Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Sid-cada]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. I said it doesn't make sense to use a less recognizable version of a character as apposed to the more recognizable universal standard form of a character. You know, the one that has a greater history and more appearances in games. The one that actually earned his place.

Honestly, the reason I think many Toad supporters are going for Captain Toad is that, simply put, they don't think that regular, plain ol' Toad has a real chance.

Because the main toad has been regulated to Princess Peach's Neutral B for ages now, many folks are starting to think that the main Toad can't get in, or has diminished chances at least, because of this.

Captain Toad, meanwhile, has a loophole in that he is technically a different character with a distinct appearance that doesn't suffer the same fate. So, many folks are putting their eggs in his basket, hoping that he's good enough to get in.

 

[Arcadenik]

.....you're not talking about that fanpoll VGTribune did for Smash 4 back in 2012 where Dunsparce was a highly voted gag option, are you?

Oh my god... I remember that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wasn't that 2014 poll also actually rigged? Even with a gag option, well...

As for Toad, well, there's multiple distinct ones. The main Toad(the issue is they do little beyond a color change to help tell him apart from others), Toadsworth, Toadette, and Captain Toad. This is not counting the various rpg's either. Even if they're made of Paper, they still have a more specific design.

That said, I'm for either the main Toad or Captain Toad myself. Finding how they can fight isn't that ridiculously hard. But I do agree that they don't have a huge set of unique abilities to draw from, at least regular Toad doesn't. Captain Toad definitely has more, as shown in his game.

 

[Johnknight1]

The last 2 or 3 years have been fantastic for fighting games.

And usually we get 2 good reveals in a row.

After Dragon Ball FighterZ just absolutely melted my mind with what I wanted and what we NEEDED from a Dragon Ball fighting game (although I was sad it was only a 90 second trailer after 6 minutes of that stupid zombie game during Microsoft's conference), I am hopeful Smash 4 on the Switch at E3 could do the same thing.

Give us most of what we want fixed in Smash 4 and so much more hype. Combining mobile and home consoles with even more horsepower behind it, all the features, all the stages, keeping intact the huge roster and music collection, adding features, maybe adding stages and characters...

...after THE IMPOSSIBLE DREAM was realized for Dragon Ball Z getting a legit (Marvel) fighting game that is made by a legit fighting game developer team, I think it is safe TO DREAM for Smash 4 on the Switch.

After all...

 

[Delzethin]

It's also worth mentioning that if Captain Toad got in, they could work Toadette in as an alt for him.

 

[Johnknight1]

I really wish I understood why the hell people think Captain Toad is the best representation of Toad.

The only reason I would want Captain Toad is for the bullcrap premise I came up with of a character that can't jump (sans their up B) and relies heavily on ground play...

...mostly just for the hilarity of it. Additionally Captain Toad could have Godlike aerial attacks for more hilarity, so you might have to be careful when you launch him in the air.

There is a lot of potential in such an outlandish idea, and it is very fitting to the character that is Captain Toad.

It is something we haven't seen in Smash Bros yet, but at the same time, it is still just my bullcrap character theorycrafting I spent no time thinking up!

Edit: Only thing interesting I can think of for a general playable Toad relying on canon material and general Smash game sense is giving him lots of movement speed and power (just like Mario 2) but like no hops.

Worth noting that the other 3 playable characters in Mario 2 all have stats and abilities that directly reference Mario 2 in Smash Bros (those characters being Mario, Luigi and Peach obviously).

 

[APC99]

I feel like Toad functions best as a hit-and-run who's super speedy with poor aerial mobility, so sticking to the ground is your best bet. Kind of like Little Mac, but less polarizing and with more ways to cover space. Not the hardest hitter, or the fastest on ground, but a little bit above average. I'm not sure what specials would complement this best, but I originally thought of giving him moves based off of the power-ups he's so often portrayed dealing to Mario. Throwing Poison Mushrooms, being able to carry things around a la Super Mario Bros. 2, etc.

It's also worth mentioning that if Captain Toad got in, they could work Toadette in as an alt for him.

I feel like Toadette could work as an alternate costume for Toad, regardless if he's wearing the Captain's clothes or not.

