Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Radical Bones]

Normally I'd agree with you but since we're talking about Mario, Pac-Man and Mickey Mouse in one game I really don't give a flying **** about "purism"

Haha fair enough my friend!

As Verde Coeden Scalesworth said, they'd be fine as trophies, and I guess I wouldn't be toooottaly against Goofy running around as an AT.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I can deal with non-video game characters being Trophies as long as the series they're from has a playable character. If Sora were to get in, Trophies sound great for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. Add in Goofy too, imo. I don't think they should be playable, though. I agree with the "3rd parties should originate in a video game" rule Sakurai created. It feels like it actually puts a key point on the game's series' purpose, to be the best video game character crossover ever. This is also why he feels characters who don't have heavy tied with Nintendo work well if they're iconic(Cloud is a major example of this, if not the ur example).

Oh yes, I don't believe they should ever be playable, but I'd be very content with trophies as well, even though Assist Trophies or Mii Costumes would be the best outcomea

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh yes, I don't believe they should ever be playable, but I'd be very content with trophies as well, even though Assist Trophies or Mii Costumes would be the best outcomea

I got no issue with that either. Just playable is where I don't think they should be. Mii Costumes is right between that and playable, but Sakurai even noted that Miis were to be used so you could play as characters that would never be playable in Smash, so... I mean, that's why he showed them off using real life people designs. I think that's kind of neat.

...I still wish we got a Ridley costume. >.>

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ridley just isn't marginable. The only true villains and heavy weights that have a shot are K.Rool and Ganon. Hoping they'll add them, as I feel there are way too many light weight characters as is.

Also leave Disney out please. And just about anything 4th party. Preferably 3rd party to, but that's too late now.

I seriously hope they will just axe the Mii Fighters, cause they are just extremely dull, and take up way too much development time. Just **** them. I literally foretold that adding them would be a bad idea, they got in, everyone thinks they're lame- and we all realise we could've gotten at least 2 different characters for them. So why keep them around? They're easily the least popular characters on the roster.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think the intended effect of "Lol I can beat up Bowser with X character" can be achieved just as well with just Brawler.
Little need for having three characters just for that novelty.

 

[FunAtParties]

Ridley just isn't marginable. The only true villains and heavy weights that have a shot are K.Rool and Ganon. Hoping they'll add them, as I feel there are way too many light weight characters as is.

Also leave Disney out please. And just about anything 4th party. Preferably 3rd party to, but that's too late now.

I seriously hope they will just axe the Mii Fighters, cause they are just extremely dull, and take up way too much development time. Just **** them. I literally foretold that adding them would be a bad idea, they got in, everyone thinks they're lame- and we all realise we could've gotten at least 2 different characters for them. So why keep them around? They're easily the least popular characters on the roster.

I have mixed feelings on this comment lol.

-Marginable? Do you mean scalable? I don't agree, I think he could fit, and I don't think he even needs to be light-weight to be balanced like everyone says.

-Sora's a Disney character, would you say no to that? With your comments on 3rd parties I think you would, but still it's not as bad as Mickey right?

-A lot of people like Mii's, I don't, but saying everyone thinks they're lame is kind of inaccurate. I'm with you that I'd like to see them cut, or at least reduced, or at the very least NOT expanded upon, but I doubt many will go with us on that.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Why would you say yes to Sora for any other reason than Donald Duck?

 

[FunAtParties]

Why would you say yes to Sora for any other reason than Donald Duck?

Is that not enough?

 

[Ohpal]

I speculate that a port with Wolf, Bomberman, Inklings and K.K Rool will be revealed soon

 

[FunAtParties]

I speculate that a port with Wolf, Bomberman, Inklings and K.K Rool will be revealed soon

That would probably make this best E3 ever.

 

[DarkShadow20]

I speculate that a port with Wolf, Bomberman, Inklings and K.K Rool will be revealed soon

Is this a leak or really just speculation? Because that would be awesome!

I only ask because you just registered today right before E3 and that's rather specific speculation.

