Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Murlough]

Just going to assume the last few newcomers are

A 3rd Party of some kind
a New Pokemon rep
Elma
Rhythm Heaven rep
a popular ballot choice
1 or 2 new echo fighters

of course sakurai is full of suprises so this wont be accurate

I'm pretty much assuming this except Captain Toad in place of Rhythm Heaven.

Who is more fit for smash, Chun Li or Ken?

Chun Li. If they used the newer versions I would absolutely want cool Ken but I don't want echo fighters just to have echo fighters. Also more female Smash characters. Villains too. The game is off to a great start for those lets keep it up.

 

[Idon]

Does everyone get a rapid attack now?

No. Most character that did not have a rapid jab in 4, do not have a rapid jab in U.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Speaking of Ryu, would Ken or Akuma be a better Echo Fighter for him? Either one is cool with me.

 

[StrangeMann]

I do think we'll see every fighter before the game launches, no reason keeping some of them secret when almost everyone is unlockable anyways, keeping 2 or 3 characters secret in total doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I do agree that it'll be a long wait from now until the next reveal though, people should expect a drought of notable information for a significant period from now on.

I thought the same for smash 4, but Duck hunt and bowser jr were withheld from being unveiled before the 3DS release.
and every other smash game has had characters not publically announced in the game (such as ROB in brawl)

 

[Spartacus5]

Speaking of Ryu, would Ken or Akuma be a better Echo Fighter for him? Either one is cool with me.

ken is more iconic, but Akuma is a very popular villain and more different then Ryu, so its hard to say

 

[Idon]

Speaking of Ryu, would Ken or Akuma be a better Echo Fighter for him? Either one is cool with me.

Ken. Akuma's variation and additional moves make him much more unique than Ken, who (at least originally) was just a modified Ryu- with fire.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Do you think Sakurai would reveal the new newcomer next month?

 

[Zinith]

One great thing I can gather out of this reveal is that it tampered speculation for 3rd party characters immensely.

 

[StrangeMann]

Do you think Sakurai would reveal the new newcomer next month?

I don't think so, I think we're seeing the next fighter in 2 months when the next nintendo direct rolls around.
there's likely only 7 spots left, and I'm pretty sure 2 or so are going to be secret until launch.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Do you think Sakurai would reveal the new newcomer next month?

I think we may see echo fighters revealed somewhat randomly and then only get newcomers in full-blown directs. Daisy's reveal being so lax makes me think they're going to continue to be really chill and just sort of reveal one every once in a while.

 

[staindgrey]

I also forgot to mention but Guile could be a good representative of the street fighter series to due to his popularity

Honestly, I love Street Fighter, but I don't need more than Ryu. He's already an awkward fit.

It's like when Injustice 2 announced they'd be bringing Sub Zero and Raiden from Mortal Kombat. It's like, I already get to play Mortal Kombat games. I want more superheroes in this superhero crossover!

In my mind, third party inclusions shouldn't be redundant, and they should be prominent within Nintendo's history. (Cloud doesn't fit that second part, but people finally got the Cloud/Link matchup they'd been craving for a couple decades.) Ken might be easy enough if they really want to, but sacrificing a brand new character slot on another Street Fighter character, in my mind, would be a bit of a waste when other third party characters, like Banjo & Kazooie, Rayman, Simon Belmont, Sora, Chrono, etc. are still on the table.

 

[Will]

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

 

[Idon]

My opinion is that only one 3rd party character from a 3rd party franchise should be included.

I do not want the entire cast of Sonic to be in Smash when this is first and foremost, a Nintendo fighter.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Hey guys, I noticed something. For all the time spent going over characters and mechanics and stages and hype and whatnot, I noticed they barely touched on single player modes (if at all)....almost like they were hiding something.

Do you guys think this was because they have some...... BIG suprises hidden away for single player mode (maybe a Subspace Emissary esque mode? Yeah, never happening), or do you think this was simply because it isn't much different from Smash 4's single player (which I hope isn't the case)

 

[Deleted member]

Just had a thought. Now in terms of third parties, we have Konami, Sega, Capcom, Bandai Namco and Square Enix characters in the game. It was revealed that Bomberman, a Konami character who is not from Metal Gear nor Castlevania (the latter being yet to be announced) but from his own series is going to be an assist trophy. With that said, I want to ask: What characters from the same third party company but not from a series that has playable characters in the game would you like to see as Assist Trophies in this game? Characters who star in a series that is different from, say, for example, Street Fighter and Megaman from Capcom? For me, I would go for NiGHTS from the NiGHTS series from Sega, and I can see him flying around and spinning to attack opponents in the air. What about you guys?

