Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MasterOfKnees]

Dedede is more of a greedy idiot, that's why in brawl he was stealing and collecting thropies, he is not a good guy, but he is also not evil.

Dedede collected them presumably because he knew what was going on, so he placed those resurrection badges on the trophies he had stolen so they could save everyone after the Subspace took over. It's pretty much his exact same role as in Kirby's Adventure, he's first assumed to be a bad guy until it's proven that he was doing something for the greater good.

You can definitely pass him off as a villain though, they just need to give him some motivation that appeals to his gluttonous and selfish nature, everything he does tends to go back to being in his own best interest.

 

[Zeox]

UHMMMM
EXCUSE ME????

Dedede wasn't a greedy idiot in Smash, and he wasn't stealing trophies, he wanted to save them.
He took only three: Ness and Peach/Zelda (who've been stolen by Wario, who was going to bring them to Master Hand) and Luigi, who was threatening one of his minions.

Back at his place, he even decided to sacrifice himself by giving his own "resuscitation medallion" to Ness (was it Ness? I think it was Ness).
Dedede in Brawl was literally one of the heroes.

You just triggered me, boy.

Dedede stole my family's food and laugh at me when he defeated me in a race.
He is the most evil character of all videogame history.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Dedede is more of a greedy idiot, that's why in brawl he was stealing and collecting thropies, he is not a good guy, but he is also not evil.

For the most part, Dedede is simply a rival / anti-hero character, so he doesn't exactly fit in with the true villains.

 

[Fenriraga]

Ugh, damn. Been going back and forth with some E3 support in a can hope that I can get a Mulligan on the Smash Registration. Apparently they're being VERY strict about the timing window, which is fair, but still. Ugh.

Even gone so far as to email Nintendo's promotional customer support. Nothing back on that end though.

Really want to play Smaaaaash. I have a gut feeling some registration spots might be getting sold on eBay or something starting tomorrow...

 

[Zeox]

For the most part, Dedede is simply a rival / anti-hero character, so he doesn't exactly fit in with the true villains.

If they pay him with a lot of food, he would help them... or if something posses him... in fact, what if dark matter is the one villain but he is possesing dedede, and when you defeat him you have to fight against a big dark matter boss?

 

[osby]

With so little true villains, I don't think developers would had a hard time grouping Dedede with Ganondorf and Bowser.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Nintendo's got a lot of antagonists but is a bit short in full on villains.

is the only Smash character that fits the bill of 24/7 unambiguous evil.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Besides, we can go for Pokémon characters outside Gen 1 (there’s already 4 of them still alive)

I'm cool if the last Gen 1 Pokemon happens to be Gengar and then focus on the newer generations

But Gen 2, 3, and 5 needs some love too

 

[Opossum]

In "co-inky-dink" news

> Not even a mention of Celica despite no-hopers like Lip and Paula being listed.

Yeah okay SourceGaming.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I feel like the definition of a villain in Smash is pretty loose when Wario was one of them in SSE. If the theme is Heroes vs Villains then anyone who could in any way, shape or form be passed off as a villain likely will be.

 

[osby]

Nintendo's got a lot of antagonists but is a bit short in full on villains.

is the only Smash character that fits the bill of 24/7 unambiguous evil.

I think there are numerous villains, just not much with popularity or frequency.

 

[Fenriraga]

I honestly believe Smash should have 1 and only 1 Pokemon for each generation. Yes, even if that means cutting the likes of and . I just feel like each generation deserves representation, you know?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If they pay him with a lot of food, he would help them... or if something posses him... in fact, what if dark matter is the one villain but he is possesing dedede, and when you defeat him you have to fight against a big dark matter boss?

Dedede has been possessed by bigger threats before, so that could potentially work in a story-based adventure.

 

[Deleted member]

ITT: People don't know the difference between villains and antagonists

Elma, Mimikyu, Medusa and the Chorus Men are Brawl-era wishes?

I never said all of them were, could probably have worded it better.

 

[osby]

I honestly believe Smash should have 1 and only 1 Pokemon for each generation. Yes, even if that means cutting the likes of and . I just feel like each generation deserves representation, you know?

Cut Lucina and give Fire Emblem 10 newcomers.

 

[.Shìkì]

Nintendo's got a lot of antagonists but is a bit short in full on villains.

is the only Smash character that fits the bill of 24/7 unambiguous evil.

Actually, there is at least 1 version of him that is not unambiguous evil but more "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" : Wind-Waker Ganondorf, who originally just wanted to defeat the ruling family in Hyrule because they were being ***** and let the Gerudo suffer in the desert. Only he went about it in the wrong way.

The only Nintendo-villain I'd label "unambigously evil" is Ridley...and maybe Demise, but Demise has no personality anyway.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Actually, there is at least 1 version of him that is not unambiguous evil but more "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" : Wind-Waker Ganondorf, who originally just wanted to defeat the ruling family in Hyrule because they were being ***** and let the Gerudo suffer in the desert. Only he went about it in the wrong way.

