Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zeox]

This leak is just a wishlist of characters the fans want. There will never be this much fanservice.

Isn't Smash just a fanservice game where you can play as your favorite nintendo (and thirdparties) characters?

 

[Skyblade12]

I now realized something pretty dumb.
What if the "Vilain va Heroes" thingy from the rumor wasn't the general theme of the game... But the tones of the reveal trailer? Explaining the "it will makes sense at E3"

We could get a CGI trailer, in the vain of Brawl, with one large action scene with Mario fighting Bowser And Bowser Jr being in a bad spot before Geno suddenly appear and such-

Simon Belmont appearing after Medusa fight Pit-

You know, the kind of trailer they do for Dissidia Final Fantasy? (And the overrepresented heroes in the roster wasn't a problem in that case)

Okay, let's go with that.

Since the game isn't themed around Heroes vs Villains...

Why the heckles are Samurai Goroh, Medusa, and Porky making it into the game?

To make that trailer really epic?

 

[RileyXY1]

Isn't Smash just a fanservice game where you can play as your favorite nintendo (and thirdparties) characters?

But most of these are unlikely. Snake, Simon, and Sora all have legal issues preventing them from being playable, Ridley is too big, and Goroh and Porky come from dead franchises.

 

[Zeox]

Okay, let's go with that.

Since the game isn't themed around Heroes vs Villains...

Why the heckles are Samurai Goroh, Medusa, and Porky making it into the game?

To make that trailer really epic?

The game itself wouldn't be, but the newcomers would.
At least that's what I think Nekoo is trying to say.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Okay, let's go with that.

Since the game isn't themed around Heroes vs Villains...

Why the heckles are Samurai Goroh, Medusa, and Porky making it into the game?

To make that trailer really epic?

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that during the ballot a lot of people wrtiting in for King K. Rool, Ridley and Wolf probably mentioned the lack of series villians. This might have made Sakurai realize fans wanted more villians added. That and with many main series running dry of protagonists it makes sense to add those next.

Just an idea though! I admit without the game having an overall theme the "shoe-horned" villians feel even more out of place.

 

[Nu~]

Since we're talking about the ""leak""", I'm gonna rank the rumored newcomers based on hype already:

Ridley: 80%
Simon: 40%
Wolf: 100%
King K. Rool: 75%
Dixie Kong: 80%
Sora: 100% but only if donald duck is in otherwise 70% but only if donald duck is possible next game otherwise 60%
Geno/Mallow: 40%
Chorus Kids: 80%
Porky: 80%
Medusa: depends/10
Mimikyu: 60%
Elma: 40%
Snake: veteran/10
Icies: veteran/10
Goroh: 30%
Takamaru: 75%

I know I’m late but herr we gooo

Ridley: 35%
Simon: 50%
Wolf: 100%
King K. Rool: 65%
Dixie Kong: 65%
Sora: 65%
Geno/Mallow: 5%
Chorus Kids: 20%
Porky: 60%
Medusa: 80%
Mimikyu: 50%
Elma: 50%
Snake: 70%
Icies: 30%
Goroh: 50%
Takamaru: 40%

Feeling kinda lukewarm about this leak. It’s...aight?

Wolf, Snake, and Medusa would be hype af tho.

 

[SonicMario]

My mindset with the more prominent Smash leaks (Most particularly Vergeben's) with E3 is: If it's all true or even only some of it's true. Then that's cool, alot of these characters I would totally be behind getting in Smash. RIdley's reveal alone would be hype whether or not we were told in advance just because of the history of how long it took Ridley to get in.

If NONE of it's true. Then that makes it even more intriguing as we'll have had like literally no info (The leaks whether they're true or false has actually calmed my patience since they started, otherwise I think I would of gone crazy with impatience if we STILL didn't have a single piece of information at this point and time) and the first we'll be seeing any information about the new Smash other then Inklings and it's coming out this year will be right in the presentation. There might be something magical about going in blind with the presentation where you have no idea what will happen next. (Which can be scary, but at the same time quite exciting).

I admit with the lack of information I'd prefer that Verge's stuff is at least partially true so that we'll indeed had something come out since. But I'm seeing this very much as a pro and con for each. There's good things that can come out in all scenarios. I mean as long as the game isn't going to cut the roster to the point where the base game has a smaller amount of characters then Smash 4's base game roster, it should be hype regardless (Probably not a good idea to include less characters then a game people have on their 3DSs after all.)

 

[Zeox]

But most of these are unlikely. Snake, Simon, and Sora all have legal issues preventing them from being playable, Ridley is too big, and Goroh and Porky come from dead franchises.

