Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

At the very least, I doubt Sakurai would make a fourth KI character for the sake of keeping Palutena's specials. There's plenty of better ways he could spend development time on characters.

It's also possible that Palutena's special moves would not have received much hate if they were actually good. Counter has one of the longest start-up periods, and the counterattack's KO potency is poor when compared to all the other Counter variants that exist.

The developers made Corrin's Counter Surge less powerful, but they could've at least tried to improve Palutena's Counter in the process.

 

[Delzethin]

Don't forget the bias to his own developed Kirby games.

That's not true, by the way, it's another hasty assumption that spread because pointing fingers is one of the internet's national pastimes. In fact, the Great Cave Offensive stage was based specifically on Kirby Super Star Ultra, the remake that Sakurai didn't have a hand in.

 

[Dee Dude]

2 more to go. I'm conflicted with either Meowth or Decideye for the Pokemon newcomer and I'm thinking about Issac for the last slot. (Even though I never played Golden Sun.)

 

[osby]

He still had every single Kirby stage be based on his Kirby games instead of Adventure Wii and Triple Deluxe.

So... we won't get Kid Icarus stages from first two games?

 

[Jetsurge]

So... we won't get Kid Icarus stages from first two games?

Yes unless you count Skyworld from Brawl

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And yet the original plan for Smash 4 had an Epic Yarn stage planned.

This was switched when Sakurai learned about Wooly World and didn't want to copy aesthetic.

tbf he could have chosen a different game to pick a stage from

That's not true, by the way, it's another hasty assumption that spread because pointing fingers is one of the internet's national pastimes. In fact, the Great Cave Offensive stage was based specifically on Kirby Super Star Ultra, the remake that Sakurai didn't have a hand in.

How was the Great Cave Offensive changed from the original to Ultra other than some treasures? Either way, it's still a remake of Sakurai's game, I don't get your argument because if Super Star didn't exist, neither would Ultra

 

[Cosmic77]

For KI and its characters?

Absolute bull****.

The original plan was to have Pit and Palutena.

Both had every reason to be there.

Dark Pit was only last minute clone that wasn't a part of the plan but was able to be squeezed in at the end.

No bias affected the KI characters in the roster.

I loathe the term Sakurai bias. It ignores context and switches on a whim.

For Brawl, Sakurai was apparently biased towards Kirby and Star Fox.

Now its Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem.

Next game, it'll be whoever gets lucky. Who knows? Might be Splatoon and Animal Crossing for all we know.

Sakurai might be biased on certain things.

But it ain't the way people think it is.

Bah!

Look, I can understand the argument for FE, but denying Sakurai bias with KI? Trust me, it exists.

All of the KI content was basically from one game. We got six new KI items, two new Assist Trophies, four new remixes, two new stages, enough trophies in the 3DS version to rival Zelda, a special conversation gimmick, a gazillion Smash Run enemies, a special last-minute clone character for Pit, and a terrible Classic mode inspired by Uprising.

If that's not Sakurai bias, I don't know what is.

 

[Jetsurge]

View attachment 147413
2 more to go. I'm conflicted with either Meowth or Decideye for the Pokemon newcomer and I'm thinking about Issac for the last slot. (Even though I never played Golden Sun.)

I'd go with Mimikyu for the Pokemon slot.

 

[Arcadenik]

They did it for little mac didn't they? strange they only did it for him

Probably because it fits him more than others. It's also in the Punch-Out!! games. Look at the bottom of this sprite sheet. Link

 

[TheWozny]

4 day left.

This wait is killing me.

 

[Zinith]

4 Days left... That reminds me.

The Nevada primaries is that day. **** I need to catch up on who I'm voting for

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Look, I can understand the argument for FE, but denying Sakurai bias with KI? Trust me, it exists.

All of the KI content was basically from one game. We got six new KI items, four remixes, two new stages, enough trophies in the 3DS version to rival Zelda, a special conversation gimmick, a gazillion Smash Run enemies, a terrible Classic mode inspired by Uprising.

If that's not Sakurai bias, I don't know what is.

If I remember correctly Sakurai chose to make the game on 3DS because getting Uprising assets was easier.
Also I wasn't around then but why was there 'Star Fox bias' in Brawl? I get the Kirby bias argument due to 2 newcomers but I feel Kirby kind of needed those two. I don't agree with 'Kid Icarus' or 'Fire Emblem' bias because well, Uprising was new and Pit would need new stuff from it and Fire Emblem's representation outside of characters is barely there

 

[Delzethin]

How was the Great Cave Offensive changed from the original to Ultra other than some treasures? Either way, it's still a remake of Sakurai's game, I don't get your argument because if Super Star didn't exist, neither would Ultra

My argument is due to Sakurai himself saying it was based on Super Star Ultra in particular.

I can't find the original quote at the moment because a quick search didn't turn it up and I'm too dead tired at the moment to bend over backward looking for it, but it's a thing.

