Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

At the end of the day Snake returning is just a very logical extension to having Konami involved so it's well within the realm of "piggybacking".

Still a balsy move to makes nonetheless when people were betting their money on Bomberman/Crash/Spyro, and that your Leak have four Third Party with Belmondo/Snake/Sora/Geno+Mallow
And of course the Konami fiasco-

I would say it is a logical extension. But obvious one? Nah.

 

[DYED]

Courtesy from 4chan's Anon who keep and update of that things.

TL:DR Vergeben is a somewhat famous leaker who usually get things right when it comes from Namco-bandai fighterZ or fighting games in general.
He first said that Ridley is 100% sure thanks to a source.
Another said that Ice climber and Simon Belmont is in and no cut.
Later on a weird Imgur link with "clue" to newcomers get posted on Reddit. It have all of the characters you see on that pictures+ Ridley/Simon/Ice climbers AND Snake who at the time had no source, saying that the theme of the game is Vilain va Heroes
A second? (Or same person/piggybacked) source on 4chan said the same things than the imgur leak but saying that Lucina/DR.Mario/Dark.Pit are cut.
Later on, Vergeben says that he heard that Snake is back which...is like the Imgur leak said.

And lastly, he said he heard that Minecraft could have an appearance in Smash, whenever it's a stage/AT or trophy, however that information was posted on GameFaqs instead of the Reddit threat where he post things he seems to be pretty sure of.


Keep in mind that Vergeben might be right, but the imgur can be 100% bull****

I really like the idea as a whole, especially the theme of Good vs Evil.
I like a lot of these newcomers, especially Snake and the Ice Climbers coming back and Porky (always wanted to play as him in Smash), the Chorus Kids and Geno.
Now what I hope is that the leak is HALF WRONG, because literally 0 of the character I was hoping for (specifically, Midna, Waluigi, Marx, Shantae and Crash) got confirmed so far.

Smash leaks sometimes give and sometimes take.
They usually do nothing tho, so I still keep my hopes up!

 

[Zeox]

I really like the idea as a whole, especially the theme of Good vs Evil.
I like a lot of these newcomers, especially Snake and the Ice Climbers coming back and Porky (always wanted to play as him in Smash), the Chorus Kids and Geno.
Now what I hope is that the leak is HALF WRONG, because literally 0 of the character I was hoping for (specifically, Midna, Waluigi, Marx, Shantae and Crash) got confirmed so far.

Smash leaks sometimes give and sometimes take.
They usually do nothing tho, so I still keep my hopes up!

Never lose your hope, leaks are not the end, but the beginning... and I have no idea what that even means.

 

[P.Kat]

I like how the video linked at the bottom explains that Sora has a geniune shot because Disney always asks Nomura and Square Enix for approval on using Sora outside of Kingdom Hearts.

Yet, the picture doesn't bring up that Disney wants to focus on KH3 before doing anything else with Sora, which was said in that very same video, meaning that his chances, at least for the base roster, are seemingly slim to none.

Well that's disappointing, but if that's what Disney said then it is what it is. The slightest shard of hope I have is that he comes out as DLC then hopefully.

 

[Cosmic77]

The design philosophy for this roster is pretty damn terrible and reeks of "bias while trying to maintain the guise of not being biased."

- You say fan demand should supersede relevance for K. Rool...and then cut the ballot winner. You know, the character with undeniable, proven fan demand.
- You cut Lucario and Greninja despite them being incredibly popular both within and outside of the Pokémon fanbase.
- Random Wii Fit Trainer cut that'll never happen.
- Slightly more controversial due to being a clone, but again, Lucina is incredibly popular within the Fire Emblem community, once again going against your view that popularity should be everything.
- You claim ARMS doesn't have a main character when virtually every bit of marketing has Spring Man front and center. He's the Ryu of the game.
- You arbitrarily downplay Skull Kid's importance in Majora's Mask for...some reason?
- Your reasons for not adding Takamaru come down to "characters already in the game are better," which is a nothing statement.
- You claim Rhythm Heaven characters are "all stick figures" which is blatantly false.
- If a game "getting mixed reviews" mattered we wouldn't have modern Sonic.
- Your argument against Toad would work against Yoshi or any of the Pokémon.
- You use "dead franchises" as a reason against certain characters...after saying relevance shouldn't matter for K. Rool.
- Your Geno point makes no sense. People were EXCITED for it. If anything Geno hype increased because of it.
- You said you didn't want placeholders, and yet you added an FE 16 placeholder.

