Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[CannonStreak]

Oh yeah, I totally forgot- but @Masked Man (仮面の男) apparently did Debunk the imgur rumor a week ago with information from insider?

Spoiler: Whoop

Perhaps that's true, it's totally fake but...It still bother me when people try to debunk something without argument and just say "I know they won't be in smash". I would have liked if perhaps he went more open and at least went ahead to say WHO he's sure isn't in-
I'm sure that wouldn't have put his source in danger...

That's something I can at least give to Vergeben. He have a 50/50 record and probably the least reliable, but he doesn't go vague like "MUH ULTIMATE ROSTER FAN WILL LOVE IT" and "I know stuff"

So, the imgur leak is most likely fake? I knew it. There were too many characters who sounded like they were there just to please people who looked at the leak, if you know what I mean. That made the leak sound fishy to me. So I am not surprised.

 

[Fenriraga]

They'll probably reuse the Smash 4 lines like they do with a lot of other characters.

I hope not. I can maybe deal with that for 4's newcomers, but everyone before that REALLY needs some new voice lines.

 

[Nekoo]

So, the imgur leak is most likely fake? I knew it. There were too many characters who sounded like they were there just to please people who looked at the leak, if you know what I mean. That made the leak sound fishy to me. So I am not surprised.

I won't say most likely fake when the only source is someone saying "I know stuff" without being willing to actually dismiss the rumor, especially if they know which character is in, and they could just say who on that list isn't in at all.

 

[CannonStreak]

I won't say most likely fake when the only source is someone saying "I know stuff" without being willing to actually dismiss the rumor, especially if they know which character is in, and they could just say who on that list isn't in at all.

So you are saying the leak still can possibly work out? I still think that leak was too good to be true.

 

[SmashChu]

If you think Nintendo wouldn't do everything in their power to prevent one of the most hype-inducing characters ever announced in Smash history from getting the boot, I don't know what to tell you. And I sincerely doubt Square would be against the massive publicity.

Also lol Wii Fit getting cut. Not a chance, my guy. There has NEVER been a cut Nintendo character that is the sole representative of a franchise. The closest we've ever gotten is Ice Climbers, but that is ONLY because of Smash 3DS, they were fully intended to return otherwise. And Snake, but third party is a different story.

It just makes zero sense to cut a franchise with only one representative, no matter how small or irrelevant the series is. That's literally telling its fans "You'll get nothing and like it." Nobody wins in situations like that.

The issue is Nintendo doesn't own that character, and since this is a new game, they'll have to get the license again. Its much cheaper to get new characters than to get older ones as the cost/benefit is better. It's very rare for guest characters to return in a game likely for that reason. I spsect Sonic only came back because Nintendo and Sega had an exclusivity agreement for the Wii U. Its reasonable to expect the guest characters to be cut for any reason.

 

[Zinith]

Yikes, what is this layout?

 

[Nekoo]

So you are saying the leak still can possibly work out? I still think that leak was too good to be true.

I'm saying everything is possible until we have more evidence, don't expect it to be true, but don't directly dismiss it as fake

 

[Autumn ♫]

I don't really see Corrin very likely to not return either, since she's from the best selling game in the franchise, plus uniqueness.

Honestly, there's no real clear character to cut from Fire Emblem. Marth and Ike are obviously staying, Robin and Corrin are both really unique and from two very important games, Roy is really popular to Smash, and Lucina is also really popular and has became one of the biggest faces of the franchise.

If I had to pick though, I'd say Roy has the least going for him, but even then there's no real reason to cut him.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

They tried. Activision wouldn't release Crash and Spyro, and Square Enix wouldn't release Cloud, Sora or Lara Croft.

Wasn't Lara considered for that game but Square passed since the reboot hadn't been released yet?

 

[P.Kat]

If anything the FE lineup just isn't going to change, especially since there's no clear next representative anyway

Lyn wouldn't be too farfetched

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm saying everything is possible until we have more evidence, don't expect it to be true, but don't directly dismiss it as fake

If you say so. Just over one week until E3 comes along.

 

[Fenriraga]

The issue is Nintendo doesn't own that character, and since this is a new game, they'll have to get the license again. Its much cheaper to get new characters than to get older ones as the cost/benefit is better. It's very rare for guest characters to return in a game likely for that reason. I spsect Sonic only came back because Nintendo and Sega had an exclusivity agreement for the Wii U. Its reasonable to expect the guest characters to be cut for any reason.

