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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Metal Shop X

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It is NEVER going to happen, but if I had free reign of which F-Zero character got into Smash...

I'd pick Mighty Gazelle.


...The one I'd actually expect is Goroh, and that's good.
He honestly look pretty cool, but since F-Zero is kinda of dead in the big picture as of now, Goroh And Black Shadow would be the most likely candidate.

Through again, I prefer Goroh over Captain Blackdorf.
 

DYED

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Not a new game, just a Switch port
Whoops, my bad.
Anyway, it's a recent game that got a really positive feedback. Considering its characters old and/or inappreciable by a more casual community is pretty nonsensical.
 

WaddleMatt

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We're getting so close I can almost taste it
no one leak anything, okay?
I want to be surprised
Ok, sure. I'll definitley not tell my uncle who works at Nintendo and goes skiing with Sakurai three times every 2 years to tell me anything about how Ridley, K. Rool and Geno are confirmed and how there are no cuts.
 

P.Kat

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What is a stage everyone would like to see from each franchise? Here's mine:

Mario: A travelling stage on the Odyssey going through the different Kingdoms.

Yoshi: Any stage with giant Chain Chomps.

Donkey Kong: A minecart stage.

Wario: Anything from the Wario Land games.

Zelda: Grand Plateau. This should be a large stage.

Metroid: I have only played Metroid a long time ago and it was the original so I'm gonna say any classic stage would be cool.

Kirby: Anything somehow related to Dark Matter would be amazing.

Pokemon: Ultra Space.

Ice Climber: For their hopeful return I want an 8-bit stage.

Kid Icarus: An underworld style stage.

Pikmin: A stage in a cave would be really nice.

Animal Crossing: A museum stage where you travel through the different rooms.

Other series I either can't think of ideas or have very limited experience with.
I be satisfied if we could get Fountains of Dreams back

Maybe a Xenoblade Chronicles 2 stage like the Leftherian Archipelago
 

CannonStreak

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Well, I like leaks personally. They give us things to discuss when there is no news. However, as things are as they seem right now, leaks don’t seem to be a good thing at this time, as most of us don’t seem to be taking them well. Plenty of reactions here as well as discussions don’t seem that rather productive as it looks right about now, if you know what I mean.
 

CrusherMania1592

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I think it should also be noted that Lucario was put in over Mewtwo in Sm4sh which shows that he still has relevance but to be fair Brawl assets can be used more easily than Melee assets. Did Mewtwo have any work done for him in Brawl at all?
*facepalm*

They. were. Both. Planned.


BOTH were planned for Brawl



I'm sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine when I see people say that Lucario replaced Mewtwo when he didn't
 

M_Patch

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Yeah you have good point I agree with you. I've been feeling the same way too, no offense to any one who want the characters in the leaks cause I too want some of them (Sora, Snake, Medusa, Dixie, Wolf, just to name a few) but if all or most of the leaks turn out to be real It's gonna feel bittersweet,

It'll be like "yay I got the characters I want but none of them were a totally surprise." If those really were the only newcomers then I'm not really sure how to feel about that, it would still leave me wanting something more. Something surprising, I'll leave me wanting for unexpected yet lovable characters that Sakurai has a knack of putting in Smash. Normally I don't care about Spoilers, but when it comes to Smash and the characters, I don't mind taking the journey to reach the destination.
Even though I'd much prefer to wait and be surprised, I don't want to be overwhelmed by disappointment all at once.
I've been forcing myself to peruse every single leak so I can brace myself and go ahead and get a taste of anything that would really hurt me if it turns out true at E3.
That said, I don't think the truth has come out yet.
 