So are Sonic, Ryu, Cloud and Megaman.
And there is a reason why "ridley is too big" is a meme, and that's because is an awful argument to use, go to youtube and watch some smash mods with ridley.
Goroh and Porky come from classic franchises that have been in the snes mini recently, in e-shop, and could come with extra announcements (like captain falcon and goroh being playable in the new star fox racing game, or Mother 3 finally being localized)

 

[Skyblade12]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that during the ballot a lot of people wrtiting in for King K. Rool, Ridley and Wolf probably mentioned the lack of series villians. This might have made Sakurai realize fans wanted more villians added. That and with many main series running dry of protagonists it makes sense to add those next.

Just an idea though! I admit without the game having an overall theme the "shoe-horned" villians feel even more out of place.

A lot of people, perhaps. Certainly not all of them. Many of K. Rool's fans probably wrote that they wanted more DK representation. So clearly, the newcomers are going to be Cranky, Candy, Kiddy, Dixie, Funky, Sqwaks, etcetera.

You also forget that a lot of people DIDN'T vote for K. Rool and Ridley (and, no, most people who argued for Wolf were probably arguing because he was fun to play and stuff like that, not because he's a villain). And people who voted for Isaac, Takamaru, Chorus Kids, Isabelle, Elma, Bayonetta, Shovel Knight, Quote, Shantae, etcetera WEREN'T asking for villains.

 

[RileyXY1]

So are Sonic, Ryu, Cloud and Megaman.
And there is a reason why "ridley is too big" is a meme, and that's because is an awful argument to use, go to youtube and watch some smash mods with ridley.
Goroh and Porky come from classic franchises that have been in the snes mini recently, in e-shop, and could come with extra announcements (like captain falcon and goroh being playable in the new star fox racing game, or Mother 3 finally being localized)

Simon and Snake are owned by Konami, which are in a real bad situation and Kojima is no longer with them. Sora is partially owned by Disney. Sakurai himself said that if Ridley makes it in he would have to be stripped down to the point that he wouldn't be Ridley anymore. Goroh and Porky are from franchises that haven't got a new installment since the GBA days and are low priority in terms of newcomers.

 

[LunchmanJ]

Everyone else covered Greninja, Lucario, and Wii Fit Trainer. Also gonna ignore your unironic use of the term SJW as an insult.

But your justification for cutting Lucina is bonkers.

She has a lot more than just Awakening under her belt. Beyond that, she's playable in Code Name: S.T.E.A.M. and Fates and is summonable as a phantom in Shadows of Valentia via amiibo, and is fully playable in Fire Emblem Warriors, Project X Zone 2, Fire Emblem Heroes (in which she has four playable versions of herself), and has several depictions of her as cards in the physical trading card game Fire Emblem Cipher.

That's a whole lot more than "one game." And if spin-offs don't count for some arbitrary reason, then Waluigi absolutely doesn't have twenty games under his belt. Consistency is key.

Fine, I have Lucario and Greninja in my roster. Lucina as well. I decided to keep Lucario and Greninja because being dominant in a gen is more rare than I thought. Some gens straight up don't have a most popular starter (who's more popular out of Sceptile, Blaziken, and Mudkip?) Lucina... (???) Here's my reason. She's around as important as Chrom, so why isn't Chrom in the game?

EDIT: In case you forgot or want to know my current roster, it's here, near the bottom: https://smashboards.com/threads/smash-for-switch-roster-thread.453473/page-5 Also, I'm seeing a lot of fear of what's new here and a lot of hate towards me.

 

[Fenriraga]

But most of these are unlikely. Snake, Simon, and Sora all have legal issues preventing them from being playable, Ridley is too big, and Goroh and Porky come from dead franchises.

Sora and Snake I can understand, but there's barely anything standing in Simon's way besides Konami, honestly. Even then, Sora's case has recently developed thanks to an interview with the Vice President of Disney's Japanese branch saying they're absolutely open to the idea if it is something fans would be comfortable with. Namoura always has the final say in everything with Sora, Disney just owns him from a purely legal standpoint. I doubt he'd be against the idea.

Don't even get me started on that tired Ridley "argument".

"Dead franchises" have gotten reps plenty of times before, so there's nothing stopping those from happening.

I don't see many of them as likely, but the logic here is not NEARLY as black and white as you're making it out to be.