The only Nintendo-villain I'd label "unambigously evil" is Ridley...and maybe Demise, but Demise has no personality anyway.

I'd also add in Pokey/Porky.

You know you're the bad guy when you make Giygas look sympathetic in comparison.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I feel like the definition of a villain in Smash is pretty loose when Wario was one of them in SSE. If the theme is Heroes vs Villains then anyone who could in any way, shape or form be passed off as a villain likely will be.

Wario is mostly a selfish and greedy pig though, and it's not like everything he does is evil.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

I honestly believe Smash should have 1 and only 1 Pokemon for each generation. Yes, even if that means cutting the likes of and . I just feel like each generation deserves representation, you know?

Nah man that wouldn't work now. If it was in Melee/Brawl, that's a different story. But those four are pretty much the prime Gen 1 reps and aren't leaving anytime soon...I swear if Mewtwo gets cut again, Sakurai is going to deal with all too raging fans

As far as Lucario and Greninja goes right now, they are the faces of their generation so they deserve the slots. Whoever is the Get 7 rep(s) is going to be a no-brainer with being the face of the series.


I feel that while Melee and Brawl had some big names to join their roster, Wii U/3DS was more of a "new breed" roster with introducing a lot of newer characters that came from 2001 and onwards. If you look at the comparison


Before 2001: Pacman, Little Mac, Duck Hunt, Palutena, Megaman, Cloud, Ryu

2001 onwards: Villager, Bowser Jr, Rosalina, Wii Fit Trainer, Dark Pit, Shulk, Robin, Lucina, Greninja, Corrin, Bayonetta, Miis


So for this game, we need some big names to show up to balance it rather than putting it all about the new generation of Nintendo stars though

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Wario is mostly a selfish and greedy pig though, and it's not like everything he does is evil.

That's exactly my point, he's not actually evil, but was still one of the villains in SSE. If he can be a bad guy then the likes of Dedede and Mewtwo can too.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So it's pretty much going to be some of the following right now: a 3rd party, a popular 1st party character, and a WTF to lighten the mood like they did with WFT

Actually the more I think about it, it should be the following plus a returning veteran like Snake, Wolf, or IC to help spark the interest up. IC and Snake would bring people in while Wolf can become an unlockable or DLC to spark more interest

 

[Zeox]

Actually the more I think about it, it should be the following plus a returning veteran like Snake, Wolf, or IC to help spark the interest up. IC and Snake would bring people in while Wolf can become an unlockable or DLC to spark more interest

So, something kinda like Simon Belmont, Ridley and the Ice Climbers

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So for this game, we need some big names to show up to balance it rather than putting it all about the new generation of Nintendo stars though

New =/= Not a big star.

You put Villager under your new category. Is he not a big star?

What about Inkling?

 

[Diddy Kong]

I honestly believe Smash should have 1 and only 1 Pokemon for each generation. Yes, even if that means cutting the likes of and . I just feel like each generation deserves representation, you know?

Nothing from other generations is gonna be worth it cutting the two MOST POPULAR Pokemon ever ; Mewtwo and Charizard, and one of the Original 12.

We don't NEED every generation represented. I don't get why that's even an issue. I also don't get the forced "need" for a Grass type starter.

It's all just too forced.

Nothing from other generations are popular and notable enough honestly.

 

[Deleted member]

In "co-inky-dink" news

I feel like I can only fully agree with their Top 2 characters. I mean, Susie, really? I'm getting tired of one-off Kirby villains being talked about like they're actually relevant, Ghirahim and Zant have better standing than them.

Actually, there is at least 1 version of him that is not unambiguous evil but more "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" : Wind-Waker Ganondorf, who originally just wanted to defeat the ruling family in Hyrule because they were being ***** and let the Gerudo suffer in the desert. Only he went about it in the wrong way.

The only Nintendo-villain I'd label "unambigously evil" is Ridley...and maybe Demise, but Demise has no personality anyway.

Just because he had some good intentions, it doesn't change the fact he's a villain.
Characters can be sympathetic, tragic and have good intentions while being full-on villains, they don't need to be 100% about killing people and kicking puppies.

 

[Zeox]

This is not the Super Smash Bros that we want, but this is the Super Smash Bros we deserve:

Spoiler

 

[Zerp]

Pokemon is literally so big (World's most successful media franchise) that I think it'd be fine to just not cut anything and still add a character for every generation without a playable character honestly.

 

[osby]

This is not the Super Smash Bros that we want, but this is the Super Smash Bros we deserve:

Spoiler

View attachment 146887

Talk for yourself, this is the Smash I want.

