Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Diddy Kong]

Still think the Ridley mods are awkward looking honestly. Also imbalanced as I said. Look at the second video with all those air grabs. Thanks for showing me again that Ridley is a bad idea.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Still think the Ridley mods are awkward looking honestly. Also imbalanced as I said. Look at the second video with all those air grabs. Thanks for showing me again that Ridley is a bad idea.

In all fairness, those air grabs could be fixed the same way chaingrabs were removed in Smash 4.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Ridley is meant to be strong, intimidating, has a huge *** tail as his signature attack thus Falchion x 3 range, and due to his wings he should also be good with aerial combat and he's a huge target thanks to his build.

So generally strong attacks and one or two longer range moves. Palutena and mii gunner having one or two super high range moves doesn't make them even remotely OP so attack range isn't a problem. And even then there are still sacrifices that can be made. Higher lag or slower startup are simple easy fixes to balance it out.

Or he'd just be the game's punching bag if he's anything heavier, cause there's not much they can do about his stance, or the size of his wings and tail.

well for one he can coil his tail around and fold his wings in so it's mostly Z axis so that isnt really a problem just like it isn't for Charizard. And even then, being a punching bag doesnt really matter since that is pretty much all heavyweits lol

So he could have the Mewtwo syndrome of being big but light, which was never a good combination.

Except you gave yourself the exact reason of how balance works.

(before the buffs)

If a character is weak you buff some aspect of them. Now they aren't weak.


Character doesnt work? Buff them. Big and light but strong.

And even with all that, balance in being weak doesnt really matter all that much. Jigglypuff is complete garbage in this game for a whole lot of reasons, and yet she is still in the game ad could quite easily be buffed.

And, you arent really making sense. Starting out making it sound like RIdley would be OP< then oncluding that he would be too weak.

Maybe logic just doesn't work cause you both seem to be reacting emotionally. Which gives away that you'd both not be willing to listen to anything that contradicts what you personally want and expect to happen.

I literally have one post and it isn't emotional at all lol

Don't be rude about other posters, especially when are misrepresenting people.

Still think the Ridley mods are awkward looking honestly. Also imbalanced as I said. Look at the second video with all those air grabs. Thanks for showing me again that Ridley is a bad idea.

A. that's an unprofessional fan mod
B. its a mod, it doesn't need to be balanced
C. Just nerf other aspects and the concept is fine. because that's how balance works.

 

[Schnee117]

So he could have the Mewtwo syndrome (before the buffs) of being big but light, which was never a good combination.
.

Before the buffs is precisely the point though. You can adjust the numbers to balance the character properly.

Or he'd just be the game's punching bag if he's anything heavier, cause there's not much they can do about his stance, or the size of his wings and tail.

Bowser and DK are both pretty big targets too but they still seem to do reasonably well. Especially DK.
The wings and tail wouldn't have hurtboxes either.
You also act like the wings and tail wouldn't be folded in.

Also imbalanced as I said. Look at the second video with all those air grabs. Thanks for showing me again that Ridley is a bad idea.

*plays against CPU in a Mod showcase*
"Imbalanced"

 

[Deleted member]

Is it really a problem for people to WANT non-game characters? Thinking them likely is another thing, but to get upset that people want something is some pretty obnoxious gatekeeping IMO.

You call it obnoxious, I call it logical.

The problem here is that when you let in non video game characters into Smash, it destroys the whole point of it.

To you, that may sound like some fuddy-duddy telling kids to get off his lawn, but realistically, Sora is a Disney character interacting with Disney characters in a universe built around Disney properties that just happens to incorporate Final Fantasy elements.

And most people, from what I've seen here & beyond, want Sora in purely to break the barrier and let Disney characters into Smash Bros.

I mean, I don't even like playing as the anime characters in SSF2 because, to me at least, it doesn't feel "right".

