Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If Palutena returns with Pit could we also see the return of the Palutena's guidance skits? Especially for whoever's going to be the newcomers?
If not, what could you imagine the new in-universe character bios be?

Assuming that the Smash 3DS / Wii U DLC characters are in the base game, hopefully we'll get more than just the "intruder from another dimension" speech.

 

[Polan]

Skully is a weapon available to Springman, and is basically a large spike which injects poison. Not remotely a glove.

At least stabbing people with a Skully and the one-two of the Locjaw aren’t moves almost totally made up for Smash.

ah yes, because the first thing i think of when i see springman is poison injecting spikes. and it's hilarious how you think giving springman another fighter's arms instead of building his moveset around his own is okay but corrin's made up pin move is completely unacceptable.

and since i don't want another infraction lets end it here.

 

[Nekoo]

Last thought: I wonder if Roy and Roy had their own separate sessions or if 's one was a take from the start and 's one was a take from the end of the day.



As long as the announcer is hammy and pronounces at least one character questionably, I'm cool with it personally.

My theory is that they do each name more than once with different inflections in their tone and Sakurai/Whoever goes with the one they think works the best. So they probably had more than one take of Xander saying "Roy" in there archives.

Just a guess, anyway.

Well, I can at least say that for the French announcer it probably was another take made JUST for the DLC, since KoopaRoy is said "Roy" normally.
But Roy is pronouced "Reui" which would be the old french pronunciation for "Roi" meaning "King"
Which would make sense for Roy's character

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Please don't double post. Edit your messages instead.

Sorry. Still re-learning the new boards.

 

[Fenriraga]

Well, I can at least say that for the French announcer it probably was another take made JUST for the DLC, since KoopaRoy is said "Roy" normally.
But Roy is pronouced "Reui" which would be the old french pronunciation for "Roi" meaning "King"
Which would make sense for Roy's character

It would make sense that the smaller-priority language announcers might not do it all in their first take, yeah. That, or they did just have them say Roy specifically that way along with the other pronounciation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sorry. Still re-learning the new boards.

My guess is trying to edit the posts and quote are coming issues. Due to that, I'll just merge posts for now as if people are following the rules.

It won't take too long for a lot errors and such to be fixed. If anything, might help to edit your post if you accidentally double to ask for a merge or report your own post. Either, or. That way it's clear it was an error.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sorry. Still re-learning the new boards.

If it helps, the forums now save your reply drafts. So that way, it'll be less troublesome to get more than one quote onto a single post.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Where did this SE translator come from all of a sudden?

And wouldn't he be breaching a contract to even say anything about any Square content in Smash at all?

 

[SchAlternate]

If it helps, the forums now save your reply drafts. So that way, it'll be less troublesome to get more than one quote onto a single post.

Or just click the "+Quote" button to select all the posts you want to quote, and add them to your reply.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

ah yes, because the first thing i think of when i see springman is poison injecting spikes. and it's hilarious how you think giving springman another fighter's arms instead of building his moveset around his own is okay but corrin's made up pin move is completely unacceptable.

With no bearing at all on the Ikorrin debate, I see no reason why Springman can't use any of the arms in the game. He shouldn't use all of them, and he should focus on the default ones in his loadout, but why would he be forbidden from using things that he can in his own game?
The bird specifically seems like it might be his best option for a recovery. It could act as a long-range melee attack that can be free-aimed but sticks to surfaces (like Corrin's side special, ironically (though actually more like zairs in Melee)). It would be a good way to give him a way to get back on stage that's only a very gentle extrapolation from his own game.
Ideally, I'd give him a charging ability for one of his specials and then have each other special be an arm that isn't in his default loadout, but keep all his standard moves with the default set. That might not be necessary, but having the three normal ones and then exactly also the bird skull seems weird.

 

[Nekoo]

Where did this SE translator come from all of a sudden?

And wouldn't he be breaching a contract to even say anything about any Square content in Smash at all?

That's probably why he didn't directly said which character he's unconfirming. He could be unconfirming Elma, like Ridley, Like Sora or Geno in that leak.
But obviously, we can all guess he mean Sora or/and Geno+Mallow.

