Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[92MilesPrower]

I've got a Pokédex entry for Sonic:

Shaymin, the Gratitude Pokémon. When the Gracidea flower is in bloom, its pollen allows Shaymin to change into its Sky Forme from its Land Forme. Shaymin also have a tendency to migrate.

Hey... wait a minute...

 

[Pacack]

IF snake comes back, I feel like we'll see the return of the codec. If not, I would assume that it's going to stay as palutena's guidance.

I mean, if I had to predict what was going to happen, I'd bank on that.

But consider:
Star Fox Banter
Squid Sisters
Coaching with Doc Louis
Samus' Visor Scans
Tactical Briefings with Robin (And Chrom, Frederick, Lissa, Lucina)
Olimar's Journal Entries
Shulk's Party Briefings

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I reckon the specials should be non-ARM techniques to begin with. Neutral B as his parry move, Side B as an ARMS-style command dash, Down B as a storable charge (like the kind you get in the game from blocking / etc), and Up B as an uppercut recovery is what I'd go for. If his only short-ranged moves are specials while his standards are all long-range, it kind of tells you that he's all about ranged combat – in the same way that Megaman's jab being lemons conveys his ranged playstyle.

From there, you could definitely fill out the rest of the moves using just the three ARM types. I'm fond of the idea that his air moves would use the boomerang arm, his smashes would use the tribolt, and the rest would use the standard glove. Each of the signature ARM types could also have a different bonus effect when powered up with Down B – like a fiery explosion, wind-powered multi-hits, or electric stun.

We're mostly on the same page here, it's just the three specials.
There are a couple of points.
First, those specials are bad. Ryu has a similar dash in his games, but instead of getting that for Smash, he just runs and dash-cancels his down special. The reason for it is that characters aren't entirely about porting mechanics over to smash when they're cluttered with existing mechanics. In Smash you can actually run, as well as move back and forth in the air. There's nothing particularly special about the dashing in ARMS, it can be brushed aside without much of anything being lost. If we were porting the ninja over, that would be different, because his dash actually is something.
I see no real reason for parrying to be in the game given shielding unless I'm missing something. Continuing to make reference to Ryu, they represented his parry just fine with his shield and used a more unique defensive mechanic for his down special.
The uppercut is generic and overdone, we already have ~4 characters that use that for their up special, 5 counting Mac and 6 with Mii Brawler.
I appreciate the grounded, do-more-with-less attitude you're taking, but I think all it really accomplishes in this case is underserving the character and the game by not letting him do even a tiny fraction of what he can actually do in his own game after you unlock things.

 

[LancerStaff]

I have no idea how you can say this if you've looked at framedata before (or even just the choreography, honestly). There absolutely should be a difference between a long, sweeping hitbox like the beam sword mostly gets you and what Dhalsim's punches would look like if he was in the game. The timing, movement, and proportions of different hitboxes are the core mechanic of fighting games as a genre, and saying there's no difference between a punch and a sword swing is akin to saying that almost every standard attack in the game is identical.

Look at Shulk’s Fsmash. It’s a simple forward motion with a lot of horizontal reach. Sound familiar?

Lingering hitboxes perhaps... Shulk clearly hasn’t heard of them lol.

Like you said, I don’t think a simple moveset based on his defaults has a ton of merit. It’s just a move that exists. It is by some rudimentary definition “unique” but still nothing special.

"So of Nintendo’s upcoming schedule, Fates was chosen, despite Sakurai’s concern of having an abundance of Fire Emblem characters. Sakurai, after having a pep talk with the team, believed they could create a unique fighter."
-Source Gaming

It definitely looks like uniqueness was a factor.

Again, quite literally Corrin is not just a clone. But that doesn’t make them unique.

If they really wanted something unique they shouldn’t if half assed it. Corrin would of been perfect for something that properly involves a dragon form... But instead they’re just another swordsman.

