Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

I am sure the roster for Smash Switch will be seen by many as initially disappointing once it's leaked, similar to how Brawl and the Smash 4 roster was initially received.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

So it's pretty much going to be some of the following right now: a 3rd party, a popular 1st party character, and a WTF to lighten the mood like they did with WFT

 

[CroonerMike]

I am sure the roster for Smash Switch will be seen by many as initially disappointing once it's leaked, similar to how Brawl and the Smash 4 roster was initially received.

I thought brawl had amazing newcomers. Smash 4's newcommers were so underwhelming to me. That's not to say I wasn't happy with the game, just didn't care for the newcomers we got last time around.

 

[Arcadenik]

Assuming the imgur leak is real and the theme is “heroes vs. villains”, maybe we could have a new adventure mode.

 

[DYED]

Assuming the imgur leak is real and the theme is “heroes vs. villains”, maybe we could have a new adventure mode.

I mean, we could even without the leak being true.
We know so little sky's the limit.

 

[Zeox]

I am sure the roster for Smash Switch will be seen by many as initially disappointing once it's leaked, similar to how Brawl and the Smash 4 roster was initially received.

I always liked the brawl roster, smash 4 on the other hands is still "meh" for me.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

okay im gonna put my predictions here just in case i somehow do manage to get something right

10 new characters, 4 vets and 6 newcomers

Vets: Ice Climbers, Wolf, Squirtle, Ivysaur
Newcomers: Inkling, Ridley, Captain Toad, Chorus Men, Dixie Kong, Chibi Robo

I know it's bold to only predict 10 characters and no 3rd party but the roster is HUGE, and characters aren't an addition; they're a multiplication. And if they're only adding 10 characters then instead of the usual criteria (e.g. "we need a retro rep!!!!", "where's our WTF char???",, "3rd party or bust!") I think Sakurai will try and round off the roster with popular requests (bringing back Wolf, putting in Ridley), putting in missing universes (Inkling, who also was a really popular request, Chorus Men, Chibi-Robo), and putting in the missing vets (Climbers, Squirt/Ivysaur) and all-stars (Toad and Dixie).

Why Squirtle and Ivysaur? Gen 7 doesn't have a clear frontrunner and Pokemon isn't in dire need of a new character... with Greninja, their jump to the 3DS and its generations are represented. Why does Alola need a new character, just because it sold and it's new? Since if that's all it takes to get a character then this roster would look entirely different. With Squirtle and Ivysaur, they're unique veterans that would make sense to bring back if they're truly trying to round off the roster. Per Emily Rogers' leak about the roster being "Ultimate"; how can they claim to have an ultimate roster if they still have messes to clean up? It's like not doing your work in school then asking for extra credit. It doesn't work out.

If I added three more characters to this prediction though I'd put Rayman, Takamaru and Bandana Dee. A fourth would be Isabelle.

is dead...long live...and so is . Also, I don’t think vets can be considered new characters (especially the )

I always liked the brawl roster, smash 4 on the other hands is still "meh" for me.

I thought Smash 4 had a better roster, with only the IC missing being a problem

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

I refuse to believe snake is coming back until I see it. I won't get my hopes up, and therefore will not be disappointed with whatever roster we end up with. Same with Ridley. Its too good to be true!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I am sure the roster for Smash Switch will be seen by many as initially disappointing once it's leaked, similar to how Brawl and the Smash 4 roster was initially received.

It's not easy trying to find newcomers who would actually be viable choices now.

 

[Nekoo]

In all honesty Newcomers that are viable AND hype for the general Nintendo Audience is starting to be a rare thing.
The only thing left are Characters Sakurai avoided-

 

[Pokechu]

is dead...long live...and so is . Also, I don’t think vets can be considered new characters (especially the )


I thought Smash 4 had a better roster, with only the IC missing being a problem

No one expected Doc to make a comeback in 4. Granted, he is a clone, but the same principle applies.

Also, just because Greninja and Squirtle share a type doesn't mean only one can be in. They play completely different anyways and aren't related to each other at all, aside from their typing. It's like saying because Lucario is a fighting type, we couldn't get Mega Mewtwo X in the game at all, because they too are a fighting type. edit: or saying that because we have marth, a swordsman, we can't have any other swordsman on the roster.

While veterans obviously aren't newcomers, personally I'd count veterans as new characters; it's still an addition to the roster so I don't see why they couldn't be considered as such.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Alright, call me overoptimistic, crazy, or whatever, but I'm going with it. K.Rool, Ridley and Banjo are in and scheduled to be revealed at E3. Sakurai definitely knows they are huge deal, plus the ballot and the fact that little Nintendo All Stars are left, and this secretism and mystery.. it just smells like big surprises. This can't be only for Inklings and little more, I refuse to believe that.

