Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[GmailDotCom]

Im not even gonna lie, Nintendo is doing a really awesome job, I have to give them props they are def making up for the ****ty Wii U era

 

[UltimateWario]

A lot of the hype that some people had died down a bit when Sakurai said not to expect as many newcomers. I see a lot of people expect less than 7 newcomers remaining(10 total)

That is honestly pretty sad. It's making me wonder if it was honestly worth it.

There are damn near 70 characters. How many do people want?!

 

[GmailDotCom]

That too. I just mean Wolverine is the one mutant that would've held out people long enough for DLC if he was base.

And Jill's like my favorite RE character too. Especially in the card game. >.>

you really think they'll do Marvel vs Capcom characters?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Fixed*
Echo Fighter Concept/Prediction #3:

Dry Bowser ε

Differences:

• Slightly lighter and faster than Bowser.
• Blue fire
• Taunts that express unique personality (Dissembling, holding head like a ball)
• Victory Poses with Dry Bones and Boo
• Overall, different personality and animations that are purely aesthetic.

I feel that the only real differences between Bowser and Dry Bowser would be their flame color, their taunts, and how their Final Smashes would operate; attributes would still be the same. In the case of Dry Bowser, his flames would be recolored blue, and for his Final Smash, while he would change into a new entity called Dry Giga Bowser, instead of delivering a powerful punch, he would instead breathe a highly damaging stream of fire that instantly KOs those who have over 100% damage.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

and gets around easier.

Phrasing.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Last one.
Echo Fighter Concept/Prediction #4:

Impa ε

Notable Differences

• Heavier, stronger, and more buff than Sheik.
• Unique taunts and victory/losing animations of course.
• Giant's Knife Final Smash (Same as Cloud's Final Smash)

I feel that the only real differences between Bowser and Dry Bowser would be their flame color, their taunts, and how their Final Smashes would operate; attributes would still be the same. In the case of Dry Bowser, his flames would be recolored blue, and for his Final Smash, while he would change into a new entity called Dry Giga Bowser, instead of delivering a powerful punch, he would instead breathe a highly damaging stream of fire that instantly KOs those who have over 100% damage.

Having his skin and meat shed and being only bones is what makes him lighter (this is actually canon in Mario & Sonic at The Olympic Games as Dry Bowser states)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

you really think they'll do Marvel vs Capcom characters?

Er, what?

I was just replying to something unrelated to Smash, really.

Anyway, there's very few "originated in MVC" choices. Or do you mean moves akin to MVC, like EX Mechanic?

 

[Wyoming]

A lot of the hype that some people had died down a bit when Sakurai said not to expect as many newcomers. I see a lot of people expect less than 7 newcomers remaining(10 total)

That is honestly pretty sad. It's making me wonder if it was honestly worth it.

Can't please everyone. Well, they dd please everyone who played every Smash game at least. Lovin' seeing Saffron City, Kongo Jungle, Fourside, Magicant in superrrrr HD. Why no Fountain of Dreams though!

Don't fret yet newcomer-fans. You have the next six months and DLC to be excited about. After getting every veteran, I don't care who gets in anymore. Open the gates!

 

[Radical Bones]

Just on the topic of Echo fighters, I know that Lucina has a different mechanic with her sword, but her weight, speed and falling speed are identical to Marth's. The same goes for Pit and Dark Pit, so I can only presume that this is one of the key factors in deciding whether or not the character is an Echo.

I wouldn't predict new Echo characters with new speed and weight statistics, otherwise we're going into semi-clone territory.

Weight and speed changes would also need damage output balancing.

This is key as to why Echo characters are so easy to implement - it is literally just a new shell.

Making Dry Bowser lighter and faster without adjusting his damage output just seems unfair.

 

[StrangeMann]

A lot of the hype that some people had died down a bit when Sakurai said not to expect as many newcomers. I see a lot of people expect less than 7 newcomers remaining(10 total)

That is honestly pretty sad. It's making me wonder if it was honestly worth it.

For Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Wolf, Pichu, Ice climbers, and young link? Worth absolutely.
I'm only expecting 5 more characters, although I'm impressed with the roster, I'm a bit sad because I know there's going to be people disappointed the character they cheered for didn't get in those 5 prestigious spots.
Bonus points of salt if some of those 5 spots are taken by more echo fighters.
To add to this, I'm pretty sure we're seeing Chorus men and Simon as 2 of those spots just because leftover data and vergeben stuff.

 

[GmailDotCom]

If were to do Capcom characters I think they'd add Dante.

 

[SmashChu]

Marvel vs Capcom 3 sold well, not denying that, but the competitive scene died out faster than Smash 4's at the same rate.

Good sales do not equal a healthy competitive scene, which is vital for a community to thrive like this.