I reckon the specials should be non-ARM techniques to begin with. Neutral B as his parry move, Side B as an ARMS-style command dash, Down B as a storable charge (like the kind you get in the game from blocking / etc), and Up B as an uppercut recovery is what I'd go for. If his only short-ranged moves are specials while his standards are all long-range, it kind of tells you that he's all about ranged combat – in the same way that Megaman's jab being lemons conveys his ranged playstyle.

From there, you could definitely fill out the rest of the moves using just the three ARM types. I'm fond of the idea that his air moves would use the boomerang arm, his smashes would use the tribolt, and the rest would use the standard glove. Each of the signature ARM types could also have a different bonus effect when powered up with Down B – like a fiery explosion, wind-powered multi-hits, or electric stun.

I don’t think the parry has any real merit in Smash when we have a plethora of counters and other things like super armor or Ryu’s focus attack. And, yaknow, perfect shielding...

A dash... What would be the difference from, oh say, Smash’s initial dash? An air dash perhaps but I would just replace his double jump instead. It would give him a more distinct feel. I mean there’d be some amount of upwards movement anyway...

Charging would be nifty, but again, I would make him charge while guarding instead. Taking up a whole move slot seems silly.

 

[Nekoo]

Hypothetical: Is Roy a Smash OC?

The Roy the Smash community knows and loves (for the most part) is very different from the Roy from The Binding Blade. His appearance in Melee was made when Sakurai was only shown concept arts of Roy when BB was still being developed. As Binding Blade released after Melee, not even Sakurai could fully know what Roy's true character was, so Roy's "fiery" personality was mostly made up for Melee.



https://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/13/sakurai-fe25/

Another contributor is Roy's new design for Smash 4 being specifically made for the game. Now Roy in Smash is unique from FE Roy on both characters and design levels.


https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

Even Sakurai considers Roy from Smash as a different entity than Roy from FE. Roy in Smash is much more rooted in Sakurai's assumptions and designs than pulling from Roy's game, The Binding Blade.

Finally, Roy to most exists as Roy from Smash. Nobody played a Japanese Chess simulator an unlocalized FE game from 2001. To many Roy only exists as the Roy from Smash and nothing else. For a long time, people didn't even know Roy's game Binding Blade existed, let alone played it.

If people are wondering about a Smash OC playable character, Roy is one of the best examples (also Miis).

I mostly agree with you BUT.

IS seems to have changed Roy's personality to match his smash Incarnation back when we had DLC map Smash Brethen in Awakening. and Even his design to be Smash 4 one in Cipher/Heroes... Going as far as again putting his Smash Personality in Heroes more than his usual one and embracing the Meme by adding then"Roy's our boy" line to him.

It's like themselves know that Roy is where he is thanks to smash.

Us Sora fam will join you to T_T

Yup, kinda feel sad knowing that neither Geno or Sora are in. But hey! Don't lose hope! There still a chance- beside who care! The game will be good nonetheless!

 

[Troykv]

Hypothetical: Is Roy a Smash OC?

The Roy the Smash community knows and loves (for the most part) is very different from the Roy from The Binding Blade. His appearance in Melee was made when Sakurai was only shown concept arts of Roy when BB was still being developed. As Binding Blade released after Melee, not even Sakurai could fully know what Roy's true character was, so Roy's "fiery" personality was mostly made up for Melee.



https://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/13/sakurai-fe25/

Another contributor is Roy's new design for Smash 4 being specifically made for the game. Now Roy in Smash is unique from FE Roy on both characters and design levels.


https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

Even Sakurai considers Roy from Smash as a different entity than Roy from FE. Roy in Smash is much more rooted in Sakurai's assumptions and designs than pulling from Roy's game, The Binding Blade.

Finally, Roy to most exists as Roy from Smash. Nobody played a Japanese Chess simulator an unlocalized FE game from 2001. To many Roy only exists as the Roy from Smash and nothing else. For a long time, people didn't even know Roy's game Binding Blade existed, let alone played it.

If people are wondering about a Smash OC playable character, Roy is one of the best examples (also Miis).

Sometimes I think both IS and Sakurai are trying to blend the two different outcomes that the character created from their original drafts...