But most importantly, your post reeks of typical K. Rool desperation. The feeling that you need to bash characters like Rosalina for "stealing a spot" from your obese overlord. And that sentiment is all too common for my liking. You contradict your own pre-established rules when they don't help K. Rool, you show clear signs of ignorance when it comes to series you don't care about, and you make up blatant falsehoods to "back up" your design decisions.

And the worst part is, you're not alone. And it's attitudes like this that really turned me away from wanting K. Rool in Smash, because of cynical folks stuck in the nineties who refuse to see anything created after 2007 as "worthy." People like that give the better part of his support base a bad name, and it only got worse during ballot season. And as someone who used to be really excited about the prospect of K. Rool in Smash, it sucks. But when a not-insignificant portion of his fanbase insists on knocking everything that came out after he stopped being important, it just makes you think, "Are these the people that I want to be rewarded in the end?"

Call it a rant, but hey. Who cares?

Maybe it's because I feel like I'm forever stuck as an eleven year-old kid, but I don't understand why people are so hesitant to support some of these newer characters. There's quite a few choices who would make some very unique additions, but everyone else is like "How old are they!? Are they recurring!? Do they deserve to be in Smash!?"

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Lucina/DR.Mario/Dark.Pit are cut.

I still hope this one is definitely not true (though I won’t mind Dark Pit leaving only if Viridi and Medusa were to take his place

 

[Nekoo]

Well that's disappointing, but if that's what Disney said then it is what it is. The slightest shard of hope I have is that he comes out as DLC then hopefully.

Can be the truth, like it can be PR talk, yknow when a star is promoting a movie, you don't want to talk about your other roles.

Remember the ARMS producer did dismiss ARMS characters saying that "they're young but happy that the fans think about it".

Can be the truth, like it can be PR NDA talk

 

[osby]

Maybe it's because I feel like I'm forever stuck as an eleven year-old kid, but I don't understand why people are so hesitant to support some of these newer characters. There's quite a few choices who would make some very unique additions, but everyone else is like "How old are they!? Are they recurring!? Do they deserve to be in Smash!?"

Because a lot of people thinks only The Worthy can get into Smash. That And they forget almost all veterans were really young when they entered the roster.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Well that's disappointing, but if that's what Disney said then it is what it is. The slightest shard of hope I have is that he comes out as DLC then hopefully.

But hey, at least we know Sora in Smash is not completely impossible.

Iirc, one of the core arguments against him was that Sakurai prefers Japanese developers since he can just go and visit them personally for better communication under the same language.

With Disney straight up asking Nomura and Square Enix if it's okay to use Sora in non-KH stuff, that argument pretty much died since Sakurai could go see Square Enix and Nomura after these two give Disney the okay instead of trying to speak with the English-speaking Disney.

 

[DYED]

Never lose your hope, leaks are not the end, but the beginning... and I have no idea what that even means.

Was nice so read whatsoever.

I still hope this one is definitely not true (though I won’t mind Dark Pit leaving only if Viridi and Medusa were to take his place

They say they're cut from the roster, but I don't recall anyone saying anything against them being costumes.
Would be nice imo.

 

[Zeox]

The fact that the leak don't have an ARMS character is still interesting, I thought (and pretty sure I wasn't the only one) that at least one arms character would be in this new smash FOR SURE.
Yet this leaker comes and says "nope, no arms for you".
If I made a fake leak of smash characters I would had added an arms character for sure no doubt.

 

[P.Kat]

Can be the truth, like it can be PR talk, yknow when a star is promoting a movie, you don't want to talk about your other roles.

Remember the ARMS producer did dismiss ARMS characters saying that "they're young but happy that the fans think about it".