 

[FunAtParties]

Just to mess with Diddy Kong, I looked for some pictures of Disney characters mixed with Smash Bros characters. Here's what I found:

http://mikevdesign.tumblr.com/post/99867085840/disneyvssmashbros

After seeing the OlafxKirby, I got triggered myself.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If we get a Smash 4 Switch, I hope we get a decent number of excellent additions.

 

[UserKev]

leave Disney out please.

Yes!

Keep everything Disney AWAY! from Smash. They'd destroy it beyond repair with one finger alone.

 

[Deleted member]

For the love of God, NO Disney characters!!!

No Dragon Ball characters, no cartoon characters, no Star Wars characters...

That sounds cool when you're a preteen but when you start looking at the logistics, it makes your head hurt at the enthusiasm some people have about shoehorning characters that did not originate from a video game.

But that's my two cents.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I have mixed feelings on this comment lol.

-Marginable? Do you mean scalable? I don't agree, I think he could fit, and I don't think he even needs to be light-weight to be balanced like everyone says.

-Sora's a Disney character, would you say no to that? With your comments on 3rd parties I think you would, but still it's not as bad as Mickey right?

-A lot of people like Mii's, I don't, but saying everyone thinks they're lame is kind of inaccurate. I'm with you that I'd like to see them cut, or at least reduced, or at the very least NOT expanded upon, but I doubt many will go with us on that.

Ridley could be scalable, sure. But he'd not be a very balanced, and even if, he'd take way too much work. If the main director has turned him down so many times now, be sure to not see him. Other M Ridley was easily the best workable model for Smash, and you know what happened with him. He's not flying through holes and magically becoming playable any time soon, or ever.

And yes I say no to Sora. Big surprise. Cloud also makes appearances in Kingdom Hearts right? There's your Disney character right there.

Am pretty sure also that the Mii's won't be missed at all. Maybe their costumes, but we can do without. Lame character I always was against, but was forced upon us for reasons I still don't understand.

I just want some of the existing franchises, especially Nintendo's OWN bigger, famous and more popular franchises NOT NAMED MARIO to be expanded upon. These characters and their franchises made Smash, so I think it's only reasonable to have more Zelda, Kirby, Donkey Kong and Star Fox characters. Metroid, Yoshi's Island, MOTHER and F-Zero won't have much else to offer, so I accept no new character, but Zelda, Kirby, DKC and StarFox surely should get someone new. It would be pure disrespect if they are neglected yet again.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I speculate that a port with Wolf, Bomberman, Inklings and K.K Rool will be revealed soon

Please next time say ; "My unlikely prediction : Wolf, Bomberman, Inklings, King K. Rool, Snake, Ice Climbers."

 

[Deleted member]

have a shot

Ganon

You're better off sticking with Impa.

 

[Luminario]

You're better off sticking with Impa.

These past few pages you've seemed awfully hostile about the idea of playable pig Ganon. Why is that?

 

[MrNantendo]

Time for the next MicroSmashBallot and today it is all about the Game Boy

https://twitter.com/MrNantendo/status/874278605026676737

 

[Deleted member]

These past few pages you've seemed awfully hostile about the idea of playable pig Ganon. Why is that?

Because it's a stupid concept based on heavily flawed logic that people are somehow completely oblivious to the absurdity of both the idea and the logic behind it or they just don't care.

-We have two incarnations of Link and Zelda? Durr, we gotta have one of Ganon too!
-What's that? Ganon is already in the game as Ganondorf's Final Smash? No no no, that's "Beast Ganon"! That doesn't count! "Regular" Ganon from the old days is still an option!
-What's that? Ganon is a huge ****in' monster that has the same size issues as Ridley did? Nah man, he legit when slightly bigger than his Ganondorf counterpart! Just look! -gives bad example-

 

[Opossum]

For the love of God, NO Disney characters!!!

No Dragon Ball characters, no cartoon characters, no Star Wars characters...

That sounds cool when you're a preteen but when you start looking at the logistics, it makes your head hurt at the enthusiasm some people have about shoehorning characters that did not originate from a video game.

But that's my two cents.