(Also I'm a big fan of your moveset videos, they've helped me work on my own character kits and figure out how to better design fighters movesets. Irrelevant to the subject but I felt like sucking up )

 

[Luminario]

It's also worth mentioning that if Captain Toad got in, they could work Toadette in as an alt for him.

I'd be pretty disappointed if Toadette didn't get in with any version of Toad. She's popular and should be super easy to implement.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The only problem with Captain Toad is that he's incapable of jumping. Of course, that is a rather moot point at the end of the story.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Toad is an actual character, I want him to have the same counter than Peach's neutral B, just for the lolz

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

If Toad is an actual character, I want him to have the same counter than Peach's neutral B, just for the lolz

Only if he pulls out a Toad dressed like Peach will I accept this.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Only if he pulls out a Toad dressed like Peach will I accept this.

EVEN BETTER

 

[Johnknight1]

Only if he pulls out a Toad dressed like Peach will I accept this.

It should be Toadsworth dressed up as Peach.

Same necklace, same (way too long) dress, same crown, same heels, same EVERYTHING!!!

 

[Delzethin]

The only problem with Captain Toad is that he's incapable of jumping. Of course, that is a rather moot point at the end of the story.

Well, for what it's worth, that inability to jump is more to set up his game's nature as a puzzle platformer than anything. And we've seen characters suddenly gain the ability to jump in Smash before--after all, only two incarnations of Link are able to jump on command in their games without running off a ledge or using a special item.

Were Captain Toad to get into Smash, he'd be able to jump, but his jumps would probably be among the worst to still put an emphasis on his ground game.

 

[Deleted member]

It should be noted that there's a difference between "doesn't have button command to jump" and "literally can't jump".

Captain Toad is in the latter category. He has the command to jump, but all it does is have him futilely attempt to do so.

 

[Radical Bones]

Maybe Captain Toad could have a unique attribute where the more he gets hit, the quicker he moves and higher he jumps as more and more gets knocked out of his bag.

Sakurai loves gimmicks like that haha

Edit: *like Lucario but with movement attribites rather than damage and knock back.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Maybe Captain Toad could have a unique attribute where the more he gets hit, the quicker he moves and higher he jumps as more and more gets knocked out of his bag.

Sakurai loves gimmicks like that haha

Edit: *like Lucario but with movement attribites rather than damage and knock back.

So he'd end up having crazy mobility with an empty bag, just like a regular Toad...

That sounds amazing.

 

[splat]

The only problem with Captain Toad is that he's incapable of jumping. Of course, that is a rather moot point at the end of the story.

I'd love it if they'd incorporate this in his moveset somehow. I can envision him emptying out his backpack by using down B, causing him to gain the ability to jump (that is the canon reason why he can't jump, right?) but making him lose a bunch of weight and power for his smash attacks (which would be him swinging the backpack about) and allowing him to stock his pack back up using down b again, reversing the effects.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Epic fail, dude.

People still say "epic fail" not ironically? Holy ****!

Bandana Dee appears in like every Kirby game as a main character. And his official name is "Waddle Dee".

It's not some persona of Waddle Dee. It's just a piece of clothing used to identify him as a separate character. But even then, I don't think that's a good enough excuse for him to be a newcomer.

Maybe it's because I'm really tired right now, but you're not making any sense to me.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

If Kirby were to get another rep, which I don't think it needs, but wouldn't hurt it, it could/would/should be Galacta Knight.

And no. He would not be a Meta Knight clone. A semi clone maybe, but he has enough to make him unique.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Kirby were to get another rep, which I don't think it needs, but wouldn't hurt it, it could/would/should be Galacta Knight.

And no. He would not be a Meta Knight clone. A semi clone maybe, but he has enough to make him unique.

As cool as he may be, Galacta Knight is just a bonus boss that appeared in like, three games.

Bandana Dee is far more iconic, imo.

That is, of course, assuming Kirby gets a fourth rep, which isn't necessary since the three we have are basically the characters every person who ever played a Kirby game has seen.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

And no. He would not be a Meta Knight clone. A semi clone maybe, but he has enough to make him unique.

So do all the clones and semi clones that are already in Smash.

 

[Zerp]

If Kirby were to get another rep, which I don't think it needs, but wouldn't hurt it, it could/would/should be Galacta Knight.

