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And risking nearly every DB fan getting up in arms about how a spin off character is all the representation they have in Smash (not even the main frigging protagonist), and not to mention the hundred of thousands of fans of other animes and even video game fans in general being upset about DB content whatsoever?
Forget Ridley getting in Smash; that would truly break the internet.
Fire Emblem is already overrepresented and there are several characters for whom that just wouldn't make sense:
Or would likely be character-breaking:
While I understand wanting to see characters interact, there's something about the novelty of a third party cautiously commenting on the subject like they're a wild animal that I will never get over my amusement of. Whoever suggested Doc coaching had it right in that regard and I second that one as the best option unless an unknown newcomer provides a better one or we somehow can actually get Pokedex entries (because I was only half-joking before).
I don't mean to rude but did you read the post? My most significant point was that it would represent multiple franchises, not just FE. It's simply a mechanic, you don't have to listen to a bunch of walking anime tropes from Fates and Awakening talk to each other. Just because potential content is from a certain franchise doesn't mean it should be immediately dismissed, and FE is significantly underrepresented when it comes to miscellaneous stuff. What if I told you the development going into this FE mechanic would satisfy Sakurai's FE urges so he wouldn't put any more effort into FE and its characters won't take up any more precious roster slots for newcomers, would that make it worthy of discussion?
I even mentioned that not all characters should be included, as some are known to not properly speak. Just have other characters talk about the non-speaking characters like other codecs to still include those non-speaking characters, it's a non-issue.
Yup, kinda feel sad knowing that neither Geno or Sora are in. But hey! Don't lose hope! There still a chance- beside who care! The game will be good nonetheless![/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm hype for this game nonetheless and like you say there's still hope.
Squid Sisters seem like a viable option, but they face the heavy obstacle of not having any actual spoken dialogue. The codecs in the past have been properly voiced while Squid Sisters would likely be squid-gibberish. The same argument goes for Biggs from ARMS, other than his voice from the Direct, he speaks gibberish.
Star Fox banter would work but, I think Star Fox should get back on its feet as a franchise before having the main codec-conversations to itself. Snake was a big deal as an inclusion in Brawl and was going strong as a franchise to warrant the resources. The wealth of Kid Icarus content like Palutena's Guidance comes from how easy it was to use Uprising data and resources, plus Uprising was Sakurai's baby. Star Fox codecs could still be warranted but not on the scale of the main codecs, it's simply not justifiable compared to the previous codecs.
I know basically nothing about Xenoblade but anything relating to Shulk and XC1 wouldn't be in this Smash, new Xenoblade stuff would be from XCX or XC2. Still, tell me if there are viable codec-esque mechanics from those games. If there are then they would seem likely.
My own pick for codecs would be Support Conversations from FE. People talk about wanting more substantial unlockables, so why not have 3 tiers of codecs of character interactions and development? The lack of character interaction within this crossover is abysmal and SSE is even more of a disappointment in that regard, it was only mimes and grunts. I believe that support conversations would be the best way to represent multiple series, as it focuses more on the characters interacting rather than something like Snake's support team or Palutena just commenting on the fighters within a match. Of course, it should be limited since having every character support every other character would be a development nightmare (plus some just can't properly communicate with dialogue.) but having certain characters only support other characters would still be faithful to the system as a whole.
1) Would be hard since they don’t speak English...I’d rather them sing in the background or even be alts
2) Star Fox should stick with the secret conversation methods they currently use
3) At best, I see the FE characters interacting with the KI characters more often since it seems like those series have some sort of special connection in Smash 4 (Chrom getting roasted by two goddesses while Pit actually respects him, Palucina, Marth making Pit jealous and Viridi gush). Though I do see them interacting with themselves (especially )
4. That’s all
That doesn't necessarily mean that Nintendo can do whatever it wants with Bayonetta. The BGM tracks in Smash Wii U pretty much explain the whole story.