Can be the truth, like it can be PR NDA talk

So true can't reveal everything before it's time it's better to deny its inclusion and exclusion.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

What would you guys think about Shiren the Wanderer as a playable character? He even has a white, talking ferret companion!

 

[P.Kat]

But hey, at least we know Sora in Smash is not completely impossible.

Iirc, one of the core arguments against him was that Sakurai prefers Japanese developers since he can just go and visit them personally for better communication under the same language.

With Disney straight up asking Nomura and Square Enix if it's okay to use Sora in non-KH stuff, that argument pretty much died since Sakurai could go see Square Enix and Nomura after these two give Disney the okay instead of trying to speak with the English-speaking Disney.

True there's a bright side to everything

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

What's happenin', forum?

Sheesh, the more I see these leaks come out of the woodwork, the more I want them to be false.

Oh BTW, didn't Vergeben get Zoro wrong for SCVI?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The fact that the leak don't have an ARMS character is still interesting, I thought (and pretty sure I wasn't the only one) that at least one arms character would be in this new smash FOR SURE.
Yet this leaker comes and says "nope, no arms for you".
If I made a fake leak of smash characters I would had added an arms character for sure no doubt.

The lack of ARMS is indeed really strange.

Nintendo's tried so damn hard to market the game last year, thinking it could be a big hit like Spatoon was.

Having an ARMS character just feels like a no-brainer.

 

[osby]

The fact that the leak don't have an ARMS character is still interesting, I thought (and pretty sure I wasn't the only one) that at least one arms character would be in this new smash FOR SURE.
Yet this leaker comes and says "nope, no arms for you".
If I made a fake leak of smash characters I would had added an arms character for sure no doubt.

Like those fake DLC leaks claiming Inklings are in?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

They say they're cut from the roster, but I don't recall anyone saying anything against them being costumes. Would be nice imo.

Doc I could see being an alt due to Odyssey and Lucina not really, she’s technically a different character and deserving of her spot and as a whole FE rep (while the Doc is literally Mario, but sexier) Pittoo however, definitely don’t see being an alt, especially with Sakurai not wanting him to wield the one (technically two) weapon(s) he’s never touched before due to the weirdness.

The lack of ARMS is indeed really strange.

Nintendo's tried so damn hard to market the game last year, thinking it could be a big hit like Spatoon was.

Having an ARMS character just feels like a no-brainer.

And they can have many different arms as well as have some of the slim characters be alts to Spring Man (like Ribbon Girl and Twintelle)

 

[Zeox]

Like those fake DLC leaks claiming Inklings are in?

Yeah, because if you make a fake leak you will go for the obvious, even if it ends up being not true.
It was obvious to add inklings in the dlc fake leaks, just like it would be obvious to add an arms character in a fake leak for this game.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And they can have many different arms as well as have some of the slim characters be alts to Spring Man (like Ribbon Girl and Twintelle)

I heavily disagree with the idea of different characters being alts (except for Springtron with Spring Man) due to how different each character looks, plays and feels.

Having Ribbon Girl without her multiple jumps would just feel wrong...

 

[Davidius]

Seeing how Konami murder the metal gear franchise and it seems to hate it, I don't think is that obvious.

It hardly seems all that unlikely from the point of view of "You're involved and stand to make money from this, you may as well greenlight this character who is already mostly done by virtue of being in a previous game". There's always a fudge factor and maybe they really are that twisted against their own IP but if Konami were involved I'd definitely put Snake in the "reasonably likely" category at least (and certainly nowhere near "no chance"). From that point of view the Snake coincidence doesn't strike me as very impressive.

 

[osby]

(while the Doc is literally Mario, but sexier)

Finally, we are having some quality discussions.

 

[Nekoo]

What's happenin', forum?

Sheesh, the more I see these leaks come out of the woodwork, the more I want them to be false.

Oh BTW, didn't Vergeben get Zoro wrong for SCVI?

But also guessed the whole FighterZ DLC before we could Datamine.
TMNT in Injustice that no one saw coming.
And Some DLC in MVCI, that multiple trusted source confirmed before the game had an internal development shutdown and stop DLC in less than a year of service.

