and more about certain missing things in the game that could indicate echo characters
such as
Dark Samus, her colour swap has been changed to be the phazon suit from prime 1, instead of dark samus, which is weard, also she hasnt been seen as an assist
Shadow since his assist is aparently not in the demo ( this one means not much since thats less then DS has)
having both as echoes would make sense
dark samus less floaty then samus, and thus a bit faster with maybe a changed charge shot, maybe no knockback but a stun or something

shadow a slower version of sonic with more knockback ? maybe better controllable due to his boots or something?

i could totaly see those changes making them worth as echoes, they also would make ppl happy

as for other newcomers, i have no idea i could totaly see Simon making it,
Sora? i mean totaly possible ( i heard that disney is cool with him in smash but i cant confirm that)
banjo kazui and rayman both had their owners say, yeah they would be okay with it during smash 4

K K rool can see also becaus DK villain
dixie echo makes propably not much sense movewise, but as a roster rep
chorus and geno because of sakurai if he wants to push them in,

as for others it will get hard. i have no idea who else
since waluigi was a number 1 candidate

 

[Pacack]

Spoiler

Then I suppose this tickles your fancy? You might want to ignore Simon though, that was something my friend Alex13art did due to his likeness to be included

Oh, boy, I'm not sure how I feel about this one. For anyone without prior knowledge of the series' newcomer order, this just looks disorganized.

 

[Zeox]

Is still very bizarre for me to live in a world where everyone talks about Ridley being in smash like is not a big deal.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

I agree that the CSS was a disaster before. Personally, I like it ordered as so:

Row 1. Mario, Donkey Kong, Punch Out, Game and Watch (Arcade/Pre-NES)
Row 2. Legend of Zelda, Metroid, Kid Icarus, R.O.B., Duck Hunt (Early NES)
Row 3. Fire Emblem, Kirby, Star Fox, F-Zero, Mother (Late NES, Early SNES and Gameboy)
Row 4. Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Wii Fit, Xenoblade, Splatoon. (Late Gameboy, N64, Gamecube, Wii, Wii U)
Row 5. Pac-Man, Metal Gear, Street Fighter, Mega Man, Sonic, FFVII, Bayonetta, Miis, Random (Third Parties and Miis)

Obviously, accomodations can be made if need be, but in general series debut works well.

I would definitely be satisfied if they layered the roster this way.

 

[PlayerOneTyler]

I just realized the post today on the Smash Blog has two images for Alolan Vulpix:

Spoiler: Alolan Vulpix

 

[majorasmaskfan]

Princess Ruto was also in Hyrule warriors where's hoping we get her as a superior zora rep.

 

[Irarius]

Is still very bizarre for me to live in a world where everyone talks about Ridley being in smash like is not a big deal.

though i don see many talk about him... i see many talk about waluigi not beeing in, the inklings, or other small changes to the game itself, also many many cry about the direct, to me its like, yeah hes in, nobody rly cares.

however i am happy to hear that he aparently is alot of fun to play, and is good but not op. thats what i like to hear

 

[MasterOfKnees]

How do you guys feel about Tingle?

I only bring him up because he's missing as an Assist Trophy and missing from all shots of Great Bay, INCLUDING the shot of Melee's Great Bay.

And while it's entirely possible to "kill" Tingle in Melee via popping him over water, why would they do such a niche thing every single shot of the stage? It appears quite a lot in the trailer and Tingle is missing in every one of them.

Tingle recently appeared in Hyrule Warriors, first as DLC, and then as a regular character in the ports. They were hesitant to add him due to backlash against him before, but he was welcomed into Hyrule Warriors with no fuss, so the hate against him seems to have cooled since the early 2000s.

I feel like Tingle had to happen quite a few years ago if ever, he's nowhere nearly as prominent as he used to be, and his competition has only gotten stronger. If we do indeed get fewer newcomers this time around then I also have a hard time seeing Tingle being one of the chosen few, it's true he's not as hated as he used to be, but including him in that scenario still carries some risk of heavy criticism. Like, imagine us waiting for a newcomer reveal for ~a month only for them to give us Tingle, this place would fall apart.

