Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[SuperMasterHand]

Wait a minute ...
Isn't Smash Ultimate like the first Smash to ever release the exact same day everywhere ?
If it's the case we could just discovers the secret newcomers (if there is such things) without being spoiled (we could be spoiled 2-3 days before for sure but it's not that long to get off the internet)

 

[Nekoo]

Feel free to vent all you want. But you probably shouldn't take what others say out of context in the process.

It wasn't Against you.
It was because that sentence is something I saw so much, used so much in general Against third parties.
More like a general rant, hence why I said "this argument"-
No harm done fam.

 

[Fenriraga]

Welp, nevermind, comp is done. UGH I can't believe I choked like I did. Ah well, was still really fun.

 

[Slavic]

Even though I'd be ok with Dark Samus getting in as an Echo, you are right. Dark Samus has a lot of unique moves, and she can't be a direct clone, as she's never used the morph ball. I can see some of her attacks being the same, but she'd more than likely have to be a semi clone at worst. She also moves completely differently than Samus.

However, if Dark Samus getting in as an Echo means Metroid gets 2 newcomers? I'll swallow my issues and be happy because Metroid got a lot of love.

This is exactly where I’m at

 

[N3ON]

Wait a minute ...
Isn't Smash Ultimate like the first Smash to ever release the exact same day everywhere ?
If it's the case we could just discovers the secret newcomers (if there is such things) without being spoiled (we could be spoiled 2-3 days before for sure but it's not that long to get off the internet)

I can almost guarantee you the final roster will leak before release.

Now whether people believe it is another matter.

 

[Idon]

I can almost guarantee you the final roster will leak before release.

Now whether people believe it is another matter.

SHULK
IS
LITTLE
MAC

 

[Ze Diglett]

Penciling in my base roster newcomer predictions, other than the ones we already have, as follows (ranked from most confident to least confident):

K. Rool
Bandanna Dee
Geno
Simon Belmont
Dixie Kong*
Chrom*
Chorus Men
Impa*
Decidueye
Rayman
Dark Samus*

(* = Echo Fighter)

And that's it. If you want reasoning for any of these, I have mini-writeups for all of them that you can see if you click the link in my sig. In general, though, I chose these guys considering A.) the new focus on Echo Fighters, which is why I have so many of them, B.) this game's overt focus on fanservice, likely resulting in the addition of several highly requested "ballot fighters" like K. Rool and Bandanna Dee, and C.) the fact that this is probably supposed to be Sakurai's last Smash, so he'll probably go back on some fighters he previously considered like Chorus Men and Geno (assuming they don't fall under the category of "ballot fighters" themselves), all with a few Sakurai picks thrown into the mix (a Pokemon newcomer, two non-ballot third parties).

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Spoiler: Zelda's Design

Now I wonder what Zelda's design is based off of. Could be a mixture of ALBW/ALttP, or maybe not.

That doesn't mention that she also has ALBW Zelda's hair in the front and a more detailed version of ALBW Zelda's headpiece, as well as a gold triforce on the dress rather than a red one. Seems to be a mix if anything.

 

[staindgrey]

It wasn't Against you.
It was because that sentence is something I saw so much, used so much in general Against third parties.
More like a general rant, hence why I said "this argument"-
No harm done fam.

Could've fooled me with how aggressive your language was. You opened with, "This argument is so dumb it hurt."

Regardless, I'm not personally offended.

 

[Dukeofdeath5]

I can almost guarantee you the final roster will leak before release.

Now whether people believe it is another matter.

Guys Smash roster leak -

Newcomers:
Sora
Shrek
Goku
Captain N
Silver the Hedgehog

Source:
Uncle works at Nintendo

 

[YoshiandToad]

Penciling in my base roster newcomer predictions, other than the ones we already have, as follows (ranked from most confident to least confident):

K. Rool
Bandanna Dee
Geno
Simon Belmont
Dixie Kong*
Chrom*
Chorus Men
Impa*
Decidueye
Rayman
Dark Samus*

(* = Echo Fighter)

And that's it. If you want reasoning for any of these, I have mini-writeups for all of them that you can see if you click the link in my sig. In general, though, I chose these guys considering A.) the new focus on Echo Fighters, which is why I have so many of them, B.) this game's overt focus on fanservice, likely resulting in the addition of several highly requested "ballot fighters" like K. Rool and Bandanna Dee, and C.) the fact that this is probably supposed to be Sakurai's last Smash, so he'll probably go back on some fighters he previously considered like Chorus Men and Geno (assuming they don't fall under the category of "ballot fighters" themselves).