Smash 4!Roy looks more calm and wholesome (specially notable when he was revealed and in his victory poses); and Heroes!Roy has more of this "fiery spirit" when it's in battle.

 

[Pacack]

I wouldn't be so fast to say Sora's completely out of the picture. Again, he's technically owned by Disney.

In all likelihood, it was Geno+Mallow that were being discussed.

 

[Jetsurge]

Nintendo doesn't own Bayonetta any more than any other third party.

Don't mistake individual games for franchise rights.

She's 100% owned by Sega.

But Nintendo currently is the ownly one willing to fund and publish her games.

 

[SmashChu]

Here is my write up on Vereben. I guess you could call this a rough draft since there was a lot to go through and I didn't get everything. I'll update my theorycraft blog with the rest and include the spicy comments from Reddit (the threads are worth a read)

I'm going to go through the rumors I can find that he's made on Reddit. He's become somewhat infamous on Reddit and has garnered a reputation.

First Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/7c9n8i/leakileaks/
Second Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/7niilu/leakileaks_part_ii_a_statement_of_previous_ones/?sort=new

Street Fighter V

Claimed that Sakura, Sagat, Cody and Sodom were going to be in the Season 3 update and two other characters (which he wasn't sure of, stating they were either from Final Fight or a Shadowloo doll). He also stated Viper, Necro, Oro and Q would be free characters. The only characters he was correct on were Sakura, Sagat and Cody. He also stated there would be a color edit mode but it was never added into the game.

The main accusation against him is that he only copied another leaker “Flowtron” who had correctly leaked Season 2's roster. Many of the characters he mentioned were previously mentioned by Flowtron. Flowtron specifically stated that Sagat and Sakura were locks for Season 3. While he wasn't as sure about the Season 3 roster (due to losing his contact), he was right about the characters added, including one called “President” which was referenced by Flowtron. Vereben hasn't made any more rumors about SFV.


Flowtron:https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2017...tential-characters-street-fighter-5-season-3/

Soul Caliber

Of any game, Vereben has been the most active with Soul Caliber to the point where he has gotten a reputation for himself within the community. This is also the game that got him famous, so to speak.

Vereben originally said that SC6 did exist and it was going to be shown at PSX. He wasn't sure about a Xbone One version but did state there would be a Switch version with Link as a playable character. In the end, the game did exist but it was shown off at the Game Awards, not PSX. Moreover, there is no Switch version (though there is an Xbox One version). It was later confirmed that there was no Switch version in development http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...or_switch_but_that_might_change_in_the_future


One thing he has been criticized for is the fact that he didn't know of Geralt despite the fact other leaks had him and that the character was teased for a while. Also, while he was correct that there was a duel-wielding character, he described him as Kilik's rival which was not noted when the character was revealed and never gave a name (suggesting it was a lucky guess).

He also made claims about how Namco Bandai is listening to Real players and listening to specific communities. You can see the whole thing here (https://twitter.com/Flying_Wonkey/status/968325372109623298). The Brand and Community Manager for Tekken stated he was making things up: Post:https://i.imgur.com/C2M5Q6z.png


Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/SoulCalibu...an_on_vergeban_the_leaker_unclear_whether_he/

Jojo Bizzard Adventure

This one is hilarious. Das makes a post saying how French Bread is making a Jojo Bizzar Adventure game. In the same thread, he says how he was dupped by a guy who procedures to give him the REAL info. He didn't take the bait on Viewtiful Joe 3.


https://www.reddit.com/r/salty/comments/83tfly/rumor_jojos_bizarre_adventure_fighting_game_in/
Dragon Ball Fighter Z

He claimed that Goku Black was held back for DLC but instead he is in the base game. There is also an accusation that he edited his post to include characters from another leak. See below

Marvel vs Capcom Infinite

He made a list of characters that were going to be “Season 2,” including Xmen characters, but this has never happened.

Devil May Cry 5

He stated the game would have been shown at PSX (similar to SC6), but it wasn't shown there in the end. He later claimed it was pushed back to E3 to make it more exciting.