You asked me 15 years ago, I would have said a LOT differently, however. The more you learn how things work, the more you begin to respect the process, and seeing people so passionate about Sora and Goku has me worried.

 

[Kirbeh]

You call it obnoxious, I call it logical.

The problem here is that when you let in non video game characters into Smash, it destroys the whole point of it.

To you, that may sound like some fuddy-duddy telling kids to get off his lawn, but realistically, Sora is a Disney character interacting with Disney characters in a universe built around Disney properties that just happens to incorporate Final Fantasy elements.

And most people, from what I've seen here & beyond, want Sora in purely to break the barrier and let Disney characters into Smash Bros.

I mean, I don't even like playing as the anime characters in SSF2 because, to me at least, it doesn't feel "right".

You asked me 15 years ago, I would have said a LOT differently, however. The more you learn how things work, the more you begin to respect the process, and seeing people so passionate about Sora and Goku has me worried.

While I'm against Disney content in Smash, Sora would be the one exception imo since he's a proper video game character. That said while I personally want him because Kingdom Hearts is one of my favorite series, I also don't want him in because of the fact he's so tied to Disney's other non-game properties.

If possible, I would like Sora and only original KH content (trophies of Organization XIII, Riku AT, Heartless in Smash Run, Yoko Shimomura's amazing compositions, etc.), but seeing how much of a core component Disney is to Kingdom Hearts, I don't see it happening that way as it'd likely upset the KH fanbase at large (and there's no way Disney wouldn't be extremely overbearing during negotiations to make such a thing worth it). As such I don't actively support Sora, and see him as more of a lose/lose pipe dream.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

For people like Diddy Kong to claim Ridley "just isn't marginable" then turn around and say Ganon is one of the only villains who has a shot for Smash makes no sense whatsoever.

If we're talking about size inconsistencies, I do know that the Dark Beast Ganon incarnation from Breath of the Wild drastically outsizes Ridley. Who's too big now!?

Anyway, Ocarina of Time Ganon could potentially work as a Final Smash fighter, as he has a humanoid appearance, and outsizes even the likes of Bowser and Giga Mac, but is not quite as tall as Giga Bowser.

 

[Roberto zampari]

TOMORROW IS THE DAY OF E3 NINTENDO!!

Speaking of Sora's Knigdom Hearts, renember when Cloud Strife was included in the Knigdom Hearts?
I feel that Sora doesn't fit for the Smash Bros Universe. I don't know why, but i believe that Kingdom Hearts is almost full of Disney Characters, and Disney is an American Company. I don't think that Sakurai would use Disney characters in a Smash game, it's like put Pinkie Pie or Phineas Flynn into Smash Bros.

Smash Bros is about japanese gaming, don't matter how, japanese gaming must be included.
Banjo Kazooie is Microsoft, impossible to be included in Smash.

Correct me if i'm wrong, is Shovel Knight japanese? Renember that some of the musics of the game are made by Manami Matsumae, who made musics for Megaman.

 

[A Distant Demon]

TOMORROW IS THE DAY OF E3 NINTENDO!!

Speaking of Sora's Knigdom Hearts, renember when Cloud Strife was included in the Knigdom Hearts?
I feel that Sora doesn't fit for the Smash Bros Universe. I don't know why, but i believe that Kingdom Hearts is almost full of Disney Characters, and Disney is an American Company. I don't think that Sakurai would use Disney characters in a Smash game, it's like put Pinkie Pie or Phineas Flynn into Smash Bros.

Smash Bros is about japanese gaming, don't matter how, japanese gaming must be included.
Banjo Kazooie is Microsoft, impossible to be included in Smash.

Correct me if i'm wrong, is Shovel Knight japanese? Renember that some of the musics of the game are made by Manami Matsumae, who made musics for Megaman.

Shovel Knight is American

Also fan rules

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Spoiler

Source: https://twitter.com/SmashBrosSpain/status/874208271409840129

Second Source: https://juegosadn.eleconomista.es/s...-switch-podria-haber-sido-filtrado-no-105942/

According to a member in the discord, they mentioned that Super Smash Bros Switch actually have EAN (which is basically a barcode) which is unusual for "placeholders."