I hadn't considered it but Chrom getting in as an echo fighter would be kind of nice and I feel I'd be down for that. I felt a bit bad for him after Sm4sh's Robin/Lucina/Falcon trailer annihilated him.

Kind of weird we're changing our tunes on clones though. Everyone seems more positive towards them now they have their own fanciful title. I'm not sure how I feel about them in general, but if it helps Impa and Dixie's chances I guess I'm down...just currently can't picture Dixie without her ponytail grabs.

Impa seems pretty damn likely now with Sheik's final Smash fitting her too. I wonder what version they'll use for her though...Hyrule Warriors? Skyward? Ocarina? Please god no not Breath of the Wild Impa though. I'll take Oracles and a Link Between World's, but BotW's Impa is a bit too much...;;

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'm still banking on Ashley getting in since Sakurai is going for fan demand, and like Ridley for the West, Ashley is super popular in Japan. Though I think the King (pun intended) of popularity across the entire world is K. Rool. Who'd I'd be shocked to not see in.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Tbh the idea of Dixie being an echo fighter makes me depressed, they can keep it lol

 

[CannonStreak]

About making the likes of Dixie Kong and Dark Samus being echoes when they don't completely have the same moves as the original, who said they had to be echoes? They could just be clones. I know echoes and clones are not exactly the same thing, but I believe the announcement of echoes can mean more clones just as well, even if not all clones are echo characters. I believe the echo announcement helps with more clones or semi-clones getting in. In case I am wrong, what could make it not so, otherwise?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

About making the likes of Dixie Kong and Dark Samus being echoes when they don't completely have the same moves as the original, who said they had to be echoes? They could just be clones. I know echoes and clones are not exactly the same thing, but I believe the announcement of echoes can mean more clones just as well, even if not all clones are echo characters. I believe the echo announcement helps with more clones or semi-clones getting in. In case I am wrong, what could make it not so, otherwise?

To me the introduction of Echoes really makes it seem like they're moving away from tradition clones tbh, they haven't spent actual time on a clone since brawl.

 

[Ze Diglett]

About making the likes of Dixie Kong and Dark Samus being echoes when they don't completely have the same moves as the original, who said they had to be echoes? They could just be clones. I know echoes and clones are not exactly the same thing, but I believe the announcement of echoes can mean more clones just as well, even if not all clones are echo characters. I believe the echo announcement helps with more clones or semi-clones getting in. In case I am wrong, what could make it not so, otherwise?

My line of reasoning is that if this game were to only have three or four Echo Fighters in it, then simply put, why bother to make the distinction? Why give such a designation to such a minor percentage of the cast when there are only one or two more than there were in the previous one? Way I see it, they wouldn't have bothered to define the term if they weren't planing on adding a lot more in the future, and things like Diddy losing his tail jab and Samus losing her DS Alt/DS failing to appear as an Assist thus far are a bit too suspiciously timed for me to ignore.

 

[Whababa]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but I feel like everyone is forgetting sceptile/grovyle. I would rather see grovyle than an other potential new pokemon rep let alone decidueye.

 

[N3ON]

Dixie doesn't work as an echo fighter, you'd have to change at least a few moves in order to account for their slightly different physiologies (such as Dixie's lack of tail), and that seems to go against what an echo fighter is. She could be a semi-clone...

Plus if you include her and don't incorporate her hair in an attack... why even bother...

To me the introduction of Echoes really makes it seem like they're moving away from tradition clones tbh, they haven't spent actual time on a clone since brawl.

Echoes are clones. They are near-direct clones.

 

[Deleted member]

What are the odds we get any semi clones? They made a point to give clones their own title, but all of the echo fighters are almost direct copies of the original. Not even characters like Pichu and Dr. Mario are considered echoes. The new branding makes me think that all clones from here on out are just going to be echoes to save dev time, but a few of my favorite potential clones would work a lot better as semi clones like Wolf instead of echoes.

 

[Cosmic77]

Feels like a lot of people are starting to assume that most of the unique newcomers will be blatant fanservice characters.