Nintendo

Almost all the information about Nintendo has been unproven or incorrect. The biggest two was that Metroid Prime 4 was going to be in the January Direct, Pokemon Gen 8 was coming for 2018, Mother 3 was happening (lol) and The World Ends With You (TWEWY) 2 was coming. The only thing from his original leak he sort of got right was in regards to the Virtual Console where he states “The Switch's Virtual Console will not be like how it currently is known to be like. There is some kind of a subscription service of sorts in the works.” From what hes saying, its implying that the Virtual Console will exist in some form when Nintendo has never referred to it as the Virtual Console.

He made numerous other statements as well in regards to Nintendo games coming out in his second “leak.” but it was sort of a shot gun approach, listing off numerous titles. Many of these titles have been dis-confirmed (Call of Duty) or have not come true. He stated Dragon Quest 11 will be in the January Direct but it wasn't.

Star Fox Grand Prix


I wont go into this much since, according to Vereben, this one came first from Liam Robertson (also not a great source of information, but a story for another day). The issue with this rumor is the logo, which Vereben confirmed is “going around” and likely the basis for the rumor (see:https://www.reddit.com/r/starfox/co...ady_out_of_its_hole_thanks/dyt6x46/?context=3) The logo itself is based off Star Fox Guard's logo. However, Star Fox does not have a set logo like other series do. However, the last three major games used green in their logo and had a bold border. If you compare Guard and Grand Prix's logo, you can tell the latter was based on the former. There was also a user on Nintendo Insider who noted that he received the image 2 weeks prior. Although the upload date is the same as the article, the fact that he was able to upload a clean image and was the first comment time wise suggest hes telling the truth.

Star Fox Grand Prix logo: https://imgur.com/aIF2Etn
Nintendo Insider report: https://www.nintendo-insider.com/ru...g-on-star-fox-grand-prix-for-nintendo-switch/
Star Fox Guard Logo: https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.impulsegamer.com%2Farticles%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F04%2FWiiU_StarFoxGuard_Logo.jpg&f=1


It should be noted that Liam has been wrong a lot in the past, even in regards to Star Fox Zero, originally claiming the game would have been delayed further. Vereben has also been dupped in the past. Most likely, they received the logo and some info and believed it was real. Of course, E3 will confirm or deny this.

Edititing and Changing Leaks

One thing Vereben is notorious for is editing and changing his leaks. In one Reddit thread, a user notes how he editted a leak copying someone else who had legitimate information. Here is the thread in question: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comments/7j0xg3/so_how_come_leakileaks_is_getting_edited/

When one user asks why he got it so wrong, another user (now deleted) responded with the following

SF5 source was one of the later additions copying flowtron leak, after another source he posted got it wrong and gave us xkira **** like color edit mode and new CAs.

SC6 leak has quadrupled in size since the archive link. It was a highly rumoured game, couldn't confirm xbone, no switch in sight and he guessed it could be at one of two events.

Guy has an NRS source, he should stick to what he knows.


In regards to Pokemon, he originally stated that Generation 8 would happen in 2018 which isn't true. He later stated that a game based on Kanto will come out, but this was days after rumors were circulating about Lets Go Pikachu/Eevee, and the original rumor was made in April. He made his response in late May around when everyone else was talking about it.
Reddit Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Kappa/comm...statement_of_previous_ones/dyxy815/?context=1

Conclusion

At best, Vereben is someone who doesn't verify what he gets. At worst, he's someone that is riding the coattails of one good leak to gauner attention. I'll leave that determination to the reader. What I can say is he can not be trusted. There is too much wrong with what he has posted and there is too much shady business (like editing post) to trust what he says. Even if he has inside info, his tracker records indicates that it not very reliable.