Neku and Shiki from TWEWY or Crono from Chrono Trigger for Square.

Opa-Opa from Fantasy Zone or Alex Kidd for SEGA.

Some Old-School Arcade character (like Dig Dug) for Namco.

One of the monsters from Monster Hunter for Capcom.

Vic Viper from Gradius for Konami.

 

[ErenJager]

If you compare the new additions to the roster from Smash 4 to Ultimate...

1 - Snake
2 - Wolf
3 - Ice Climbers
4 - Squirtle
5 - Ivysaur
6 - Pichu
7 - Young Link

8 - Inkling
9 - Daisy
10 - Ridley

Smash 4 had 21 newcomers and 5 cuts. (16)

If we're not to expect as many newcomers as Smash 4... we already have 10 new characters from the previous installment to the new one.
I wouldn't expect much more then 10-12 (that's being generous) for new characters.
I imagine as little as 6 up until release... a reveal once a month... with maybe 6 more as DLC post launch.

 

[Roberto zampari]

I don't think so, I think we're seeing the next fighter in 2 months when the next nintendo direct rolls around.
there's likely only 7 spots left, and I'm pretty sure 2 or so are going to be secret until launch.

Why two characters? Why 7 spots left? No space for too much characters?

 

[Idon]

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

Small detail, but Ike has reverted to his PoR stance with that weird limp arm stance even if he's wearing the RD costume.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

Anyone think Master Hand will be playable this time? We know that they thought about doing that in Melee and the glitch shows it. If this is going to be the ultimate Smash Bros game I think it might finally be his time. He wouldn't be a normal fighter or course but maybe there would be a mode where you could play as him or something like that.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

I wouldn't necessarily call it more optimal. Snake's C4 can set up some nasty combos to kill off the top since you can stick it to enemies. Link's bomb can be thrown farther, but the knockback looks significantly weaker and enemies can throw it back.

EDIT: To answer your actual question, I don't like the 100 to 0 nature of knockback. It looks ridiculous and seems counter-combo, especially at high percent.

 

[Murlough]

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

The visuals are a tad intense for me at the moment. I don't really like the giant cloud trails, either. I'm hoping I get used to them but they've been hurting my eyes a little.

 

[Wyoming]

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

Honestly I am curious to see how this changes Link's play style. His recovery must have been gimped to near 64-levels if he lost his hookshot and the ability to use his bombs to cancel his free falling and gain distance.

 

[Will]

Is he so angry because Young Link came back?

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

Marth getting a English Voice actor. I'm not a Fire Emblem fan, so i don't care too much, but just hearing that voice makes me cringe a little.

View attachment 148383
Is he so angry because Young Link came back?

I'm honestly very happy Young Link is back, xD

 

[Curious Villager]

View attachment 148383
Is he so angry because Young Link came back?

Nah he's just been hanging around with Mario for too long during Brawl and Smash 4, poor thing...

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Ken. Akuma's variation and additional moves make him much more unique than Ken, who (at least originally) was just a modified Ryu- with fire.

Unless you're talking about SF1, which almost no one ever is because it's not relevant to anything, Ken is definitely more different than Akuma. Ever since SFII he's used several kicks Ryu doesn't have and also lacks Ryu's Shakunetsu Hadoken. Akuma, on the other hand, has all of Ryu's specials plus an aerial version of hado and a command dash (which in this case could jost be a roll). A completely faithful version of Akuma's moveset would only need to change two moves from Ryu to account for the command normals that Akuma doesn't use, as well as angle aerial hado downward.
Even then, it's not really necessary to change anything but the hado since it's not like those moves are anything crazy.
Ken meanwhile would be sorely lacking if he didn't have his special kicks.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Honestly, I love Street Fighter, but I don't need more than Ryu. He's already an awkward fit.

It's like when Injustice 2 announced they'd be bringing Sub Zero and Raiden from Mortal Kombat. It's like, I already get to play Mortal Kombat games. I want more superheroes in this superhero crossover!