It was up few hours ago when I checked the source however I want to research more on this matters and I noticed that they deleted the page. Now it would direct you to 404 error.

http://www.fnac.es/SSB-SWITCH-Juego...gin=TRDBLR&ptd=70431&affid=1929404&ectrans=1#

Take everything with grain of salts.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

TOMORROW IS THE DAY OF E3 NINTENDO!!

Speaking of Sora's Knigdom Hearts, renember when Cloud Strife was included in the Knigdom Hearts?
I feel that Sora doesn't fit for the Smash Bros Universe. I don't know why, but i believe that Kingdom Hearts is almost full of Disney Characters, and Disney is an American Company. I don't think that Sakurai would use Disney characters in a Smash game, it's like put Pinkie Pie or Phineas Flynn into Smash Bros.

Smash Bros is about japanese gaming, don't matter how, japanese gaming must be included.
Banjo Kazooie is Microsoft, impossible to be included in Smash.

Correct me if i'm wrong, is Shovel Knight japanese? Renember that some of the musics of the game are made by Manami Matsumae, who made musics for Megaman.

Matsumae made like, two songs for the game and Yatch Club Games, the ones who make Shovel Knight, is an American company.

Also, for the "japanese only" argument, let me say two words right now: Diddy Kong.

Who made Diddy Kong? Rare, a British company. Sure, it was for a Nintendo game, but he's still a character NOT made in Japan.

 

[N3ON]

I feel like the "they must be Japanese" rhetoric is one of the last of a dying breed of roster think that claimed we wouldn't get more than four characters to a series (even though that has happened since Melee) or that a third-party company couldn't get more than one character (even though people supported the hell out of Bomberman even with Snake included). Japan might get priority consideration, because that's how Japan works, but they're not going to exclude an otherwise entirely deserving character. Japan is insular but it's not that xenophobic. Look at Diddy Kong. It's just that there have been relatively few western characters with an obvious need for inclusion so far, especially in terms of third-parties.

Also fwiw Sora was obviously created in Japan. You don't get a character looking like that who isn't made there, lol. And sure he might be owned by Disney, but he's still clearly a video game character. Maxwell from Scribblenauts is owned by Warner Brothers, but he's not a cartoon character. I'm not saying we should expect Sora, because that'd be silly, but is he eligible? Sure. Is he western? No, though that wouldn't mean anything definitively anyway.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Matsumae made like, two songs for the game and Yatch Club Games, the ones who make Shovel Knight, is an American company.

Also, for the "japanese only" argument, let me say two words right now: Diddy Kong.

Who made Diddy Kong? Rare, a British company. Sure, it was for a Nintendo game, but he's still a character NOT made in Japan.

And it's also the reason it took them as DAMN LONG as they did.

 

[Megadoomer]

And it's also the reason it took them as DAMN LONG as they did.

Not really; it makes no sense to have more than one Donkey Kong character in the original Smash (the only series to get that treatment were Mario and Pokemon), and Donkey Kong was in a weird place in Melee's era - ownership of Rare-created characters seemed to be unclear (to the point where some Microsoft executives thought that they got Donkey Kong when they got Rare, DK Junior made it into Mario Tennis over Diddy, and Smash's trophies couldn't directly reference Perfect Dark).

Once Microsoft bought Rare and the matter of who owned what seemed to be cleared up, they seemed to be more confident in terms of being able to add Diddy to games like Smash, Mario Kart, etc.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Oh I bet Microsoft was anything but when they thought they had DK. ''YEAAAHH BABYYYYY oh wait we don't git him? aww'''

I doubt Smash shows up tomorrow mostly because of ARMS and Pokken DX, but it will come the Switch soon enough.