 

[Zeox]

Simon and Snake are owned by Konami, which are in a real bad situation and Kojima is no longer with them. Sora is partially owned by Disney. Sakurai himself said that if Ridley makes it in he would have to be stripped down to the point that he wouldn't be Ridley anymore. Goroh and Porky are from franchises that haven't got a new installment since the GBA days and are low priority in terms of newcomers.

Konami is in a bad situtation and that's exactly why they would want some extra promotion and extra money.
Being partially owned by Disney means nothing, is still promotion for KH3.
And for the love of god you know how many times Sakurai have changed mind? it has been so many times that is not even funny at this point.

 

[Opossum]

Fine, I have Lucario and Greninja in my roster. Lucina as well. I decided to keep Lucario and Greninja because being dominant in a gen is more rare than I thought. Some gens straight up don't have a most popular starter (who's more popular out of Sceptile, Blaziken, and Mudkip?) Lucina... (???) Here's my reason. She's around as important as Chrom, so why isn't Chrom in the game?

Because Robin offered more and Lucina was a last minute clone. It's been discussed to death at this point.

 

[Skyblade12]

Fine, I have Lucario and Greninja in my roster. Lucina as well. I decided to keep Lucario and Greninja because being dominant in a gen is more rare than I thought. Some gens straight up don't have a most popular starter (who's more popular out of Sceptile, Blaziken, and Mudkip?) Lucina... (???) Here's my reason. She's around as important as Chrom, so why isn't Chrom in the game?

Because she's the second most popular Fire Emblem character, and he's the sixteenth, and dropping?

 

[Nekoo]

Simon and Snake are owned by Konami, which are in a real bad situation and Kojima is no longer with them. Sora is partially owned by Disney. Sakurai himself said that if Ridley makes it in he would have to be stripped down to the point that he wouldn't be Ridley anymore. Goroh and Porky are from franchises that haven't got a new installment since the GBA days and are low priority in terms of newcomers.

Well I guess Villager and Pac-Man are cut next since Sakurai said they couldn't work as a fighter back in the brawl day.

 

[RileyXY1]

Sora and Snake I can understand, but there's barely anything standing in Simon's way besides Konami, honestly. Even then, Sora's case has recently developed thanks to an interview with the Vice President of Disney's Japanese branch saying they're absolutely open to the idea if it is something fans would be comfortable with. Namoura always has the final say in everything with Sora, and I doubt he'd be against the idea.

Don't even get me started on that tired Ridley "argument".

Dead franchises have gotten reps plenty of times before, so there's nothing stopping those from happening.

I don't see many of them as likely, but the logic here is not NEARLY as black and white as you're making it out to be.

There's also Square Enix. They haven't been on Nintendo's side since the SNES days and Cloud was only added because of the demand for a FF character. Cloud will most likely be cut unless the FF7 remake comes to the Switch.

 

[RileyXY1]

Well I guess Villager and Pac-Man are cut next since Sakurai said they couldn't work as a fighter back in the brawl day.

Sakurai has a tendency to go back on his word. Ridley is just too difficult to put in Smash without stripping him down and removing all essence of the character.

 

[Nekoo]

Sakurai has a tendency to go back on his word.

See? You proved your WHOOOLE argument wrong by yourself.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Okay, let's go with that.

Since the game isn't themed around Heroes vs Villains...

Why the heckles are Samurai Goroh, Medusa, and Porky making it into the game?

To make that trailer really epic?

Alright, let's see;

Samurai Goroh -
Not only the best choice for a new F-Zero character, but Goroh is recurring in the Smash games. First in Melee he was important enough to be featured in the opening cinematic trailer, alongside Wolf and Ridley. He was the first Assist Trophy shown during both Brawl and Smash 4. He is the true rival to Captain Falcon, and has appeared in more games than say, Black Shadow. Therefore, one could say that after Captain Falcon, Samurai Goroh, Pico and Dr. Stewart might be more important by recurring roles. People assume Sakurai would dump Ganon's moveset to Black Shadow which is the worst reason to add a character. Now, imagine yourself the first character using a Katana. He is heavyweight, so pretty much like Ike. And could pull from Sumo moves, which who does now again? The whole concept itself might be interesting enough for Sakurai to think that he is indeed important enough for Smash to jump on the playable status, despite not being the most requested, he is still interesting design wise.

