Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Ze Diglett]

Oh, Lord, I am so hyped for Pac-Man's grab to finally be good. That is the ultimate vindication right there. Between that and ROB's new Bury Down-Throw, I'm gonna have a lot of fun with grabs this game. Shulk's new MArts selection wheel has me pretty hyped, too, and I've more than warmed up to my boy Game & Watch's visual rework.

If Sakurai's considering this his ultimate Smash and his swan song.

Is it possible we might see him re-visit all his lost concepts in new ways? We have Sukapon as an assist and I know he wanted to include that at one point.

There's also Geno, Chorus Kids, etc.

I am very much expecting to see Geno at the very least in this game. He has the fanservice factor that I'm expecting out of most non-Echo newcomers this time around, and besides, the man's been at the top of Sakurai's personal wishlist for over a decade now. With his main barrier to entry (being property of Square Enix) having been effectively shattered between Smash 4 and Ultimate... I think it's time. Bring on the G-man!

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

So on the topic of Inklings since we've now seen them in action, what did you all think about the way they looked?

As someone who was pretty excited for them, I'm a little disappointed in what I saw. I don't think they look terribly fun. Maybe watching Mango catch those Sonic hands didn't help my perception of Inkling too much, but overall I felt like Inkling was a little underwhelming.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I love the content of the game, but it looks like there's only some mechanical improvement. I'll still get the game for the inevitable PM mod, at least.

That's a little different. Dixie using her hair is her signature ability. Funky Kong is not always seen using his surf board.

Have you ever played as Funky in Tropical Freeze?

 

[Zoa]

fighting games are almost never built from the ground up on original assets unless it's a new IP. momentum has been gone since brawl thats three games man. its nothing new. calling this game slow is comparing it only to melee. melee has unintentional movement within it and a lot of questionable other incusions that speed it up. smashU has been designed to have characters move faster, frames come out quicker, and more. and the smartest thing Nintendo changed was having knockback occur quicker it kills dead time in matches. defensive meta? were we watching the same thing? this game is not defensive rolling, spotdodes, airdodges, and directional airdodges are a resource. you cannot win games long term without an offensive ability.

lastly if you came to this smash game expecting movement option i cannot help you. nintendo isnt going to add something back into the game they never intended to be in the game in the first place. The recoveries are nerfed they are better than melee yes, but they aren't smash 4 level of length and reach. mario died in the 1v1 several times when i thought he'd make it by other games. as for ledge mehcanics without hands on time its hard to tell not sure how you can.

also i saw some posts earlier saying perfect shield was changed. its not really a perfect shield ita more of parry. its a skill based mechanic and thats good to see. Magnet hands have been heavily reduced and final smashes have been adjusted left and right.
People really expected smash to show everything. why? they never have. there are characters left to show. and more modes im sure.
the direction of this game looks great.

I've said it many times already. I've expected it to reuse assets given how close the release of the game is to the final updates of the Wii U version. Never have I compared it to Melee, nor in an indirect manner. All I've ever actually compared it to was Smash 4. I said there were things in Smash 4 I did not like, and would like to see gone. You're also jumping to conclusions too early when it comes to the game play. Watching something and actual execution within a developed meta are two separate things. I've openly stated that these are my beginning thoughts. I said I would follow the game for a while. I plan on looking at what changes there are down to the frame level when the data is available. It's just my opinion is currently not a positive one based on what I've seen.

Do you have proof for how recoveries have changed? That's a lot of data to submit. I doubt you can support the claim. Between the two of us, I doubt either of us have actual frame data. I sure don't. You agree that it's hard to tell without hands on. You need to hold your claims till we have evidence. I've made it pretty clear that this is just based on what I've witnessed without actual frame data. I'd ask you to do the same.

 

[BlondeLombax]

For anyone concerned that the return of literally everyone means that we won't have that many newcomers, don't lose hope. Keep a firm grasp on it: this game is still in development, and we only got a small tease in direct comparison to what Smash usually consists of as a whole. We have until the end of the year, so we can expect plenty more new fighters, all while enjoying the fact that literally everyone is returning for the better. It's never a good idea to surrender early on.

 

[Will]

How many trophies do you think Ultimate will have?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Give me Plusle and Minun

That was unconfirmed and just fan theories.

 

[UltimateWario]

So on the topic of Inklings since we've now seen them in action, what did you all think about the way they looked?

As someone who was pretty excited for them, I'm a little disappointed in what I saw. I don't think they look terribly fun. Maybe watching Mango catch those Sonic hands didn't help my perception of Inkling too much, but overall I felt like Inkling was a little underwhelming.