Is it really a problem for people to WANT non-game characters? Thinking them likely is another thing, but to get upset that people want something is some pretty obnoxious gatekeeping IMO.

 

[Luminario]

Because it's a stupid concept based on heavily flawed logic that people are somehow completely oblivious to the absurdity of both the idea and the logic behind it or they just don't care.

But why is it absurd logic? Pig Ganon has appeared in multiple games and shown off multiple unique abilities. We have multiple instances of the same character having different movesets too. So far Pig Ganon is the only other consistent Zelda character that has appeared in the most games (that I can think of anyway). Why is it so bad that people want him in the game like this for these reasons?
EDIT: I don't see why pig Ganon and Dorf's FS can't co-exist, especially if they're visually distinct.
Pig Ganon also doesn't really have size issues, as he can just be scaled down a bit.

 

[Deleted member]

But why is it absurd logic? Pig Ganon has appeared in multiple games and shown off multiple unique abilities. We have multiple instances of the same character having different movesets too. So far Pig Gagnon is the only other consistent Zelda character that has appeared in the most games (that I can think of anyway). Why is it so bad that people want him in the game like this for these reasons?

The fact you're questioning me about the flawed logic using "appeared in multiple games and has unique abilities" and "we have instances of the same character with different moveset" as counterpoints shows you have absolutely no idea what logic I'm even talking about.

 

[Luminario]

The fact you're questioning me about the flawed logic using "appeared in multiple games and has unique abilities" and "we have instances of the same character with different moveset" as counterpoints shows you have absolutely no idea what logic I'm even talking about.

You're right, I don't, please explain why it's so bad. I actually don't understand your hostility towards even the concept of pig Ganon.

 

[Deleted member]

You're right, I don't, please explain why it's so bad. I actually don't understand your hostility towards even the concept of pig Ganon.

-We have two incarnations of Link and Zelda? Durr, we gotta have one of Ganon too!
-What's that? Ganon is already in the game as Ganondorf's Final Smash? No no no, that's "Beast Ganon"! That doesn't count! "Regular" Ganon from the old days is still an option!
-What's that? Ganon is a huge ****in' monster that has the same size issues as Ridley did? Nah man, he legit when slightly bigger than his Ganondorf counterpart! Just look! -gives bad example-

For people like Diddy Kong to claim Ridley "just isn't marginable" then turn around and say Ganon is one of the only villains who has a shot for Smash makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I do think Impa is indeed more likely, but just because she's easily far more marginable.

Yes Ganon has size issues. But not like Ridley, cause Ganon is all around very heavily build. He's an obvious heavy weight, with simple yet effective tools that make him easy to envision in Smash. Leaving invincibility and teleports out, he's got the potential to be a super heavy weight (heavier than Bowser) with his trident and magical attacks.

Now compare that with a skinny yet giant intergalactic dragon with a long ass spear tail mostly reknown for his brutal grappling attacks. That seems far harder to balance to me just in design alone.

Just because both characters are big, doesn't mean that they have the same issues going on. K.Rool and Ganon are pretty comparable in this regard. In canon, they are about Ridley's size. But their BUILD makes it far easier for them to be scaled down, as they'd still be menacing and intimidating scaled down. Ridley? He'd just be a taller and skinnier Charizard... That's what I think Sakurai mostly meant with Ridley being out of character when scaled down.

Also regarding Ganon's chances, no it's not cause we have two Links and two Zeldas, more so that he's the actual main villain of the series and has appeared in a lot of games since late. Ganondorf is hardly used anymore, but Ganon is. Also, there's a lot of abilities Ganon could have that never made it into Ganondorf's move set due to the King of Evil's lifelong dedication to copying Captain Falcon. So that's a thing. Am. It saying he's super likely, but he's workable at least. And Nintendo is quickly running out of potential super heavy weights.

I do really endear your Impa comment though, she's pretty likely after all huh?

 

[Schnee117]

He'd just be a taller and skinnier Charizard.

Do people seriously still say this?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Do people seriously still say this?

Yes.

Because it's the truth.

