Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Swamp Sensei]

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We got two Resident Evil games on Switch.

Can we get Jill Valentine in Smash?

 

[Deleted member]

Mainly, the lack of a Ganondorf design for BOTW. If one exists, that might help. Then again, that doesn't apply to Sheik either. It is notable Sakurai wants to keep those 4 in the same artstyle.

But, what would prevent the team behind BotW to make redesigns based on their game for both and specifically for Smash?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

But, what would prevent the team behind BotW to make redesigns based on their game for both and specifically for Smash?

Nothing. But what if they didn't?

Keep in mind Sheik was also only one character, and there were some ideas floating around for her to be in TP too.

Remember, it depends entirely on what the companies want to do. If Sheik and Ganondorf were never intended to be in BOTW, with no concept art, it's quite possible Sakurai may only update the TP design to feel somewhat closer to BOTW in general. And that's not even counting evolutions of movesets.

We can't say for sure what could happen. Not until we have some more behind the scenes information.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

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We got two Resident Evil games on Switch.

Can we get Jill Valentine in Smash?

Guns, so probably not.
Her MvC2 moveset might work though iirc

 

[PushDustIn]

1: True, but relevance also was important too. I didn't say it was only relevance. I said mostly(which means a big role in it). But fair, it's more the opposite of what I said. My bad.
2: I honestly forgot that was her specific gimmick. Thanks for the correction.


Moveset potential is a more important factor at times(clones aside), but they still need to fit criteria beyond that anyway. Just having potential alone won't work. There has to be more to it than that. Like how to make it interesting, would people recognize the character(in most cases), does it fit something you're already looking for? You'll notice many unique characters not there because they lacked the timing. Games need to be heavily in development and nearly out or were recently out around the time Smash is being created to easily fit the timing window. That doesn't entirely apply to each character, but you gotta remember that not everyone was chosen because of relevance. In some cases, they were chosen for who they are retro-wise as an option. Little Mac is based heavily on his older games since that's where the appeal is. He's not a literal retro character(since his last appearance way on the previous console), however, he was based upon his more retro options and his far older appearances instead. Pac-Man is the same way. He's definitely relevant due to his character overall getting new and active games/works, but he was based upon his retro design specifically. On the other hand, MegaMan didn't have straight-out relevance going for him due to Capcom. However, being iconic, he fit the 3rd party criteria, and was based upon a very memorable version of him, namely, the retro design. Not that he was lacking in games overall over the years, but nothing being worked on/released while Smash 4 was being developed.

That said, I think maybe there's a misunderstanding on how he works with relevance. It means that a character has a new entry that's coming out, or being worked on, during the time Smash is currently being developed. Sometimes it needs to be fairly early on during development(since the roster is often decided somewhat early on), although some clear exceptions exist besides DLC. Namely the clones.

The other thing to remember is that, and it bears repeating; Relevance means this character is currently active. It does not mean "must base them on this appearance". Rosalina isn't directly based upon a specific appearance for her gimmick. It's more an idea based upon the thought of what she could do, including the fact she can work with Lumas. The floatiness and such is more the idea of her being in space and seemingly able to work well with gravity(although to be fair, is this outright mentioned in any game? Cause I haven't played some of them. I know that was part of Rosalina's gimmick, her gravity control, along with being a puppet character archtype).

PushDustIn Could you link the articles that explain how Relevance is used? I'm not remembering everything or every example well enough to explain. >.<

So if you are looking for a general article, the Sakurai On Character Choices is your best bet. I also wrote a sequel that deals with third party characters as well.

There's a particularly important quote from Sakurai's Fire Emblem Interview about characters needing to follow the trends of the time.

If you want to go super in depth, NantenJex's articles on character relevancy about the various games are your places to look. I've linked them all below.

On Character Selection: Smash DLC & Beyond
On Character Selection: Smash for Wii U & 3DS
On Character Selection: Brawl
On Character Selection: Melee
On Character Selection: Smash 64

While we're summoning PushDustIn , I would like to know if PushDustIn knows a source about which models of characters from the base roster the DLC characters are made from.

I remember having read an article made by PushDustIn about it and PushDustIn said that, besides Mewtwo:
- is made from .
- Both and / are made from .
- is made from .
- And / is made from .

