Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

Just wanted to take a moment to say: "If you want a smaller competitive stagelist, stick to Smash 4!"

I, and my friend group, are soooo sick of day long Battlefield/Smashville sessions. Make 12 legal stages at a minimum in my opinion. I don't care if we have to completely adjust how we strike stages.

The competitive stages in 4 have gotten so bland and boring to look at that I can't wait to play on a hazardless Pokemon Stadium for a change.

Smash 4 made me hate the Animal Crossing stages so much.

I'm so happy we will have such a great stage list for Ultimate.

 

[Zeox]

Smash 4 made me hate the Animal Crossing stages so much.

I'm so happy we will have such a great stage list for Ultimate.

84 stages and we still don't have almost any new stages.
So many stages, so many choices.

 

[Murlough]

Smash 4 made me hate the Animal Crossing stages so much.

I'm so happy we will have such a great stage list for Ultimate.

I'm hoping we do too. The Animal Crossing stages and Battlefield are still my favorite but am still very sick of playing them all the time.

I'm not expecting 25+ competitive stages or anything but more than 10 would just be amazing.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Wow, this thread moves way too fast...

random thought:

you can now K.O. assist trophies... will we be FIGHTING assist trophies in some one player mode or possibly smash run or something?

So does this mean that KOable Assists will show in the results screen? Remember Riddles did in Sm4sh if you got him on Pyroshpere...
So, character icons for assists?

Also vs. assist events would be awesome. Would still like more detailed character icons though. Not a fan of the minimalist ones.

Todays Item
Pokèmon - Vulpix (Alola Form)
This Pokèmon freezes fighters with icy breath.

View attachment 148455

I'm still salty over that fake leak that offered a water-type Growlithe. Mah boi needs some love too

 

[Pakky]

So of the villains we have left from all the Nintendo franchises we got

Medusa/Hades
Porky/Gygas
Rool
Dark Matter?
DJ Octavio
and... is that it?

 

[Jubileus57]

84 stages and we still don't have almost any new stages.
So many stages, so many choices.

Who knows, maybe even all the old ones will be back. I personally sure hope so.

And even if not all of them return, there is no way in hell all of them old stages were shown. We haven't seen Fountain of Dreams yet . EVERYONE has been begging for its return for 2 games, it is not possible the team had not heard about it. (And there is also the unacceptable cut of the entire Electroplankton Universe)

 

[Zeox]

Who knows, maybe even all the old ones will be back. I personally sure hope so.

And even if not all of them return, there is no way in hell all of them old stages were shown. We haven't seen Fountain of Dreams yet . EVERYONE has been begging for its return for 2 games, it is not possible the team had not heard about it. (And there is also the unacceptable cut of the entire Electroplankton Universe)

But what if this stage returns:

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So of the villains we have left from all the Nintendo franchises we got

Medusa/Hades
Porky/Gygas
Rool
Dark Matter?
DJ Octavio
and... is that it?

Lots of anime villains

Smash 4 made me hate the Animal Crossing stages so much.

I'm so happy we will have such a great stage list for Ultimate.

I don’t want to see another AC stage other than the island ever again

84 stages and we still don't have almost any new stages.
So many stages, so many choices.

If they bring back Fountain of Dreams...it’s all over

But what if this stage returns:
View attachment 148470

new tournament stage confirmed

 

[SlickWylde]

So what do you guys think of the new game so far, regarding gameplay? (there's actually quite a bit of gameplay on youtube, full matches and stuff)

Here's my take on some of the new stuff:

Perfect Shielding: This seems like a good addition for the competitive scene. Not only does it reward skill, but the effects create a satisfying feeling, and will also cause fans to become excited while watching.

Radar: Whenever a character goes off screen, a radar appears at either the right or left side of the screen. I thought this was something placed there simply for testing purposes, but the tree-house staff were talking about it as if it were a new feature. The idea of having a radar to help show where you are will increase stage awareness and blast zone locations, but I do not like the way this looks. I hope this is either removed or graphically changed to be more aesthetically pleasing.