But like someone said, he apparently knew about Cloud beforehand, but never said anything about it. So I don't know why he would suddenly talk now instead of just letting the rumor pass even if it's a false one-

Beside, the fact that he know they're aren't here, mean that there is some SE content somehow, meaning at least Cloud is back, which would be breaking NDA indirectly.

Blergh, anyway,only 9 day, I can't wait- But I would be truly sad for Geno if he's not in.


Poor guy get always considered, he's basically the second Ridley now.

 

[Shadowwolflink]

Goldeneye reemerging on a Nintendo platform would be absolutely massive. It would be huge, hype-wise. Especially if it was a redux. Dare I say it, more massive than beloved classic charters like K.Rool, Banjo, etc making it into Smash. There has been rumours and talks on and off for the best part of 15 years and is one of the biggest what ifs in the industry.

The problem is that people think they want Goldeneye, but they don't want it modernized (look at that awful remake they did) and once you go back and play it it just hasn't aged well. The only thing it really has going for it anymore are the maps and level design, the controls are pretty bad.

 

[Munomario777]

With no bearing at all on the Ikorrin debate, I see no reason why Springman can't use any of the arms in the game. He shouldn't use all of them, and he should focus on the default ones in his loadout, but why would he be forbidden from using things that he can in his own game?
The bird specifically seems like it might be his best option for a recovery. It could act as a long-range melee attack that can be free-aimed but sticks to surfaces (like Corrin's side special, ironically (though actually more like zairs in Melee)). It would be a good way to give him a way to get back on stage that's only a very gentle extrapolation from his own game.
Ideally, I'd give him a charging ability for one of his specials and then have each other special be an arm that isn't in his default loadout, but keep all his standard moves with the default set. That might not be necessary, but having the three normal ones and then exactly also the bird skull seems weird.

I reckon he should stick with his signature ARMS. Those three plus the whole ranged gimmick are more than enough to make a standout fighter, and anything more could get cluttered.

 

[Roberk]

Save the other arms for other potential ARMS characters.

Or, if custom moves return, some extra arms as customs would work nicely.

 

[LancerStaff]

ah yes, because the first thing i think of when i see springman is poison injecting spikes. and it's hilarious how you think giving springman another fighter's arms instead of building his moveset around his own is okay but corrin's made up pin move is completely unacceptable.

and since i don't want another infraction lets end it here.

Because the first thing I think of with Mario is a squirt gun.

Because the first thing I think of with Samus/Pit is going in and ignoring their ranged game.

Because the first thing I think of with Pikachu is Skull Bash, a move he can’t even learn anymore.

Because the first thing I think of with Bowser Jr. is the clown car.

Using a non default arm on Springman (which he can indeed use) is nothing compared to the liberties they’ve taken with other characters. Springman’s defaults are boring as **** anyway. Sakurai’s going to go for all the unique ones.

I never said Springman with Corrin’s moveset was magically acceptable, it’s an example of how Corrin’s moveset isn’t unique, special or remotely something only he could do.

I reckon he should stick with his signature ARMS. Those three plus the whole ranged gimmick are more than enough to make a standout fighter, and anything more could get cluttered.

Firmly disagree. In the end, there’s no difference between a long punch and a laser sword and what have you.

Having a Guardian, a Locjaw, a Bird and so on better represents ARMS as a whole then three generic attacks. Which really wouldn’t be all that different within Smash, mind you...

Save the other arms for other potential ARMS characters.

Or, if custom moves return, some extra arms as customs would work nicely.

Sakurai’s not the type of person to save a good idea for later.

I don’t see much merit in having more than two or three ARMS characters anyway, and by the time we get to that point there’ll be new material to draw from.

 

[Smartz]

I want Jesus to be in smash 5.

 

[Nebunera]

Who else is praying for a good online...especially since we are paying for it

 

[CannonStreak]

Who else is praying for a good online...especially since we are paying for it

You can say that I am. I don't want to waste my money on something bad.