Though I haven't seen anything about / on that matter.
Maybe he was based on ?

I don't remember if we published an article like that. I remember talking about doing something like that in the past, but I don't think I/ anyone on SG wrote it.

Semi-relevant, but...Omega Tyrant on Smash Wiki has an interesting clone chart, but it doesn't cover the DLC characters.

Feel free to tag me with any additional questions!

 

[FUNT1MER]

Guys I know your probably sick of me driving off topic every time I open my mouth. Please here me out, what if when virtual console is dumbed onto the switch. Mother 3 is the flagship of the new virtual console games. Could you Imagine? Lucas is popular in smash and Mother 3 has been kept under the hat of Nintendo until "the time is right ".

 

[A Distant Demon]

Guys I know your probably sick of me driving off topic every time I open my mouth. Please here me out, what if when virtual console is dumbed onto the switch. Mother 3 is the flagship of the new virtual console games. Could you Imagine? Lucas is popular in smash and Mother 3 has been kept under the hat of Nintendo until "the time is right ".

This thread is for Smash speculation, not Mother 3/VC speculation.

If you want stuff like that head to the Smash For Social or the Nintenzone social

 

[Deleted member]

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We got two Resident Evil games on Switch.

Can we get Jill Valentine in Smash?

She has to either be a popular request or the head of the Resident Evil series has to be willing to pursue the idea and request it himself/herself to stand a chance. :V

I'd want Nemesis, though....

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

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We got two Resident Evil games on Switch.

Can we get Jill Valentine in Smash?

There are several Resident Evil choices that they all sound good on paper. Chris and Jill have been the faces of the franchise for quite some time and have been there from the outset of the series. We wouldn't have a protagonist's 'Three Musketeers' group without Leon Kennedy, who enjoys a pretty decent amount of popularity and had his name made on Resident Evil 4 on the GameCube. For the villains, we've Nemesis, Wesker and recently Jack Baker, but the former are way more likely than Jack. I'd say these four: Chris, Jill, Leon and Wesker could easily be playable, and Nemesis could be a stage boss for sure.

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly, Nemesis having Bowser's "Tough Guy" ability but on steroids while having a **** recovery to compensate would be really awesome. :V

Bayonetta's worst nightmare; a character she can't combo.

 

[Robertman2]

Can I make a support thread for P5's Joker now that Persona Q2's been announced for the 3DS?

 

[Opossum]

Can I make a support thread for P5's Joker now that Persona Q2's been announced for the 3DS?

I think so long as he's in that game he's fair game.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

I'd find it amusing if Xander Mobus returned for the next Smash as the announcer/Master Hand and suddenly Yu Narukami, Jack Frost or Akira Kurusu/Joker made it into Smash Bros as a playable character - especially the latter since Akira/Joker's voiced by Xander himself in the English Dub.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Found this on the interwebs, do you think there's anything to it?

Spoiler: Did Nintendo of Germany slip up or are they having a laugh?

 

[A Distant Demon]

Found this on the interwebs, do you think there's anything to it?

Spoiler: Did Nintendo of Germany slip up or are they having a laugh?

First, it isn't Germany. It's those darn Danes

Second, i'm putting my money on "idiotic intern" because im a pessimist and this would be the dumbest way for a game to leak ever

pokken is my favorite shooting game

 

[Nauzgo]

I bet they just wanted to troll us with that, though it's imo very likely that it's already in development.

And how could you mistake our beautiful language with some skandinavish (probably dansk) language? I feel offended xD

 

[Delzethin]

Found this on the interwebs, do you think there's anything to it?

Spoiler: Did Nintendo of Germany slip up or are they having a laugh?

At this point, we have little way to tell if it means something or if it's just a red herring. All we can really do is wait and see what comes up. Either way, something is strange in the state of Denmark.

Speaking of waiting, is it a week from now yet?

 

[Deleted member]

At this point, we have little way to tell if it means something or if it's just a red herring. All we can really do is wait and see what comes up. Either way, something is strange in the state of Denmark.

Speaking of waiting, is it a week from now yet?

While you're waiting, you can make an Incineroar vid to go with your Decidueye, Lycanroc, and Delphox ones.