One thing I do think he's doing is “jumping communities.” He is hated in the Soul Caliber, Street Fighter and DBZ communities. Most of them respond with “**** you” and down vote his comments. On the contrary, a lot of Nintendo communities respond to him more openly and trusting. My gut tells me he may be moving on as a sort of traveling snake oil salesmen, but I'm cynical in general. While I will admit he has some things right, he has gotten too much wrong to be trustworthy. I'll leave everyone with this comment.

To be fair, he may have had a bunch of legitimate leaks once for a bunch of games. Specifically for Soul Calibur, the fact the game existed, certain (obvious) roster characters returning, and the inclusion of a new, twinblade wielding character (Grøh).

But after these initial leaks the well dried up, his source was fired or cut off contact. Outside of those few notes, he's been wrong about basically everything else Soul Calibur related. His most recent claims were the most outlandish, implying the community could force Project Soul to make changes if they spoke loud enough, in some crude attempt to rally the fans to some kind of personal army.

Its to the point now where his accurate "leaks" are smaller than his inaccurate claims.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SoulCalibur/comments/84mkxk/its_official_vergeben_knows_nothing/

 

[Autumn ♫]

Again, quite literally Corrin is not just a clone. But that doesn’t make them unique.

If they really wanted something unique they shouldn’t if half ***** it. Corrin would of been perfect for something that properly involves a dragon form... But instead they’re just another swordsman.

Corrin uses his dragon form and shapeshifting for over half of his attacks. Corrin is much more dragon than he is sword. Plus, as said before in the quote, he's a completely unique character. Saying otherwise at this point would be ignorant.

 

[Jetsurge]

Corrin uses his dragon form and shapeshifting for over half of his attacks. Corrin is much more dragon than he is sword. Plus, as said before in the quote, he's a completely unique character. Saying otherwise at this point would be ignorant.

It was a mistake to give Corrin a counter

 

[Sonic Poke]

What did I miss? Why are people considering Square Enix characters disconfirmed?
I looked a couple of pages back but I cannot find it.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sakurai never said such a thing. That is why this is up for debate.

"once the FE Fates developers shared their idea with me, I knew I could make Corrin into an interesting fighter. Their unique characteristic in Smash is their incredible reach, attacking from further away than anyone else."

"Even in the midst of a heated melee, Corrin can poke with their lance from afar and pierce opponents. They can transform one part of their body and extend it to hit opponents. Even in the midst of a heated melee, Corrin can poke with their lance from afar and pierce opponents. They can transform one part of their body and extend it to hit opponents."

"It’s always interesting to see the difference in strategies which arise when a unique character comes out. When Corrin enters the fray, you have to pay attention to the distance between the two of you."

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/
Have you not read this article?

 

[Autumn ♫]

It was a mistake to give Corrin a counter

I don't necessarily agree or disagree, but okay.

To be honest though, Corrin's counter is definitely my favorite in the game. The animation is really fun to pull off.

 

[Pacack]

But Nintendo currently is the ownly one willing to fund and publish her games.

More than that, even. Now that Nintendo has saved her franchise, it's likely to stay Nintendo exclusive because of the team's respect and appreciation for Nintendo.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Where did this translator say this however?

 

[IronWarrior94]

SmashChu Interesting analysis, Vergeben sounds more iffy than I thought now. At this point concerning Ridley, I guess our only hope is to...well, hope, the Resetera admins teasing Ridley even before the direct that revealed Smash for Switch, are credible.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I see that the updates to this site are done...and my boyis highlighted...SATISFIED

 

[Pakky]

SmashChu Interesting analysis, Vergeben sounds more iffy than I thought now. At this point concerning Ridley, I guess our only hope is to...well, hope, the Resetera admins teasing Ridley even before the direct that revealed Smash for Switch, are credible.

So are we in the pooper or no?

 

[Jetsurge]

I see that the updates to this site are done...and my boyis highlighted...SATISFIED

If King K. Rool gets in he needs to be highlighted at the top

 

[Captain Fun]

Also worth noting that Vergeben was not the first to mention Simon Belmont. That could be another case of piggybacking.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Look at Shulk’s Fsmash. It’s a simple forward motion with a lot of horizontal reach. Sound familiar?