Rolling: The more a player rolls, the more this gives them diminishing returns. This discourages players from lazy game play, and gives aggressive opponents more read opportunities. Overall I believe this is a great change.

Directional Air Dodging: The new directional air dodging gives players a chance to escape certain combos and situations, which would have been impossible in Smash 4. However, the player takes a risk when doing a directional air dodge, because it now takes longer to act out of this. This presents players with a risk/reward scenario: A player can choose to directional air dodge away from an airborne opponent. This might allow them to escape death. But if the other player reads this option, it will spell certain doom, because they will be unable to react to their punish. This is a good change that should help with the slow paced matches that we often saw in Smash 4.

Overall, I think Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is adding a lot of great mechanics which will not only help this become an ESport, but will also keep "Casual" play fast and fun for all players.

 

[Jubileus57]

But what if this stage returns:
View attachment 148470

I'd be very happy :D And I am not the only one.

 

[Zeox]

So of the villains we have left from all the Nintendo franchises we got

Medusa/Hades
Porky/Gygas
Rool
Dark Matter?
DJ Octavio
and... is that it?

Well there are more villains from other games, but they are usually either an one game villain (like in kirby) or not very interesting.
Or they are already assist trophies, like Andross or Waluigi.

 

[Nekoo]

Directional Air Dodging: The new directional air dodging gives players a chance to escape certain combos and situations, which would have been impossible in Smash 4. However, the player takes a risk when doing a directional air dodge, because it now takes longer to act out of this. This presents players with a risk/reward scenario: A player can choose to directional air dodge away from an airborne opponent. This might allow them to escape death. But if the other player reads this option, it will spell certain doom, because they will be unable to react to their punish. This is a good change that should help with the slow paced matches that we often saw in Smash 4.

My only problem with it is that Characters get into freefall for a little bit too much imo-
When Characters like Sonic have an hard time recovering off-stage after an Directional Airdodge and we got two SDI in an invitational with top player Because of how long we have to wait, I think it's not a good thing.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Given that no third-party characters nor any Ice Climber/ZSS/WFT-style curveball characters were shown at E3 unlike the reveal trailer for the previous games, I wonder what that means for huge third-party characters like Steve and Sora, or for how much popularity will really affect the newcomer roster.

 

[Zeox]

Here a comparative of the image with all the characters, with and without Ridley:

Spoiler

 

[Nekoo]

Given that no third-party characters nor any Ice Climber/ZSS/WFT-style curveball characters were shown at E3 unlike the reveal trailer for the previous games, I wonder what that means for huge third-party characters like Steve and Sora, or for how much popularity will really affect the newcomer roster.

I'm now 99% sure that if there a third party, it will get reveal either during a Smash direct. Or Sakurai learned from the Corrin/Bayonetta fiasco and he'll make the big third party (Cloud) the last reveal for maximum surprise

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Considering Sakurai and his teams' skillset, I think 7 more new characters (A mix of unique and echo, in addition to Ridley, Inkling and Daisy) is completley do-able. A sizable ammount, but still the least weve seen in a Smash game, so it would fit Sakurais statement of not many. Assuming Verge is correct, I could see the list turning out something along these lines
1. K. Rool (fan demand)
2. Simon Belmont (Verges main claim)
3. Banjo & Kazooie (It would tie in with Verges Minecraft claim, and I believe the Bomberman AT was decided when getting Snakes rights so maybe MC content was made when getting Banjos rights)
4. Either Rayman or Geno, but Im leaning towards Geno (both have seen their fair share of demand)
5. Impa (Echo, many Zelda characters may have done well on the Ballot, so Sakurai could answer with this)
6. Dixie Kong (Echo, I know there is much she could do on her own and id like her to be unique too but there is nothing Diddy does that she couldnt do besides the now removed tail attacks)
7. Shadow (Echo, and probably very popular among casual players and Sonic fans)
That may be a lot of 3rd parties l, but I think these choices reflect big picks from the ballot. Other picks that are very possible are Elma, BWD, and Ashley.