 

[Autumn ♫]

The whole reason why Corrin was added was because Sakurai saw uniqueness in Corrin's moveset. Debating whether or not Corrin is unique is not really worth it.

 

[LancerStaff]

The whole reason why Corrin was added was because Sakurai saw uniqueness in Corrin's moveset. Debating whether or not Corrin is unique is not really worth it.

Sakurai never said such a thing. That is why this is up for debate.

 

[MrRoidley]

Who else is praying for a good online...especially since we are paying for it

if Smash 5's online is as bad as Smash 4's you can bet I'll not be subscribing to Switch Online until I get Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (I haven't yet) or Team Sonic Racing (if it's part of Switch Online)
Not even Mario Tennis was able to pull me to play online regularly. It's too stressful lol

 

[Nebunera]

if Smash 5's online is as bad as Smash 4's you can bet I'll not be subscribing to Switch Online until I get Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (I haven't yet) or Team Sonic Racing (if it's part of Switch Online)
Not even Mario Tennis was able to pull me to play online regularly. It's too stressful lol

True...I'm not using Anther's ladder to go online, not even that was good and it was a long painful process to get a match going.

I'd still subscribe to Switch Online for other games and those extra classics we get...besides it is only $20!

Also I got destroyed in Mario Tennis LMAO...if they ever make Mario Volleyball I know for sure the opposite will happen.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Save the other arms for other potential ARMS characters.

Or, if custom moves return, some extra arms as customs would work nicely.

Custom moves shouldn't exist outside of Mii Fighters and reserving every non-default arm for a potential future ARMS character is absurd. We're probably never getting one, and we certainly aren't going to get enough to justify having a hard limit on who can have what for the sake of it. The game has dozens of weapons, there's nothing offensive about giving "each" representative six with three as one-offs.

I reckon he should stick with his signature ARMS. Those three plus the whole ranged gimmick are more than enough to make a standout fighter, and anything more could get cluttered.

There's a reason Dhalsim has fire (/yoga magic) and Necro has electricity. Choreographically you definitely could get a whole moveset out of just the default set, but it would mechanically be very limited. Having specials that do something unusual also gives him room to have more unusual standard attacks (like Megaman's), because you aren't using one of only three weapons he has on a special.
Both of his extra arms are projectiles, you could reasonably use that as a justification for making those specials, but if you give, say, Tribolt a dedicated special for "this represents this weapon's function," it would be weird to also put it in his standard moveset. There is simply not enough in his normal loadout to justify not using any other arms.
I realize that I'm not being very clear, but hopefully we've all played the game enough to have an intuitive understanding for why, I don't know, Yoshi has three egg-based specials but they don't appear as standard attacks, or how Link uses tools for three of his specials but then sword/body for his standards. I'm appealing for the same thing here, use the special moves for special/one-off abilities and let his core features be used more fluidly throughout his standard moveset (with the charging mechanic being the core feature that's still a special).

Firmly disagree. In the end, there’s no difference between a long punch and a laser sword and what have you.

I have no idea how you can say this if you've looked at framedata before (or even just the choreography, honestly). There absolutely should be a difference between a long, sweeping hitbox like the beam sword mostly gets you and what Dhalsim's punches would look like if he was in the game. The timing, movement, and proportions of different hitboxes are the core mechanic of fighting games as a genre, and saying there's no difference between a punch and a sword swing is akin to saying that almost every standard attack in the game is identical.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Sakurai never said such a thing. That is why this is up for debate.

"So of Nintendo’s upcoming schedule, Fates was chosen, despite Sakurai’s concern of having an abundance of Fire Emblem characters. Sakurai, after having a pep talk with the team, believed they could create a unique fighter."
-Source Gaming

It definitely looks like uniqueness was a factor.

 

[MrRoidley]

True...I'm not using Anther's ladder to go online, not even that was good and it was a long painful process to get a match going.

I'd still subscribe to Switch Online for other games and those extra classics we get...besides it is only $20!