Having been to tournaments, thats not true in the slightest. MvC3 had a consitent showing up until EVO 2017 where it had to get in through donations. It was usually the top game at EVO next to SF until Smash Bros came along (in part because Smash Bros sells more, funny how that works). MvC3 cut tons of characters, had great sales, had strong competitive community (second only to SF). There is no risk to Smash scaling back in the future.

 

[CodakTheWarrior]

There are damn near 70 characters. How many do people want?!

Right? It's really disheartening how greedy people are seeming just because we'll have less newcomers than before. I mean, we have EVERY character from Smash history in this game, plus Inkling, an obvious addition but still really unique, Daisy, a nice pleasant surprise, and gosh dang Ridley, a character that we've wanted for over a decade! People need to take a reality check and look at how amazing this crossover is for Pete's sake

 

[GmailDotCom]

Er, what?

I was just replying to something unrelated to Smash, really.

Anyway, there's very few "originated in MVC" choices. Or do you mean moves akin to MVC, like EX Mechanic?

My bad I got kinda lost for a sec lol.

Right? It's really disheartening how greedy people are seeming just because we'll have less newcomers than before. I mean, we have EVERY character from Smash history in this game, plus Inkling, an obvious addition but still really unique, Daisy, a nice pleasant surprise, and gosh dang Ridley, a character that we've wanted for over a decade! People need to take a reality check and look at how amazing this crossover is for Pete's sake

The thing is everyone wants their own favorite Nintendo character in smash so I don't think people will ever be satisfied

 

[Shroob]

Having been to tournaments, thats not true in the slightest. MvC3 had a consitent showing up until EVO 2017 where it had to get in through donations. It was usually the top game at EVO next to SF until Smash Bros came along (in part because Smash Bros sells more, funny how that works). MvC3 cut tons of characters, had great sales, had strong competitive community (second only to SF). There is no risk to Smash scaling back in the future.

Mmmk, we'll see about that.

Not like we'll even have a new Smash game until the next console generation anyway.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Having his skin and meat shed and being only bones is what makes him lighter (this is actually canon in Mario & Sonic at The Olympic Games as Dry Bowser states)

Still, Dry Bowser was among the heaviest racers in the original Wii U version of Mario Kart 8, so I wouldn't find it too odd if he got the echo fighter treatment.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Please don't double post. Edit your messages instead.

 

[Deleted member]

Is it crazy that I think Shadow is one of the most likely newcomers? He's a very popular character in a game that is clearly drawing heavily on the ballot. Sakurai mentioned that there was Western outcry for Ridley, Vergeben's leak said Simon did well on the ballot, the direct mentioned that the team thinks fans wanted every character to return, Inklings almost certainly did well on the ballot, and I don't think there's any reason to add Daisy outside of her popularity. And the whole "Echo Fighter" brand makes me think that it's a sneaky way for Sakurai to add more heavily requested characters as low effort additions to an otherwise small newcomer lineup. On top of all that his Assist Trophy is currently MIA. Honestly I would bet on Shadow as a Sonic echo before any other character (besides Simon) at this point.

Unrelated, but while everybody seems to be raving about the tiny UI changes, the score in time matches is still invisible. For all the small improvements you would think they'd add something as important as displaying the game's score, but nope. Hopefully it makes it to the final release.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I've seen a lot of people comment on this elsewhere. Honestly, as much as I don't have an issue with fanservice and the like design that Smash 4 had. I will say that, for Samus, her appearance in Other M and Smash 4 were kind of odd for her general characterization and lifestyle choice. Generally women who are muscular generally don't have D-cup breasts since well... breasts are mostly fat and when women exercise or built muscle they generally do have smaller breasts and do not have a very thin figure either. Though Samus is meant to at least appear beautiful or at least sexually attractive in many regards she was also often drawn to suggest she could throw any man or alien across a room if she felt like it. Even in Super Metroid her final image, though a little more sexualized then the zero suit, does seem to attempt to show some aspect of her intended physical attributes regardless of the less detailed sprite.

View attachment 148221

I had no direct issue with the Other M/Smash 4 design in theory because it's simply a different protrayal. I will say that I do prefer a design that is more true to the nature of her character then the overly fan service design.

I would say there’s pretty muscular women with

If you scroll up to her chest you'll see some much-needed nerfs.

Spoiler

Take that, Namco.

Samus still looks great as usual, no matter what is thrown at her

Hmm...I actually wonder which one would suit this design more: Southern gruff accent or British? I am leaning towards the latter personally.

British Accents fit nearly everything, so Wolf gotta go British if he ain’t gonna reuse his Brawl voice

 

[N3ON]

I agree Smash's trajectory isn't tenable, but that's an obstacle for a future Smash to tackle, not this one.

This one is going to have more content than ever, and, in all likelihood, very very strong sales. And if not, if this Smash buckles under its own weight and flops, I encourage SmashChu to tag me and serve me a delishus meal of crow.