On another note, Im amazed they found a way to put over 80+ levels, 70~ characters, and God knows how much music, trophies, items etc on the Switch cartridge. If this game doesnt need an aditional download, ill be really impresed.

 

[SuperMasterHand]

Could this be the icon of Hazard OFF ?
Does anyone know ?

 

[Jubileus57]

Here a comparative of the image with all the characters, with and without Ridley:

Spoiler

View attachment 148471
View attachment 148472

* and Daisy

I like how they will update this wonderful image with all the newcomers so I can see all my dearests together <3

 

[Pakky]

* and Daisy

I like how they will update this wonderful image with all the newcomers so I can see all my dearests together <3

So huh echoes are going to be on the roster I guess

Doesn't say whether or not this includes Echoes or not.
In addition, according to resetera it seems likely the new castlevania game was shown behind closed doors yesterday, which seems to grant a bit more legitimacy to what he's saying:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ko...ion-and-other-stuff.47053/page-9#post-9226423

Yeah I believe this

 

[Jubileus57]

So huh echoes are going to be on the roster I guess

I meant on a piece of artworks ^^ CSSs are alright but this picture is even more pleasing to the eyes

But don't worry I am well aware I am a little weird XD

 

[Pakky]

I meant on a piece of artworks ^^ CSSs are alright but this picture is even more pleasing to the eyes

But don't worry I am well aware I am a little weird XD

I mean I think echoes on the CSS wouldn't be to much of a bad thing

Spoiler: belmont

Kinda like this version of Belmont

 

[Jubileus57]

I mean I think echoes on the CSS wouldn't be to much of a bad thing.

Since the clones on the CSS were already their own thing in Sm4sh, I'd guess it will stay that way in Ulimate. It would be quite the bummer if they were not. They aren't "mere" Palette Swaps after all.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Here a comparative of the image with all the characters, with and without Ridley:

Spoiler

View attachment 148471
View attachment 148472

Huh I didn't realize they straight up moved Duck Hunt out of the way. Maybe they will continue to add characters to the mural. That'll be cool to see finished!

On the topic of the Castlevania game, apparently, Konami showed something behind closed doors yesterday, according to Gamekult.

This is so weird. Why would they only reveal behind closed doors and put an enbargo on the press??? What's the point then :/

My guess is that it'll get a reveal in a future direct if it's a Nintendo Switch game, and then maybe we will finally see Simon. Still seems fishy to me.

 

[Zeox]

Huh I didn't realize they straight up moved Duck Hunt out of the way. Maybe they will continue to add characters to the mural. That'll be cool to see finished!

They also moved Metaknight, which probably means that characters are gonna move and get out of the way of future characters

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Here a comparative of the image with all the characters, with and without Ridley:

Spoiler

View attachment 148471
View attachment 148472

So it seems they have a BG and each character (or a group of them) are individual overlays they can shove around. MK and DHD shifted a bit for Riddles to get in

...so does this mean that we'll get an updated one with each new character? There's definitely room that could be made. There's room next to Daisy by covering up Mewtwo's foot, and there's also some space behind Inkling in front of Rosie's dress. Robin could also shift in front of DDD to give more room under DHD...

Next step: get K.Rool on.

 

[SlickWylde]

My only problem with it is that Characters get into freefall for a little bit too much imo-
When Characters like Sonic have an hard time recovering off-stage after an Directional Airdodge and we got two SDI in an invitational with top player Because of how long we have to wait, I think it's not a good thing.

Hmm. I think it is a good thing, actually. In Sm4sh, I think returning to stage was TOO easy. Now, it's challenging again. I feel like most of the time people died in Melee, it was because they couldn't return to stage. In Sm4sh, the only time this happened is if you were someone with a bad recovery like cloud. Sm4sh seemed to focus a little too much on finishing opponents with Smash attacks, so I'm actually looking forward to more edgeguarding and dying off the bottom. Maybe it could be reduced a little though, I'm not sure.