That's fair to an extent, I suppose. But I'm also of the mindset that it's too early to really determine the longevity of third parties, considering we've only had two entries with third parties up to this point. You're absolutely right about the licenses, but again, as of right now we only have Snake and Sonic to go off of, the former of which had many outside issues with Konami and Kojima not in Sakurai's control and the other pretty much being more likely to return that some of Nintendo's own first party characters.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Lyn wouldn't be too farfetched

Depends on how well she performed in the ballot I guess, she topped the FE Heroes poll so she's probably higher than any other fire emblem character at least

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't really see Corrin very likely to not return either, since she's from the best selling game in the franchise, plus uniqueness.

Whoa, Fates outsold Awakening? That's news to me.

Personally I think we'll for sure see Marth, Ike, and Robin stick around. Not so sure about the other 3 from Smash, I could see one being on the base roster and the rest coming back as DLC. But who knows. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Nekoo]

I think it would unironically be a marketing Suicide to not get Sonic back for a Smash game now.

 

[Zeox]

I think it would unironically be a marketing Suicide to not get Sonic back from a Smash game now.

They replace Sonic with Knuckles

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I think it would unironically be a marketing Suicide to not get Sonic back for a Smash game now.

Well smash and mania are the only good things sonic has going for him right now, after all forces was trash and flopped lol

 

[Deleted member]

Mario: Sure Crash, we let your trilogy to be in Switch, but forget about Smash.
Crash: Why is that?
Mario: Remember this commercial?

Yet Sonic is allowed when SEGA did this?:

(i know you are joking but i still wanted to post this)

 

[CannonStreak]

Well smash and mania are the only good things sonic has going for him right now, forces was trash and flopped lol

Well, it wasn't trash to me, if you don't mind me saying. But I give it around a 70 or 75. It wasn't as great as it could have been, and it could have been better. But to me, it wasn't that bad of a game. Plus, where did you hear it flop, because I remember Sega themselves saying the game did well, though they did not show any numbers.

 

[YoshiandToad]

They tried. Activision wouldn't release Crash and Spyro, and Square Enix wouldn't release Cloud, Sora or Lara Croft.

This just depresses me ;;

A Playstation All Stars game without the major All Stars. Konami even only gave them Raiden...

 

[LancerStaff]

I don't really see Corrin very likely to not return either, since she's from the best selling game in the franchise, plus uniqueness.

Honestly, there's no real clear character to cut from Fire Emblem. Marth and Ike are obviously staying, Robin and Corrin are both really unique and from two very important games, Roy is really popular to Smash, and Lucina is also really popular and has became one of the biggest faces of the franchise.

If I had to pick though, I'd say Roy has the least going for him, but even then there's no real reason to cut him.

Unique... What? Corrin is one of if not the most generic and uninspired newcomer we got. Sakurai even admitted that Corrin was only included because the rest of the team had gotten a lot of work done on the character.

Corrin has a fandom, but Corrin also has a gigantic hatedom too. Marth Ike and Robin don’t get nearly as much flak.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

There's no way to tell what the fate of 3rd parties will be. There's simply not enough evidence to suggest much of anything.

Snake was cut in the transition between Brawl and Wii U/3DS, but there are outside factors.

Sonic was brought back. Granted, he's Sonic the Hedgehog, but he was brought back. This at least implies that both parties were willing to come back to the table. There's no reason to think Capcom would be against Mega Man (and by extension Ryu) coming back, nor Namco against Pac-Man returning.

Based on the interviews (granted, it could just be PR) Nomura was quite excited at the prospect of Cloud in Smash Bros. This game really does have clout among the gaming industry. A lot of different developers would only dream of having their own characters in Smash. Despite Final Fantasy being an extremely successful series (and Final Fantasy VII being the most famous/beloved/iconic) I don't think it's hard to believe that Nintendo would come back to the table.

I mean, it's freaking Cloud. He's not just an "anime swordsman" like a lot of people here would like to think. Cloud means something to the industry.