 

[FUNT1MER]

At this point, we have little way to tell if it means something or if it's just a red herring. All we can really do is wait and see what comes up. Either way, something is strange in the state of Denmark.

Speaking of waiting, is it a week from now yet?

Yo man love your work

 

[Diddy Kong]

But, what would prevent the team behind BotW to make redesigns based on their game for both and specifically for Smash?

Yeah exactly! The Skyward Sword designs of Ganondorf and Sheik in Smash 4 where on-point!

 

[Akenero]

I mean, no doubt that Ice climbers will return.

 

[AEMehr]

But, what would prevent the team behind BotW to make redesigns based on their game for both and specifically for Smash?

Theoretically these designs can exist through the Sheikah and Male Gerudo outfits that Link can wear.

It's not like the Smash team can't make something new like you said, they did so for Sheik, the Star Fox cast, all of the retro characters. If they wanted to they can do it.

 

[Delzethin]

Yo man love your work

Late on the followup, but thanks.

 

[FUNT1MER]

What about Ubisoft? Their new game Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle has flew off shelves and will likely solidify a 3rd party character. Be it Rayman or the rabbids or some other mascot from a successful franchise. The big N and the big U are once again working together.

 

[Strider_Bond00J]

What about Ubisoft? Their new game Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle has flew off shelves and will likely solidify a 3rd party character. Be it Rayman or the rabbids or some other mascot from a successful franchise. The big N and the big U are once again working together.

Although Mario+Rabbids hasn't been officially released yet, I think the chance of a Ubisoft character in the next Smash Bros is going to be pretty likely. Of all of Ubisoft's franchises, I feel Rayman has the best chance of all of them, since he's already appeared as a trophy in Smash 4 (with Ubisoft being kind enough to make a model just for Smash) and has been one of Ubi's star characters. Of course, Assassins like Ezio are also good candidates, but I think I'd prefer Rayman over Ezio for Smash.

 

[JaidynReiman]

On a Ubisoft character, I'd definitely bet on Rayman, with Rabbids as an Assist. And Ice Climbers back. I still think its fairly likely it'll be an enhanced port like they planned with Melee. It won't redo the engine completely and therefore, all existing characters will be kept (barring third-parties not renewing licenses and/or they're too expensive, but I kinda doubt that happens).

I still don't anticipate more than 1, maybe a slim chance of 2 new third-parties.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Smash might as well have only 3rd party newcomers from now on, making it a true crossover cluster**** of just about anything 'relevant' and high selling, on whatever platform.

Seriously, 3rd party character discussion is the most speculative we can do. Nintendo characters don't generate as much money or hype anymore. They much rather add Crash Bandicoot than Isaac, King K.Rool or Bandana Dee. At this rate, I might try and get excited for Inkling as that, alongside my non-favorite ARMS character, might be the only true Nintendo newcomers.

 

[Deleted member]

Smash might as well have only 3rd party newcomers from now on, making it a true crossover cluster**** of just about anything 'relevant' and high selling, on whatever platform.

Seriously, 3rd party character discussion is the most speculative we can do. Nintendo characters don't generate as much money or hype anymore. They much rather add Crash Bandicoot than Isaac, King K.Rool or Bandana Dee. At this rate, I might try and get excited for Inkling as that, alongside my non-favorite ARMS character, might be the only true Nintendo newcomers.

I don't think Crash is likely.

Activision would charge too much for him. Besides, only now with the N. Sane Trilogy have they realized there's money left in the IP, because aside from the Imaginators cameo, it's been phone racing games.

I still say Nintendo characters will continue to matter, but the well is starting to run dry.

 

[Opossum]

I don't think Crash is likely.

Activision would charge too much for him. Besides, only now with the N. Sane Trilogy have they realized there's money left in the IP, because aside from the Imaginators cameo, it's been phone racing games.

I still say Nintendo characters will continue to matter, but the well is starting to run dry.

Once again, is there any proof whatsoever that Activision would "charge too much?" Activision and Nintendo have collaborated before, and Square Enix, a notoriously stingy company when it comes to licensing, has Cloud in Smash.