Medusa -
If Villains are a popular thing, you could betcha that Medusa would at least be considered. She is perhaps the most famous "female" villain of Nintendo. Also, we know that Sakurai could be felt a bit biased when it comes to Kid Icarus, and we know that it would not be a stretch to see a 4th character from Kid Icarus. If history holds any bound, we can look back to the first Kid Icarus, where Medusa was the main villain, and thus makes quite much sense. She would be the perfect rival to Palutena, and she would be what Palutena is for Pit, to Dark Pit. That's crushing many stones into one! So, if the "theme" of villains where to be a thing, why just male villains when there are one strong in Medusa, which also makes sense as females where a big theme in Smash 4. Also, she could maybe an easier clone too, which is said not to take too long making, which would of make sense too.

Porky Minch -
Now, there is not too much I can say about Porky, because I know very little about the character and the franchise itself, but if we should go over his importance, he does have some in both the Earthbound series and in Smash. First of all, Porky is a recurring character in Earthbound, being both a villain for Ness and Lucas, which means there is common ground. In Smash he was featured as a boss for the Subspace Emissery, and even feautured his own stage "New Pork City", which is something weird in itself why a non playable villain from a series with character representation would get a stage. (It happened again witl Wily Castle, but that is third party, plus Mega Man is famous for stages where they are bosses anyways). While some might see Porky as a difficult choice due to playstyle and concept, Sakurai might see it differently, and felt that perhaps there is little new, so we have to look back sort of thoght process. Also, it would make sense that Sakurai would look back to the Original 12 and look at their franchises. Who knows?

 

[Skyblade12]

Sakurai has a tendency to go back on his word. Ridley is just too difficult to put in Smash without stripping him down and removing all essence of the character.

Bull feathers. A handful of fans were able to do it (see Legacy). But a professional team can't?

 

[Zeox]

A lot of people, perhaps. Certainly not all of them. Many of K. Rool's fans probably wrote that they wanted more DK representation. So clearly, the newcomers are going to be Cranky, Candy, Kiddy, Dixie, Funky, Sqwaks, etcetera.

You also forget that a lot of people DIDN'T vote for K. Rool and Ridley (and, no, most people who argued for Wolf were probably arguing because he was fun to play and stuff like that, not because he's a villain). And people who voted for Isaac, Takamaru, Chorus Kids, Isabelle, Elma, Bayonetta, Shovel Knight, Quote, Shantae, etcetera WEREN'T asking for villains.

Because characters like K. Rool, Ridley and others all use the reason of "smash needs more villains", but characters like isabelle, shovel knight or takamaru don't have a common reason, they are separated into their own stuff.
I dunno, I am neither Sakurai nor the dude that make that fake leak, if is true ask the first one, if is BS ask the second one.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Speaking of Smash Bros and tone and all that jazz, I just realized that Smash..... is actually pretty dark once you think about it.

Heroes and villains, some friends and some enemies, all locked in gruesome combat against one another for the entertainment of otherworldly beings, whom can control their very actions and determine their fates. That's pretty dark.

 

[Skyblade12]

Speaking of Smash Bros and tone and all that jazz, I just realized that Smash..... is actually pretty dark once you think about it.

Heroes and villains, some friends and some enemies, all locked in gruesome combat against one another for the entertainment of otherworldly beings, whom can control their very actions and determine their fates. That's pretty dark.

Or they're dolls fighting against each other in a child's imagination.

 

[Opossum]

I mean with as many semi-credible people as there are saying Ridley is in, i don't think he's completely impossible...


...But using fan mods as a justification isn't great considering pretty much all of them look janky as hell.

 

[Zeox]

Speaking of Smash Bros and tone and all that jazz, I just realized that Smash..... is actually pretty dark once you think about it.

Heroes and villains, some friends and some enemies, all locked in gruesome combat against one another for the entertainment of otherworldly beings, whom can control their very actions and determine their fates. That's pretty dark.

But they are just toys / thropies, not the real ones, so everything is fine? maybe? probably not?

 

[T-Hell]

Yes, I also agree that a no-cut scenario is just unrealistic.

I think the only reason you think that is because it has been the case every time (not counting Melee) and you just straight up don't conceive it not happening again.
It could still be the case that cuts happen again, but if there is a time where it could be completely possible that it doesn't, it's now.

 

[Fenriraga]

There's also Square Enix. They haven't been on Nintendo's side since the SNES days and Cloud was only added because of the demand for a FF character. Cloud will most likely be cut unless the FF7 remake comes to the Switch.

You really need to put a lid on your "logic" here. Everything you're talking about is purely baseless conjecture.

Who ever said Square was on Nintendo's bad side? Last I checked some of Square's best and most profitable games of recent memory have been on Nintendo platforms. Yes, the FF7 Dev team was told to "never look back at Nintendo" or whatever. That was the mid 90's. A LOT has changed since then. Friendly reminder that Mario, Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest have crossed over with each other multiple times.