Also I wasn't around then but why was there 'Star Fox bias' in Brawl? I get the Kirby bias argument due to 2 newcomers but I feel Kirby kind of needed those two. I don't agree with 'Kid Icarus' or 'Fire Emblem' bias because well, Uprising was new and Pit would need new stuff from it and Fire Emblem's representation outside of characters is barely there

Kirby was accused of bias because it got two newcomers and because all three Kirby characters did important plot stuff in Subspace Emissary. Star Fox was accused of bias because Wolf got in late and was accused of "stealing a slot" from "more deserving" characters. Funny how history repeats itself, isn't it?

 

[Arcadenik]

2 more to go. I'm conflicted with either Meowth or Decideye for the Pokemon newcomer

Why not both?

Meowth and Decidueye both getting in the Smash roster would get me hyped!

 

[P.Kat]

For KI and its characters?

Absolute bull****.

The original plan was to have Pit and Palutena.

Both had every reason to be there.

Dark Pit was only last minute clone that wasn't a part of the plan but was able to be squeezed in at the end.

No bias affected the KI characters in the roster.

I loathe the term "Sakurai bias." It ignores context and switches on a whim.

For Brawl, Sakurai was apparently biased towards Kirby and Star Fox.

Now its Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem.

Next game, it'll be whoever gets lucky. Who knows? Might be Splatoon and Animal Crossing for all we know.

Sakurai might be biased on certain things.

But it ain't the way people think it is.

Bah!

Alright fair enough

 

[osby]

Probably because it fits him more than others. It's also in the Punch-Out!! games. Look at the bottom of this sprite sheet. Link

It's also likely to be easier, it's just Little Man's costumes put on to wireframe alt.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

My argument is due to Sakurai himself saying it was based on Super Star Ultra in particular.

I can't find the original quote at the moment because a quick search didn't turn it up and I'm too dead tired at the moment to bend over backward looking for it, but it's a thing.


Kirby was accused of bias because it got two newcomers and because all three Kirby characters did important plot stuff in Subspace Emissary. Star Fox was accused of bias because Wolf got in late and was accused of "stealing a slot" from "more deserving" characters. Funny how history repeats itself, isn't it?

Again, the only difference is an extra word in the title, it's still Super Star. Especially as Ultra's more popular things like Galacta Knight and Masked Dedede are things that could be used for an Assist Trophy or Final Smash. Galacta Knight's trophy being locked behind some achievement I can't remember does mean his popularity is acknowledged but I want whatever the hell Sakurai was smoking when he decided Dedede's new final Smash was acceptable

 

[Delzethin]

but I want whatever the hell Sakurai was smoking when he decided Dedede's new final Smash was acceptable

It's called "The 3DS wouldn't have been able to handle Waddle Dee Army and that move was really unreliable anyway since it only got KOs if you lucked out and a Gordo hit someone, so let's make something original".

I would've made his Final Smash be Grand Hammer, personally. Would've made for a good counterpart to Kirby's Ultra Sword.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's not true, by the way, it's another hasty assumption that spread because pointing fingers is one of the internet's national pastimes. In fact, the Great Cave Offensive stage was based specifically on Kirby Super Star Ultra, the remake that Sakurai didn't have a hand in.

Even if Sakurai wasn't involved with Kirby Super Star Ultra, it still uses contents from the original game that Sakurai did design.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

It's called "The 3DS wouldn't have been able to handle Waddle Dee Army and that move was really unreliable anyway since it only got KOs if you lucked out and a Gordo hit someone, so let's make something original".

I would've made his Final Smash be Grand Hammer, personally. Would've made for a good counterpart to Kirby's Ultra Sword.

The issue isn't just that Waddle Dee Army got removed, it's how the new one has no charm and isn't from the source material at all, if he had Masked Dedede as a power up Final Smash instead I can guarantee you there'd be less people complaining.

 

[92MilesPrower]

4 Days left... That reminds me.

The Nevada primaries is that day. **** I need to catch up on who I'm voting for

Yesterday was 4 days left, today is the 9th, meaning:

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yesterday was 4 days left, today is the 9th, meaning:
View attachment 147414

WROOOOOONG it's more than 72 hours, it's currently 75 hours and 15 minutes

 

[TheWozny]

I just found it insulting that KI had more reps than Metroid or DK.

(And it seemed that KI got a suspicious amount of content in the games).

If KI gets 4 reps in Smash 5, I will be incredibly suspicious.

———————————————————————

I’d have no issue with another Kirby character because (sorry) Kirby is a much more deserving franchise than KI.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Mmm verg actually got the MVCI DLC right... Damn they would have been awesome.

More evidence of his leaks being true in the pic.

Edit: some confirmed vets http://www.newsweek.com/nintendo-e3-2018-super-smash-bros-pokemon-switch-901553

So



All confirmed safe then? If he's reliable.

 

[osby]

So



All confirmed safe then? If he's reliable.

They weren't really in danger to begin with.

 

[TheWozny]

So



All confirmed safe then? If he's reliable.