That doesn't necessarily mean that Nintendo can do whatever it wants with Bayonetta. The BGM tracks in Smash Wii U pretty much explain the whole story.
I ... ? I don't know what you're actually saying here. I know that it would mostly not be FE chars talking to each other, but I think that you know that I know that, so I don't know what this is...
Just because potential content is from a certain franchise doesn't mean it should be immediately dismissed, and FE is significantly underrepresented when it comes to miscellaneous stuff.
I hope you realize how silly this is. FE already has miscellany like Robin's durability system. What's next? Should we be able to pet fighters and blow on their noses in a separate mode (who am I kidding, that's a Final Smash)? Do I get to use my waifus as broodmares to generate offspring with hybrid abilities? I think that we have a good amount of stuff from FE and, even if we didn't, there's still plenty of core stuff like any melee weapon other than a sword, or abilities that aren't counter, or maybe some stages or something. But definitely not an hour of unlockable voice acting.
What if I told you the development going into this FE mechanic would satisfy Sakurai's FE urges so he wouldn't put any more effort into FE and its characters won't take up any more precious roster slots for newcomers, would that make it worthy of discussion?
It's not that I hate FE. Well, I kind of do because the old games were fun and the series has been derailed by waifuism because that sells better, but that's not the point. I'd love to have Lyn in and I wouldn't mind someone like Micaiah. I don't care if FE gets 4 new characters if they're all as well-designed and mechanically distinct as Corrin was.
My main issue is honestly that the support conversations start to get into the worse part of the series. I was going to say they also don't make sense, but actually if you could only get them in a team battle, it would work pretty well... except for those characters for whom is kind of doesn't, and it would be awkward to have someone off-screen supplying the other half of the conversation. Actually, it might be better to just roll with the non-speaking:
A: So, I understand that you're an experienced warrior from another world with a wide arsenal of skills. I can't imagine what it must have been like, tearing through your homeworld only to realize you were fighting for the wrong side after you had already won. I, too, have a dark past that I would rather put behind me, but I don't know what to do about it. Tell me, how did you escape from your nightmare?
B: Poyo!
Fine, you won me over that it's not a horrible idea, though I still prefer both coaching and Pokedex entries.
The only cursing her songs have are the curses that doesn’t allow us to not be obsessed over “Fly Me To The Moon”, “Tomorrow is Mine”, or “Let’s Dance Boys”
Most American workers had the day off today when the marketing materials arrived as it was Sunday, but tomorrow most of the transportation for the E3 marketing stuff should be starting, leading to leaks.
This. Friendly reminder Bayonetta 1 got a PC port just last year, and a Sega-mafe Pachinko Machine some time after Bayonetta 2. Nintendo funded 2 and 3, yes, but she is still a third party character at the end of the day. She is still absolutely property of SEGA. Sonic has had multiple Nintendo exclusive games and has even teamed up with Mr. Video Game Himself several times over. Same with Pac Man. That doesn't make either of them Nintendo characters, it just makes the games they were involved in property of Nintendo.
Legally, Bayonetta as an IP is just as much of a third party as Final Fantasy and Street Fighter.
Corrin uses his dragon form and shapeshifting for over half of his attacks. Corrin is much more dragon than he is sword. Plus, as said before in the quote, he's a completely unique character. Saying otherwise at this point would be ignorant.
"once the FE Fates developers shared their idea with me, I knew I could make Corrin into an interesting fighter. Their unique characteristic in Smash is their incredible reach, attacking from further away than anyone else."
"Even in the midst of a heated melee, Corrin can poke with their lance from afar and pierce opponents. They can transform one part of their body and extend it to hit opponents. Even in the midst of a heated melee, Corrin can poke with their lance from afar and pierce opponents. They can transform one part of their body and extend it to hit opponents."
"It’s always interesting to see the difference in strategies which arise when a unique character comes out. When Corrin enters the fray, you have to pay attention to the distance between the two of you."
Sounds like Sakurai praising any other character, like the above Lucas and Roy.