K rool isn't a crazy prediction but idk about banjo. I wouldn't exactly call him a nintendo all-star and his series is kinda dead. I guess it depends on how well they would've performed on the ballot but I'm doubtful it's even close to K Rool and other 3rd parties likely scored higher.

 

[Deleted member]

My predictions(and partially hopes) for E3 are two Brawl-esque trailers, one at the beginning of the presentation, revealing two new characters and the return of Ice-Climbers, then, at the end of the presentation, another one with one other newcomer, then, at the end of it, a 3rd party gets revealed.
Not gonna try to predict specific characters because the best I can do is predict FE, Pokemon and Xenoblade newcomers

Gonna go out on a limb and say the E3 demo's roster will be leaked early. How early, I don't know.
Probably 1-2 third party newcomers, and 2-3 first party newcomers

Remember when that happened with Smash 4?

>what if Porky ends up being a clone of bowser jr.

>Alts for other Mother bosses
Oh hell yeah, Gyigas is in

 

[AlphaSSB]

The idea of 'heroes vs villains' being a theme is one I'm quite a fan of. Would make for one hell of an adventure/story mode, that's for sure.

 

[Nekoo]

Okay. Little confession.
I would be against Paper Mario if Doctor Mario stay.
Maybe it's just me liking a well made roster and clean one but I might get triggered to see Three Mario. Even if Paper is different from Mario.
People joked about "Anime swordmans" or "Marth Clone" but in my eyes it would be worst.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

It's not easy trying to find newcomers who would actually be viable choices now.

Especially since they’re either unavailable, minor characters...or Ridley

No one expected Doc to make a comeback in 4. Granted, he is a clone, but the same principle applies.

Also, just because Greninja and Squirtle share a type doesn't mean only one can be in. They play completely different anyways and aren't related to each other at all, aside from their typing. It's like saying because Lucario is a fighting type, we couldn't get Mega Mewtwo X in the game at all, because they too are a fighting type.

While veterans obviously aren't newcomers, personally I'd count veterans as new characters; it's still an addition to the roster so I don't see why they couldn't be considered as such.

The Doc might’ve not been expected to be playable by many, but an alt was (and that would’ve happened if he wasn’t such a pimp)

In a way, it kinda does mean that. Besides Melee, every playable Pokémon in a Smash game has a different type for them (...all different types and fighting styles...having two water types and bringing back Ivy instead of bringing a fresh new grass type probably wouldn’t be the best idea). Besides, we can go for Pokémon characters outside Gen 1 (there’s already 4 of them still alive).

A new addition to a new iteration is different from a new character, and they’re definitely not a major priority compared to any other character from Nintendo.

Okay. Little confession.
I would be against Paper Mario if Doctor Mario stay.
Maybe it's just me liking a well made roster and clean one but I might get triggered to see Three Mario. Even if Paper is different from Mario.
People joked about "Anime swordmans" or "Marth Clone" but in my eyes it would be worst.

There’s 4 playable Marios technically (Red, Yello, Green, and Doctor)

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Okay. Little confession.
I would be against Paper Mario if Doctor Mario stay.
Maybe it's just me liking a well made roster and clean one but I might get triggered to see Three Mario. Even if Paper is different from Mario.
People joked about "Anime swordmans" or "Marth Clone" but in my eyes it would be worst.

He'd play differently though, and besides mario is nintendo's mascot I don't think it matters all that much

 

[Deleted member]

Smashboards please stop crashing my images

Amyways, the Heroes vs. Villains thing just screams wishlist. It's not happening, even if I'm a big fan of the idea and would be 100% in, it's just TOO GOOD to be true.
The characters listed are also, like, Brawl-era wishlists. Porky? Samurai Goroh? K.Rool? They haven't been relevant for years now.

No one expected Doc to make a comeback in 4. Granted, he is a clone, but the same principle applies.

Also, just because Greninja and Squirtle share a type doesn't mean only one can be in. They play completely different anyways and aren't related to each other at all, aside from their typing. It's like saying because Lucario is a fighting type, we couldn't get Mega Mewtwo X in the game at all, because they too are a fighting type. edit: or saying that because we have marth, a swordsman, we can't have any other swordsman on the roster.

While veterans obviously aren't newcomers, personally I'd count veterans as new characters; it's still an addition to the roster so I don't see why they couldn't be considered as such.