 

[Wolfie557]

Hades can probably be scaled down pretty easily, as we've seen Palutena both regular size and giant so it's not out of the ordinary. What probably holds Hades back more is both Medusa and Viridi are more popular and that KI is now technically a dead series. Gerninja's probably also not going anywhere thanks to it still being pretty popular, and Pokemon is iconic enough to get Decidueye on top of the pokemon already in the game. I still want Cooking Mama too though, she'd be tons of fun.

You can edit the post and take what you said out of the /QUOTE part so that it's not in the box. It just takes time to get used to the way this site works.

Hades is more popular than Medusa but Medusa has been in 2 games and shes likely to be a trap zoning character as many envision her. She and Hades are roughly as unique and both could be semi clones if lack of time (Medusa of Palutena...Hades of Ganondorf which would be much worse imo)

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If we're advocating for giant boss enemies can we get Giga Bowser?

Though even this is still too big.

 

[Opossum]

You call it obnoxious, I call it logical.

The problem here is that when you let in non video game characters into Smash, it destroys the whole point of it.

To you, that may sound like some fuddy-duddy telling kids to get off his lawn, but realistically, Sora is a Disney character interacting with Disney characters in a universe built around Disney properties that just happens to incorporate Final Fantasy elements.

And most people, from what I've seen here & beyond, want Sora in purely to break the barrier and let Disney characters into Smash Bros.

I mean, I don't even like playing as the anime characters in SSF2 because, to me at least, it doesn't feel "right".

You asked me 15 years ago, I would have said a LOT differently, however. The more you learn how things work, the more you begin to respect the process, and seeing people so passionate about Sora and Goku has me worried.

Honestly I think people who can describe people's passion about fictional characters in a video game as worrisome purely because they're not video game characters to be the bigger issue.

What is worrisome about someone wanting something, regardless of likelihood? Ridley's never getting in, are the people who still want him worrisome? People just want things they think will be fun, because that's what Smash is. A fun party game. And age has nothing to do with it, by the way. I'm in my twenties and think there are quite a few non-game characters that'd be awesome in Smash. Someone like Mickey Mouse or Captain Jack Sparrow would be amazing. You can want something while also realizing it won't happen (once again, look at the Ridley fans).

So when people act like the roster is so sacred that people shouldn't be able to want something, it comes off as pompous and arrogant.

 

[Wolfie557]

The biggest thing I don't like about the Smash fanbase is that despite spending hrs of our lives debating the same debates over and over and speculating old and new things, too many people are still too quick tp dismiss things.

Because its far easier to think of an easy logical reason which may be very valid or a good point but then it stops. People dont think much beyond scratching the surface. I've experienced this a lot when defending Bayonetta and when I was still new to this, rooting for Rosalina.

E.g she's too sexual. Reasonable point. But no thought of alternatives or limitations of that argument. E.g censoring slightly or looking at the juicy round things ZSS can easily show off no problem.

Another example. Sakurai likes guns. These guns are massive shoot big bullets, are magical and ornamental. Now to be perfect there would be a limit to this too e.g some view the guns as being realistic to some extent as thrre are ornate guns out there too.

These are now all well known and accepted arguments and I think these sort of discussions are too rare in comparison to the same shallow-level thought process to just quickly win the argument or something. Those shallow level ones are more likely to go overboard and turn into something else like direct attacks ect.

Dismissers of Ridley don't tend to scratch beyond the surface. Don't think too deeply about anything. And by now people really should have read and understood the arguments from the Ridley supporters side instead of pretending they dont exist or its the first time reading such a thing.

Also gonna say this for the 50th time: (imho) with enough time and effort any character can work very well.

That would probably make this best E3 ever.

Swap Bomberman with Rayman tho. Its just that i think I would enjoy rayman more and he was a bigger part of my childhood. Plus no limbs > infinite bombs

Just to mess with Diddy Kong, I looked for some pictures of Disney characters mixed with Smash Bros characters. Here's what I found:

http://mikevdesign.tumblr.com/post/99867085840/disneyvssmashbros

After seeing the OlafxKirby, I got triggered myself.