Sonic Poke

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I would love to see each character having a home stage. A stage designed around the character. For example:
:4bayonetta:-Umbra Clock Tower
:4bowser:- Browser's Castle
:4bowserjr:- Airship Armada
:4falcon:- White Land
:4charizard:- Mt. Ember
:4cloud:- Midgar
:4corrin:- Nohr-Hoshido War
:4dedede:- Castle Dedede
:4darkpit:- Rewind Spring
:4diddy:- Timber's Island
:4dk:- DK Island
:4drmario:- Doctor Mario
:4duckhunt:- Duck Hunt
:4falco:- Out of this Dimention
:4fox:- Space Armada
:4ganondorf:- Ganon's Castle
:4greninja:- Kalos Pokemon League
:4myfriends:- Tower of Guidance
:4jigglypuff:- Kanto Route 3
:4kirby:- Dream Land
:4littlemac:- Boxing Ring
:4link:- Kokiri Forest
:4lucario:- Battle Tower
:4lucas:- Tazmily Village
:4lucina:- Arena Ferox
:4luigi:- Luigi's Mansion
:4mario:- Mushroom Kingdom
:4marth:- Altea
:4megaman:- Willy's Castle
:4metaknight:- Halberd
:4mewtwo:- Celurean Cave
:4gaw:- Flat Zone
:4ness:- Onett
:4olimar:- Garden of Hope
:4pacman:- Pac Maze
:4palutena:- Palutena's Temple
:4peach:- Peach's Castle
:4pikachu:- Pallet Town
:4pit:- Skyworld
:4rob:- Gyromite
:4robinm:- Dragon's Table
:rosalina:- Comet Observatory
:4feroy:- Bern
:4ryu:- Suzaku Castle
:4samus:- Brinstar
:4sheik:- Temple of Time
:4shulk:- Colony 9
:4sonic:- Green Hill Zone
:4tlink:- Pirate Ship
:4villager:- Town and City
:4wario:- Wario Ware Inc.
:4wiifit:- Wii Fit Studio
:4yoshi:- Yoshi's Island
:4zelda:- Hyrule Castle
:4zss:- Bottle Ship
 

WaddleMatt

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*facepalm*

They. were. Both. Planned.


BOTH were planned for Brawl



I'm sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine when I see people say that Lucario replaced Mewtwo when he didn't
I'm not saying that. I'm just saying he was prioritised over him for inclusion. I know Mewtwo was planned. I'm just saying how he had a higher priority so he made it in while Mewtwo did not. Just like how Jigglypuff's low priority resulted in her not being included in the SSE.
 

Roberk

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Some games are in the e-shop, some others you can just grab an emulator on the internet and play them (specially mother 3, it never got outside japan and is the only way you have to play it), you don't need to expend 50$ in a game to say "oh, is this character from smash!".
specially if you already played some old FE or Pokemon games in the past and you just didn't liked them.
Understandable, but e-shop ports of games that are still quite a few console gens behind aren't enough to elevate those characters to making up almost the entirety of the Smash newcomers IMO. I guess the accessibility isn't as bad as I thought, but it's still not what I'd prefer tbh. Maybe it's just my tastes, and that's perfectly fine for both parties, but I just have this feeling that the imgur leak is made to cater to the older audience where these names have much more of an impact.
 

?????????????

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I'm sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine when I see people say that Lucario replaced Mewtwo when he didn't
Well, sure, but...

"Lucario replaced Mewtwo" is a heck of lot shorter to say than "Lucario was a higher priority than Mewtwo, so Mewtwo wound up being cut due to a lack of time while Lucario made it into the game."
 

Phaazoid

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Yes that would be great. I vote for Megalo Tower in Ultra Megalopolis. You didn't stay there very long in the games. (It's the Ultra Recon Hideout in Ultra Space where you get Poipole.)

Also, I think Buzzwole would fit very well into this game as a heavy. Even though that will never happen.
While Buzzwole would be neat, the problem is there are so many Pokemon to choose from, it's really hard to stand out. At this point, I would be really surprised if a gen 7 pokemon that isn't Mimikyu, Lycanrock, or a starter (looking at you grass line) got in. However, I would pay for a Pokemon character pack DLC with just lots of extra playable Pokemon, like Deoxys.
 