I would agree with the licensing argument, in that Nintendo needs to save money, if I was convinced that retaining each of the acquired 3rd parties would mean a potential negative for the bottom line of the profit margin, I might agree that it would be an issue...but as of now I'm not entirely convinced. For all we know, Sakurai/Nintendo might intend to go back to the negotiating table for any 3rd party they acquire (except for Snake).

One last side note...If you're Nintendo/Sakurai, and you view the acquisition of Cloud as a "miracle", why wouldn't you at least try to acquire the character again, especially if the company that owns him was willing to work with you the first time?

This isn't directed at anybody in particular, but if it worked the first time then there's no reason to believe it couldn't work the next.

 

[Pacack]

Whoa, Fates outsold Awakening? That's news to me.

Personally I think we'll for sure see Marth, Ike, and Robin stick around. Not so sure about the other 3 from Smash, I could see one being on the base roster and the rest coming back as DLC. But who knows. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Solid maybe. Physical sales are behind Awakening, but digital sales likely helped Fates to top it since so many people bought one version physically and the other two digitally.

 

[Warchamp7]

View attachment 146823

It's not letting me embed from imgur, is the thing. I couldn't do it in this post for this image either.

That's an album link, you need to embed individual images

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I've been following the rumors for a long time and can remember most of them, but am not sure what rumor is being referenced here as the "dream cast".
May I please have a refresher?

Same here. I don’t really remember it.

This

I'm not sure if this dude is a reliable source or not though

The rumor is Microsoft and Nintendo is revealing a surprise team up thing

And vergeben would still be legit road because minecraft being involved in smash is possible (not necessary Steve as playable)

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Well, it wasn't trash to me, if you don't mind me saying. But I give it around a 70 or 75. It wasn't as great as it could have been, and it could have been better. But to me, it wasn't that bad of a game. Plus, where did you hear it flop, because I remember Sega themselves saying the game did well, though they did not show any numbers.

I'm just gonna say there's a reason it's sitting at the mid-50's on metacritic.

I can't remember tbh but I remember hearing people saying it did poorly, at least after the first week it did. Sega saying it did well despite not showing numbers doesn't really mean much tbh.

 

[Zinith]

Now I realize what absolute horse**** my avatar is

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Unique... What? Corrin is one of if not the most generic and uninspired newcomer we got. Sakurai even admitted that Corrin was only included because the rest of the team had gotten a lot of work done on the character.

Corrin has a fandom, but Corrin also has a gigantic hatedom too. Marth Ike and Robin don’t get nearly as much flak.

>Can turn into a dragon
>has longer range than any other Fire Emblem Swordsman

Can anybody else turn into a dragon? There are a number of other things I can point out about how the character plays in Smash, but that's not really the point.

I mean, you're literally wrong considering Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit are all far less unique than Corrin (even though you can't really play any of them the same way as their source material).

If you're going to make an argument, at least make a compelling one. The way this argument is built, it's like you're not even trying.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Everyone's speculating Sora or Geno and here I am still hoping for Black Mage.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

This just depresses me ;;

A Playstation All Stars game without the major All Stars. Konami even only gave them Raiden...

Heihachi isn't an Playstation All Star?

 

[Pacack]

That's an album link, you need to embed individual images

Well, now I feel ridiculous.

Thanks. It's good now.

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm just gonna say there's a reason it's sitting at the mid-50's on metacritic.

I can't remember tbh but I remember hearing people saying it did poorly, at least after the first week it did. Sega saying it did well despite not showing numbers doesn't really mean much tbh.

Well, I think it deserves a bit more than that, but hey, what can you do. Plus, I don't see the 50s as being that bad. Just not that great.

Plus, if you heard it did poorly, and Sega saying that doesn't mean much, then neither of us don't know how it truly did, do we?

 

[monadoboy]

So, with E3 being right around the corner I've been working my butt off on a moveset for Captain Toad in the hopes of getting it out prior to the big day. Typically I finished JUST as the boards went down. D'oh!

But they're back up now, so I'd like to present you with my Captain Toad Moveset! It's animated!

Please take a look, give thoughts and feedback and if you really like share the video!

I may do another one after E3 but time will tell. This kicked my butt and I want to see who gets a reveal first at E3(nothing worse than spending a month on animation just to find the character's just been revealed as you do so)

Enjoy!

This is amazing!

Sadly, I realized what I didn't like about Toads in general. Their voice is so grating. Anyway. great job.