Pika-Stichu is the best thing I saw in months!!! :D

Ridley could be scalable, sure. But he'd not be a very balanced, and even if, he'd take way too much work. If the main director has turned him down so many times now, be sure to not see him. Other M Ridley was easily the best workable model for Smash, and you know what happened with him. He's not flying through holes and magically becoming playable any time soon, or ever.

And yes I say no to Sora. Big surprise. Cloud also makes appearances in Kingdom Hearts right? There's your Disney character right there.

Am pretty sure also that the Mii's won't be missed at all. Maybe their costumes, but we can do without. Lame character I always was against, but was forced upon us for reasons I still don't understand.

I just want some of the existing franchises, especially Nintendo's OWN bigger, famous and more popular franchises NOT NAMED MARIO to be expanded upon. These characters and their franchises made Smash, so I think it's only reasonable to have more Zelda, Kirby, Donkey Kong and Star Fox characters. Metroid, Yoshi's Island, MOTHER and F-Zero won't have much else to offer, so I accept no new character, but Zelda, Kirby, DKC and StarFox surely should get someone new. It would be pure disrespect if they are neglected yet again.

If you still don't understand why Miis are in Smash I dont know what to say... it was simply inevitable for too many reasons I'm sure you could think of some if you wanted to.

But yes I'd prefer them gone but preferbly replaced by a better version of Miis since they do have merits no other character can have unless Smash makes up its own avatars.

 

[papagenos]

I speculate that a port with Wolf, Bomberman, Inklings and K.K Rool will be revealed soon

I'd love this, only missing ice climbers, otherwise its the perfect plausible choices imo.

 

[Roberto zampari]

And Solid Snake? Kojima no response?

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

If we get a Smash for Wii U port I'm only expecting one veteran and one newcomer with most of the 3DS content added too it, and one new mode.

 

[Megadoomer]

And Solid Snake? Kojima no response?

Konami owns the Metal Gear franchise, not Kojima. Super Bomberman R seems to be a step in the right direction, but who knows if they'd have any interest in letting Snake come back to Smash?

 

[Roberto zampari]

Konami owns the Metal Gear franchise, not Kojima. Super Bomberman R seems to be a step in the right direction, but who knows if they'd have any interest in letting Snake come back to Smash?

But who's in the charge of the Metal Gear? I mean, the producer...

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Is it really a problem for people to WANT non-game characters? Thinking them likely is another thing, but to get upset that people want something is some pretty obnoxious gatekeeping IMO.

The idea of of Goku and Shrek in Smash is pretty dumb. I mean, nobody is asking for them in MvCI as guest characters because people accept they don't make sense there so why should Smash be any different? People have the right to ask for those characters, but people also have the right to freely criticize those characters as being dumb requests. I mean, people are hating on the roster for a free Smash fan game just because it includes a couple of anime characters.

 

[papagenos]

If we get a Smash for Wii U port I'm only expecting one veteran and one newcomer with most of the 3DS content added too it, and one new mode.

I'm not getting my hopes up but I think anywhere from 1-5 is completely plausible. I can't imagine any more than that and expecting 3 for some reason, maybe because they always reveal 3 characters at E3 when they reveal smash characters? I dunno. it just feels right.

I could totally see them revealing 3 at E3 and keeping one secret so we all hype like crazy until the game comes out.

of course we could also get shown nothing at all so whatever i just like getting myself excited for smash news haha

 

[Schnee117]

The idea of of Goku and Shrek in Smash is pretty dumb. I mean, nobody is asking for them in MvCI as guest characters because people accept they don't make sense there so why should Smash be any different.

No one asks for them in Marvel vs Capcom because the title of the series is Marvel vs Capcom

Super Smash Bros doesn't have a title like that at all.