 

[Megadoomer]

If were to do Capcom characters I think they'd add Dante.

I hope they'd add Dante. Not sure how likely he is, all things considered, (he'd be a third character from a company that has a MASSIVE amount of options, from Jill Valentine or Leon Kennedy to Monster Hunter to Phoenix Wright to Amaterasu) but given how many weapons he has, he'd be a ton of fun to play as, and it would be great to see an official crossover between him and Bayonetta.

 

[GmailDotCom]

Mmmk, we'll see about that.

Not like we'll even have a new Smash game until the next console generation anyway.

Aw **** I forgot about that, when do you think the best time is to release SSBU if not Dec 7th? Competitively speaking. (Ik the Dec release is so they can have massive sales during Christmas) but are you're saying by that time there will be a new Xbox and PlayStation for Smash and Switch sales to compete with?

 

[Shroob]

Aw **** I forgot about that, when do you think the best time is to release SSBU if not Dec 7th? Competitively speaking. (Ik the Dec release is so they can have massive sales during Christmas) but are you're saying by that time there will be a new Xbox and PlayStation for Smash and Switch sales to compete with?

......no, I'm not saying any of that. Are you alright? Do you need help?

 

[TumblrFamous]

I think out of any Echo fighter, Impa is the most realistic.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

If were to do Capcom characters I think they'd add Dante.

Nah dude. Monster Hunter or Phoenix Wright any day of the week. Monster Hunter is Capcom's most prominent series behind Megaman and Street Fighter, and Phoenix is a staple of Nintendo systems.

Though it'd be funny to actually have "Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series" on the cover.

I think out of any Echo fighter, Impa is the most realistic.

I'm placing my bets on Chrom. The conditions for him to get in as an Echo Fighter are too perfect.

 

[GmailDotCom]

......no, I'm not saying any of that. Are you alright? Do you need help?

I'm clapped, so my mind races/wanders (idk the word, its like my mind thinks one thing and then it moves to the other, of related subject)

If I type some stupid **** just ignore it

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I think out of any Echo fighter, Impa is the most realistic.

Now that Daisy is in and Dry Bowser could go either way, Impa would make the most sense

I'm placing my bets on Chrom. The conditions for him to get in as an Echo Fighter are too perfect.

Viridi and Palutena roasting the life out of Chrom for being a copy of someone else > Chrom being playable

 

[RandomAce]

Here are some things I was thinking about when it comes to this game.

A. Clones
I know realized why I don’t like Clone Fighters in Smash that much. It’s not because they steal or spot from someone or anything like that. It’s because it makes the roster bigger than it really is, and it shows when we’re speculating.

You see there are a total of 66 fighters in Smash Ultimate (68 if you count PKMN Trainer as three different, but officially, they’re one). And while it seems like there isn’t a lot of room left for newcomers, it isn’t because of the characters returning, and I’ll explain, but first the clones. There are a total of 7 clones in the game (including Echo characters).

Dr. Mario
Pichu
Young Link
Toon Link
Dark Pit
Lucina
Daisy

So I don’t really count these characters when speculating because they are very easy to create and probably took very little development for this game too.

So we really have 59 fighters more distinct fighters. So I think there is. more elbow room for the number of newcomers to get in.

B. Veterans
Now the only returning veteran that recieved the most changes is Wolf. Wolf has a new model, more distinctive move set, and most likley new VA. Snake and Pokemon Trainer didn’t receive that many changes aside from buffs, nerfs, and Pokémon Trainer’s Female Alt.

So what about the rest of the cast. We’ll a crap load of changes were made to the cast, however most of the fighters from Smash 4 remained mostly the with updated models and small changes.

The ones from Brawl most likely recieved new VA (except Snake and PKMN Trainer) and changes to their Final Smashes. But mostly remained the same.

Melee fighters have more notable changes, Mr. Game and Watch, Zelda, Ganondorf, Falco, Peach, etc. But have roughly the same move sets, except Ganondorf with some changes.

Original 12 got the most. With new looks, and some move set alterations, etc. But a lot retained most of their movesets.

So suffice to say, a majority of the characters had assets reused, with some updating and small changes. Even though he said that the changes could be in the thousands, it wasn’t what consumed most of their time. That goes to stages.

C. Stages
There are a total of 83 Stages in Smash 5 right now, and almost every stage from 3DS and pre-Smash Wii U were remade with new pleasing visuals. It’s insane the number of effort they put into them, and with some that are still not confirmed yet, they could have added in every stage from the series, giving us a whopping 110 stages! That is a lot! Yes, they most likley reused assets from the old ones, but with how radically more clean and different they look, it’s the stages that most likley took the most time, since there are so dam many of them.