Really? I thought the inklings looked like a lot of fun, personally.

 

[Fenriraga]

So on the topic of Inklings since we've now seen them in action, what did you all think about the way they looked?

As someone who was pretty excited for them, I'm a little disappointed in what I saw. I don't think they look terribly fun. Maybe watching Mango catch those Sonic hands didn't help my perception of Inkling too much, but overall I felt like Inkling was a little underwhelming.

As someone who PLAYED them I can say they are an absolute blast. Mango wasn't really playing them in the style they're suited for, but he also was playing a new character against Sonic so the struggle is understandable.

Honestly, if you wanna talk unfun, I really wasn't digging Ridley.

But again I'll get more into that when I'm back at the hotel and can write this up. I'm also gonna try and get back in there on Thursday since people will be leaving all day.

 

[ErenJager]

Oh, Lord, I am so hyped for Pac-Man's grab to finally be good. That is the ultimate vindication right there. Between that and ROB's new Bury Down-Throw, I'm gonna have a lot of fun with grabs this game. Shulk's new MArts selection wheel has me pretty hyped, too, and I've more than warmed up to my boy Game & Watch's visual rework.

I am very much expecting to see Geno at the very least in this game. He has the fanservice factor that I'm expecting out of most non-Echo newcomers this time around, and besides, the man's been at the top of Sakurai's personal wishlist for over a decade now. With his main barrier to entry (being property of Square Enix) having been effectively shattered between Smash 4 and Ultimate... I think it's time. Bring on the G-man!

I right there with you on Geno.

Side note, I want Sakurai to satisfy my OCD and give two reps per third party company.

Geno, Belmont, Nacmo Character...

And i'm good I don't need any more third parties...

Except Ryu Hayabusa. But it feels like a very long shot.

 

[Originality]

So on the topic of Inklings since we've now seen them in action, what did you all think about the way they looked?

As someone who was pretty excited for them, I'm a little disappointed in what I saw. I don't think they look terribly fun. Maybe watching Mango catch those Sonic hands didn't help my perception of Inkling too much, but overall I felt like Inkling was a little underwhelming.

I agree entirely. They aren't anywhere near the playstyle I was expecting and hoping for. I'll try them out but they don't look like the insta main I thought they'd be

 

[Deleted member]

That's a little different. Dixie using her hair is her signature ability. Funky Kong is not always seen using his surf board.

That's literally like saying Cranky is fine without a cane just because there have been times he hasn't had it.

 

[Curious Villager]

If Sakurai's considering this his ultimate Smash and his swan song.

Is it possible we might see him re-visit all his lost concepts in new ways? We have Sukapon as an assist and I know he wanted to include that at one point.

There's also Geno, Chorus Kids, etc.

I can see him revisiting Dixie Kong, Toon Zelda and whoever the Rythm Heaven character was he apparently planned for Smash 4 for this game. Two of them seem to be fairly simple characters to implement if he needs to give the base newcomer lineup a bit of extra oompf. Maybe we will also finally find out what the whole Pra_Mai deal was... Probably not...

 

[StrangeMann]

3 Important factors to consider relating to number of remaining newcomers:
How many nintendo directs are there until december to reveal newcomers in?
Are we assuming Simon Belmont is happening?
How many unannounced newcomers will be hidden in the final game?

 

[MBRedboy31]

So on the topic of Inklings since we've now seen them in action, what did you all think about the way they looked?

As someone who was pretty excited for them, I'm a little disappointed in what I saw. I don't think they look terribly fun. Maybe watching Mango catch those Sonic hands didn't help my perception of Inkling too much, but overall I felt like Inkling was a little underwhelming.

I think it's hard to properly comment on their gameplay until we see footage of someone playing them who has practiced them more. I don't feel like the footage we saw really gave a particularly good idea of how their air game and their zoning will be, for one thing. What we saw did look rather awkward to me, though.
Of course, none of that really matters as balance will have changed when the game actually launches.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

.......not integral to his character.

....are we even talking about the same character?


And yet Funky without his surfboard isn't.

The surfboard is just something that was introduced to set him apart from the others in tropical freeze and allow him to use the abilities of all the other kongs, Dixie's hair has been a major part of Dixie for the past 20 years, Funky with DK's moveset would work fine and still be in character, Dixie with Diddy's moveset wouldn't imo

 

[Zoa]

On the topic of Link (finally), what do you guys think of him? His reach somehow appears even better, although I am uncertain of his mobility. His recovery has more reach (seems to look so), but distance looks unchanged. Remote Bombs definitely remind me of Duck Hunt's can in the way it can be used. His Final Smash happened to be one of my two guesses, and I am far from disappointed.