 

[TheHumanSonikku]

Also, note that most of the newcomers might be secret characters.

Many people pre-smash 4 and brawl made this mistake as well. They aren't going to confirm EVERY newcomer as a starter, as some may be unlockable and hidden until the game releases.

Also, the website has a "pic of the day" or Brawl dojo thing where they show something everyday, so I'd be on the lookout on there as well.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Wonder if we'll get any significant stage changes. More Pokemon for Poke Floats? Mother 3 memories for Magicant?

Sure would be weird to see Squritle fight on top of a giant Squirtle. Maybe they can change it to Wartortle.

 

[SuperMasterHand]

A minor detail :
I don't know if people have noticed but in the result screen now, the announcer doesn't say ''the winner is ... MARIO'' anymore but ''MARIO, wins''
It's strange that they changed the order, I think it's the first time in Smash that the character's name come before the phrase.
I like the change, it feels like a classic fighting game, ala Mortal Kombat

 

[T-Hell]

Man, I'm starting to think that every stage may come back as well.

A minor detail :
I don't know if people have noticed but in the result screen now, the announcer doesn't say ''the winner is ... MARIO'' anymore but ''MARIO, wins''
It's strange that they changed the order, I think it's the first time in Smash that the character's name come before the phrase.
I like the change, it feels like a classic fighting game, ala Mortal Kombat

Yeah I noticed that as well. I don't like it, it's anticlimatic imo. But here we receive the game with an spanish announcer so whatevs.

 

[StrangeMann]

Huh I didn't realize they straight up moved Duck Hunt out of the way. Maybe they will continue to add characters to the mural. That'll be cool to see finished!


This is so weird. Why would they only reveal behind closed doors and put an enbargo on the press??? What's the point then :/

My guess is that it'll get a reveal in a future direct if it's a Nintendo Switch game, and then maybe we will finally see Simon. Still seems fishy to me.

People on resetera thought that either they had no gameplay to show to the public or want to release the information whenever the next season of the TV show comes around

 

[AlphaSSB]

Put on your tinfoil hats, because I've got a long-shot theory. Although I know the CSS doesn't impact roster creation, I went ahead and recreated the roster based on the website. With Pokemon Trainer and Mii Fighters taking one slot each, I can make five full rows of thirteen, without any blank slots for newcomers. 68 fighters total.

However, six rows of twelve would leave seven slots open for newcomers, for 75 fighters total. This would also leave the original twelve starting roster at the top. It's a long-shot, but I think seven more unrevealed fighters, clones or not, may be the sweet spot. There's five full months in-between now and the December launch, so if what I'm calling the "Seven Slot Theory" holds up, then maybe we'll see five more newcomers across each month, with two of those months showing an Echo fighter. Perhaps from the same series the newcomer they're revealed with is from?

Like I said, it's a long-shot, but something about it just feels right to me. Sakurai was hoping we weren't expecting too many newcomers, and so with Inklings, Ridley, and five more non-clone newcomers, that leaves seven total. Not too many, I'd say. I don't think Sakurai considers Echos as new fighters, either, seeing as how they don't have their own numbered slots on the website.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong, and just driven by my OCD of wanting a full CSS.

 

[Jetsurge]

But what if this stage returns:
View attachment 148470

What would the final destination and battlefield version of Pokèfloats be?

 

[staindgrey]

Most Unwanted: Camilla.

Preach on!

 

[GrownManJones]

I admit it's my fault for skipping about 10 pages, but what is this? What qualifies the game as being hype and does wavelanding actually work?

Hype is relative I suppose, but an example is when Zero started dash dancing really fast after a KO on MKLeo in the grandfinals of the invitational. The crowd went nuts. The dash dance itself was to confuse MKLeo on respawn but was hype for the crowd because Zero was moving so fast.