I'm confused, what is it that you're seeing that would make the devs pick him over Bandana Dee or Dark Matter (arguably Magolor as well) who are both much bigger deals than he is? You could argue they're not important enough to need inclusion in Smash but they're both more important than Galacta Knight and can be just as unique as him, why should he get in before them if he's not going to be a low-effort clone?

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

So do all the clones and semi clones that are already in Smash.

You make a good point.

I'm confused, what is it that you're seeing that would make the devs pick him over Bandana Dee or Dark Matter (arguably Magolor as well) who are both much bigger deals than he is? You could argue they're not important enough to need inclusion in Smash but they're both more important than Galacta Knight and can be just as unique as him, why should he get in before them if he's not going to be a low-effort clone?

I just see him over the others. I'll agree Bandana Dee is on par with him. My apologizes.

I think Galacta Knight would be really cool is all.

Personally, I don't think Kirby needs anymore reps.

 

[splat]

I'm confused, what is it that you're seeing that would make the devs pick him over Bandana Dee or Dark Matter (arguably Magolor as well) who are both much bigger deals than he is? You could argue they're not important enough to need inclusion in Smash but they're both more important than Galacta Knight and can be just as unique as him, why should he get in before them if he's not going to be a low-effort clone?

I'd even argue Rick would be a better inclusion than Galacta Knight.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I'd even argue Rick would be a better inclusion than Galacta Knight.

Oh my God, that'd be adorable.

 

[Johnknight1]

All this hostile Kirby character talk, and all I want is positive hype, hopes and hypothesis.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

All this hostile Kirby character talk, and all I want is positive hype, hopes and hypothesis.

I know right? Same here. It's okay to disagree, but be civil. I'm not saying that by a character I want to be, that others shouldn't.

It's whatever. I just love Smash.

 

[Johnknight1]

I know right? Same here. It's okay to disagree, but be civil. I'm not saying that by a character I want to be, that others shouldn't.

It's whatever. I just love Smash.

Wish there was a "love" button next to the like button so I could click that one too.

Preferences are fine and opinions are fine everyone, just be civil about it. Being "right" isn't worth it if it requires hostility.

If you guys want to passionately rally behind hate, at least make it something good like how awful Batman v. Superman is, or how we haven't gotten a Gen 4 Pokémon remake for the Switch announced yet, or even worse... how Breath of the Wild actual ends and doesn't have a never ending adventure that you can't escape from being absorbed into!

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Wish there was a "love" button next to the like button so I could click that one too.

Preferences are fine and opinions are fine everyone, just be civil about it. Being "right" isn't worth it if it requires hostility.

If you guys want to passionately rally behind hate, at least make it something good like how awful Batman v. Superman is, or how we haven't gotten a Gen 4 Pokémon remake for the Switch announced yet, or even worse... how Breath of the Wild actual ends and doesn't have a never ending adventure that you can't escape from being absorbed into!

Exactly! Like I don't see how characters like Daisy, Waluigi, or Goku even get brought up to be added to the roster, but that doesn't mean others can't.

Do you know some characters I'd personally love? Cooking Mama, Sora (Kingdom Hearts), Hades (Kid Icarus), and I'd lose my mind if they added Decidueye.

Oh my God, I'd love, love, love, Diamond and Pearl remakes for Switch. Give me that HD Sinnoh.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If we're talking about wants...

Put the whole cast of Ace Attorney in Smash Bros.

All of them. Every last one.

I'd buy it.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Sora would be the only possible way to get Donald flipping Duck and Mickey bloody Mouse in Smash Bros. so I don't see why people don't support him.
I don't even like the character himself, but Donald Duck transcends (new favorite word, thanks John) regular Smash speculation.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Sora would be the only possible way to get Donald flipping Duck and Mickey bloody Mouse in Smash Bros. so I don't see why people don't support him.
I don't even like the character himself, but Donald Duck transcends (new favorite word, thanks John) regular Smash speculation.

I don't even particularly think they'd be part of his move set! I see them as Trophies at best.

Even with Sora's Final Smash, I see two options.
1. Final Form (obviously)
Or
2. That attack from Dream Drop Distance where Sora and Riku's keyblades fuse.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I don't even particularly think they'd be part of his move set! I see them as Trophies at best.