Lingering hitboxes perhaps... Shulk clearly hasn’t heard of them lol.

Like you said, I don’t think a simple moveset based on his defaults has a ton of merit. It’s just a move that exists. It is by some rudimentary definition “unique” but still nothing special.

You caught me, two characters who can project long spikes are similar in those specific moves where they do so, but that's not something that Ike does and accordingly most of his moves aren't that similar to Corrin's, though he shares some with Shulk.
I'm getting increasingly confused on what your criteria are for something being meaningfully different. Could you supply a r u d i m e n t a r y definition? Right now it's unclear why you're rejecting counterexamples and the goalpost has an unclear location, but I'm sure that you have something in mind since you approve of transforming as not being fluff.

 

[Nekoo]

What did I miss? Why are people considering Square Enix characters disconfirmed?
I looked a couple of pages back but I cannot find it.

Where did this translator say this however?

ResetEra. A week ago a S-E translator, when the Rumor appeared- people didn't cared about it, it just pop-up once again now
He said "It's fake because there characterS I know won't be in smash"
And by making the link with that, you can guess Geno/Mallow/ (and to an extent Sora. Depends on if Disney is the one who have to manage stuff for smash) Wouldn't be in.

 

[Roberk]

Codecs for Smash Switch:

Squid Sisters seem like a viable option, but they face the heavy obstacle of not having any actual spoken dialogue. The codecs in the past have been properly voiced while Squid Sisters would likely be squid-gibberish. The same argument goes for Biggs from ARMS, other than his voice from the Direct, he speaks gibberish.

Star Fox banter would work but, I think Star Fox should get back on its feet as a franchise before having the main codec-conversations to itself. Snake was a big deal as an inclusion in Brawl and was going strong as a franchise to warrant the resources. The wealth of Kid Icarus content like Palutena's Guidance comes from how easy it was to use Uprising data and resources, plus Uprising was Sakurai's baby. Star Fox codecs could still be warranted but not on the scale of the main codecs, it's simply not justifiable compared to the previous codecs.

I know basically nothing about Xenoblade but anything relating to Shulk and XC1 wouldn't be in this Smash, new Xenoblade stuff would be from XCX or XC2. Still, tell me if there are viable codec-esque mechanics from those games. If there are then they would seem likely.

My own pick for codecs would be Support Conversations from FE. People talk about wanting more substantial unlockables, so why not have 3 tiers of codecs of character interactions and development? The lack of character interaction within this crossover is abysmal and SSE is even more of a disappointment in that regard, it was only mimes and grunts. I believe that support conversations would be the best way to represent multiple series, as it focuses more on the characters interacting rather than something like Snake's support team or Palutena just commenting on the fighters within a match. Of course, it should be limited since having every character support every other character would be a development nightmare (plus some just can't properly communicate with dialogue.) but having certain characters only support other characters would still be faithful to the system as a whole.

Any other potential codecs?

 

[P.Kat]

While everyone else is arguing about whether or not former US President Dwight D. Eisenhower, American Dragon Jake Long, and Plastic Man are the same character, and if some guy that knows Japanese is reliable source, I'm gonna complete the obvious reference here.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

That aside, I'm gonna bring up something we discussed earlier on Discord: Codecs/Palutena's Guidance. What new kinds of these do you all want in Smash 5? I really want Doc Louis giving Little Mac tips on the other characters, it was definitely a missed opportunity in Wii U.

Here's an example of one about Kirby: Be careful, son! This pink guy might be small and squishy, but he can fly, and he sure can pack a punch! Watch out for that hammer of his, and make sure he stays on the ground! He also seems awfully hungry, just make sure he stays away from me and my chocolate bars, hahaha!

Star Fox can have one and call it Star Fox Tactics a more advanced version of Fox's conversations on the Lylat stage.

 

[Arcadenik]

It was a mistake to give Corrin a counter

Subjective opinion but okay.

I am at the point where I don't care if a character has a counter move as long as it makes sense to that character. But I must say, the only counter that I find nonsensical is Peach's Toad move but it's water under the bridge now (at least it can KO opponents sometimes).