While I agree with most of what you said, I have to disagree with that last part.
Veterans aren't new characters because they're not new, it's just as simple as that. You can't try to argue they can be considered new just because they missed one game.

 

[Zeox]

There’s 4 playable Marios technically (Red, Yello, Green, and Doctor)

What about Princess Mario, Space princess Mario, dino Mario, Turtle Dragon Mario and small Turtle dragon Mario in a robot?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The characters listed are also, like, Brawl-era wishlists

Elma, Mimikyu, Medusa and the Chorus Men are Brawl-era wishes?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I am sure the roster for Smash Switch will be seen by many as initially disappointing once it's leaked, similar to how Brawl and the Smash 4 roster was initially received.

The criticism the rosters received after their respective leaks mostly came from the unlockables being underwhelming in comparison to the newcomers who were revealed beforehand, it wasn't because people were unhappy with the overall rosters up until then (which in both cases were very well received, Brawl's probably more so than Smash 4's). At the time of such definitive leaks people also tend to focus more on what isn't there, a newcomer that was revealed months ago can't really make up for the initial disappointment of X character missing, so I think it's fairly natural that things need to settle down a bit before everybody gets a clearer perspective on things. Usually when people actually play the game the whole thing also simmers down again.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The idea of 'heroes vs villains' being a theme is one I'm quite a fan of. Would make for one hell of an adventure/story mode, that's for sure.

The only problem with that concept is the fact that the number of heroic characters greatly outnumber the villains, rivals (or anti-heroes), and neutral characters.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

What about Princess Mario, Space princess Mario, dino Mario, Turtle Dragon Mario and small Turtle dragon Mario in a robot?

And Gorilla+Monkey Mario

 

[Zeox]

The only problem with that concept is the fact that the number of heroic characters greatly outnumber the villains, rivals (or anti-heroes), and neutral characters.

That's why Villains usually have their own armies of minions and strong mini boss minions.

 

[T-Hell]

K rool isn't a crazy prediction but idk about banjo. I wouldn't exactly call him a nintendo all-star and his series is kinda dead. I guess it depends on how well they would've performed on the ballot but I'm doubtful it's even close to K Rool and other 3rd parties likely scored higher.

Well, my reasoning for Banjo was mainly because of your obligatory third party E3 reveal and because of the rumoured Nintensoft alliance for the event. The Nintendo All Stars part was mainly for K.Rool and Ridley (and a some more).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

The only problem with that concept is the fact that the number of heroic characters greatly outnumber the villains, rivals (or anti-heroes), and neutral characters.

That's why Villains usually have their own armies of minions and strong mini boss minions.

Goomba for Smash

 

[Zeox]

Goomba for Smash

Give that goomba a bandana and a spear and we have it.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Give that goomba a bandana and a spear and we have it.

No...give Goomba everything anyone has ever been able to use

 

[Guybrush20X6]

The only problem with that concept is the fact that the number of heroic characters greatly outnumber the villains, rivals (or anti-heroes), and neutral characters.

Yeah, if we cast the net of villain at it's widest then we have

(DK Jr.)(Non-Country and Land series)(Dark Type=Evil Type in Japan)

Even with the "trivia point" entries of Mario and DK, still not enough to match Melee's roster. Heck, remove the separate Koopalings and it's not even 64's

 

[AlphaSSB]

The only problem with that concept is the fact that the number of heroic characters greatly outnumber the villains, rivals (or anti-heroes), and neutral characters.

In terms of playable characters, yes. However, the heroes only have themselves, whereas the villains would have their forces combined.

Bowser and the Koopa Troop, King K. Rool and the Kremling Krew, Ganondorf and his minions, Ridley and his space pirates, King Dedede and his Waddle Dee army, Wolf and his ruffians, Mewtwo and the cloned Pokemon, etc.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

No...give Goomba everything anyone has ever been able to use

I vote Goombella.

 

[Zeox]

Yeah, if we cast the net of villain at it's widest then we have

(DK Jr.)(Non-Country and Land series)(Dark Type=Evil Type in Japan)

Even with the "trivia point" entries of Mario and DK, still not enough to match Melee's roster. Heck, remove the separate Koopalings and it's not even 64's

Oh right, I forget that Bowser Jr. is 8 villains in one.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The only problem with that concept is the fact that the number of heroic characters greatly outnumber the villains, rivals (or anti-heroes), and neutral characters.