He have a more "right" than "wrong" track record overall

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

But also guessed the whole FighterZ DLC before we could Datamine.
TMNT in Injustice that no one saw coming.
And Some DLC in MVCI, that multiple trusted source confirmed before the game had an internal development shutdown and stop DLC in less than a year of service.

He have a more "right" than "wrong" track record overall

But none of these are Nintendo stuff, so regardless of track record, this should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

You know, ARMS has a whole roster of great fighters that could make for a whole new character archetype on its own! I can imagine them being very position reliant due to stiff movement, but rather smooth jump control. Heavy emphasis on the Arms themselves being 'external hitboxes' that can be angled & paced w/ snake-like movement.

Spring Man is your straight man, Ribbon Girl can make an easy semi-clone with floatier & faster properties, a 3rd bonus fighter in the form of Min-Min, Master Mummy, Helix, who have ya?

But also guessed the whole FighterZ DLC before we could Datamine.
TMNT in Injustice that no one saw coming.
And Some DLC in MVCI, that multiple trusted source confirmed before the game had an internal development shutdown and stop DLC in less than a year of service.

He have a more "right" than "wrong" track record overall

Riiiiight

The MvCI lifespan stuff really has yet to be definitively confirmed, but you are right that I should always doubt my own feeling given his reputation. Maybe its just my suspension of disbelief. Its just going to reaaaaally be disappointing as fudge when E3 comes around & all the new & returning characters are just ticking off some Potsdam leak list. Cynical, yet relieving?

At least I don't have some wonky Shounen Jump bozoo in my Soulcalibur. Geralt is the perfect pick. I suppose they could always make false leads or make false claims for cover or trolling.

 

[Darkraid]

Courtesy from 4chan's Anon who keep and update of that things.

TL:DR Vergeben is a somewhat famous leaker who usually get things right when it comes from Namco-bandai fighterZ or fighting games in general.
He first said that Ridley is 100% sure thanks to a source.
Another said that Ice climber and Simon Belmont is in and no cut.
Later on a weird Imgur link with "clue" to newcomers get posted on Reddit. It have all of the characters you see on that pictures+ Ridley/Simon/Ice climbers AND Snake who at the time had no source, saying that the theme of the game is Vilain va Heroes
A second? (Or same person/piggybacked) source on 4chan said the same things than the imgur leak but saying that Lucina/DR.Mario/Dark.Pit are cut.
Later on, Vergeben says that he heard that Snake is back which...is like the Imgur leak said.

And lastly, he said he heard that Minecraft could have an appearance in Smash, whenever it's a stage/AT or trophy, however that information was posted on GameFaqs instead of the Reddit threat where he post things he seems to be pretty sure of.


Keep in mind that Vergeben might be right, but the imgur can be 100% bull****

keep in mind that he had 2 sources for smash.

1) Ridley is in

2) Ridley, Simon and ICs with no cuts.

I don't know which source indicated Snake.

Don't forget about that

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I heavily disagree with the idea of different characters being alts (except for Springtron with Spring Man) due to how different each character looks, plays and feels.

Having Ribbon Girl without her multiple jumps would just feel wrong...

They could combine some of the things each fighter has to create one Smash character, like how borrowed things from different games (or how used all the powers that/would use to make up half of her moveset)

Finally, we are having some quality discussions.

It’s always a good time to praise such beauty

 

[osby]

Yeah, because if you make a fake leak you will go for the obvious, even if it ends up being not true.
It was obvious to add inklings in the dlc fake leaks, just like it would be obvious to add an arms character in a fake leak for this game.

Maybe people are trying to look "not obvious" after the initial leaks, since that's what I feel about recent leaks.

 

[P.Kat]

Doc I could see being an alt due to Odyssey and Lucina not really, she’s technically a different character and deserving of her spot and as a whole FE rep (while the Doc is literally Mario, but sexier) Pittoo however, definitely don’t see being an alt, especially with Sakurai not wanting him to wield the one (technically two) weapon(s) he’s never touched before due to the weirdness.