It's interesting how many notable ATs are missing though, it might just be a case of them only including a select few for the demo, but maybe they could be used for a new mode or something?

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

Oh, boy, I'm not sure how I feel about this one. For anyone without prior knowledge of the series' newcomer order, this just looks disorganized.

Well, it is in order in the E3 demo, so I'll assume it will be the same in the full game, unless they are changing them around for no reason.

It would be cool if there was a "Order by" option though

 

[Cutie Gwen]

again i missed about 30 pages or so, however i hear more and more about certain missing things in the game that could indicate echo characters
such as
Dark Samus, her colour swap has been changed to be the phazon suit from prime 1, instead of dark samus, which is weard, also she hasnt been seen as an assist
Shadow since his assist is aparently not in the demo ( this one means not much since thats less then DS has)
having both as echoes would make sense
dark samus less floaty then samus, and thus a bit faster with maybe a changed charge shot, maybe no knockback but a stun or something

shadow a slower version of sonic with more knockback ? maybe better controllable due to his boots or something?

i could totaly see those changes making them worth as echoes, they also would make ppl happy

as for other newcomers, i have no idea i could totaly see Simon making it,
Sora? i mean totaly possible ( i heard that disney is cool with him in smash but i cant confirm that)
banjo kazui and rayman both had their owners say, yeah they would be okay with it during smash 4

K K rool can see also becaus DK villain
dixie echo makes propably not much sense movewise, but as a roster rep
chorus and geno because of sakurai if he wants to push them in,

as for others it will get hard. i have no idea who else
since waluigi was a number 1 candidate

Two things. 1: Meta Ridley isn't in the demo meaning some palletes may just not be available for some reason
2: That's not the Phazon suit, the visor's colour is wrong

 

[Will]

If you can't get Waluigi, you might as well hope for Tingle I guess.

 

[Captain Fun]

This is so weird. Why would they only reveal behind closed doors and put an enbargo on the press??? What's the point then :/

My guess is that it'll get a reveal in a future direct if it's a Nintendo Switch game, and then maybe we will finally see Simon. Still seems fishy to me.

The embargo actually lifts Wednesday.

Two Castlevania games are rumored at the moment. A new game, and a compilation, both multiplatform. I guess we'll see.

 

[Bowserlick]

I like many of the choices for the next Smash.

Why doesn't Snake have his landmine Down Smash. It was awesome.
Now he has tiny shin kicks instead!?

 

[Will]

Why doesn't Snake have his landmine Down Smash. It was awesome.
Now he has tiny shin kicks instead!?

I never really linked the landmine much, but the twin kicks isn't really a good replacement.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I like many of the choices for the next Smash.

Why doesn't Snake have his landmine Down Smash. It was awesome.
Now he has tiny shin kicks instead!?

It's probably to balance it out more. Having access to C4 AND landmines is a bit much, though the new one lets him punish rolling easier I guess

 

[osby]

I like many of the choices for the next Smash.

Why doesn't Snake have his landmine Down Smash. It was awesome.
Now he has tiny shin kicks instead!?

He already had a lot of explosives already.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Guys, you're over-analyzing.

1. The character select screen has literally never been a reliable indicator of how many characters we're going to get. If the screen doesn't accommodate for the amount of newcomers we're getting...then they'll just alter the layout? The CSS does not determine how many characters we get.

2. The idea that the number of newcomers we have left is equal to the number of months left before the game's release is baseless. We have no idea how they'll be revealing newcomers, and we have no reason to suspect that we don't have secret unlockables again. Don't overthink it.

^This times one million
One thing that easily debunks the entire notion that the roster layout determines the amount of characters is the fact that’s Sakurai has stated he made multiple late-stage character additions.

If he made up a layout, then decided “ok, how many characters can I fit in this grid,” he wouldn’t be able to toss in characters like Lucina and Dark Pit last minute because it would throw it all off.