I mean that's understandable, games normally have one main villain and maybe a sub-villain but many hero characters, it's only natural there'd be more heroes. If the concept was worked into a story/adventure mode it could work, Almost like sub-space but have all the villains actually work together this time and not team up with the heroes at the end

 

[osby]

To be honest, I have very little doubt this roster will satisfy me, even with cuts. All newcomers except Melee's were great to me.

 

[Pokechu]

Especially since they’re either unavailable, minor characters...or Ridley


The Doc might’ve not been expected to be playable by many, but an alt was (and that would’ve happened if he wasn’t such a pimp)

In a way, it kinda does mean that. Besides Melee, every playable Pokémon in a Smash game has a different type for them (...all different types and fighting styles...having two water types and bringing back Ivy instead of bringing a fresh new grass type probably wouldn’t be the best idea). Besides, we can go for Pokémon characters outside Gen 1 (there’s already 4 of them still alive).

A new addition to a new iteration is different from a new character, and they’re definitely not a major priority compared to any other character from Nintendo.

There’s 4 playable Marios technically (Red, Yello, Green, and Doctor)

Types don't matter at all in Smash, though, aside from when we had PT and each starter had a weakness IIRC. You already mentioned it but Melee had two electric types, Pikachu and Pichu. That disproves the point that we can't have Pokemon of a similar type in Smash. Saying that Squirtle can't be in he's water and Greninja is water is like saying we can't have Rex or Elma or Takamaru or whoever else because they use a sword and we already have over characters who already use swords. Even if they're both Water type, Greninja and Squirtle obviously fight differently, just like how all of our sword wielders fight differently.

And yeah I explained my last part about a veteran being a new character horribly, I meant that they're still work to add in, similar to adding a new character, so that's why I said "10 new characters" instead of "6 newcomers, 4 vets". I wouldn't call Squirt/Ivysaur high priority characters but we aren't Sakurai so neither of our comments on their priority have a basis

While I agree with most of what you said, I have to disagree with that last part.
Veterans aren't new characters because they're not new, it's just as simple as that. You can't try to argue they can be considered new just because they missed one game.

yeah veterans aren't "newcomers" or new characters, but I think that they can almost be considered one in terms of workload, that's what I was trying to say. I just did it horribly

since veterans are still an addition to the roster that has to be balanced just like a newcomer, they have to have their models updated, etc. But I know nothing of game design so I'm probably still wrong on this point

 

[Guybrush20X6]

In "co-inky-dink" news

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

In terms of playable characters, yes. However, the heroes only have themselves, whereas the villains would have their forces combined.

Bowser and the Koopa Troop, King K. Rool and the Kremling Krew, Ganondorf and his minions, Ridley and his space pirates, King Dedede and his Waddle Dee army, Wolf and his ruffians, Mewtwo and the cloned Pokemon, etc.

Dedede is not really a villain, and he can get attacked by his own minions in the games where he's playable. As a result, he feels out of place when paired alongside Bowser and Ganondorf.

Wolf is more of a rival than a true villain to Fox, especially in Star Fox Assault, where he went all anti-hero to help Fox take down the Aparoid invasion.

Mewtwo, it's pretty much in the lines of being neutral now.

 

[Zeox]

Dedede is not really a villain, and he can get attacked by his own minions in the games where he's playable. As a result, he feels out of place when paired alongside Bowser and Ganondorf.

Wolf is more of a rival than a true villain to Fox, especially in Star Fox Assault, where he went all anti-hero to help Fox take down the Aparoid invasion.

Mewtwo, it's pretty much in the lines of being neutral now.

Dedede is more of a greedy idiot, that's why in brawl he was stealing and collecting thropies, he is not a good guy, but he is also not evil.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Dedede is more of a greedy idiot, that's why in brawl he was stealing and collecting thropies, he is not a good guy, but he is also not evil.

Well in Brawl Dedede was likely doing that because he knew about Taboo somehow and had those buttons

 

[DYED]

Dedede is more of a greedy idiot, that's why in brawl he was stealing and collecting thropies, he is not a good guy, but he is also not evil.

UHMMMM
EXCUSE ME????

Dedede wasn't a greedy idiot in Smash, and he wasn't stealing trophies, he wanted to save them.
He took only three: Ness and Peach/Zelda (who've been stolen by Wario, who was going to bring them to Master Hand) and Luigi, who was threatening one of his minions.

Back at his place, he even decided to sacrifice himself by giving his own "resuscitation medallion" to Ness (was it Ness? I think it was Ness).
Dedede in Brawl was literally one of the heroes.

You just triggered me, boy.