Also wavelanding is in the game intentionally. At the moment it has a bit too much landing lag to be used as a Wavedash and that's completely fine, but you can waveland onto a platform from a certain distance and it seems useful. At the moment it stops your momentum on a ledge and you do not go over. If they would allow you to keep momentum then aireal attack after a waveland off a ledge is very potent. Thank you for asking! Also the extra lag you get after so many rolls/dodges is the perfect way to balance this. Sakurai is a genius.

 

[Green_Pikmin*]

As far as newcomers i cant be anymore content with what we have now, but if I were predict whats to come I would go with atleast SEVEN more characters to come for the base game rounding up to 72 charcaters total for the base game.

1) Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven Rep)

Starting off with this series is a little funny cause out of all my picks, I see this character to be the least likely to join Smash. What keeps this character on my list is the rumors of its inclusion being in the last title even with the "Gematsu" leak. Though a leak could mean anything, the concept of the character seemed interesting and even hearing of their data within the game led me to believe they were close to being developed. If the chorus kids were to be a grouped character to work similar as the "ice climbers" or even "pkmn trainer" I could see why the character may have been scraped due to the 3DS limitations. Though this is only my speculation I would love to them represented in Smash, especially with their recent 2015 title Rhythm Heaven Megamix for the 3DS. Their moveset could heavily rely on rhythm timed movement bringing unique techniques to the table. (Could even see Tibby since he's the protagonist in Megamix)

2) Decidueye (PKMN Gen 7 Rep):

Sun & Moon representation is already shown to be in game so it wouldnt be to farfetche'd to see something from the 2016 title. With now 9 PKMN characters represented in smash (7 if were talking slots) we have some popular new Alolan Pkmn to choose from. Lycanroc, Mimikyu and Incineroar seem to be a strong lead
as far as plausible picks but for me Decidueye takes the cake with his Grass/Ghost typing, unique possiblities in its moveset and final smash being its Spirit Shackle Z Move.

3) Spring Man (ARMS/Orginal Switch Title):

The 2017 title would well represent one of the Switch's new series and fits the theme of smash perfectly. His techniques and attacks could be creatively implemented, and his inclusion would add a nice modern day representation to smash ultimate.

4) Rex & Pyra (Xenoblade Chronicles):

A tough one to think about here (If we dont get two playable reps in this series). Elma from "Xenoblade Chronicles X" in the 2015 title, one the main characters in Chronicles X could provide a great addition to the xenoblade franchise. But i have both a weak and strong argument aganist tge characters inclusion if we were to choose ONE new rep. The weaker argument is that the players avatar was the true protagonist throughout the game compared to Xeno 2 where you play as Rex & Pyra, the stronger argument is Xenoblade 2 is very popular and with Ultimate coming to the switch and the game going to be atleast a year old by its release, I could see Rex getting implented especially since the game considered the 2nd in its series. (The alternative for Elma in my case would be her as an assist trophy).

5) Byleth (Fire Emblem Three Houses):

Byleth the apparent default name for the Fire Emblem Three Houses protaganist (*Could be totally wrong). In the possiblity Sakurai goes all out in this new title and we dont see DLC, i wouldnt be suprised if we see the protagonist from the new "2019 FE" title be included. Just like Roy and Corrin he would be a character put in without the charcters game of origin even being sold in stores (though Fates was out in Japan in 2015 but not the US). He would most likely end up the last character you battle in Allstar mode since he would be the newset among every other fighter.

6) Simon Belmont (Konami/Popular Classic):

The vampire slayer being hinted in recent leaks from "Vergeben", Snake returning as a veteran and Bomberman as an assist trophy only makes his inclusion seem more plausible and could be a great way to represent one of konamis greatest series that exceled on the nintendo back in the 80s. Naturally I could see them using his classic design other then Simons more recent appearences.

7) Rayman (Ubisoft Representaion):

From a trophy in the previous smash to being playable in the best iteration yet. His inclusion would honestly top the game off and the Rabbids as an assist trophy wouldnt hurt especially with their recent popularity with the Mario & Rabbids game

(*Pure Speculation and does not view what I actually expect to happen) If we were to get a reveal a month I would see something along the lines of this happening...