To be honest it sounds more like these transformations aren’t entirely honest. It’s too... Buzzwordy. Perhaps it’s just that the translator is using terminology that they’re familiar with, perhaps not.
You caught me, two characters who can project long spikes are similar in those specific moves where they do so, but that's not something that Ike does and accordingly most of his moves aren't that similar to Corrin's, though he shares some with Shulk.
I'm getting increasingly confused on what your criteria are for something being meaningfully different. Could you supply a r u d i m e n t a r y definition? Right now it's unclear why you're rejecting counterexamples and the goalpost has an unclear location, but I'm sure that you have something in mind since you approve of transforming as not being fluff.
Something that amounts to something in an overall sense, and something that hasn’t been done before. Together, at the same time.
Having basic characters is fine as long as they fill a role. Toon Link stands out quite nicely even though he’s technically a clone... Individually any single move isn’t very special. But he’s easily the most mobile zoner. He uses projectiles to often close the gap and lead into his close range moveset. It’s a very unique play style.
In the interview Sakurai sites that you have to be aware of your position around Corrin. But like... That’s everybody with a powerful ranged attack. It’s not even terribly different from Shulk. Looking past that and you have a character easily described as Ike on steroids, and it’s not that Ike is garbage either.
Transforming can be used in a unique way. However, Corrin does not do so. For example pulling a lance out of nowhere would achieve much of the same effect, or stabbing with the Monado, or dashing forwards with Electroshock and so on. A unique usage could be filling up a meter and temporarily transforming almost like a Final Smash, even if cut down to something like three or four moves. Or maybe dial it back further and instead it’s the same moveset but stronger. (Not that this would apply to Corrin, but it’s an example of using transforming in a unique way.)
In the same sense, I don’t believe wielding a weapon such as an axe or knife would be unique. Like yeah it’s “different” but if you took away the visual there’s no real difference from a sword or something like Zelda’s close range magic or Sheik’s... Er, magic. Like, you could do slightly different hitboxes and frame data I guess... If the character had something else of merit then sure they would be unique but the axe and knife don’t do anything in particular for them. It’s like my Rabbid example. Sure, nobody else can play volleyball with Ezio but does that actually matter? Does it actually amount to something or does just end up retreading old ground but with extra sprinkles?
Pac-Man's alts were lame. I wanted Ms. Pac-Man, Jr. Pac-Man, Baby Pac-Man, Professor Pac-Man, Super Pac-Man, and Pac-Man (with the hat from Pac-Land) as alts... or at least have Ms. Pac-Man as an alt.
This. Friendly reminder Bayonetta 1 got a PC port just last year, and a Sega-mafe Pachinko Machine some time after Bayonetta 2. Nintendo funded 2 and 3, yes, but she is still a third party character at the end of the day. She is still absolutely property of SEGA. Sonic has had multiple Nintendo exclusive games and has even teamed up with Mr. Video Game Himself several times over. Same with Pac Man. That doesn't make either of them Nintendo characters, it just makes the games they were involved in property of Nintendo.
Legally, Bayonetta as an IP is just as much of a third party as Final Fantasy and Street Fighter.
Reading this continues my wish in Sonic being a Nintendo character or Nintendo/Sega working together to make a platformer starring ...no Smash and Olympics included obviously
Shulk's F Smash consists of two hits, one with the Monado thrust forward, and a second when the Monado powers up. Definitely not a simple forward motion and something that's only possible due to the Monado's shape and properties.
I ... ? I don't know what you're actually saying here. I know that it would mostly not be FE chars talking to each other, but I think that you know that I know that, so I don't know what this is...
I hope you realize how silly this is. FE already has miscellany like Robin's durability system. What's next? Should we be able to pet fighters and blow on their noses in a separate mode (who am I kidding, that's a Final Smash)? Do I get to use my waifus as broodmares to generate offspring with hybrid abilities? I think that we have a good amount of stuff from FE and, even if we didn't, there's still plenty of core stuff like any melee weapon other than a sword, or abilities that aren't counter, or maybe some stages or something. But definitely not an hour of unlockable voice acting.