CrusherMania1592

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Well, sure, but...

"Lucario replaced Mewtwo" is a heck of lot shorter to say than "Lucario was a higher priority than Mewtwo, so Mewtwo wound up being cut due to a lack of time while Lucario made it into the game."
"Lucario made it, Mewtwo didn't"


There, summarized it in a simple sentence that everyone can understand without the PhD language lmao
 

osby

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Well, sure, but...

"Lucario replaced Mewtwo" is a heck of lot shorter to say than "Lucario was a higher priority than Mewtwo, so Mewtwo wound up being cut due to a lack of time while Lucario made it into the game."
Newcomers are always higher priority unless you are Mario. And the specific character who made into the game while Mewtwo could not is Sonic. I love Sonic but he is to blame here, not Lucario. (Nevermind SEGA)
 

osby

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Also, one reason I prefer Greninja, Robin, Shulk etc. over Goroh, Porky and Medusa: They are from new games where Smash don't have any character from.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I would love to see each character having a home stage. A stage designed around the character. For example:
:4bayonetta:-Umbra Clock Tower
:4bowser:- Browser's Castle
:4bowserjr:- Airship Armada
:4falcon:- White Land
:4charizard:- Mt. Ember
:4cloud:- Midgar
:4corrin:- Nohr-Hoshido War
:4dedede:- Castle Dedede
:4darkpit:- Rewind Spring
:4diddy:- Timber's Island
:4dk:- DK Island
:4drmario:- Doctor Mario
:4duckhunt:- Duck Hunt
:4falco:- Out of this Dimention
:4fox:- Space Armada
:4ganondorf:- Ganon's Castle
:4greninja:- Kalos Pokemon League
:4myfriends:- Tower of Guidance
:4jigglypuff:- Kanto Route 3
:4kirby:- Dream Land
:4littlemac:- Boxing Ring
:4link:- Kokiri Forest
:4lucario:- Battle Tower
:4lucas:- Tazmily Village
:4lucina:- Arena Ferox
:4luigi:- Luigi's Mansion
:4mario:- Mushroom Kingdom
:4marth:- Altea
:4megaman:- Willy's Castle
:4metaknight:- Halberd
:4mewtwo:- Celurean Cave
:4gaw:- Flat Zone
:4ness:- Onett
:4olimar:- Garden of Hope
:4pacman:- Pac Maze
:4palutena:- Palutena's Temple
:4peach:- Peach's Castle
:4pikachu:- Pallet Town
:4pit:- Skyworld
:4rob:- Gyromite
:4robinm:- Dragon's Table
:rosalina:- Comet Observatory
:4feroy:- Bern
:4ryu:- Suzaku Castle
:4samus:- Brinstar
:4sheik:- Temple of Time
:4shulk:- Colony 9
:4sonic:- Green Hill Zone
:4tlink:- Pirate Ship
:4villager:- Town and City
:4wario:- Wario Ware Inc.
:4wiifit:- Wii Fit Studio
:4yoshi:- Yoshi's Island
:4zelda:- Hyrule Castle
:4zss:- Bottle Ship
As cool as this is, that seems like a lot of work to give over 50 characters a specific stage for themselves, even with the use of old stages (which Mushroom Kingdom is being used for Mario and wouldn’t it make more sense to have Dark Pit use Reset Bomb Forest since he represents Viridi now?)
 

?????????????

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As cool as this is, that seems like a lot of work to give over 50 characters a specific stage for themselves, even with the use of old stages
Actually, I didn't even think about this til now, but...how many total stages do we currently have compared to the number of characters?

The last time I memorized that was Melee in which, if I recall, was 25 characters to 29 stages.

What is it now anyway?
 

P.Kat

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There's still quite a large fandom around him it seems.
I definitely still want him in Smash I just want him to be a quicker character and run like he does in Subspace Emissary instead the weird run he has now.
Even if it takes *painful grunt* nerfing his aura mechanic down a notch, I wouldn't mind if it made Lucario faster character.
 
