Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MoonlitIllusion]

A Sonic stage that isn't Green Hills/Windhill/Splash Hill/Seaside or any ****ing checkered pattern first level.

I want city escape with a truck trying to run you over and everything but chances are we're getting the burning city from Forces, I'm not mad about it but meh.

Chemical plant would also be dope.

 

[Zeox]

I'd very much be paying attention to this post:

https://www.resetera.com/posts/8566915/

If leaks/new information, (and that's a major if) are going to happen, then this would most likely be the reason why. There's going up be Smash things at the booth, anything could happen.

Just the name alone should be able to debunk the imgur leak once for all.

 

[LunchmanJ]

She definitely WAS, outside of things that couldn't be done like Goku and whatnot. She was the ballot winner. Being an M rated character literally doesn't matter, considering we got her and Snake.


Despite the fact that you opened with "why add Rosalina when everyone wants K. Rool" or something like that?

What was the reason then?

When you come from a series with over eight hundred characters and land third on the popularity poll only behind Ike and Lyn, I'd say it matters a whole lot in her case. It only helps that she's incredibly important in Awakening. If that's enough for K. Rool, why is it not enough for Lucina?

The big issue here is the word "deserving." Nothing is "deserving," or at least not to any degree that matters. Only Sakurai can truly say what is deserving because we don't know all of his criteria. We know some of it, but not all.

"Troll" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but fair enough.

There's that word again. Why is Takamaru not deserving? Sakurai has given him heavy consideration in the past, and the sole roadblock Sakurai had with him (lack of international appearance) has been corrected now that Mysterious Murasame Castle got localized. He even got an Assist Trophy and Mii costume as consolation. I'd say he's perfectly "deserving."

Then why hold "mixed reviews" against Dillon (especially since they're not really mixed to begin with)?

And if that matters so much, why not use Captain Toad?

Going by what, exactly? He was popular enough to get noticed by Sakurai, who called him a popular character suggestion.


I don't see your point here. Looking at facts is a good thing, especially when your personal philosophy and the reality of roster selection are at odds. And I'm not really a nihilist lol.

Never did I say you couldn't want K. Rool. Ever. I got mad because you feel the need to step on other characters because they AREN'T K. Rool.


And on that note, what about Lucario and Greninja?

Mine is not a prediction, but an ideal roster. I disagree with Bayonetta EVER having been added and same with Snake.

K. Rool: I used that to show that people know K. Rool, and is relevant because of internet discussions.

Wii Fit: Her newest game didn't sell so well and nobody played her. Within the Wii Fit series, she is not anywhere near the protagonist, and Wii Fit is not a game.

Lucina: Use math! Lucina is way less important than characters that I chose. She's important in one game, and is an up and coming mascot. Alright, kinda deserving. Ridley appears in like 10 games as a boss several times. Waluigi appears in 20 games as a playable character. Bandana Dee is Kirby's player 4. Tom Nook!

Just in case you forgot, mine is not a prediction, and is more of a mental experiment.

Takamaru: If you want to argue in terms of the roster I'm trying to make, the super obscure game of Ice Climbers SOLD BETTER than Takamaru's game.

Solid reception makes the game more memorable, and since I'm designing for the average person...

Captain Toad: I'm considering him.

Nihilism: It's a good thing you aren't a nihilist. I do take facts into consideration because they always give me philosophy, but some facts straight up don't matter. If they all did, we would all be SJWs.

Lucario and Greninja were important one or two gen, but are now forgotten. People really try their hardest to justify Lucario. Pokken isn't that big of a boost.

 

[Arcadenik]

I just thought of this...with the Smash 4 splash art for each character reveal, only Duck Hunt realized large words randomly in their face

That fits with Duck Hunt's "breaking the fourth wall" theme.

 

[Roberk]

Just going to say as someone who didn't grow up in the 90's: the imgur leak looks terrible. None of those things get me excited, I "know" the characters, I just never experienced most of their games. I'm not saying any generation of players deserves more than the other, but if we can assume more young people are buying this game, those choices just aren't marketable.

Snake, Mimikyu, and Elma don't really redeem it for me imo. 2 newcomers and a veteran that I only kind of care about? No thanks, I really dislike this leak for how people praise it as the "ultimate" roster while a majority of the player base modern/casual will be left behind.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

That fits with Duck Hunt's "breaking the fourth wall" theme.

I suppose

 

[WaddleMatt]

Yo...what if we got Hyper Zone

This is actually my most wanted Kirby stage. I'd do anything just to see Dark Matter and/or Zero in HD.