How do you guys feel about Tingle?

I only bring him up because he's missing as an Assist Trophy and missing from all shots of Great Bay, INCLUDING the shot of Melee's Great Bay.

And while it's entirely possible to "kill" Tingle in Melee via popping him over water, why would they do such a niche thing every single shot of the stage? It appears quite a lot in the trailer and Tingle is missing in every one of them.

Tingle recently appeared in Hyrule Warriors, first as DLC, and then as a regular character in the ports. They were hesitant to add him due to backlash against him before, but he was welcomed into Hyrule Warriors with no fuss, so the hate against him seems to have cooled since the early 2000s.

While I could see Tingle happening, I’m not so sure.

I think that if most, if not all, of this game’s newcomers are decided by fan demand like peopl are speculating, the other MIA Zelda assist trophy, Skull Kid, is more likely.

Tingle’s absence on Great Bay could be explained by his inclusion as an assist trophy, which would put him on the same field as Skull Kid. I do think one of them will get in though, but I’m not sure, just leaning towards Skull Kid because his popularity seems higher.

 

[RandomAce]

Speculation at this point:

Ridley can’t be in Smash anymore, he’s too BIG!

There will be CUTS! Young Link, and Pichu will never come back!

Sakurai said to not expect too many newcomers! There will only be 5-7 of them!

 

[Zeox]

If K. Rool was added, what stage would you like to be added?

Gang-Plank Galleon:

Flying krock:

Kastle KAOS:

 

[Will]

Speculation at this point:

Ridley can’t be in Smash anymore, he’s too BIG!
View attachment 148476

There will be CUTS! Young Link, and Pichu will never come back!
View attachment 148478

Sakurai said to not expect too many newcomers! There will only be 5-7 of them!
View attachment 148479(There are 12 newcomers in Smash Ultimate excluding echoes).

I know this is a joke but I honestly didn't understand any of it.

 

[Zerp]

If K. Rool was added, what stage would you like to be added?

Gang-Plank Galleon:
View attachment 148480

Flying krock:
View attachment 148481

Kastle KAOS:
View attachment 148482

Gangplank galleon, pirate ships are cool.

 

[Irarius]

Two things. 1: Meta Ridley isn't in the demo meaning some palletes may just not be available for some reason
2: That's not the Phazon suit, the visor's colour is wrong

1 meta ridley might not be in the demo but ridley still has an impressiv amount of colours, his meta form might be like marios wedding and builder outfit, so yeah, not neccesary a reason to assume that since i believe samus has it straight replaced
2 this IS the black phazon suit from prime 1, its just not the REAL version since this suit is based on other m, and in general her palet swaps are fked up to some degree because of that

 

[CaptainAmerica]

If K. Rool was added, what stage would you like to be added?

Gang-Plank Galleon:
View attachment 148480

Flying krock:
View attachment 148481

Kastle KAOS:
View attachment 148482

Several people have pointed out that one of the few stages we haven't seen yet is

Could there be another Pirate Ship on the horizon...? Or is it even being saved in case K.Rool pulls a Ridley and gets one of his most famous alternate looks as an alt costume...?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

How do you guys feel about Tingle?

I only bring him up because he's missing as an Assist Trophy and missing from all shots of Great Bay, INCLUDING the shot of Melee's Great Bay.

And while it's entirely possible to "kill" Tingle in Melee via popping him over water, why would they do such a niche thing every single shot of the stage? It appears quite a lot in the trailer and Tingle is missing in every one of them.

Tingle recently appeared in Hyrule Warriors, first as DLC, and then as a regular character in the ports. They were hesitant to add him due to backlash against him before, but he was welcomed into Hyrule Warriors with no fuss, so the hate against him seems to have cooled since the early 2000s.

I really hope Tingle doesn't get in as a playable character. I don't even hate the guy, but I don't want him in Smash, either.

It's possible that his Assist Trophy hasn't been completed yet or just isn't in the E3 build of the game. We can say the same about many other missing ATs for the time being.