I'm very happy. I love how the Zelda series has been represented more so far. I dislike some things (Ganondorf still being Falcondorf for the most part), but Link was buffed overall. I saw his grab. It's just a plain grab, so it's not as punishable when whiffed. Remote Bombs have largely increased range, so bomb recoveries should be a lot easier. Plus the bombs are good for mindgames given how you can detonate it when you want. Apparently Nintendude found Link has a sword beam at 0%. Awesome little touch there.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

As someone who PLAYED them I can say they are an absolute blast. Honestly, if you want to talk unfun, I really wasn't digging Ridley.

But again I'll get more into that when I'm back at the hotel and can write this up. I'm also gonna try and get back in there on Thursday since people will be leaving all day.

Well I'm glad to hear someone say they were fun, at least. I'm probably viewing them with competitive goggles, and seeing Mango get destroyed by Sonic and all the dorks on Treehouse who would just splat roller everywhere made them look kinda lame. Also Splattershot looks kinda... Weird? I hope when I play them I love them, but I need more to be convinced.

 

[Will]

3 Important factors to consider relating to number of remaining newcomers:
How many nintendo directs are there until december to reveal newcomers in?
Are we assuming Simon Belmont is happening?
How many unannounced newcomers will be hidden in the final game?

4 I think?
Leaks are leaks.
Probably none.

 

[Blargg888]

Honestly, one of my favorite things about the Zelda cast in Smash Ultimate is the new Diversity present in their designs.
In Smash 4, All Zelda designs barring Toon Link were based off Twilight Princess (Including Sheik, even though she wasn't in TP), and in Melee they were all OoT, but now..
Link - BotW
Zelda - ALBW
Ganondorf - OoT
Young Link - MM
Toon Link - WW
and Sheik - TP

This is also the first time a Smash Zelda Character has been based off of a 2D Top-Down Zelda game, which is nice.

 

[BlondeLombax]

How many trophies do you think Ultimate will have?

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Honestly, one of my favorite things about the Zelda cast in Smash Ultimate is the new Diversity present in their designs.
In Smash 4, All Zelda designs barring Toon Link were based off Twilight Princess (Including Sheik, even though she wasn't in TP), and in Melee they were all OoT, but now..
Link - BotW
Zelda - ALBW
Ganondorf - OoT
Young Link - MM
Toon Link - WW
and Sheik - TP

This is also the first time a Smash Zelda Character has been based off of a 2D Top-Down Zelda game, which is nice.

Sheik is actually in BotW Sheikah armor, so there actually isn't a TP styled character in the game right now.

 

[Koopaul]

Have you ever played as Funky in Tropical Freeze?

That's one game. A relatively new one. Dixie as a playable hero has been around for a lot longer and her hair is famous. Funky Kong using his surf board in such a way in Tropical Freeze is brand new.

If it weren't for the Switch version of Tropical Freeze would you have said Funky's surf board was integral to his character?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

God, Zelda is just gorgeous in this. I'm actually glad they didn't go with BoTW Zelda now.

 

[ErenJager]

Time to adjust my signature...

Taking out confirmations and deconfirmations.

Confirmed: Wolf, Snake, YL, Pichu, Squirtle, Ivy, Icies, Ridley

Deconfirmed: Bomberman NOOOOO but atleast he's an AT. (also the roster is ripe for Belmont because of this)
...I guess Alph is deconfirmed but not really, I broke even there I think.

The rosters so good, every newcomer is just gravy/ icing on the cake now.

 

[Deleted member]

The surfboard is just something that was introduced to set him apart from the others in tropical freeze and allow him to use the abilities of all the other kongs, Dixie's hair has been a major part of Dixie for the past 20 years, Funky with DK's moveset would work fine, Dixie with Diddy's moveset wouldn't work imo

Sure.
The surfboard was introduced in Tropical Freeze.


It's never been anywhere else.



Absolutely nowhere.



Nowhere at all.

 

[Lukingordex]

So on the topic of Inklings since we've now seen them in action, what did you all think about the way they looked?

As someone who was pretty excited for them, I'm a little disappointed in what I saw. I don't think they look terribly fun. Maybe watching Mango catch those Sonic hands didn't help my perception of Inkling too much, but overall I felt like Inkling was a little underwhelming.

I don't think you're being fair with that assumption. That was literally the first time we've ever seen inkling's moveset and Mango clearly didn't know much about the specific aspects of the character (which is to be expected) and relied on his fundamentals to play the match. Inkling's main gimmick which is to administrate his ink levels and paint the ground to create a place where he can turn into a squid and recharge it wasn't used once by mango.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

God, Zelda is just gorgeous in this. I'm actually glad they didn't go with BoTW Zelda now.