 

[Jetsurge]

ResetEra. A week ago a S-E translator, when the Rumor appeared- people didn't cared about it, it just pop-up once again now
He said "It's fake because there characterS I know won't be in smash"
And by making the link with that, you can guess Geno/Mallow/ (and to an extent Sora. Depends on if Disney is the one who have to manage stuff for smash) Wouldn't be in.

But I doubt I Square translator would know anything. Sakurai just need to ask Square for permission to use their characters and they he and his team do the rest. Square have barely anything to do with the game development, they wouldn't know the roster.

 

[Munomario777]

To go into more detail on the moves, since I skimmed over them before and didn't go into what I think would make them worthwhile:

Neutral B, the parry, would be more of a short-ranged hitbox than a defensive move, using the shape of the radiating circle as the hitbox. It'd act kind of like a Melee Fox shine, with low lag and knockback that sends the foe kind of tumbling across the ground. You could use it to chain into your ranged punches with good timing, but nothing too powerful; Springman doesn't have Fox's up smash or anything to kill confirm off of his pseudo-shine. This would be a powerful melee option, but also his *only* melee option, so it's more of a last resort and can be predictable. Your goal is typically to stay at a distance, and one thing I'm aiming for with these specials is complementing that playstyle with non-ranged attacks to highlight the ranged attacks.

Side B, the dash, would be a useful mobility option, giving him much-needed landing mixups since he won't have anything like a sex kick to land with. It'd also tie into his ranged gameplay, acting as a quick way to reposition himself at optimal range for his punches to connect, almost like a super perfect-pivot. Unlike a dash, it'd allow him to use all of his grounded moves afterward without a laggy skidding animation. Making it his jump is another option, but that sounds kinda strange imo since jumps typically go upward. Sounds like it'd throw a lot of new players off, if nothing else, not to mention how it'd mess with his recovery / etc.

Down B, the charge, is similar to Limit Break, so there's definitely a precedent for it. Having it charge while blocking is a neat idea, though I wonder if that could be a bit much, since there'd be no window to reliably punish him for using it. The comeback potential from that could be pretty fun, though! It sounds really fun to come back from being victim to a blockstring with a newly-charged super punch. In any event, I think a fun little Springman flair to add would be speeding up the charge as his damage taken grows. Kinda like how in the source game, his ARMS gain a perma-charge when his health falls below a quarter.

Up B is pretty much just the obligatory recovery move. Springman's a character based on ranged punching, so a ranged uppercut sounds pretty fitting; no need to get super elaborate here I don't think. I imagine it acting as a fiery multi-hit, kind of like Roy's. Uniquely, it could have an increased ledge grab range, due to his outstretched arm. It'd also act as an explosive combo finisher, useful to chain or 50-50 off of a ranged punch that lands in the neutral. It causes helpless, so the risk balances it out.

It'd not be strictly out-of-character to have him use different ARMS, but I think it's ideal to stick to what really defines Springman, personally. If he were really that lacking on his own, I'd agree more with having him use different characters' stuff.

Spoiler: concept sketch, by the by

 

[IronWarrior94]

So are we in the pooper or no?

I don't think so, or I hope not. Apparently the staff at Resetera were making Ridley teases/jokes before that Direct confirmed a new Smash game was coming. On Gamefaqs, someone told me that one member was pretty adamant with the teasing, one of which involved him posting a pic of Ridley and saying something like "help me shrink this because it's too damn big!".
Shortly after the Smash for Switch reveal, that same member went back to his old post and said "we'll deal with this again at a later time"

Honestly, all we need is proof/confirmation that the folks at that site have sources of their own, and weren't just messing around.

 

[CannonStreak]

While talking about codecs, how about for the Legend of Zelda, Link, Zelda and other Zelda characters get the three Golden Goddesses (Din, Nayru and Farore), or the Champions from Breath of the Wild or something like that informing each character about the fighter the Zelda character is up against? Thoughts?