The "Activision would ask for too much money" argument is baseless.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Once again, is there any proof whatsoever that Activision would "charge too much?" Activision and Nintendo have collaborated before, and Square Enix, a notoriously stingy company when it comes to licensing, has Cloud in Smash.

The "Activision would ask for too much money" argument is baseless.

I think it was because Activision DID ask too much for Crash and Spyro in PSASBR. However, that game and Smash are two different beasts entirely, Smash already has brand recognition from developers who are trusted

 

[Opossum]

I think it was because Activision DID ask too much for Crash and Spyro in PSASBR. However, that game and Smash are two different beasts entirely, Smash already has brand recognition from developers who are trusted

Exactly. There's a difference between Superbot not being able to pay for Crash, and Nintendo not being able to.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Exactly. There's a difference between Superbot not being able to pay for Crash, and Nintendo not being able to.

Plus, Square let Smash have Cloud, which was funny as they didn't let Cloud in that game either

 

[Deleted member]

What about Ubisoft? Their new game Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle has flew off shelves and will likely solidify a 3rd party character. Be it Rayman or the rabbids or some other mascot from a successful franchise. The big N and the big U are once again working together.

That's not how guest characters work. Unless Ubisoft themselves go the Kojima route try to get a character in (likely either Rayman or a Rabbid of some type), nothing is "solidified".

Though we did strangely get Rayman series trophies in Smash Wii U, however. Likely due to Nintendo publishing Rayman Legends in Japan, but still strange why Sakurai and his team opted for trophies and ONLY trophies (i.e. not later add Rayman as DLC).
So even if Ubisoft doesn't get a playable fighter, there will be trophies of at least Rayman and the four Rabbid protagonists of Kingdom Battle in the next Smash.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Smash might as well have only 3rd party newcomers from now on, making it a true crossover cluster**** of just about anything 'relevant' and high selling, on whatever platform.

Seriously, 3rd party character discussion is the most speculative we can do. Nintendo characters don't generate as much money or hype anymore. They much rather add Crash Bandicoot than Isaac, King K.Rool or Bandana Dee. At this rate, I might try and get excited for Inkling as that, alongside my non-favorite ARMS character, might be the only true Nintendo newcomers.

There are plenty of Nintendo newcomers that will come Diddy.

Don't be so melodramatic.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

There are plenty of Nintendo newcomers that will come Diddy.

Don't be so melodramatic.

Name me 10 potential newcomers, not counting Inklings and ARMS character.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Assuming this is a "prove that a pool of characters exists" not "I want swamp's personal opinion"

Name me 10 potential newcomers, not counting Inklings and ARMS character.

1. Viridi
1. Toad
2. Bandana Dee
3. Dixie Kong
4. Ill play fair and only list "Alola pokemon" as one choice
5. Paper Mario
6. Krystal
7. Impa
8. Isbelle
9. K rool
10. Sylux


I didn't even dig into IPs not playable in smash
not any retros

Also ignored stuff like "Fire Emblem newcomer" or Ridley.


We're fine

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Name me 10 potential newcomers, not counting Inklings and ARMS character.

Zebei did it super well.

I mean ****.

You act like we have literally every Nintendo character ever.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Assuming this is a "prove that a pool of characters exists" not "I want swamp's personal opinion"


1. Viridi
1. Toad
2. Bandana Dee
3. Dixie Kong
4. Ill play fair and only list "Alola pokemon" as one choice
5. Paper Mario
6. Krystal
7. Impa
8. Isbelle
9. K rool
10. Sylux


I didn't even dig into IPs not playable in smash
not any retros

Also ignored stuff like "Fire Emblem newcomer" or Ridley.


We're fine

I now stand corrected.

Though I'm not sure about Toad... then again, you purposefully ignored some other stuff, so that balances out.

 

[Deleted member]

If we want to argue "potential", there's dozens if not hundreds of Nintendo characters in existence that could theoretically be included.

If we want to argue "plausibility", that's where things get a little....difficult.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If we want to argue "potential", there's dozens if not hundreds of Nintendo characters in existence that could theoretically be included.

If we want to argue "plausibility", that's where things get a little....difficult.

Even then you could still find more than 10 plausible characters not counting Splatoon and ARMS.