In my mind, third party inclusions shouldn't be redundant, and they should be prominent within Nintendo's history. (Cloud doesn't fit that second part, but people finally got the Cloud/Link matchup they'd been craving for a couple decades.) Ken might be easy enough if they really want to, but sacrificing a brand new character slot on another Street Fighter character, in my mind, would be a bit of a waste when other third party characters, like Banjo & Kazooie, Rayman, Simon Belmont, Sora, Chrono, etc. are still on the table.

how would a Ryu echo stop them from adding a unique third party? That's just like saying bringing in Dry Bowser as an echo would prevent, say, Toad.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Some people seem to have a misunderstanding of what makes a character an echo fighter. They go into more detail about echo fighters here.

 

[Will]

Marth getting a English Voice actor. I'm not a Fire Emblem fan, so i don't care too much, but just hearing that voice makes me cringe a little.

That irks me a little too. They never clarified if Roy got the same treatment either, which would be really weird if he was just left as the only one in Japanese only.

 

[StrangeMann]

Why two characters? Why 7 spots left? No space for too much characters?

I'm gonna repost my thoughts from the other day.
Right now the demo roster has a 4 by 8 layout on it.

To keep the same proportions on the CSS and the portraits, you would have to rescale the portraits to be 2/3 of the current height and width, but multiply the number of portraits to be 3/2 their current amounts, making the CSS 6 (4x1.5) by 12 (8x1.5).
To add to this, the button sizes for the portraits currently are 3 buttons wide, but if the portraits scale down to 2/3 their current size, they'll be 2 buttons wide (which is enough for 4 buttons to fit on the portrait provided the buttons are positioned in a zigzag motion)

Assuming the space is completely filled, this provides 72 slots. We have 64 different character selections available according to the smash bros website (assuming echoes take up a spot on the css, and miis/pokemon trainer both count as one slot on the CSS). This provides us with 7 slots remaining, because one slot is removed for the random button.
This could all change and be mere conjecture, but this is what the signs currently point to with Sakurai stating not to expect many newcomers and many people's expectations with the roster size.

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

The knockback sending targets instantly to their location stifles combo games
The cloud knockback effect is too exaggerated
and Ice climbers/cloud appear to be completely gutted

 

[Slavic]

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

Well, ALL hazards back for Wily Castle not my favorite, but generally I’m all for many changes to differentiate each game from the past. So far nothing feels off in terms of changes yet.

 

[staindgrey]

how would a Ryu echo stop them from adding a unique third party? That's just like saying bringing in Dry Bowser as an echo would prevent, say, Toad.

The guy I was quoting wanted Guile, who would not be an echo fighter in the least. He is very, very different from Ryu.

As I said, if they really wanted to put Ken in, whatever, but that's still resources spent on modeling, animation, voicing, balancing, playtesting, etc., that could be spent on a highly requested Nintendo property instead. For this Nintendo crossover game.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I'm gonna repost my thoughts from the other day.
Right now the demo roster has a 4 by 8 layout on it.
View attachment 148384
To keep the same proportions on the CSS and the portraits, you would have to rescale the portraits to be 2/3 of the current height and width, but multiply the number of portraits to be 3/2 their current amounts, making the CSS 6 (4x1.5) by 12 (8x1.5).
To add to this, the button sizes for the portraits currently are 3 buttons wide, but if the portraits scale down to 2/3 their current size, they'll be 2 buttons wide (which is enough for 4 buttons to fit on the portrait provided the buttons are positioned in a zigzag motion)
View attachment 148385
Assuming the space is completely filled, this provides 72 slots. We have 64 different character selections available according to the smash bros website (assuming echoes take up a spot on the css, and miis/pokemon trainer both count as one slot on the CSS). This provides us with 7 slots remaining, because one slot is removed for the random button.
This could all change and be mere conjecture, but this is what the signs currently point to with Sakurai stating not to expect many newcomers and many people's expectations with the roster size.



The knockback sending targets instantly to their location stifles combo games
The cloud knockback effect is too exaggerated
and Ice climbers/cloud appear to be completely gutted

No offense, I enjoy your posts, but

Here it is, folks. Here's the overly in-depth analysis about reshaping the roster icons to fit X number of character slots determining the remaining number of potential newcomers.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Stages are still pretty substantial content and are likely planned out in advance in terms of how many can potentially be included within the allotted development time for the game instead of Sakurai randomly deciding to add stages at random in the middle of development. Plus New Donk City is the feature new Super Mario Bros stage for Smash Ultimate, I'm certain they decided on Mario's home stage of all levels very early on in development, particularly since they haven't exactly bothered to be contemporary with Super Mario Bros content in past Smashes.