 

[Roberk]

It was a mistake to give Corrin a counter

How??? How is a character who comes from a game focusing on countering enemies when they attack having a counter in Smash a mistake?

 

[Nekoo]

But I doubt I Square translator would know anything. Sakurai just need to ask Square for permission to use their characters and they he and his team do the rest. Square have barely anything to do with the game development, they wouldn't know the roster.

But he apparently knew about Cloud being a DLC beforehand.

 

[Jetsurge]

How??? How is a character who comes from a game focusing on countering enemies when they attack having a counter in Smash a mistake?

Too many characters have one especially with 5/6 FE characters having it. People would complain less about Corrin if he didn't have a counter.

But he apparently knew about Cloud being a DLC beforehand.

Have we got any proof of him saying Cloud was in before his reveal?

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Codecs for Smash Switch:

My own pick for codecs would be Support Conversations from FE. People talk about wanting more substantial unlockables, so why not have 3 tiers of codecs of character interactions and development? The lack of character interaction within this crossover is abysmal and SSE is even more of a disappointment in that regard, it was only mimes and grunts. I believe that support conversations would be the best way to represent multiple series, as it focuses more on the characters interacting rather than something like Snake's support team or Palutena just commenting on the fighters within a match. Of course, it should be limited since having every character support every other character would be a development nightmare (plus some just can't properly communicate with dialogue.) but having certain characters only support other characters would still be faithful to the system as a whole.

Any other potential codecs?

Fire Emblem is already overrepresented and there are several characters for whom that just wouldn't make sense:

Or would likely be character-breaking:
While I understand wanting to see characters interact, there's something about the novelty of a third party cautiously commenting on the subject like they're a wild animal that I will never get over my amusement of. Whoever suggested Doc coaching had it right in that regard and I second that one as the best option unless an unknown newcomer provides a better one or we somehow can actually get Pokedex entries (because I was only half-joking before).

 

[Banjodorf]

It was a mistake to give Corrin a counter

To be honest, Corrin's counter is easily my favorite in the game after Shulk's. I'd be perfectly fine if they took most Counters out of the game except for those two.

 

[Roberk]

While talking about codecs, how about for the Legend of Zelda, Link, Zelda and other Zelda characters get the three Golden Goddesses (Din, Nayru and Farore), or the Champions from Breath of the Wild or something like that informing each character about the fighter the Zelda character is up against? Thoughts?

I'm all for more Zelda content, but have the 3 goddesses actually spoken? Or are they just a part of lore/plot points?

The champions were a big disappointment for me when playing BOTW. They were hyped up to be this huge developed Zelda cast and story and... were dead for 100 years at the start of the game and only appear in a few minutes of cutscenes. I could see Sakurai putting a lot of BOTW in Smash Switch, but Champion codecs just don't seem as viable compared to other potential codecs.

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm all for more Zelda content, but have the 3 goddesses actually spoken? Or are they just a part of lore/plot points?

The champions were a big disappointment for me when playing BOTW. They were hyped up to be this huge developed Zelda cast and story and... were dead for 100 years at the start of the game and only appear in a few minutes of cutscenes. I could see Sakurai putting a lot of BOTW in Smash Switch, but Champion codecs just don't seem as viable compared to other potential codecs.

Actually, for the goddesses, they'd be more like Mr. Resetti and be more text based, if that is okay.

 

[?????????????]

I'VE GOT IT!

If Dragon Ball FighterZ comes to Nintendo Switch, they can add Android 21 to Smash Bros. since she originated in a video game.

BOOM! LOOPHOLE!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But Nintendo currently is the ownly one willing to fund and publish her games.

But she isn't OWNED by Nintendo.

Nor do they have the rights to do anything they want with her.

She's a Sega character.

 

[Jetsurge]

But she isn't OWNED by Nintendo.

Nor do they have the rights to do anything they want with her.

She's a Sega character.

But Nintendo are publishing Bayo 3 and published Bayo 2 and they want to include her in Smash to advertise so they can make money.