 

[Zeox]

Just going to say as someone who didn't grow up in the 90's: the imgur leak looks terrible. None of those things get me excited, I "know" the characters, I just never experienced their games. I'm not saying any generation of players deserves more than the other, but if we can assume more young people are buying this game, those choices just aren't marketable.

Snake, Mimikyu, and Elma don't really redeem it for me imo. 2 newcomers and a veteran that I only kind of care about? No thanks, I really dislike this leak for how people praise it as the "ultimate" roster while a majority of the player base modern/casual will be left behind.

Welcome to me in Smash4 times... except I didn't even knew characters like Shulk, Greninja or Robin existed.

 

[Deleted member]

Alrigth alright the design is a problem because it would look weird if it doesn't look at front.
Unless it walks like a crab like in brawl.
Wich could be fun.

And that's the problem.
It works in Crusade like that because it's a sprite-based game. Everything's on a 2D plane, so there's little issue with how it can function.
But when you try to use a 3D model....

The design does not lend itself well regardless of whether you have it face the opponent or face the screen.
The more spherical shape of the EB mech is far more feasible.

 

[M_Patch]

Just going to say as someone who didn't grow up in the 90's: the imgur leak looks terrible. None of those things get me excited, I "know" the characters, I just never experienced their games. I'm not saying any generation of players deserves more than the other, but if we can assume more young people are buying this game, those choices just aren't marketable.

Snake, Mimikyu, and Elma don't really redeem it for me imo. 2 newcomers and a veteran that I only kind of care about? No thanks, I really dislike this leak for how people praise it as the "ultimate" roster while a majority of the player base modern/casual will be left behind.

I grew up in the '90s and I abhor this leak. (It is assuredly false, though. The only reason I can imagine people falling for it is that it has things they would deeply like to be true in it.)

The reason why I hate it should come as no surprise, of course.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Lucario and Greninja were important one or two gen, but are now forgotten

Forgotten?? They are still easily some of the most popular Pokemon.

 

[Zeox]

And that's the problem.
It works in Crusade like that because it's a sprite-based game. Everything's on a 2D plane, so there's little issue with how it can function.
But when you try to use a 3D model....

The design does not lend itself well regardless of whether you have it face the opponent or face the screen.
The more spherical shape of the EB mech is far more feasible.

True, it looks kinda weird, I still believe that if Sakurai really wanted to use it he would find someway... yet it would be much more easy to use the earthbound spider mech.

 

[SirCamp]

Just going to say as someone who didn't grow up in the 90's: the imgur leak looks terrible. None of those things get me excited, I "know" the characters, I just never experienced their games. I'm not saying any generation of players deserves more than the other, but if we can assume more young people are buying this game, those choices just aren't marketable.

Snake, Mimikyu, and Elma don't really redeem it for me imo. 2 newcomers and a veteran that I only kind of care about? No thanks, I really dislike this leak for how people praise it as the "ultimate" roster while a majority of the player base modern/casual will be left behind.

So this might sound silly, but I'm not sure the base roster even needs to be all that "marketable" so to speak. Which is to say Smash is super established as a series and is already a system seller and popular. It's already super marketable and filled to the brim with iconic characters. So, if the team wants to add some characters that aren't as hype for say people in your age range, the base game would be the time to do it. Because most people will buy the game anyway.

That's not to say they don't need any hype, I think it's less important for the base roster than say DLC. With DLC it's very important. If people aren't hyped about a character, they simply won't buy that character. This almost incentivizes them to save a number of the most popular characters for DLC, because they will be the most likely to sell well. That sounds ****ty typed out, but it is what it is I suppose.

And we all know DLC is gonna happen again. So I suppose even after everything is leaked, we'll still have some hype moments to look forward to.

 

[Megadoomer]

Since someone else brought it up, I am honestly pretty surprised no one's been asking about Inklings, lol.

I kinda got the vibe that they were pretty hype newcomers, but that could be my own personal bias making me think that (Inklings were #1 on my wishlist).

I think it's kind of like Pac-Man - everyone expected they were going to be in, so a lot of people might not be as passionate about them as they would be for someone like K. Rool, who could go either way.

 

[Yacobo]

I

Forgotten?? They are still easily some of the most popular Pokemon.

Is that true for lucario? I though that he fell off years ago.

 

[WaddleMatt]

I

Is that true for lucario? I though that he fell off years ago.

There's still quite a large fandom around him it seems.

 

[Phaazoid]

Does anyone else really want an Ultra Space pokemon stage? I think that'd be pretty lit.

 

[Icedragonadam]

You know if we do indeed get a 3rd Mother rep, is it possible we could see an Earthbound game on the Switch, whether it's a new game, remakes, or a compliation of all three games ported?