A scaled down Ridley isn't half as intimidating.

 

[Schnee117]

Because it's the truth.

Oh I love it when people delude themselves into thinking they're telling the truth.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A (relatively) tiny Ridley is like a tiny Godzilla.

It tries to be intimidating, but fails to be anything but adorable

 

[Diddy Kong]

A (relatively) tiny Ridley is like a tiny Godzilla.

It tries to be intimidating, but fails to be anything but adorable

 

[A Distant Demon]

Saying a character can't be added for game balance reasons means fundamentally not understanding how game balance works

If a character is imbalanced, you adjust numbers and moves until it isn't. It isn't like this is an RPG or a simulator where power levels need to be accurate.

 

[Luminario]

Where's that Miitomo screenshot a ton of pages back that showed off a chibi Ridley? We gotta get that version in Smash he looked like he'd act like an angry purple chicken.

 

[Curious Villager]

If it comes to a new Smash game, I can't see why Ganondorf's Final Smash can't just be changed to something else, it's not like Pit's Brawl Final Smash held back Palutena in Smash 4 and it's not like Ganondorf doesn't have anything else to use for a Final Smash.

Spoiler

*cough*His evil steed*cough*

I find it quite odd why this fandom always asks for more villain and/or heavy weight characters but continuously shoot down any suggestions that aren't the usual Ridley, K.Rool and Wolf because "lol Too Big".

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Where's that Miitomo screenshot a ton of pages back that showed off a chibi Ridley? We gotta get that version in Smash he looked like he'd act like an angry purple chicken.

Not sure if it's the same screenshot, but...

This is way too adorable~ He'd be top tier for cuteness

 

[Luminario]

Not sure if it's the same screenshot, but...

This is way too adorable~ He'd be top tier for cuteness

Precisely that Ridley. He looks like he'd screech about galactic domination as he bites at your ankles.

 

[Deleted member]

Ridley had a more bulkier build in Other M.

So no, it's not the fact he's "skinny yet giant" that's the issue.
Nor is it the idea that he's not "intimidating" at a smaller size.

Because BaganSmashBros. old version of his Ridley mod for Brawl is plenty intimidating.

The problem with Ridley (namely the Other M model since that would have been the Ridley focused on for Smash 4) that BaganSmashBros.' mod unintentionally draws attention to is that the design requires several noticeable and drastic tweaks in order to even remotely function on a basic level as a playable fighter. (And even then, there's still something....off about how it functions.)
To the point it isn't reflective of the source material, which is what Sakurai wanted to avoid.

I'm not saying the mod doesn't show Ridley can be made into a fighter, but when I look at that Ridley, I don't see Ridley (as in, who he is in the Metroid series). I see some new creature that kinda resembles Ridley (doesn't help that there were some major aesthetic tweaks that weren't for gameplay purposes on top of it).


The current mod of Bagan's that uses the Brawl design however, looks more "natural", even at the smaller size than the boss.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Saying a character can't be added for game balance reasons means fundamentally not understanding how game balance works

If a character is imbalanced, you adjust numbers and moves until it isn't. It isn't like this is an RPG or a simulator where power levels need to be accurate.

What if the whole character's size distribution is the whole problem? Ridley is meant to be strong, intimidating, has a huge ass tail as his signature attack thus Falchion x 3 range, and due to his wings he should also be good with aerial combat and he's a huge target thanks to his build. While not necessary being heavily build. So he could have the Mewtwo syndrome (before the buffs) of being big but light, which was never a good combination. Or he'd just be the game's punching bag if he's anything heavier, cause there's not much they can do about his stance, or the size of his wings and tail.

Compare that to K.Rool and Ganon if you will. They are just fat but insanely strong animals. A big fat crocodile an a big fat pig.

Maybe logic just doesn't work cause you both seem to be reacting emotionally. Which gives away that you'd both not be willing to listen to anything that contradicts what you personally want and expect to happen.

 

[Arcadenik]

If pig Ganon ever gets in Smash, I hope someone would hack the game to give Ganon Wizpig skin.