And they can have many different arms as well as have some of the slim characters be alts to Spring Man (like Ribbon Girl and Twintelle)

Pretty sure Lucina will get an overhaul in her moveset just like Pit, Sheik, Zelda, and Zero Suit Samus did. Also, can't forget the fireball Min Min.

 

[Superyoshiom]

keep in mind that he had 2 sources for smash.

1) Ridley is in

2) Ridley, Simon and ICs with no cuts.

I don't know which source indicated Snake.

Don't forget about that

One of those leaks has Medusa over Hades. I'm not sure I could live in a world where we have 4 KI characters and not the best one.

 

[DYED]

Doc I could see being an alt due to Odyssey and Lucina not really, she’s technically a different character and deserving of her spot and as a whole FE rep (while the Doc is literally Mario, but sexier) Pittoo however, definitely don’t see being an alt, especially with Sakurai not wanting him to wield the one (technically two) weapon(s) he’s never touched before due to the weirdness.

While I agree on the opinion that Lucina is a character important enough to stand on her own, I don't think she has the moveset to do that.
I think she either needs a more personal moveset or to be demoted as alt, which isn't that bad honestly.

Sakurai should go for the Super Smash Bros Crusade mode (which is a fangame, obviously), where the alt costumes actually change the stats and even some moves, so you can keep in the game all the versions of a character, so to make everyone happy.

 

[Nekoo]

Yeah, because if you make a fake leak you will go for the obvious, even if it ends up being not true.
It was obvious to add inklings in the dlc fake leaks, just like it would be obvious to add an arms character in a fake leak for this game.

That's what makes this rumor so far very interesting. Lots of popular picks but also tons of surprise and no "Obvious" characters.

But none of these are Nintendo stuff, so regardless of track record, this should be taken with a grain of salt.

That's true, that's true. But he's the only somehow trusted leaker who speak unlike the Reset Era mods who just keep it quiet.

You know, ARMS has a whole roster of great fighters that could make for a whole new character archetype on its own! I can imagine them being very position reliant due to stiff movement, but rather smooth jump control. Heavy emphasis on the Arms themselves being 'external hitboxes' that can be angled & paced w/ snake-like movement.

Spring Man is your straight man, Ribbon Girl can make an easy semi-clone with floatier & faster properties, a 3rd bonus fighter in the form of Min-Min, Master Mummy, Helix, who have ya?


Riiiiight

The MvCI lifespan stuff really has yet to be definitively confirmed, but you are right that I should always doubt my own feeling given his reputation. Maybe its just my suspension of disbelief. Its just going to reaaaaally be disappointing as fudge when E3 comes around & all the new & returning characters are just ticking off some Potsdam leak list. Cynical, yet relieving?

At least I don't have some wonky Shounen Jump bozoo in my Soulcalibur. Geralt is the perfect pick. I suppose they could always make false leads or make false claims for cover or trolling.

I still feels ****ing scammed with MVCI tbvh and the fact that they dropped Denuvo makes me think it's done...
With a not even roster of More Marvel than Capcom look disgusting on the CSS
Also it's common for leaks to put right and wrong sometimes to hide their identity.
Like the Let's go Pikachu leak being 100% right but posted a 1st April.

 

[Zeox]

Maybe people are trying to look "not obvious" after the initial leaks, since that's what I feel about recent leaks.

But leaking the whole roster also smell as "too obvious fake", if the leaker wasn't trying to look obvious, the person should have leaked 2 or 3 characters.

One of those leaks has Medusa over Hades. I'm not sure I could live in a world where we have 4 KI characters and not the best one.

But Dark Pit is already on smash

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I still feels ****ing scammed with MVCI tbvh and the fact that they dropped Denuvo makes me think it's done...
With a not even roster of More Marvel than Capcom look disgusting on the CSS
Also it's common for leaks to put right and wrong sometimes to hide their identity.
Like the Let's go Pikachu leak being 100% right but posted a 1st April.

Not to mention the Lapras image that could've easily been processed thru Photoshop or just in a raw cam cap to add some choppiness for doubt.