 

[Zeox]

You know if we do indeed get a 3rd Mother rep, is it possible we could see an Earthbound game on the Switch, whether it's a new game, remakes, or a compliation of all three games ported?

Or mother 3 finally being localized after 12 years
it would be beautiful if it happened.

 

[DYED]

I

Is that true for lucario? I though that he fell off years ago.

There's still quite a large fandom around him it seems.

Well, after all, there's a big hype for a possible Gen4 remake in the Pokémon fandom.

 

[?????????????]

Mine is not a prediction, but an ideal roster.

YOUR ideal.

 

[Roberk]

Welcome to me in Smash4 times... except I didn't even knew characters like Shulk, Greninja or Robin existed.

Not knowing anybody in Smash 4 is a bit more redeemable imo. If you discover Greninja and Robin by playing Smash, then you can just go and play their games that came out a year before on the modern handheld. Shulk was definitely a bit more obscure, but the modern home console, the Wii U, had backwards compatibility with the Wii so at least he was somewhat accessible. His game even got a port on the 3DS. The Imgur leak? I'd have to go back 3-5 console generations for that stuff. No thanks.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Well, after all, there's a big hype for a possible Gen4 remake in the Pokémon fandom.

I mean, it would have been better than going to Kanto again. Gen4 was what got me started with Pokemon so I would be insanely hyped if that happens.

 

[Pakky]

Lucario and Greninja were important one or two gen, but are now forgotten. People really try their hardest to justify Lucario. Pokken isn't that big of a boost.

I agree on It got nothing beyond gen 6

Disagree on because it got a new form in Sun and Moon. Which is very different compared to anything else in the series.

Its not akin to Mega Evloution for example because its gets 110 stat boost instead of 100.

It also boosts in signature move upon transforming

And its way of transformation is an ability not an item based on a mechanic.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Lucario and Greninja were important one or two gen, but are now forgotten. People really try their hardest to justify Lucario. Pokken isn't that big of a boost.

Jigglypuff ain’t important in the Pokémon series right now, yet she’s managed to stay in Smash twice, so importance/relevance means nothing to a two time vet like Lucario

Is that true for lucario? I though that he fell off years ago.

He hasn’t fallen

I'd have to go back 3-5 console generations for that stuff. No thanks.

I’m with ya there. 1-3 characters from that far in the past I can handle, but characters that are *still* being seen and used today/recently used is better than digging in the past full of mystery

 

[Metal Shop X]

I'm not even a F-Zero fan, and I would take Goroh over Black Shadow any day, cuz':

1)I'm honestly cool with Ganondorf current moveset. (Please don't kill me, I like him getting some new stuff that are more "canon", like moves with using his magic or his sword) So making a "new" character that serve more as a dump for an already exist character feel lazy to me.

2)Goroh, while he does use a sword, it is worth noting that he does use a katana, which is a type of sword that none sword characters use (beside the Mii Swordfight I guess). Not to mention his full name is litteraly "Samurai Goroh", so if they were to make a moveset that reflect in some way how samurai fight, while still making sure it's in Goroh's character, I be honestly pretty cool with him getting in. Even with my lack of knowledge on him and his franchise.

Also, Black Shadow is boring to look at, Samurai Goroh may not be Mister Pretty Anime Boy. But he would look fresh compared to the many good looking human character we have right now.

 

[Megadoomer]

Mine is not a prediction, but an ideal roster. I disagree with Bayonetta EVER having been added and same with Snake.

K. Rool: I used that to show that people know K. Rool, and is relevant because of internet discussions.

Wii Fit: Her newest game didn't sell so well and nobody played her. Within the Wii Fit series, she is not anywhere near the protagonist, and Wii Fit is not a game.

Lucina: Use math! Lucina is way less important than characters that I chose. She's important in one game, and is an up and coming mascot. Alright, kinda deserving. Ridley appears in like 10 games as a boss several times. Waluigi appears in 20 games as a playable character. Bandana Dee is Kirby's player 4. Tom Nook!

Just in case you forgot, mine is not a prediction, and is more of a mental experiment.

Takamaru: If you want to argue in terms of the roster I'm trying to make, the super obscure game of Ice Climbers SOLD BETTER than Takamaru's game.

Solid reception makes the game more memorable, and since I'm designing for the average person...

Captain Toad: I'm considering him.

Nihilism: It's a good thing you aren't a nihilist. I do take facts into consideration because they always give me philosophy, but some facts straight up don't matter. If they all did, we would all be SJWs.