Just wanted to point out that it's not unusual for both Nintendo and Sakurai to want to showcase the biggest characters first before moving on to the less exciting characters. Don't be disappointed if Inklings and Ridley end up being the biggest newcomer reveals of SSBU.

 

[RandomAce]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but I feel like everyone is forgetting sceptile/grovyle. I would rather see grovyle than an other potential new pokemon rep let alone decidueye.

Sceptile’s is my second favorite Pokémon and favorite grass starter. If any grass starter gets in, I want it to Sceptile.

So, any new things from E3, any new Smash findings?

 

[CannonStreak]

To me the introduction of Echoes really makes it seem like they're moving away from tradition clones tbh, they haven't spent actual time on a clone since brawl.

Yeah, but then again, who says they can't work on a clone that is not an echo in this game? Nothing is stopping them.

 

[StrangeMann]

Dixie doesn't work as an echo fighter, you'd have to change at least a few moves in order to account for their slightly different physiologies (such as Dixie's lack of tail), and that seems to go against what an echo fighter is. She could be a semi-clone...

Plus if you include her and don't incorporate her hair in an attack... why even bother...


Echoes are clones. They are near-direct clones.

Diddy's jab had the tail attack removed.
I could see her being the same except recovery?
I wouldn't want her as an echo unless we got K Rool too though.

 

[DarkFalcon]

About making the likes of Dixie Kong and Dark Samus being echoes when they don't completely have the same moves as the original, who said they had to be echoes? They could just be clones. I know echoes and clones are not exactly the same thing, but I believe the announcement of echoes can mean more clones just as well, even if not all clones are echo characters. I believe the echo announcement helps with more clones or semi-clones getting in. In case I am wrong, what could make it not so, otherwise?

I feel like them rebranding clones as echoes was a way to introduce more clones in an official way. With Dixie you could mayyyybe get away with her being a full clone (except with a hair recovery) but it certainly wouldn't make people happy. Dark Samus it's basically impossible though. Both would work best as Semi Clones at worst, and Dark Samus has enough to be a completely unique fighter.

 

[N3ON]

Diddy's jab had the tail attack removed.
I could see her being the same except recovery?
I wouldn't want her as an echo unless we got K Rool too though.

Well if the tail attack is out then yeah I guess it's feasible. It'd be selling Dixie short, but it'd be feasible.

 

[CannonStreak]

What are the odds we get any semi clones? They made a point to give clones their own title, but all of the echo fighters are almost direct copies of the original. Not even characters like Pichu and Dr. Mario are considered echoes. The new branding makes me think that all clones from here on out are just going to be echoes to save dev time, but a few of my favorite potential clones would work a lot better as semi clones like Wolf instead of echoes.

I agree, especially on the last part. Other than that, not every potential echo character, has to be a an echo. They could work as a clone, or a semi-clone. Nothing is stopping them from doing that.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Diddy's jab had the tail attack removed.
I could see her being the same except recovery?
I wouldn't want her as an echo unless we got K Rool too though.

Can't change the recovery, part of the criteria for being an echo fighter is that all attacks stay the same minus some slight tweaks to damage, knockback etc. And if Dixie can't pick up enemies with her hair too what's the point. Personally her using diddy's moveset at all would be all wrong but eh

Yeah, but then again, who says they can't work on a clone that is not an echo in this game? Nothing is stopping them.

It's certainly possible, I'm just doubtful they'd go that route

 

[Idon]

I hadn't considered it but Chrom getting in as an echo fighter would be kind of nice and I feel I'd be down for that. I felt a bit bad for him after Sm4sh's Robin/Lucina/Falcon trailer annihilated him.

Kind of weird we're changing our tunes on clones though. Everyone seems more positive towards them now they have their own fanciful title. I'm not sure how I feel about them in general, but if it helps Impa and Dixie's chances I guess I'm down...just currently can't picture Dixie without her ponytail grabs.

Impa seems pretty damn likely now with Sheik's final Smash fitting her too. I wonder what version they'll use for her though...Hyrule Warriors? Skyward? Ocarina? Please god no not Breath of the Wild Impa though. I'll take Oracles and a Link Between World's, but BotW's Impa is a bit too much...;;

I still intensely dislike them honestly and some name change to point out that some clones are lazier than others won't change that.
At their best they make sense and offer a wildly different experience like Falco or Wolf while at worst they're redundant alt. costumes made to pad out the roster.