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T-Hell

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I think ARMS will eventually be represented with a playable character, if not in base game, dlc for sure. I don't think Sakurai will let go the opportunity of making an interesting and unique character from a brand new franchise made for the brand new and hugely succesful Nintendo console.
And I think he didn't do Inklings for Smash4's dlc because he had already planned Smash for switch, that's my hunch.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Just saying.

Saying that Lucario and Greninja aren't popular or relevant just shows you aren't very knowledgeable about Pokemon.

Lucario was used to promote Pokemon's 20th anniversary for crying out loud. The only non Gen I Pokemon to do so.
 

osby

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I think ARMS will eventually be represented with a playable character, if not in base game, dlc for sure. I don't think Sakurai will let go the opportunity of making an interesting and unique character from a brand new franchise made for the brand new and hugely succesful Nintendo console.
And I think he didn't do Inklings for Smash4's dlc because he had already planned Smash for switch, that's my hunch.
I think He didn't do them because their mechanic is not in the base game and they are likely hard to program.
 

papagenos

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Just going to say as someone who didn't grow up in the 90's: the imgur leak looks terrible. None of those things get me excited, I "know" the characters, I just never experienced most of their games. I'm not saying any generation of players deserves more than the other, but if we can assume more young people are buying this game, those choices just aren't marketable.

Snake, Mimikyu, and Elma don't really redeem it for me imo. 2 newcomers and a veteran that I only kind of care about? No thanks, I really dislike this leak for how people praise it as the "ultimate" roster while a majority of the player base modern/casual will be left behind.
I mean i'm a total 90s guy and the leak looks great to me but im just curious who would you want that makes it better? I legit would like to know what a younger/modern gamer would expect/want in smash?

cause ridley/k rool/dixie/wolf/simon/geno/snake/ice climbers are all characters who seem to be from what i can see, all heavily requested by most people who have been with smash for a while.

sora representing kingdom hearts feels like a lot of somewhat younger gamers would be extremely pleased with that, older crowd too but kingdom hearts isnt a 80s or 90s series at all and 3 is coming out soon.

mimikyu and elma are super current and I cant imagine expecting much more than that for stuff that came out in the last say 3 years. when i make prediction rosters its usually a pokemon thats new, a xenoblade rep thats new, and then maybe an ARMS rep is about the only other "new" character i can think of that seems missing here, and dont forget inklings are a newer crowd rep for sure too.

Goroh,medusa, chorus kids, and porky are the odd or at least less expected/requested choices but they fit and probably have interesting movesets and certainly a lot of personality, im not particularly partial to any of them ( though i think they are all good choices) so i dont think its that they are only appealing to an older crowd so much as they are from lesser played series and somewhat less expected/a bit obscure, but that applies to how everyone might feel about their inclusion regardless of age.

takamaru has older/retro fans but they are only in japan anyone whos a fan in the west (myself included) just likes the concept of him(a samurai character) or would love his series to be revived cause itd be a cool series for nintendo to do stuff with, but the game was never known about and played here until many many years later.

so again im not trying to be rude here or force "liking" of this possible roster leak but I honestly am curious what do you expect or what would a roster that would excite you even look like as i legitimately have no idea whats missing here. I could name a few characters I want that arent here, waddle dee captain toad waluigi etc... but its not like this roster wouldnt check a few boxes for seemingly everyone even if a few expected characters arent here.

and as a side note, if this does turn out to be true, keep in mind theres almost certainly DLC and "newer" reps like say an ARMS character or captain toad might be saved for that so you might be very pleased with the game after all is said and done.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Actually, I didn't even think about this til now, but...how many total stages do we currently have compared to the number of characters?

The last time I memorized that was Melee in which, if I recall, was 25 characters to 29 stages.