Even with Sora's Final Smash, I see two options.
1. Final Form (obviously)
Or
2. That attack from Dream Drop Distance where Sora and Riku's keyblades fuse.

I'd take them as just Trophies.
Or Mii Costumes, if those return.

 

[Yura]

I can understand why you would want to see some of these characters but the only thing that I see that could be a problem is that Hades is bigger than Ridley and I don't see them putting him in at that point because they won't put in Ridley which would be a fun character. Though other characters even if I wouldn't like them being in, like Cooking Mama and Sora if they made it in, I would still deal with them easily because they are wanted. Though I would be fine if they added Decidueye however I would prefer Pichu to be back, though it would make sense if they got rid of Greninja to add Decidueye even if it ruins the purpose that people are seeing as a perfect character to have with Greninja and Charizard.

I don't know why my reply was in a quote box.

 

[Luminario]

I can understand why you would want to see some of these characters but the only thing that I see that could be a problem is that Hades is bigger than Ridley and I don't see them putting him in at that point because they won't put in Ridley which would be a fun character. Though other characters even if I wouldn't like them being in, like Cooking Mama and Sora if they made it in, I would still deal with them easily because they are wanted. Though I would be fine if they added Decidueye however I would prefer Pichu to be back, though it would make sense if they got rid of Greninja to add Decidueye even if it ruins the purpose that people are seeing as a perfect character to have with Greninja and Charizard.

Hades can probably be scaled down pretty easily, as we've seen Palutena both regular size and giant so it's not out of the ordinary. What probably holds Hades back more is both Medusa and Viridi are more popular and that KI is now technically a dead series. Gerninja's probably also not going anywhere thanks to it still being pretty popular, and Pokemon is iconic enough to get Decidueye on top of the pokemon already in the game. I still want Cooking Mama too though, she'd be tons of fun.

I don't know why my reply was in a quote box.

You can edit the post and take what you said out of the /QUOTE part so that it's not in the box. It just takes time to get used to the way this site works.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Hades can probably be scaled down pretty easily, as we've seen Palutena both regular size and giant so it's not out of the ordinary. What probably holds Hades back more is both Medusa and Viridi are more popular and that KI is now technically a dead series. Gerninja's probably also not going anywhere thanks to it still being pretty popular, and Pokemon is iconic enough to get Decidueye on top of the pokemon already in the game. I still want Cooking Mama too though, she'd be tons of fun.

You can edit the post and take what you said out of the /QUOTE part so that it's not in the box. It just takes time to get used to the way this site works.

Hades could be scaled down, yes. I think he'd make a great addition. Have something along the lines of Palutena's Guidance. Hades Banter. My God, that'd be amazing. He'd just slander the other fighters and make fun of them. Kid Icarus isn't dead though. It has just seen a revival. I mostly say Hades because he is the MAIN antagonist of the franchise. Medusa is tied with him for that spot in my eyes, I just prefer Hades.

I think Ridley will get in eventually.

 

[Radical Bones]

Sora would be the only possible way to get Donald flipping Duck and Mickey bloody Mouse in Smash Bros. so I don't see why people don't support him.
I don't even like the character himself, but Donald Duck transcends (new favorite word, thanks John) regular Smash speculation.

Eh, personally I could do without Disney characters in Smash.

Call me a purist, but I'm happy with 3-4 third parties at the max. Smash 4 overdid it in my opinion.

I know Donald and Mickey are iconic in their own right, buuuut... just wouldn't feel right to me.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Eh, personally I could do without Disney characters in Smash.

Call me a purist, but I'm happy with 3-4 third parties at the max. Smash 4 overdid it in my opinion.

I know Donald and Mickey are iconic in their own right, buuuut... just wouldn't feel right to me.

Normally I'd agree with you but since we're talking about Mario, Pac-Man and Mickey Mouse in one game I really don't give a flying **** about "purism"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I can deal with non-video game characters being Trophies as long as the series they're from has a playable character. If Sora were to get in, Trophies sound great for Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck. Add in Goofy too, imo. I don't think they should be playable, though. I agree with the "3rd parties should originate in a video game" rule Sakurai created. It feels like it actually puts a key point on the game's series' purpose, to be the best video game character crossover ever. This is also why he feels characters who don't have heavy tied with Nintendo work well if they're iconic(Cloud is a major example of this, if not the ur example).