As for Impa, they'll most likely use her Ocarina of Time version, albeit with more complex detailing. I can see at most young SS Impa being an alt. Color scheme

 

[-crump-]

My line of reasoning is that if this game were to only have three or four Echo Fighters in it, then simply put, why bother to make the distinction? Why give such a designation to such a minor percentage of the cast when there are only one or two more than there were in the previous one? Way I see it, they wouldn't have bothered to define the term if they weren't planing on adding a lot more in the future, and things like Diddy losing his tail jab and Samus losing her DS Alt/DS failing to appear as an Assist thus far are a bit too suspiciously timed for me to ignore.

I personally think that Sakurai created the term and added the symbols as a way to justify the inclusion of Dark Pit, Lucina, and Daisy. There was always going to be hate, and Sakurai made an attempt to diminish that hate right off the bat by assuring people that they don’t have their own, legitamite spaces.

For example, putting Dark Pit as “#58” instead of “28 E” would have made more people upset. By doing that, Dark Pit now, to the general audience’s eye, appears as his own slot, his own, singular character. However, assuring them that he is merely an extension of Pit, an “echo”, if you will, it sticks in people’s minds better that, no, he did not require the same dev time that another character might occupy.
“He’s not unique, but he doesn’t need to be! Don’t worry; he’s just an echo character!”

At least, that’s how I saw it. I don’t understand the idea people have that we’re getting a dozen clones because of this new term, but I suppose I’ll just wait and see.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Diddy's jab had the tail attack removed.
I could see her being the same except recovery?
I wouldn't want her as an echo unless we got K Rool too though.

That's the thing everyone is saying.

Everyone says that Dixie will be an echo but with a different Up B.

That literally does not make her an echo fighter.

If they want to give her all the same moves as Diddy, despite all the things she can do with her hair, be my guest. But it wouldn't be Dixie.

 

[CannonStreak]

I feel like them rebranding clones as echoes was a way to introduce more clones in an official way. With Dixie you could mayyyybe get away with her being a full clone (except with a hair recovery) but it certainly wouldn't make people happy. Dark Samus it's basically impossible though. Both would work best as Semi Clones at worst, and Dark Samus has enough to be a completely unique fighter.

Clones in general, you mean? But yeah, that was my point. Both Dixie and Dark Samus, and maybe some other characters, don't have to be echoes. Just plain clones or, more appropriately, semi-clones. They could even be unique if they decided to go that route.

It's certainly possible, I'm just doubtful they'd go that route

Maybe, but you never truly know.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I still intensely dislike them honestly and some name change to point out that some clones are lazier than others won't change that.
At their best they make sense and offer a wildly different experience like Falco or Wolf while at worst they're redundant alt. costumes made to pad out the roster.

As for Impa, they'll most likely use her Ocarina of Time version, albeit with more complex detailing. I can see at most an alt. Color scheme

Does anybody like Ocarina of Time Impa though? Skyward Sword impa would be the best option but her proportions don't fit and she'd be lacking her magic attacks from that game. She'd make a good semi-clone though, keep the normals, vanish and bouncing fish and change her side and neutral special. But as I said I'm doubtful of semi-clones being added

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

In terms of Echo fighters, I think Chrom would make a ton of sense as an Echo to Ike.

I think it's kind of funny how much everybody hated on clones until Sakurai made a term for them. Now everybody loves the concept.

Anyway, if you have the chance or are interested, I made a thread with my thoughts on the whole week so far. I didn't want it to be a giant comment in here, but I would love feedback. Let me know what you think!

https://smashboards.com/threads/a-p...-long-time-veteran-and-a-fan-like-you.455547/

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I do not understand this "they'll probably show 1 character a month to keep the hype up" mentality that seems to be everywhere. When have they ever done this? Where does this notion even come from? Does no one remember previous dry spells of smash news?

Sure this could happen. It just seems like an odd thing to expect. Especially since smash is one of the easier franchises to keep hype up for and it's only 5 months away.

Not meaning to call you out specifically yours is just the most recent post I see doing it.