That and with more newcomers and stages to come, this might be one of the most ambitious Smash games yet.

I just can’t last until December, but it’s probably for the better. The amount of attention shows how much remade and new content they’re willing to add, and the changes to the UI make it even better.

 

[GmailDotCom]

Now that Daisy is in and Dry Bowser could go either way, Impa would make the most sense

Viridi and Palutena roasting the life out of Chrom for being a copy of someone else > Chrom being playable

so you're saying that Impa is most likely as an Echo fighter because Daisy is in already?

 

[Wyoming]

Are we still expecting a retro character then? With supposedly sparse space I wonder if Sakurai will simply not go for that classic character of the past. Bubbles, Balloon Fighter, and Mach Rider were once a thought - perhaps a revisiting?

 

[P.Kat]

By the way, what are the odds that Sakurai may choose not to add a character from the ballot, even if that character had a high amount of votes and was way up there on it (the ballot)?

Pretty good since Lyn, Krystal, Waluigi, and Takamaru were excluded

 

[GmailDotCom]

Nah dude. Monster Hunter or Phoenix Wright any day of the week. Monster Hunter is Capcom's most prominent series behind Megaman and Street Fighter, and Phoenix is a staple of Nintendo systems.

Though it'd be funny to actually have "Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series" on the cover.


I'm placing my bets on Chrom. The conditions for him to get in as an Echo Fighter are too perfect.

I agree with you, those other characters didn't even cross my mind

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

You guys realize echo fighters are just clones, right? The thing we've had in Smash since the outset? The thing we get, in one form or another, every time? And they're the most underwhelming version of a clone - the near direct clone. Last week you would've been lit. up. for suggesting a character be a clone because of how it's a poor representation and whatnot.

This isn't new, the only thing different now is an epsilon, a name, and the fact that Sakurai doesn't even seem to consider them part of the series' tally.

I'm probably in the minority when I say this, but I'm (mostly) down for clones if it means more characters get representation in Smash to circumvent things like time constraints when characters are unable to get proper, distinctive move sets; or if their character mostly resembles another's anyway.

Characters like Ken or Akuma would work nicely as echo fighters, just give them their respective elements for their version of Ryu's attacks are usually associated with (fire and electricity respectively) and... well, that's it, aside from things like voice-overs and what not.

Characters being echo fighters like Ninten are kind of absurd to me, mostly because he doesn't have any sort of offensive PSI that Ness and Lucas do in their respective games, so I would at least expect for him to be a fighter that mostly uses physical attacks with a few PSI abilities that are unique to him.

 

[papagenos]

In regards to how many characters that are new will be in the game, let me ask this: How many third-party newcomers do you guys think will be in the game? I am predicting two.

im thinking two as well, to be specific simon and geno OR simon and rayman OR maybe simon and banjo-kazooie (this is only if the leak about the minecraft stage part of vergeben is right though i really feel they would have shown that at e3 if it was true).

i could see simon/geno/rayman/banjo all getting in after DLC IF things work out just right though, but thats like best case scenario optimism.

 

[GmailDotCom]

Pretty good since Lyn, Krystal, Waluigi, and Takamaru were excluded

why do the images have a giant red X over them?

Also that's happened in the past if I'm not mistaken, Sakurai could possibly ignore the ballot or postpone a character from the ballot in trade for a character he was personally working on

 

[TMNTSSB4]

so you're saying that Impa is most likely as an Echo fighter because Daisy is in already?

Yeah. I could’ve only seen Daisy get in as a clone (before the term Echo became a thing), and expected Impa to be a unique character...now I can see Impa going both ways

 

[Splotim]

Ok, so here’s a unrelated but happy thought I had. The commentators keep mentioning that this game is supposed to be aggressive, so much so that it seems like they were told to say that to make it a selling point of the game. So even though whether it actually favors aggression is up for debate, at least they’re trying to make Ulitmate a competitive game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Pretty good since Lyn, Krystal, Waluigi, and Takamaru were excluded

I wasn't really expecting those characters to make the cut anyway, so I'm not too disappointed.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

I just realized something crazy about this game now that all veterans are in. Smash DLC can only be newcomers! I personally was dissapointed that half of the Smash 4 dlc was veterans (Mewtwo was needed, Roy is eh and Lucas should just not have been cut). It'll be way more exciting anticipating dlc characters now.

Seriously now that Ridley is out of the way and I can rest easy this is the most fun Smash anticipation u have ever had.

Kind of sidenote...why are we discussing future smash already? We haven't even finished finding out about this one lol.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Are we still expecting a retro character then? With supposedly sparse space I wonder if Sakurai will simply not go for that classic character of the past. Bubbles, Balloon Fighter, and Mach Rider were once a thought - perhaps a revisiting?

Well melee only had time for 8 unique characters yet 2 of those were retro characters so I could see him still adding one