Based on what we've seen, as long as she isn't trash tier again, I think Zelda might be my main in Ultimate. She looks gorgeous and based on what we've seen so far, they may have taken the necessary steps to improve her as a fighter.

 

[KingIceSonic]

99 percent of the development time went into the stages

They showed us 76 stages already, no wonder there aren't that many new characters lol they brought back almost all of the stages

 

[Deleted member]

....the images aren't loading, but you get the idea.

Funky's had the surfboard since his debut.
His whole persona is that of a SURFER (aside from the military phase he had for DK64).

 

[Fenriraga]

So since I've been on the show floor and missed a lot of snipits of the tourney, I have a question for YOU guys.

Did they say anything about turning off stage hazards?

Because Saffron and Frigate definitely didn't have em. But that may just be because it's still in development.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I don't think you're being fair with that assumption. That was literally the first time we've ever seem inkling's moveset and Mango clearly didn't knew much the specficis of the character (which is to be expected) and relied on his fundamentals. Inkling's main gimmick which is to administrate his ink levels and paint the ground to create a place where he can turn into a squid and recharge it wasn't used once by mango

I don't think there was ever confirmation that ground coverage does anything other than slow down opponents, though I very easily could be mistaken.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

I don't think you're being fair with that assumption. That was literally the first time we've ever seem inkling's moveset and Mango clearly didn't knew much the specficis of the character (which is to be expected) and relied on his fundamentals. Inkling's main gimmick which is to administrate his ink levels and paint the ground to create a place where he can turn into a squid and recharge it wasn't used once by mango

To be fair, I felt that way when watching both the Direct and Treehouse go over Inkling too. Mang0 getting bodied just made my feelings about it worse. He did say before the tournament that he thought Inklings felt good, though, so there's certainly hope. Obviously all I can give right now is a first impression, and really all I'm trying to say I was underwhelmed overall.

 

[Originality]

I don't think you're being fair with that assumption. That was literally the first time we've ever seem inkling's moveset and Mango clearly didn't knew much the specficis of the character (which is to be expected) and relied on his fundamentals. Inkling's main gimmick which is to administrate his ink levels and paint the ground to create a place where he can turn into a squid and recharge it wasn't used once by mango

During the treehouse they showed that Inklings don't actually need to be on their ink to recharge, so their kit isn't nearly as about stage control as I hoped

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Sure.
The surfboard was introduced in Tropical Freeze.


It's never been anywhere else.



Absolutely nowhere.



Nowhere at all.

Introduced was the wrong word, I meant it was the first time he actually used it for anything (I forgot he had it in sluggers tbh) but my point still stands that having Funky with DK's moveset is still fine and it'd still work for him, the board could still be used in other animations.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Are we assuming Simon Belmont is happening?

A lot of people seem to be on the bandwagon. However, I heavily doubt Simon's chances, as he could meet the same fate as Bomberman.

 

[MBRedboy31]

So since I've been on the show floor and missed a lot of snipits of the tourney, I have a question for YOU guys.

Did they say anything about turning off stage hazards?

Because Saffron and Frigate definitely didn't have em. But that may just be because it's still in development.

I should point out that, in the actual Direct video, Frigate does have its hazards. So, there either is a hazard switch or the E3 build is outdated. Hmm...

 

[StrangeMann]

Ganon has allegedly been... sort of decloned?
He's got new smash attacks for sure (which are direct upgrades of his older ones tbh), and allegedly one of his aerials is different.
Seeking more info.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

So since I've been on the show floor and missed a lot of snipits of the tourney, I have a question for YOU guys.

Did they say anything about turning off stage hazards?

Because Saffron and Frigate definitely didn't have em. But that may just be because it's still in development.

I can't imagine they'd put unfinished stages in the playable demo. They could've just kept the stages to Battlefield and FD and maybe a couple new ones if they weren't ready. I'm fairly convinced there's a stage hazard toggle. Also, I forgot to mention, Coney stated that stage hazards were happening in the demo backstage. So they were programmed already and just weren't in the invitational. That's another reason I'm convinced there's a toggle somewhere.

 

[Curious Villager]

So since I've been on the show floor and missed a lot of snipits of the tourney, I have a question for YOU guys.

Did they say anything about turning off stage hazards?

Because Saffron and Frigate definitely didn't have em. But that may just be because it's still in development.

Considering the lack of animation on the floating platforms, I might take a gander and assume they just weren't finished yet...