I think the only three that were actually in danger were Bayonetta, DH, and Shulk.

I wonder if there’s any newcomer props...

 

[SquashiniKun]

3 Days left until you all die!

 

[Zeox]

I just found it insulting that KI had more reps than Metroid or DK.

(And it seemed that KI got a suspicious amount of content in the games).

If KI gets 4 reps in Smash 5, I will be incredibly suspicious.

———————————————————————

I’d have no issue with another Kirby character because (sorry) Kirby is a much more deserving franchise than KI.

what if KI gets 4 but Metroid and DK get new reps too?

 

[osby]

what if KI gets 4 but Metroid and DK get new reps too?

A riot, because character number per series should purely be determined by sales.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

They weren't really in danger to begin with.

I think the only three that were actually in danger were Bayonetta, DH, and Shulk.

I wonder if there’s any newcomer props...

Yea it was a asafe bet for all 6 especially duck hunt he's in the catergory of R.O.B and Mr game And watch of 100% safe retros that made history

 

[One winged Devil]

I just found it insulting that KI had more reps than Metroid or DK.

(And it seemed that KI got a suspicious amount of content in the games).

If KI gets 4 reps in Smash 5, I will be incredibly suspicious.

———————————————————————

I’d have no issue with another Kirby character because (sorry) Kirby is a much more deserving franchise than KI.

Sakurai made Uprising so of course it got a lot of content, I fail to see the problem.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I just found it insulting that KI had more reps than Metroid or DK.

(And it seemed that KI got a suspicious amount of content in the games).

If KI gets 4 reps in Smash 5, I will be incredibly suspicious.

———————————————————————

I’d have no issue with another Kirby character because (sorry) Kirby is a much more deserving franchise than KI.

Honestly I disagree, again, Dark Pit was added last minute with only 9 gameplay influencing changes total iirc which is a disservice to Dark Pit's character, his whole shtick is that he hates being similar to Pit and wants his own identity. DK's second character was done as an overdue love letter to DKC and 64 and Metroid's second character is just the same character but to fill an archetype that Sakurai wanted with seemingly little care put into

 

[Arcadenik]

Mmm verg actually got the MVCI DLC right... Damn they would have been awesome.

More evidence of his leaks being true in the pic.

Edit: some confirmed vets http://www.newsweek.com/nintendo-e3-2018-super-smash-bros-pokemon-switch-901553

So there's a chance the following characters might be the first veterans shown at E3 2018?



I am so giddy at the thought of the possibility that Duck Hunt Dog could be one of the first Smash Switch characters revealed at E3 2018.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So... we won't get Kid Icarus stages from first two games?

Probably...but that isn’t really gonna be a bad thing since Uprising has way too many places that can become levels

I think the only three that were actually in danger were Bayonetta, DH, and Shulk.

I wonder if there’s any newcomer props...

I’d say neither of them were in danger, especially Duck Hunt

I just found it insulting that KI had more reps than Metroid or DK.

(And it seemed that KI got a suspicious amount of content in the games).

If KI gets 4 reps in Smash 5, I will be incredibly suspicious.

———————————————————————

I’d have no issue with another Kirby character because (sorry) Kirby is a much more deserving franchise than KI.

They just have good character choices
Well Ridley wasn’t available, Dixie got shot, and Bandana Dee probably wasn’t popular enough for Sakurai to bring

Look, I can understand the argument for FE, but denying Sakurai bias with KI? Trust me, it exists.

All of the KI content was basically from one game. We got six new KI items, two new Assist Trophies, four new remixes, two new stages, enough trophies in the 3DS version to rival Zelda, a special conversation gimmick, a gazillion Smash Run enemies, a special last-minute clone character for Pit, and a terrible Classic mode inspired by Uprising.

If that's not Sakurai bias, I don't know what is.

The classic mode on 3DS was great...as for Smash Run, that’s only because of the fact that Uprising was made on 3DS and it was easier to port those enemies to the game

 

[Skyblade12]

The only problem with the custom special moves was the way they were unlocked. Their potential does exist if given the chance.

Well, that, and that most of them were very underwhelming. Only the Miis and Palutena had true customs. Everyone else just had really bland variations on their moves.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

A riot, because character number per series should purely be determined by sales.

You're kidding right?

 

[osby]

You're kidding right?

Yep.


Also, interesting, I just noticed all three fighters in the teaser were first party. Wonder if this means anything.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

So there's a chance the following characters might be the first veterans shown at E3 2018?



I am so giddy at the thought of the possibility that Duck Hunt Dog could be one of the first Smash Switch characters revealed at E3 2018.

And a starter

And you what with bayonetta that pretty much confirms safe as well since sega is involved

 

[Mogu]

And a starter

And you what with bayonetta that pretty much confirms safe as well since sega is involved

I don't think there was ever any doubt that Sonic was gonna stay though. Pretty obvious he wouldn't be cut.

 

[Pakky]

Where be dem leaks homies?