It's not that I hate FE. Well, I kind of do because the old games were fun and the series has been derailed by waifuism because that sells better, but that's not the point. I'd love to have Lyn in and I wouldn't mind someone like Micaiah. I don't care if FE gets 4 new characters if they're all as well-designed and mechanically distinct as Corrin was.
My main issue is honestly that the support conversations start to get into the worse part of the series. I was going to say they also don't make sense, but actually if you could only get them in a team battle, it would work pretty well... except for those characters for whom is kind of doesn't, and it would be awkward to have someone off-screen supplying the other half of the conversation. Actually, it might be better to just roll with the non-speaking:
A: So, I understand that you're an experienced warrior from another world with a wide arsenal of skills. I can't imagine what it must have been like, tearing through your homeworld only to realize you were fighting for the wrong side after you had already won. I, too, have a dark past that I would rather put behind me, but I don't know what to do about it. Tell me, how did you escape from your nightmare?
B: Poyo!
Fine, you won me over that it's not a horrible idea, though I still prefer both coaching and Pokedex entries.
I guess I didn't explain the concept of miscellaneous content well, that's my bad. What I mean is content that most people don't focus on, like stages, items, etc. Since Melee, FE has had 3 stages and 1 assist trophy since Brawl. Everything else is put into characters. What I'm talking about is if people get so worked up about overrepresentation with characters then why not put that representation into non-character stuff, like codecs.
Support conversations existed since Binding Blade in 2001, way before the waifuism of FatesAwakening. It was a way to develop the characters and interactions and was limited for balance and quality like it should be if it was in Smash, but I do agree Fates and Awakening skewed the system by centering it more on it being your own personal JRPG adventure. I doubt it would go that route though, as you don't have a self-insert avatar for the other characters to praise. Plus, I doubt most of the Smash vets would act like tropy Fates and Awakening characters.
I'm not saying it needs to be the end all be all codec, because it definitely has its flaws. I actually prefer the Doc Louis coaching, that sounds hilarious. (Though Pokedex entries for characters that are decidedly not Pokemon is pretty weird.) I just wish the Smash community would focus a bit more on actually discussing the aspects and mechanics of something new rather than zeroing in on "Is it repping a franchise/game that needs to be repped? Is it relevant? Did it sell consoles and define entire genres? If not, pass."
You know that Simon rumor really has me rooting for him to be in the game. Especially with my moveset I posted about him. Now if only the stamps would be fixed so I could add Simon to my sig.
Also highlighting words is broken. You can't see what you highlighted in the reply box right now.
Well, I did say "rudimentary," so really I'm to blame for this.
Having basic characters is fine as long as they fill a role. Toon Link stands out quite nicely even though he’s technically a clone... Individually any single move isn’t very special. But he’s easily the most mobile zoner. He uses projectiles to often close the gap and lead into his close range moveset. It’s a very unique play style.
You're missing that Corrin isn't especially power-focused. They have a lot more to do with poking than someone like, say, Ike. Marth has an instant death radius, Ike has a general zone you shouldn't be waiting around in for too long or you'll die, and Corrin has a wide radius of instant "hey, that hurt" and occasionally combos.
It’s not even terribly different from Shulk. Looking past that and you have a character easily described as Ike on steroids, and it’s not that Ike is garbage either.
Shulk doesn't have a charging projectile to pressure your opponent to approach. With Corrin, you can make someone come in but then outpoke them or combo off of forward special.
Transforming can be used in a unique way. However, Corrin does not do so. For example pulling a lance out of nowhere would achieve much of the same effect, or stabbing with the Monado, or dashing forwards with Electroshock and so on. A unique usage could be filling up a meter and temporarily transforming almost like a Final Smash, even if cut down to something like three or four moves. Or maybe dial it back further and instead it’s the same moveset but stronger. (Not that this would apply to Corrin, but it’s an example of using transforming in a unique way.)