Lucario and Greninja were important one or two gen, but are now forgotten. People really try their hardest to justify Lucario. Pokken isn't that big of a boost.

For Wii Fit Trainer, a lot of that is opinion based, and the last part (Wii Fit not being a game) is objectively false.

For Takamaru, his game was exclusive to Japan, while Ice Climber wasn't; that seems like it would be an important factor. Besides, we already know that he was considered for Smash 4 regardless of that.

As far as Lucina is concerned, that's like saying that Cloud should be cut, since he's only important in one Final Fantasy game out of the fifteen numbered titles. Lucina's popular/major enough that Nintendo or Intelligent Systems insisted that she should be included in Fire Emblem Warriors, when even characters like Ike, Roy, and Azura didn't get that treatment for the base game. As well, how many games a character appears or is playable in shouldn't determine them getting on the roster; otherwise, you could say that a Koopa Troopa should be playable, since they've been playable in a ton of Mario spin-offs.

Plus, you claim that you're choosing characters because they "have a strong future", only to say that Bayonetta, a character who (regardless of your feelings on the matter) was advertised as ranking extremely high in the Smash Ballot and has a major title coming out on the Switch, should be cut because you don't like her.

 

[GrownManJones]

Does anyone else really want an Ultra Space pokemon stage? I think that'd be pretty lit.

Yes that would be great. I vote for Megalo Tower in Ultra Megalopolis. You didn't stay there very long in the games. (It's the Ultra Recon Hideout in Ultra Space where you get Poipole.)

Also, I think Buzzwole would fit very well into this game as a heavy. Even though that will never happen.

 

[Zeox]

Not knowing anybody I need Smash 4 is a bit more redeemable imo. If you discover Greninja and Robin by playing Smash, then you can just go and play their games that's came out a year before on the modern handheld. S hulk was definitely a bit more obscure, but the modern home console, the Wii U, had backwards compatibility with the Wii so at least he was somewhat accessible. His game even got a port on the 3DS. The Imgur leak? I'd have to go back 3-5 console generations for that stuff. No thanks.

Some games are in the e-shop, some others you can just grab an emulator on the internet and play them (specially mother 3, it never got outside japan and is the only way you have to play it), you don't need to expend 50$ in a game to say "oh, is this character from smash!".
specially if you already played some old FE or Pokemon games in the past and you just didn't liked them.

 

[?????????????]

I suppose we could talk about what our ideal rosters would be, throwing out anything that's ever been done.

I'd FINALLY axe Jigglypuff and add Meowth. I'd add Sceptile cause he's my favorite Pokemon.

I'd beef up Donkey Kong's roster with Dixie, Cranky, AND K. Rool.

I'd add Simon Belmont and Ryu Hayabusa as classic Nintendo icons along with the already-existing Mega Man.

I'd cut Ness and the Earthbound series would be represented by Lucas and characters from MOTHER 3 alone so that there was a variety, so I'd add people like Duster and Masked Man.

I'd do the same for Fire Emblem, making the whole roster just characters from one game, like Awakening or Fates, so there would be a variety of fighting styles. Probably have Corrin, Ryoma, Xander, Hinoka, Camilla, Takumi, and Leo.



...But see how all that caters entirely to my ideals without considering the Earthbound fans and people who like literally any other Fire Emblem game?

 

[Zeox]

I'm not even a F-Zero fan, and I would take Goroh over Black Shadow any day.

Black Shadow reminds me of batman... but with big horns.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Lucario and Greninja were important one or two gen, but are now forgotten. People really try their hardest to justify Lucario. Pokken isn't that big of a boost.

You didn't just say that. Tell me...he didn't...just...say that.


Lucario and Greninja are still popular among the Pokemon AND Smash community. If Lucario was to be a flavor of the month, then please explain to me how he ended up returning for Wii U/3DS?

Let's not forget to mention that Lucario had a movie focusing on him (Lucario and the Mystery of Mew) along with having a storyline in X/Y where Korrina gives one of her Lucario to the player. Greninja was heavily featured in the anime and Sakurai picked Greninja based on his designs and possible move pool (this one I might be wrong with). Let's not forget that Greninja ended up getting a different form called Ash-Greninja which wouldn't be surprising if that made an appearance as his new Final Smash for this game plus he was a Pokemon that we could transfer from the Sun and Moon demo


So yeah...tell me again how they are "forgotten"? Because they aren't. They're the faces of the newer generations just like Pikachu, Charizard, and others were the faces of the original generation.