 

[Pacack]

Can anybody else turn into a dragon?

Me, whispering sadly and softly into the wind: Tiki can.

 

[LancerStaff]

>Can turn into a dragon
>has longer range than any other Fire Emblem Swordsman

Can anybody else turn into a dragon? There are a number of other things I can point out about how the character plays in Smash, but that's not really the point.

I mean, you're literally wrong considering Lucina, Dr. Mario, and Dark Pit are all far less unique than Corrin (even though you can't really play any of them the same way as their source material).

If you're going to make an argument, at least make a compelling one. The way this argument is built, it's like you're not even trying.

Turning into a dragon is a fancy visual. Their range outside of a few moves is average.

Wasn’t counting clones. Kinda thought that was obvious...

Let’s be real here. Nothing Corrin does is unique to the character. Hell, you could slap Springman over the moveset and very little would change, and it would still fit.

 

[P.Kat]

I hope not. I can maybe deal with that for 4's newcomers, but everyone before that REALLY needs some new voice lines.

Yeah I agree on the whole vocal overhaul. Goroh needs to learn to use some words, Knuckle Joe needs to stop breathing in Helium, and Lyn sounds way older than she looks. Here hoping Fox's VA is either from Brawl, or Smash 4's VA is up to bringing his A game (I say this cause I think he had a sinus infection when doing the voice of Fox for smash 4), and Bowser should at least be able to say words by now, and although their my third main even I must admit Corrin NEEDS better catchphrases and victory quotes, "Good." "I Won." is just to generic that dragon victory is their only saving grace.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Turning into a dragon is a fancy visual. Their range outside of a few moves is average.

Wasn’t counting clones. Kinda thought that was obvious...

Let’s be real here. Nothing Corrin does is unique to the character. Hell, you could slap Springman over the moveset and very little would change, and it would still fit.

So turning into a dragon and having more range than arguably the entire roster, as well as having the ability to pin a character into the ground with the dragon arm isn't unique from any of the other characters in the roster, who surprisingly, can't do that?

I mean, I don't know what definition you're using to define Corrin as "not unique" but like...yeah. Being unique in Smash means you do things nobody else can, and that you can't be played the same way as anybody else. Corrin fits both of those.

I'm also quite sure Sakurai would have said "Nope" if she didn't offer anything new.

EDIT: Actually, let me dig a little deeper.

Can Spring Man sprout wings and push himself closer to the stage? No.

Does Spring Man wield a Chainsaw-Sword like Corrin does? Nope.

Does Springman have the ability to turn his hands into spikes at will for a potential upsmash? No, he doesn't.

Can Springman turn into a dragon for the down throw/final Smash? I don't think so.

Can Spring Man fire bursts of energy out of a "Dragon Fang" Claw? Not really.

They aren't comparable.

 

[Megadoomer]

Heihachi isn't an Playstation All Star?

I feel like it was a monkey's paw kind of thing. I can't speak for Isaac Clarke, but other than that, they got Big Daddy (when Bioshock wasn't on PS3 originally and doesn't have a great deal of connection to Sony), Raiden (seemingly to promote Metal Gear Rising; he got in over Snake, which seems hilariously fitting), Dante (the reboot one that nobody likes), and Heihachi (a young version that would, at first glance, be added to promote Tekken Tag Tournament 2 - this was out of their control, though, seeing as it's how they dealt with what happened to Heihachi's longtime voice actor).

If it had been Snake, classic Dante, old Heihachi, and someone from Grand Theft Auto (Take Two Interactive owns both franchises), then that would have been a pretty solid third party line-up, even without Crash, Spyro, or any Square-Enix characters. As it stands, they got characters who were close to major third party Sony characters, but not quite.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Heihachi isn't an Playstation All Star?

Not enough to carry the game by the looks of things. I'd say Jak and Daxter, Sly and Ratchet and Clank are also definitely Playstation All Stars but Crash, Spyro, Cloud and Lara are such big names they pale comparitively.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Brawl added characters from 2016 games (Lucas and Lucario)

Lucas's game was actually intended to be released in 2005 before being delayed and Lucario made his debut in a movie that aired in 2005, the same year the roster for Brawl was finalized (with the exception of Sonic) so those examples don't really help your argument at all.