Also I got destroyed in Mario Tennis LMAO...if they ever make Mario Volleyball I know for sure the opposite will happen.

the Switch Online NES games sound cool yeah! but I'd rather wait for it to have a bit more games down the line

 

[92MilesPrower]

Wait, they did WHAT?! They wouldn't be that crazy. Noooooo! That's not true that's impossible!

While everyone else is arguing about whether or not former US President Dwight D. Eisenhower, American Dragon Jake Long, and Plastic Man are the same character, and if some guy that knows Japanese is reliable source, I'm gonna complete the obvious reference here.

Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

That aside, I'm gonna bring up something we discussed earlier on Discord: Codecs/Palutena's Guidance. What new kinds of these do you all want in Smash 5? I really want Doc Louis giving Little Mac tips on the other characters, it was definitely a missed opportunity in Wii U.

Here's an example of one about Kirby: Be careful, son! This pink guy might be small and squishy, but he can fly, and he sure can pack a punch! Watch out for that hammer of his, and make sure he stays on the ground! He also seems awfully hungry, just make sure he stays away from me and my chocolate bars, hahaha!

 

[MrRoidley]

Doc Louis codec/guidance-esque stuff could indeed be really cool.
What I really want though, is if Springman gets in, Biff commenting on the fighters. But with his deep Arms Direct voice (if there was one disappointment I had with Arms was that Biff did not have that voice in game).
There are many other possibilities as well, such as the Squid Sisters commenting, if say Paper Mario gets in/his stage comes back, a special taunt could be Goombario/Goombella/Tippi/Huey giving tattle on the opponent as well

 

[MopedOfJustice]

What we really need is for Pokemon Trainer to make a comeback so that he can get Pokedex entries on everyone.

 

[PixelSun]

Who else is praying for a good online...especially since we are paying for it

I've been praying every single night just to hope Smash Switch will have a good online system.

 

[92MilesPrower]

Also since we're probably getting a Forces stage like it or not, I'd love to see Tails, Knuckles, and Amy (and Eggman hijacking their communication network thing) contact Sonic to give him intel on the fighters.

 

[Munomario777]

There's a reason Dhalsim has fire (/yoga magic) and Necro has electricity. Choreographically you definitely could get a whole moveset out of just the default set, but it would mechanically be very limited. Having specials that do something unusual also gives him room to have more unusual standard attacks (like Megaman's), because you aren't using one of only three weapons he has on a special.
Both of his extra arms are projectiles, you could reasonably use that as a justification for making those specials, but if you give, say, Tribolt a dedicated special for "this represents this weapon's function," it would be weird to also put it in his standard moveset. There is simply not enough in his normal loadout to justify not using any other arms.
I realize that I'm not being very clear, but hopefully we've all played the game enough to have an intuitive understanding for why, I don't know, Yoshi has three egg-based specials but they don't appear as standard attacks, or how Link uses tools for three of his specials but then sword/body for his standards. I'm appealing for the same thing here, use the special moves for special/one-off abilities and let his core features be used more fluidly throughout his standard moveset (with the charging mechanic being the core feature that's still a special).

I reckon the specials should be non-ARM techniques to begin with. Neutral B as his parry move, Side B as an ARMS-style command dash, Down B as a storable charge (like the kind you get in the game from blocking / etc), and Up B as an uppercut recovery is what I'd go for. If his only short-ranged moves are specials while his standards are all long-range, it kind of tells you that he's all about ranged combat – in the same way that Megaman's jab being lemons conveys his ranged playstyle.

From there, you could definitely fill out the rest of the moves using just the three ARM types. I'm fond of the idea that his air moves would use the boomerang arm, his smashes would use the tribolt, and the rest would use the standard glove. Each of the signature ARM types could also have a different bonus effect when powered up with Down B – like a fiery explosion, wind-powered multi-hits, or electric stun.

 

[Pacack]

I want Jesus to be in smash 5.

Is not the Lord in all things?


Regarding codecs, I'd be so hype for Doc Louis, you have no idea.