 

[DYED]

Not knowing anybody in Smash 4 is a bit more redeemable imo. If you discover Greninja and Robin by playing Smash, then you can just go and play their games that came out a year before on the modern handheld. Shulk was definitely a bit more obscure, but the modern home console, the Wii U, had backwards compatibility with the Wii so at least he was somewhat accessible. His game even got a port on the 3DS. The Imgur leak? I'd have to go back 3-5 console generations for that stuff. No thanks.

I wouldn't say so. Not for most of them.

Belmont is an old character, yeah, but the franchise's last chapter is dated 2014, I doubt new rookies wouldn't recognize and appreciate his cameo in the game.
Ridley and Metroid as a whole are coming back with new chapters, same with Star Fox while Kid Icarus and Rhythm Heaven are still going strong and have deep, affectionate fandoms despite being 4-5 years old games.
Donkey Kong got his new game recently, Kingdom Hearts is going to soon ...

And for all the others, just like Zeox said, they're probably purchasable on the Switch e-store.

 

[P.Kat]

Honestly, while leaks are fun to discuss, I'm in the camp of people that really wished they weren't a thing. E3 leaks are like looking at your Christmas presents early; sure, you know what they are now, but all that means is that the event you were waiting for has now lost most of what made it special. Instead of being "Aaaah, that character got in! Cool!" it becomes "Huh. Leak was real. Neat.", and that just kind of bums me out, lol.

I think the reason I want these to be fake so much is because I just prefer to be surprised, especially when it comes to Nintendo stuff.

Yeah you have good point I agree with you. I've been feeling the same way too, no offense to any one who want the characters in the leaks cause I too want some of them (Sora, Snake, Medusa, Dixie, Wolf, just to name a few) but if all or most of the leaks turn out to be real It's gonna feel bittersweet,

It'll be like "yay I got the characters I want but none of them were a totally surprise." If those really were the only newcomers then I'm not really sure how to feel about that, it would still leave me wanting something more. Something surprising, I'll leave me wanting for unexpected yet lovable characters that Sakurai has a knack of putting in Smash. Normally I don't care about Spoilers, but when it comes to Smash and the characters, I don't mind taking the journey to reach the destination.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Black Shadow reminds me of batman... but with big horns.

Yeah, that's what I thought too when I first saw him, I was like, "hey, he look cool!".

But compared to others character in F-Zero, he look just...I don't know, too simple?

 

[?????????????]

Yeah, that's what I thought too when I first saw him, I was like, "hey, he look cool!".

But compared to others character in F-Zero, he look just...I don't know, too simple?

It is NEVER going to happen, but if I had free reign of which F-Zero character got into Smash...

I'd pick Mighty Gazelle.


...The one I'd actually expect is Goroh, and that's good.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Lucario and Greninja are still popular among the Pokemon AND Smash community. If Lucario was to be a flavor of the month, then please explain to me how he ended up returning for Wii U/3DS?

I think it should also be noted that Lucario was put in over Mewtwo in Sm4sh which shows that he still has relevance but to be fair Brawl assets can be used more easily than Melee assets. Did Mewtwo have any work done for him in Brawl at all?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I'd FINALLY axe Jigglypuff and add Meowth. I'd add Sceptile cause he's my favorite Pokemon.

I'd cut Ness and the Earthbound series would be represented by Lucas and characters from MOTHER 3 alone so that there was a variety, so I'd add people like Duster and Masked Man.

I'd do the same for Fire Emblem, making the whole roster just characters from one game, like Awakening or Fates, so there would be a variety of fighting styles. Probably have Corrin, Ryoma, Xander, Hinoka, Camilla, Takumi, and Leo.

You are an evil man for such...EVIL THOUGHTS

I
Donkey Kong got his new game recently

Not a new game, just a Switch port

I'd do the same for Fire Emblem, making the whole roster just characters from one game, like Awakening or Fates, so there would be a variety of fighting styles. Probably have Corrin, Ryoma, Xander, Hinoka, Camilla, Takumi, and Leo./QUOTE]
Could’ve atleast gone with 5 different variants of Lyn from Heroes, plus 5 more new Lyn variations

 

[Deleted member]

I think it should also be noted that Lucario was put in over Mewtwo in Sm4sh which shows that he still has relevance but to be fair Brawl assets can be used more easily than Melee assets. Did Mewtwo have any work done for him in Brawl at all?

Unused data ingame shows that Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario were worked on somewhat for Brawl, but probably not enough to be reused for Sm4sh.

 

[osby]

I think it should also be noted that Lucario was put in over Mewtwo in Sm4sh which shows that he still has relevance but to be fair Brawl assets can be used more easily than Melee assets. Did Mewtwo have any work done for him in Brawl at all?

At least not a working model, no.