Ryu was advertising literally nothing for Nintendo at the time of his reveal. SF5 was a PS exclusive. That affected nothing with his inclusion.

Cloud was an extremely popular pick for a reason and is the face of Square Enix in many ways. His chances of being cut are higher than some, sure, but there is a damn good chance he's staying.

 

[RileyXY1]

I mean with as many semi-credible people as there are saying Ridley is in, i don't think he's completely impossible...


...But using fan mods as a justification isn't great considering pretty much all of them look janky as hell.

Yeah. That's not a very good argument.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Bull feathers. A handful of fans were able to do it (see Legacy). But a professional team can't?

I mean, is the Legacy mod the best example?

Yes, they gave him two separate movesets, but both have ways to straight up kill people at 0% consisntently with their air grabs.

What the mod shows is that making a Ridley for Smash isn't impossible, but it doesn't show that it can be balanced yet.

Maybe this is what concerns Sakurai? That he can't make him fit in and be balanced at the same time?

 

[osby]

Bull feathers. A handful of fans were able to do it (see Legacy). But a professional team can't?

I guess a professional team needs to make actually good animations.

 

[Skyblade12]

I mean, is the Legacy mod the best example?

Yes, they gave him two separate movesets, but both have ways to straight up kill people at 0% consisntently with their air grabs.

What the mod shows is that making a Ridley for Smash isn't impossible, but it doesn't show that it can be balanced yet.

Maybe this is what concerns Sakurai? That he can't make him fit in and be balanced at the same time?

Sakurai doesn't balance anymore anyway, the balance team does.

And Bayonetta had 0% kills, so what's the harm in that?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Sakurai doesn't balance anymore anyway, the balance team does.

And Bayonetta had 0% kills, so what's the harm in that?

Fair enough.

But still, I agree with the others in that fanmade stuff isn't always the best argument.

If it were, at least one person would try to use Super Smash Flash 2 as a valid argument for Goku.

 

[Zeox]

I mean, is the Legacy mod the best example?

Yes, they gave him two separate movesets, but both have ways to straight up kill people at 0% consisntently with their air grabs.

What the mod shows is that making a Ridley for Smash isn't impossible, but it doesn't show that it can be balanced yet.

Maybe this is what concerns Sakurai? That he can't make him fit in and be balanced at the same time?

What one of these are you talking? I found 3 different ridley mods:

Spoiler

 

[Edgelord_197]

Konami is in a bad situtation and that's exactly why they would want some extra promotion and extra money.
Being partially owned by Disney means nothing, is still promotion for KH3.
And for the love of god you know how many times Sakurai have changed mind? it has been so many times that is not even funny at this point.

I think Konami is actually doing well, from the recent Fiscal report. Must be from mobile market and the stupid pachinko machines.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I mean with as many semi-credible people as there are saying Ridley is in, i don't think he's completely impossible...


...But using fan mods as a justification isn't great considering pretty much all of them look janky as hell.

They look janky because they're fan mods, they obviously don't have the polish of official characters but when it comes down to purely sizing, at least in my opinion, ridley looks completely fine.

 

[Nekoo]

So...people want another Fake leak to discuss? Here it is.

Vergeben leak is real, Imgur leak is fake.

Ridley, Simon, Ice Climbers, Snake are real.
Wolf is also back.
No cuts from 4. Game is basically a remixed ultimate Smash, like Tekken Tag 2 to Tekken 6.
King K. Rool, Dixie, Elma, Mimikyu, Ashley, Takamaru, Geno, Rayman, Heihachi, Octolings, Captain Toad, Monita. That's your full roster.
Feel free to trust me or not. Just bookmark this for later.

That one is piggybacking both the Vergeben and Imgur leak spinning it at his own sauce
But it sounds so fake and weird.
For people who don't know who it is, Monita is the Monitor robot from Nintendo Land.

I call this one absolutely fake

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What one of these are you talking? I found 3 different ridley mods:

Spoiler

All of them are in Legacy (pretty sure the last two are the same), with the first one being an L-alt (like how one would pick ZSS in Brawl)

 

[Troykv]

It's a shame that this conversations begin when I'm in the cellphone.

It would be a decent reason to put unshameful Micaiah advertising.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

I know, but I feel like they might do it as a way to persuade others for forgiveness

I honestly think they don’t really care about whether they’re “forgiven” or not. They probably don’t even see anything wrong in anything they’ve done.