 

[IronWarrior94]

That aside, I'm gonna bring up something we discussed earlier on Discord: Codecs/Palutena's Guidance. What new kinds of these do you all want in Smash 5? I really want Doc Louis giving Little Mac tips on the other characters, it was definitely a missed opportunity in Wii U.

If Elma gets confirmed, I'd like to see a BLADE report skit on each character that's delivered to her by Lin, Tatsu, or L.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pokedex entries?

"Ridley, the Aerial Dragon. He's too big to describe well here."

 

[StrangeMann]

IF snake comes back, I feel like we'll see the return of the codec. If not, I would assume that it's going to stay as palutena's guidance.
It's pretty difficult to imagine how some modern characters would get codecs, how the metal gear characters would try and describe them...

 

[92MilesPrower]

If Elma gets confirmed, I'd like to see a BLADE report skit on each character that's delivered to her by Lin, Tatsu, or L.

That reminds me, I'd love to see Shulk have convos with his party members too about the other characters, Reyn especially.

 

[Zinith]

That reminds me, I'd love to see Shulk have convos with his party members too about the other characters, Reyn especially.

"Man, what a buncha jokahs!!!"

 

[P.Kat]

But Cloud wasn't part of the Imgur leak AT ALL. Since the subject here was the Imgur Leak.



That's true!
Though if that's really true...Damnit, Geno, you were so close to be in thanks to the mii costume... ;-;
Time to get our sad trumpet Genobros.

Us Sora fam will join you to T_T

 

[Nebunera]

Pokedex entries?

"Ridley, the Aerial Dragon. He's too big to describe well here."

"Ryu, the Combo Pokemon. Ryu is a high tier third party with a high skill learning curve. His punches and kicks have strong and weak iterations for different situations."

 

[Roberk]

Hypothetical: Is Roy a Smash OC?

The Roy the Smash community knows and loves (for the most part) is very different from the Roy from The Binding Blade. His appearance in Melee was made when Sakurai was only shown concept arts of Roy when BB was still being developed. As Binding Blade released after Melee, not even Sakurai could fully know what Roy's true character was, so Roy's "fiery" personality was mostly made up for Melee.

Sakurai: When I first heard a description of Roy’s character, I felt he was a bit more energetic, had a bit more strength inside of him. So, in comparison to Marth, whose sword is stronger at the tip, I made Roy’s sword stronger near the hilt, which I felt made them feel very different. But I played Binding Blade, and he’s really not like that at all!

Sakurai: In terms of personality, he’s mostly the same as Marth. But in Melee, Roy is expressed as a very strong character because that’s how I envisioned him during the development phase. I just want to make it clear his representation in Melee is not because I didn’t understand his character (laughs).

https://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/13/sakurai-fe25/

Another contributor is Roy's new design for Smash 4 being specifically made for the game. Now Roy in Smash is unique from FE Roy on both characters and design levels.

Sakurai: It’s important to find the right balance. If you go too far, people will say, “Who’s this!?”
—For Melee, you included Roy in Smash before his own game was released. Did you incorporate elements from his original game this time around?
If we didn’t base the new Roy on his appearance in Melee, he wouldn’t be the same, so we think of Smash Roy as separate from his appearance in FE: Binding Blade. When Roy uses his Final Smash, Critical Hit, he swings his sword in a circular motion before striking as a reference to his original game. Aside from that, however, he’s very much a unique incarnation of Roy. That’s why he’s more spirited in Smash than he is in Binding Blade (laughs).

https://sourcegaming.info/2016/02/23/nintendo-dream-interview-with-sakurai-part-2/

Even Sakurai considers Roy from Smash as a different entity than Roy from FE. Roy in Smash is much more rooted in Sakurai's assumptions and designs than pulling from Roy's game, The Binding Blade.

Finally, Roy to most exists as Roy from Smash. Nobody played a Japanese Chess simulator an unlocalized FE game from 2001. To many Roy only exists as the Roy from Smash and nothing else. For a long time, people didn't even know Roy's game Binding Blade existed, let alone played it.

If people are wondering about a Smash OC playable character, Roy is one of the best examples (also Miis).