I agree that those would be different, but we also both seem to agree, based on your comment on Tink, that this is far from the floor for being "different."
In the same sense, I don’t believe wielding a weapon such as an axe or knife would be unique. Like yeah it’s “different” but if you took away the visual there’s no real difference from a sword or something like Zelda’s close range magic or Sheik’s... Er, magic. Like, you could do slightly different hitboxes and frame data I guess...
See, I think you're realizing that fighting games are founded on what are basically numerical hitbox differences, but then you just kind of keep going anyway.
A knife would be different. It has shorter range, it could perhaps be thrown, it could be used for fast combo attacks in a way that doesn't make sense with a sword. An axe could likewise be thrown, and it would work the best because it can stick by its head (see the new GoW), it could make the user have a blindspot at close proximity because it's nearly a polearm, and probably other things that are more obvious to people who know anything about axes.
And I could go on, but it might be more productive to let you independently reconsider the other part. Would someone with just a sword actually be able to use Zelda's up smash? How about her forward, down or up special? Her grab?
It’s like my Rabbid example. Sure, nobody else can play volleyball with Ezio but does that actually matter? Does it actually amount to something or does just end up retreading old ground but with extra sprinkles?
Yes, the character you described earlier had different air mobility and a command grab. It's really not hard to completely change how a character is played and it turns out that taking out core moves and replacing them with new ones does that even if you can point to other moves and say they're the same, because they don't mean the same thing in the context of the new moveset. Even more extreme, Fox and Falco have nearly identical choreography on all of their animations, and yet they are not played the same at all though they clearly have similarities.
Can confirm that no Bayonetta songs have cursing. The reason we didn't see some of them is likely because of copyrights with the singer, not any issues with the lyrics or the songs themselves.
Pac-Man's alts were lame. I wanted Ms. Pac-Man, Jr. Pac-Man, Baby Pac-Man, Professor Pac-Man, Super Pac-Man, and Pac-Man (with the hat from Pac-Land) as alts... or at least have Ms. Pac-Man as an alt.
Plus, there's potential for Namco arcade references like in Namco Community Magazine from Japan. I'm particularly fond of the ideas of a Mappy's police cap, Dig Dug's helmet, Pooka's goggles, Valkyrie's winged helmet, and Gilgamesh's golden armor.
Can confirm that no Bayonetta songs have cursing. The reason we didn't see some of them is likely because of copyrights with the singer, not any issues with the lyrics or the songs themselves.
Same.
Plus, there's potential for Namco arcade references like in Namco Community Magazine from Japan. I'm particularly fond of the ideas of a Mappy's police cap, Dig Dug's helmet, Pooka's goggles, Valkyrie's winged helmet, and Gilgamesh's golden armor.
I saw a post on 4chan of someone pretending to be a youtuber and they were complaining about leaks. At first I thought it was fake but they didn't bother releasing any information so maybe it was a real youtuber.
I wonder if we could get costume characters that have different animations. Ms. Pac-Man obviously couldn't happen unless she had a different idle animation and such, but as long as there aren't any non aesthetic changes, do you think it could happen?
I'd also love to see Ninten as an alt of Ness and Leif as an alt of Marth.
The only cursing her songs have are the curses that doesn’t allow us to not be obsessed over “Fly Me To The Moon”, “Tomorrow is Mine”, or “Let’s Dance Boys”
So, not gonna lie, I'm pretty happy about the imgur rumor being seemingly disproved. While not the worst roster, I would have been fairly disappointed with it for a number of reasons. Having said that the real roster could turn out to be even more disappointing, so who even knows at this point.
Also regarding that Marcus Sellars tweet that apparently surfaced earlier today. I'm almost positive he's full of it, but it made me realize I actually would not be mad about that. Quite a few of the characters that I want are female. And it would be nice if for no other reason than it would increase Captain Syrup's chances for inclusion tremendously. And Captain Syrup in smash would be amazing.