JUNE
Later this month after E3 or even early July Nintendo reveals Spring Man to be playable since ARMS released in June 16th 2017.

JULY
Chorus Kids (Rhythm Heaven Rep) are announced in a individual trailer or in early August at EVO to coincide with their DS release on July 31st 2009.

AUGUST
Rayman is revealed in a Nintendo Direct that lists titles coming Fall 2018 for either August or early September. Hes revealed at the end and coincides with his Rayman Legends Wii U releasing back in August 29th 2013.

SEPTEMBER
Rex & Pyra (Xenoblade Rep) are revealed to promote their DLC pack "The Golden Country" dropping September 14th 2018.

OCTOBER
Simon Belmont is revealed this month to go along with Super Castlevania IV releasing back on October 31st 1991. Might even be revealed in Nintendo Direct that reveals titles releasing in early 2019, or a actual Smash Ultimate Direct (Which could reveal two newcomers).

NOVEMBER
Decidueye (Gen 7 Rep) is revealed to go with Pokemon Sun & Moon releasing in November 16th 2016 or Lets Go Pikachu & Eevee on Nov. 18th 2018.
(Could even be part of a Smash Direct)

DECEMBER
Byleth (FE 2019 Rep) gets the final trailer and is revealed before launch or even a cahracter kept secret in game. I see him revealed in December due to FE 2019 being delayed to Spring 2019. (Yet another fighter that may be better off revealed in a Nintendo Direct, Smash Direct or even future DLC).

*As for anyone thats not on my list that has the biggest chances of throwing it off is King K. Rool, Impa/Tetra, Bandana Waddle Dee, Crash Bandicoot, Kingdom Hearts Sora, and possibly Banjo Kazooie due to popularity.

**Also as far as "Echo Fighters" though Sakurai did give these characters a label, I dont believe he opened the doors for several other characters to recieve echoes cause of two reasons. One, these characters (as far we know now) actaully take up roster slots and to have a buffet full of these echo fighters I feel would be disservice since the newcomer pool this time around is gonna be small, especially when we have a number characters that function "somewhat similar" to Echo Fighters but arent under that category (Young Link, Pichu, Roy etc.) Two, is that even with the last game he kept a small number of these echo characters to a minimum being Dark Pit, Lucina, and Dr. Mario (even though he's not one now he was still grouped with those characters im Smash 4). So whats to say our only Echo characters this time around will be Dark Pit, Lucina, and Daisy? (Other than possible DLC)

***If there were to be Echo Fighters I would go with 3 being Impa (Sheik), Chrom (Ike), and possibly Shadow (Sonic).

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Who knows, maybe even all the old ones will be back. I personally sure hope so.

And even if not all of them return, there is no way in hell all of them old stages were shown. We haven't seen Fountain of Dreams yet . EVERYONE has been begging for its return for 2 games, it is not possible the team had not heard about it. (And there is also the unacceptable cut of the entire Electroplankton Universe)

Nintendo is my ****ing life and I still forgot Electroplankton was a thing for several years until you brought it up. I still never found out what kind of game it was and what system it was for.
Did it ever even truly exist?

But what if this stage returns:
View attachment 148470

Pokéfloats, Fountain of Dreams, and Pac-Maze are the three currently unannounced stages I hope return in glorious HD.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

What would the final destination and battlefield version of Pokèfloats be?

Avalugg

 

[Pacack]

Guys, you're over-analyzing.

1. The character select screen has literally never been a reliable indicator of how many characters we're going to get. If the screen doesn't accommodate for the amount of newcomers we're getting...then they'll just alter the layout? The CSS does not determine how many characters we get.

2. The idea that the number of newcomers we have left is equal to the number of months left before the game's release is baseless. We have no idea how they'll be revealing newcomers, and we have no reason to suspect that we don't have secret unlockables again. Don't overthink it.

 

[Bowserlick]

Looking at all the empty spaces on the mural and getting excited.