What is it now anyway?
About 84 or so total

3DS- 42 including dlc
Wii U- 55 including dlc
Both- 13 including dlc
Total is 97 (minus 13 = 84)
 
Last edited:

NonSpecificGuy

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I posted this in the Snake thread originally but I feel like it is also relevant here.

The most frustrating thing about Vergeben is that his biggest leak break was Prime 4 being developed by Namco and, although it's almost certainly right, we won't know if that's true for certain until at least E3. However, if that's true then that means that Simon and Snake ARE definitely in because he stated that the same source that gave him the Prime 4 info is the same one that gave him the Smash 5 info. Considering Smash is very likely also developed by Namco it's safe to say that this guy has some insight into Namco. I also think he leaked some Dragon Bal FighterZ stuff which, wouldn't you know it, is published by Namco-Bandai. Anyways guys, we got 12 days. 12.

Heads up though. Vergeben. It means Forgive in German.
 

Rockaphin

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Personally, I want to see Charizard tweaked a little. Considering Zard is a flying type, I'd like to see him perform better in the air.
 

Zippo

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I posted this in the Snake thread originally but I feel like it is also relevant here.

The most frustrating thing about Vergeben is that his biggest leak break was Prime 4 being developed by Namco and, although it's almost certainly right, we won't know if that's true for certain until at least E3. However, if that's true then that means that Simon and Snake ARE definitely in because he stated that the same source that gave him the Prime 4 info is the same one that gave him the Smash 5 info. Considering Smash is very likely also developed by Namco it's safe to say that this guy has some insight into Namco. I also think he leaked some Dragon Bal FighterZ stuff which, wouldn't you know it, is published by Namco-Bandai. Anyways guys, we got 12 days. 12.

Heads up though. Vergeben. It means Forgive in German.
Wait, he said Snake was in?
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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I mean i'm a total 90s guy and the leak looks great to me but im just curious who would you want that makes it better? I legit would like to know what a younger/modern gamer would expect/want in smash?

cause ridley/k rool/dixie/wolf/simon/geno/snake/ice climbers are all characters who seem to be from what i can see, all heavily requested by most people who have been with smash for a while.

sora representing kingdom hearts feels like a lot of somewhat younger gamers would be extremely pleased with that, older crowd too but kingdom hearts isnt a 80s or 90s series at all and 3 is coming out soon.

mimikyu and elma are super current and I cant imagine expecting much more than that for stuff that came out in the last say 3 years. when i make prediction rosters its usually a pokemon thats new, a xenoblade rep thats new, and then maybe an ARMS rep is about the only other "new" character i can think of that seems missing here, and dont forget inklings are a newer crowd rep for sure too.

Goroh,medusa, chorus kids, and porky are the odd or at least less expected/requested choices but they fit and probably have interesting movesets and certainly a lot of personality, im not particularly partial to any of them ( though i think they are all good choices) so i dont think its that they are only appealing to an older crowd so much as they are from lesser played series and somewhat less expected/a bit obscure, but that applies to how everyone might feel about their inclusion regardless of age.

takamaru has older/retro fans but they are only in japan anyone whos a fan in the west (myself included) just likes the concept of him(a samurai character) or would love his series to be revived cause itd be a cool series for nintendo to do stuff with, but the game was never known about and played here until many many years later.

so again im not trying to be rude here or force "liking" of this possible roster leak but I honestly am curious what do you expect or what would a roster that would excite you even look like as i legitimately have no idea whats missing here. I could name a few characters I want that arent here, waddle dee captain toad waluigi etc... but its not like this roster wouldnt check a few boxes for seemingly everyone even if a few expected characters arent here.

and as a side note, if this does turn out to be true, keep in mind theres almost certainly DLC and "newer" reps like say an ARMS character or captain toad might be saved for that so you might be very pleased with the game after all is said and done.
Really good question. I mean 8 of the newcomers in the rumor are all current characters that can be played on this gen/last gen consoles (Inkling, Ridley, Dixie, Elma, Mimikyu, Sora, Chorus Kids, Medusa) (Side note: I had to go back multiple times while writing this post to remind my self that some of them are more current and had more recent releases than I thought). That's more than half the newcomers in this rumor, and then the return of three requested veterans. Besides a handful of new switch titles which might not even make it in base because of dumb project plan time line crap, I don't see what more current offerings are missing... (Well Bandana Dee, and a Mario character I guess)

But yea totally sincerely interested in people who would be disapointed in this lists responses.
 