And as far as Cappy attack thing goes, this is a really stupid argument considering Sakurai is notorious among fans for almost never droping special moves.t. Mario Tornado, The Three Sacred Treasures n Brawl, and Rock Smash are the only instances I recall of him dropping a special move completely without replacing it with a very similar substitute.



Sakurai planned on putting in Lucas back in Melee when his game was in development hell so I don't think the game not being 100% complete would stop Sakurai if he really wanted a new Xenoblade rep that bad (which granted is FAR from a certainty). As far as that Odyssey thing, I never heard of Nintendo saying anything about Odyssey being delayed. Where did you hear it?

Here. Keep in mind I said it finished development, not that it was delayed.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

The guy I was quoting wanted Guile, who would not be an echo fighter in the least. He is very, very different from Ryu.

As I said, if they really wanted to put Ken in, whatever, but that's still resources spent on modeling, animation, voicing, balancing, playtesting, etc., that could be spent on a highly requested Nintendo property instead. For this Nintendo crossover game.

I mean echoes take very short time to make. I highly doubt is inclusion would prevent, say, Banjo & Kazooie or Ryaman.

 

[DJ3DS]

Is there any change that you don't like? I mean, I'm glad BoTW is getting more rep, but having Link's bomb just be a more optimizable version of Snake's C4 bums me out a lot.

Nana being unable to do anything when Popo is grabbed. I understand making her idle when Popo is grabbing but this change irks me to no end and I may not end up using one of my old mains because of it.

 

[ErenJager]

I'm gonna repost my thoughts from the other day.
Right now the demo roster has a 4 by 8 layout on it.
View attachment 148384
To keep the same proportions on the CSS and the portraits, you would have to rescale the portraits to be 2/3 of the current height and width, but multiply the number of portraits to be 3/2 their current amounts, making the CSS 6 (4x1.5) by 12 (8x1.5).
To add to this, the button sizes for the portraits currently are 3 buttons wide, but if the portraits scale down to 2/3 their current size, they'll be 2 buttons wide (which is enough for 4 buttons to fit on the portrait provided the buttons are positioned in a zigzag motion)
View attachment 148385
Assuming the space is completely filled, this provides 72 slots. We have 64 different character selections available according to the smash bros website (assuming echoes take up a spot on the css, and miis/pokemon trainer both count as one slot on the CSS). This provides us with 7 slots remaining, because one slot is removed for the random button.
This could all change and be mere conjecture, but this is what the signs currently point to with Sakurai stating not to expect many newcomers and many people's expectations with the roster size.



The knockback sending targets instantly to their location stifles combo games
The cloud knockback effect is too exaggerated
and Ice climbers/cloud appear to be completely gutted

So it's been said that the E3 version of the game... was an event version.... I wouldn't be looking at the roster slots as an indicator... size etc can change.

 

[Will]

Also something I found funny, doesn't Ness' render look a bit like the one from the fake leak of him for Smash 4?

 

[Idon]

Unless you're talking about SF1, which almost no one ever is because it's not relevant to anything, Ken is definitely more different than Akuma. Ever since SFII he's used several kicks Ryu doesn't have and also lacks Ryu's Shakunetsu Hadoken. Akuma, on the other hand, has all of Ryu's specials plus an aerial version of hado and a command dash (which in this case could jost be a roll). A completely faithful version of Akuma's moveset would only need to change two moves from Ryu to account for the command normals that Akuma doesn't use, as well as angle aerial hado downward.
Even then, it's not really necessary to change anything but the hado since it's not like those moves are anything crazy.
Ken meanwhile would be sorely lacking if he didn't have his special kicks.

But what about Akuma and his demon flip, airgrab, divekick, and the already air fireball and teleport. Wouldn't that make him more different compared to Ken?

 

[ErenJager]

Anyone think Master Hand will be playable this time? We know that they thought about doing that in Melee and the glitch shows it. If this is going to be the ultimate Smash Bros game I think it might finally be his time. He wouldn't be a normal fighter or course but maybe there would be a mode where you could play as him or something like that.

Master Hand Jr.
Mini Master Hand

Or my personal favourite.... Sandbang with small versions Master Hand and Crazy Hand as floating limbs.