 

[Opossum]

The idea of of Goku and Shrek in Smash is pretty dumb. I mean, nobody is asking for them in MvCI as guest characters because people accept they don't make sense there so why should Smash be any different.

Even if the idea is dumb, no one is hurt by someone wanting something like this. That's my point.

People act like it's literally a crime to want something in Smash, and that's hilariously dumb. No one benefits from being angry over it. No one gets hurt by accepting it.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

No one asks for them in Marvel vs Capcom because the title of the series is Marvel vs Capcom

Super Smash Bros doesn't have a title like that at all.

Oh yeah, the title makes such a huge and totally not arbitrary difference! Of course!

Spoiler

Oh well, seeing as it is just a simple video game crossover that doesn't have a title centered around Nintendo or anything like Marvel vs Capcom, time to request Will Smith, Sailor Moon, Shaquille O' Neal, Elsa, Piccolo, Gaston and Mr. Incredible!

Even if the idea is dumb, no one is hurt by someone wanting something like this. That's my point.

People act like it's literally a crime to want something in Smash, and that's hilariously dumb. No one benefits from being angry over it. No one gets hurt by accepting it.

But it is against the law of SmashBoards to request a non-video game character. Heck, do you wanna know the punishment for requesting pretty much any character not popular on these boards , let alone a 7th FE character?!?

 

[Schnee117]

Oh yeah, the title makes such a huge and totally not arbitrary difference! Of course!

Spoiler

Oh well, seeing as it is just a simple video game crossover that doesn't have a title centered around Nintendo or anything like Marvel vs Capcom, time to request Will Smith, Sailor Moon, Shaquille O' Neal, Elsa, Piccolo, Gaston and Mr. Incredible!

You grossly underestimate how misinformed and simple people can be so you can cut the sarcastic bull****.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

You grossly underestimate how misinformed and simple people can be so you can cut the sarcastic bull****.

That sarcasm wasn't aimed at you though. If you felt offended, I'm sorry.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Smash Bros is about video game characters, not anime/cartoon characters.
Enough said...

If they include anime/cartoon characters in smash bros, then...

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Heeey, we can have non-videogames and still be Nintendoy! Captain N, and Nester from Nintedno Power!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If we're advocating for giant boss enemies can we get Giga Bowser?

Though even this is still too big.

To be very fair, Giga Bowser would still outsize Bowser if he was standing up straight.

Now, if memory serves me right, in Brawl, Bowser does come close to rivaling Giga Bowser's size if his size is set to around 2.6875x, if not a bit higher.

Spoiler

 

[Radical Bones]

Heeey, we can have non-videogames and still be Nintendoy! Captain N, and Nester from Nintedno Power!

Teeechnically R.O.B isn't a video game character, right? He's an accessory.



(TO MURDER)

 

[Arcadenik]

Heeey, we can have non-videogames and still be Nintendoy! Captain N, and Nester from Nintedno Power!

That's how I feel too.

As long as Nintendo owns the rights to (insert non-video game character), they should still be eligible.

 

[papagenos]

I gave up on smash having "rules" to who can get in or not. I used to try and predict who we might get by looking at whats happened in the past and what sakurai has said in the past and trying to make some parameters around that and cut out any characters who didn't fall into place with these "rules". but time and time again it didn't matter and characters got in I thought couldn't cause of reason A,B, and C... so now i just don't try and have "rules" against who can get in and who can't.

I still like predicting characters and if you're going to make a prediction theres really nothing else you can do (barring trying to weigh the legitimacy of leaks and such) except make a hypothesis based on whats been the "rules" in the past and hoping Sakurai feels the same way... but theres never a sure thing for or against a character no matter how much "prediction math" you throw at it.