 

[Deleted member]

This is not the Super Smash Bros that we want, but this is the Super Smash Bros we deserve:

Spoiler

View attachment 146887

At least they're keeping Ness.
I'd main the "You know I had to do it to 'em" guy, can you imagine his taunts?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

That's exactly my point, he's not actually evil, but was still one of the villains in SSE. If he can be a bad guy then the likes of Dedede and Mewtwo can too.

Dedede and Mewtwo are debatable though. Dedede has done some questionable actions, but those actions were for good reasons. As for Mewtwo, although its Pokedex entries state that it has the most savage heart of all Pokemon, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's evil.

 

[TonyMyOnly]

How did the Deeds know about subspace?

 

[Zeox]

Dedede and Mewtwo are debatable though. Dedede has done some questionable actions, but those actions were for good reasons. As for Mewtwo, although its Pokedex entries state that it has the most savage heart of all Pokemon, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's evil.

He was the main antagonist of the first pokemon movie, I know that's doesn't make him evil but is not impossible to imagine mewtwo being evil or at least dangerous for the good guys.

 

[Bowserlick]

Wolf is most certainly a villain.

He took money to assist a mad scientist in genocide and invasion by trying to wipe out the only resistance.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

How did the Deeds know about subspace?

Good question. Thatś shown in one of the many cut cutscenes for the game.

You know, the stuff they made to explain stuff so that the plot wasn a confusing mess. Like how the Subspace army got the Halberd.

But then they cut them.

This is one reason why I think SSE was a mess. Even if it was a cool mess.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I feel that while Melee and Brawl had some big names to join their roster, Wii U/3DS was more of a "new breed" roster with introducing a lot of newer characters that came from 2001 and onwards.

Makes sense. If Sakurai believes that the older generation had most of their big names characters, why wouldn't he focus more on newer characters?

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So, something kinda like Simon Belmont, Ridley and the Ice Climbers

Possibly but they can always surprise us

New =/= Not a big star.

You put Villager under your new category. Is he not a big star?

What about Inkling?

There are some such as Villager and Inkling who are both. I put Villager in the 2001 to show where we are in the gaming list of newcomers from the previous game.

Again there are several iconic classic characters like K Rool, Dixie, Ridley, etc that deserves a shot in Smash. Once we get all of them out, we're gonna be scraping the bottom of the barrel for more classic characters to join the fray

 

[Pokechu]

> Not even a mention of Celica despite no-hopers like Lip and Paula being listed.

Yeah okay SourceGaming.

What's wrong with Lip? She seems like a good retro choice to me.

With Celica honestly I'm not sure if she'd be in my top 10 either, her hybrid play style with a sword and a tome is already being used by Robin and while she could have stronger attacks at the cost of dealing damage to herself, and also her own exclusive spells (Mila's Turnwheel, Ragnarok, etc.) that wouldn't change how her fundamental moveset would still be very similar to Robin's. Not to mention how she has competition with Lyn and imo Anna as the former won the popularity poll and the latter has a lot to draw from (axes, lances, her own goofy nature, etc.). Plus as a whole Fire Emblem really doesn't need a seventh character, at least in my opinion. It got treated good during Smash 4, for Smash 5 I don't think it needs to get anyone. Though this is just a top 10 female fighters and not a top 10 most likely, so I'm digressing from the point now

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

He was the main antagonist of the first pokemon movie, I know that's doesn't make him evil but is not impossible to imagine mewtwo being evil or at least dangerous for the good guys.

Several years have passed since the first Pokemon movie though, and Mewtwo wasn't an antagonist in the Genesect movie.

Anyway, with Mewtwo being neutral, it'll probably fight against anyone, regardless of if he/she is good or evil.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

What's wrong with Lip? She seems like a good retro choice to me.

With Celica honestly I'm not sure if she'd be in my top 10 either, her hybrid play style with a sword and a tome is already being used by Robin and while she could have stronger attacks at the cost of dealing damage to herself, and also her own exclusive spells (Mila's Turnwheel, Ragnarok, etc.) that wouldn't change how her fundamental moveset would still be very similar to Robin's. Not to mention how she has competition with Lyn and imo Anna as the former won the popularity poll and the latter has a lot to draw from (axes, lances, her own goofy nature, etc.). Plus as a whole Fire Emblem really doesn't need a seventh character, at least in my opinion. It got treated good during Smash 4, for Smash 5 I don't think it needs to get anyone. Though this is just a top 10 female fighters and not a top 10 most likely, so I'm digressing from the point now

Lip's series hasn't been released outside of japan without rebranding it and literally taking her out of the game. This is the same issue that stopped takamaru getting in so I don't see why the same wouldn't apply to lip when she's already considerably less popular than him

If anything Lyn should've got that spot

 

[Troykv]

> Not even a mention of Celica despite no-hopers like Lip and Paula being listed.

Yeah okay SourceGaming.

I guess he didn't wanted to put FE Characters in the Top 10?

Also... Nantendo has already talk about Celica... and he doesn't see her as something other that a Marth/Robin Clone (he gave to her the 15% approval)