Well, this Smash is a little different too. Smash Wii U/3DS had years between its reveal, and its release. Showing a newcomer once every few months was more understandable back then because there was such a large window of time.

This Smash we literally have 6 months until it’s here. Showing a newcomer every month isn’t as unlikely as before. There’s a shorter window of time to show off new content. I’m sure we’ll get a Smash specific direct some time before December too. There’s still so much we don’t know about this game, and they don’t have a lot of time to show us.

Not to say they might leave a few things to the imagination. (Not showing certain characters.), but before Smash WiiU/3DS they had revealed everyone but Bowser Jr. and Duck Hunt. (Even though we knew of them because of leaks.)

 

[Knight Dude]

Even though I'd be ok with Dark Samus getting in as an Echo, you are right. Dark Samus has a lot of unique moves, and she can't be a direct clone, as she's never used the morph ball. I can see some of her attacks being the same, but she'd more than likely have to be a semi clone at worst. She also moves completely differently than Samus.

However, if Dark Samus getting in as an Echo means Metroid gets 2 newcomers? I'll swallow my issues and be happy because Metroid got a lot of love.

I'm pretty sure Dark Samus does use the Morph Ball, just not the bombs. In Prime 2 she uses the Boost Ball in the first two boss fights against her.

And sure, if we're getting more Echo Fighters, she'd be a sick choice. Even if I think she also has enough to be more like Falco and Wolf and less like Lucina and Daisy.

I still think we're getting like, 5 more fighters tops, since the point of this Smash title was to add back EVERY previous fighter, which I was only thinking ICs, Snake and Wolf were making it back.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Here are the list of the damage values for Ridley and Inkling from Max Ketchum. This is from 1v1. Still this is beta so things may change.

Ridley and Inkling damage values. This represents a game in development and is very subject to change before release on December 7! pic.twitter.com/DLXVXoiuM8

— LG EMG Max Ketchum (@MaxKetchum_) June 14, 2018

 

[Zinith]

I have a feeling none of the original 12 will get an Echo Fighter. It seems like those 12 will get the whole top row to themselves and adding an Echo Fighter would screw things up.

(Assuming Daisy, Dark Pit and Lucina will be next to their counterparts)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Also, not because I want to brag but because i'm so excited about this game...

Spoiler: Spoiler

I FREAKING TOLD YOU GUYS THERE WEREN'T GOING TO BE CUTS!!! I'M NOT EVEN TRYING TO MAKE YOU FEEL BAD, I'M JUST SO FREAKING EXCITED THAT EVERYBODY IS IN THIS GAME. I GOT SNAKE BACK. I ALMOST CRIED. UBDNSLJDBOSJBDJNBNBGHDBGDB

 

[Double0Groove]

Penciling in my base roster newcomer predictions, other than the ones we already have, as follows (ranked from most confident to least confident):

K. Rool
Bandanna Dee
Geno
Simon Belmont
Dixie Kong*
Chrom*
Chorus Men
Impa*
Decidueye
Rayman
Dark Samus*

(* = Echo Fighter)

And that's it. If you want reasoning for any of these, I have mini-writeups for all of them that you can see if you click the link in my sig. In general, though, I chose these guys considering A.) the new focus on Echo Fighters, which is why I have so many of them, B.) this game's overt focus on fanservice, likely resulting in the addition of several highly requested "ballot fighters" like K. Rool and Bandanna Dee, and C.) the fact that this is probably supposed to be Sakurai's last Smash, so he'll probably go back on some fighters he previously considered like Chorus Men and Geno (assuming they don't fall under the category of "ballot fighters" themselves), all with a few Sakurai picks thrown into the mix (a Pokemon newcomer, two non-ballot third parties).

If the character reveal scedule's anything like it was last time, then we're probably only gonna get 6 more characters. Out of all of them on your list:

K. Rool (I can see it)
Bandanna Dee (doubt it)
Geno (I can see it)
Simon Belmont (doubt it)
Dixie Kong* (doubt it, but I can see her being a costume change)
Chrom* (They haven't shown Robin's final smash anywhere. Food for thought)
Chorus Men (Not too sure)
Impa* (I can see it)
Decidueye (doubt it)
Rayman (not too sure, but I'm still leaning towards assist throphy status)
Dark Samus* (doubt it)

 

[Wyoming]

Showerthought: What if we got an echo of an echo?