Ura

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I posted this in the Snake thread originally but I feel like it is also relevant here.

The most frustrating thing about Vergeben is that his biggest leak break was Prime 4 being developed by Namco and, although it's almost certainly right, we won't know if that's true for certain until at least E3. However, if that's true then that means that Simon and Snake ARE definitely in because he stated that the same source that gave him the Prime 4 info is the same one that gave him the Smash 5 info. Considering Smash is very likely also developed by Namco it's safe to say that this guy has some insight into Namco. I also think he leaked some Dragon Bal FighterZ stuff which, wouldn't you know it, is published by Namco-Bandai. Anyways guys, we got 12 days. 12.

Heads up though. Vergeben. It means Forgive in German.
Just imagine if his reveal trailer was a callback to his Brawl one.

i.e. Simon is cleaning house against the Nintendo crew and then the Smash logo is shown leading everyone to believe it's the end of the trailer.

All of a sudden, we hear this...

*codec sound*

:snake:: Kept you waiting huh?
 
Last edited:

Phaazoid

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Only 12 more days in the Iron Maiden to go.Yes I know the Iron Miaden wasn't actually a medieval torture weapon.
Really? I really thought iron maidens were exactly that, a medieval torture device. They might not have been widely used, but they were a torture device that dates to the middle ages, I'm pretty sure.
 

TMNTSSB4

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Now I’m wondering how stages form Smash 4 will return (besides the Kid Icarus and Star Fox stages)
 

MasterOfKnees

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I posted this in the Snake thread originally but I feel like it is also relevant here.

The most frustrating thing about Vergeben is that his biggest leak break was Prime 4 being developed by Namco and, although it's almost certainly right, we won't know if that's true for certain until at least E3. However, if that's true then that means that Simon and Snake ARE definitely in because he stated that the same source that gave him the Prime 4 info is the same one that gave him the Smash 5 info. Considering Smash is very likely also developed by Namco it's safe to say that this guy has some insight into Namco. I also think he leaked some Dragon Bal FighterZ stuff which, wouldn't you know it, is published by Namco-Bandai. Anyways guys, we got 12 days. 12.

Heads up though. Vergeben. It means Forgive in German.
His Namco source only said Ridley was in, the Simon/ICs/Snake/Ridley at E3/No Cuts source was a separate one. He did say that it was one of his most reliable ones though, and it went as far as saying that Ridley will be revealed at E3, so if he is then that gives the other parts of that leak a great chance of coming true.
 

papagenos

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I'd be kinda upset with the imgur roster because I kinda set my expectations really high when it comes to Mario characters
thats probably its biggest fault imo, as im assuming we will get captain toad OR waluigi OR some kind of cappy or pauline rep for odyssey and instead the mario rep IS geno/mallow who feel more like a smash ballot/3rd party choice and not really the mario series itself.

but I could totally see saving captain toad or waluigi for DLC as captain toad on switch/3ds and mario aces (waluigi started in mario tennis) are both games coming out this year so maybe the hope is those games hype them up for DLC purchasing or something?

but hey imagine if mario has a cappy moveset in some way and we we get a daisy alt for peach (maybe alts are clones now so perhaps even a slightly tweaked playstyle as daisy) and planned DLC for captain toad/waluigi, all that plus geno and mallow in the base roster. if all THAT happened at the end of the game the mario series would have gotten a lot of attention even if the base roster seems lacking a bit with just this leak.
 

TMNTSSB4

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I still don’t see :snake: or any other Konami character returning to/joining Smash after the Konami controversy that occurred
 
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