That said, I'm very for keeping smash "video game" characters only but of course the closer to being a nintendo or gaming character the more "ok" i am with the choice, and who knows If the stars align for some character and the circumstances work in Sakurais mind... we could get anybody.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

With the whole Sora argument, I couldn't care less if Mickey, Donald, or Goofy show up at all. I don't want Disney characters in Smash ala Cinderella or Stitch, etc. I just think Sora would make an excellent addition to the roster. The move set is there for sure. He is owned by Disney/Square Enix, but regardless he originates from a video game.

Will he ever make it in? Unlikely, but it'd be sweet if he did.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean, nobody is asking for them in MvCI as guest characters because people accept they don't make sense there so why should Smash be any different?

False equivalency. Especially since there are multiple examples of fighting games that have done "guests that don't make sense" that you conveniently ignore.

The reason why nobody asks for "characters like Goku or Shrek" in Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite is because they aren't characters from either Marvel or Capcom and the series simply doesn't do guest fighters to begin with.

The reason why people ask for those kind of characters in Smash (aside from the fact that one of them is literally just a meme that achieved its goal in becoming widespread and notorious to where people like you take it seriously) is because Brawl has since broken the "Nintendo only" aspect of Smash and opened the floodgates for possible fighters that would be considered pipe dreams to some, with Smash 4 only adding fuel to the fire with characters like Cloud. And with a wide variety of players of different backgrounds that play Smash for different reasons, there is a wide variety of wants and requests with variable degrees of sensibility that come with it, even within Nintendo characters.

So if people want to see characters from outside media joining Smash, all the power to them. Just as long as they understand they won't be actually seeing it happen until Sakurai/whoever gives any legitimate reason to believe otherwise.

 

[FunAtParties]

The biggest thing I don't like about the Smash fanbase is that despite spending hrs of our lives debating the same debates over and over and speculating old and new things, too many people are still too quick tp dismiss things.

Because its far easier to think of an easy logical reason which may be very valid or a good point but then it stops. People dont think much beyond scratching the surface. I've experienced this a lot when defending Bayonetta and when I was still new to this, rooting for Rosalina.

E.g she's too sexual. Reasonable point. But no thought of alternatives or limitations of that argument. E.g censoring slightly or looking at the juicy round things ZSS can easily show off no problem.

Another example. Sakurai likes guns. These guns are massive shoot big bullets, are magical and ornamental. Now to be perfect there would be a limit to this too e.g some view the guns as being realistic to some extent as thrre are ornate guns out there too.

These are now all well known and accepted arguments and I think these sort of discussions are too rare in comparison to the same shallow-level thought process to just quickly win the argument or something. Those shallow level ones are more likely to go overboard and turn into something else like direct attacks ect.

Dismissers of Ridley don't tend to scratch beyond the surface. Don't think too deeply about anything. And by now people really should have read and understood the arguments from the Ridley supporters side instead of pretending they dont exist or its the first time reading such a thing.

Also gonna say this for the 50th time: (imho) with enough time and effort any character can work very well.

Swap Bomberman with Rayman tho. Its just that i think I would enjoy rayman more and he was a bigger part of my childhood. Plus no limbs > infinite bombs

Pika-Stichu is the best thing I saw in months!!! :D

If you still don't understand why Miis are in Smash I dont know what to say... it was simply inevitable for too many reasons I'm sure you could think of some if you wanted to.

But yes I'd prefer them gone but preferbly replaced by a better version of Miis since they do have merits no other character can have unless Smash makes up its own avatars.

I hear what you're saying, there's a lot of characters I don't want in Smash, but saying they can't work is just flimsy reasoning. I definitely agree with you that any character can work with the proper care.

At the same time I can understand where Sakurai is coming from with Ridley. I believe that he thinks that the changes needed to make Ridley work in Smash would sacrifice an important part of his character, which is why he doesnt want to do it. Like I said, i think its understandable from that perspective, but I think that with all the changes that aren't true to the characters in Smash (for example his own character Kirby should have infinite jumps and should get more than one attack off his copy ability, but can't because that would be broken) he should lighten up a bit on Ridley.