I'm with you on the CSS. There was absolutely no need for an extra Marvel character. I only see Venom ever being used. Apparently there's been another leak that claims MvCI outright gets pulled from market within October & will have a server shutdown. Something along those lines.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Pretty sure Lucina will get an overhaul in her moveset just like The GOAT Pit, Sheik, Zelda, and Zero Suit Waifu did. Also, can't forget the fireball Min Min.

While I agree on the opinion that Lucina is a character important enough to stand on her own, I don't think she has the moveset to do that.
I think she either needs a more personal moveset or to be demoted as alt, which isn't that bad honestly.

Lucina getting an overhaul would be astonishing, and her being demoted to an alt isn’t the worst, but no tipper for her seems satisfying

Sakurai should go for the Super Smash Bros Crusade mode (which is a fangame, obviously), where the alt costumes actually change the stats and even some moves, so you can keep in the game all the versions of a character, so to make everyone happy.

That could possibly work

But Dark Pit is already on smash

Viridi > her new “apprentice”

 

[P.Kat]

You know, ARMS has a whole roster of great fighters that could make for a whole new character archetype on its own! I can imagine them being very position reliant due to stiff movement, but rather smooth jump control. Heavy emphasis on the Arms themselves being 'external hitboxes' that can be angled & paced w/ snake-like movement.

Spring Man is your straight man, Ribbon Girl can make an easy semi-clone with floatier & faster properties, a 3rd bonus fighter in the form of Min-Min, Master Mummy, Helix, who have ya?


Riiiiight

The MvCI lifespan stuff really has yet to be definitively confirmed, but you are right that I should always doubt my own feeling given his reputation. Maybe its just my suspension of disbelief. Its just going to reaaaaally be disappointing as fudge when E3 comes around & all the new & returning characters are just ticking off some Potsdam leak list. Cynical, yet relieving?

At least I don't have some wonky Shounen Jump bozoo in my Soulcalibur. Geralt is the perfect pick. I suppose they could always make false leads or make false claims for cover or trolling.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing Ichigo Kurosaki (or other Bleach characters like Kenpachi or Byakuya) in Soulcaliber I think they'd fit perfectly but no other Shounen Jump characters for sure I agree with you there.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

They could combine some of the things each fighter has to create one Smash character, like how borrowed things from different games (or how used all the powers that/would use to make up half of her moveset)

Villager's moves make sense. He's a composite of all the Animal Crossing games, even using some New Leaf stuff despite being based on earlier games design-wise. And the moves that take from games other than AC games were on those NES things in the GameCube game. Everything makes sense and references Animal Crossing in some shape or form, even the stuff that seems like a stretch.

Duck Hunt Dog was literally just a NPC that laughed at you, nothing more. That gives him next to no moveset option aside from basic duck and dog stuff, with a NES Zapper from beyond the fourth wall filling some gaps. Stuff from other games are references to other NES Zapper games, which makes sense there too, especially due to the unseen Zapper user in the moveset. A bit of a stretch, but then again, Duck Hunt didn't offer much on its own...

Aside from up taunt's sprites, the only move Pac-Man takes from a different game is the up special, being taken from Mappy instead. I'll give you a point for this one, but then again, what were the other options for his recovery that wouldn't feel like a lazy upwards version of his side special.

Palutena is the one using the powers to help the Pits in Uprising rather than the Pits themselves, so having her use them in combat in Smash actually makes perfect sense and doesn't make her a composite like the others you brought.

In addition, none of them actually take stuff that would make them feel out of their own character.

And if that wasn't enough, everyone has the same basic options in ARMS; punch, block, dash, grab, jump and rush. And some of those options (by which I mean everything but the grab's throw and a handful of dashes) give the exact same animations.

While some moves in Smash could be drawn from other characters (like Master Mummy's throw), I don't see the possibility of getting rid of what makes each ARMS character special, their gimmick, and slapping all of that stuff into a Frankenstein's Monster moveset. It rids them of their individuality and could end up making for a needlessly complex moveset with a dozen gimmicks attached to it.

 

[P.Kat]

Lucina getting an overhaul would be astonishing, and her being demoted to an alt isn’t the worst, but no tipper for her seems satisfying


That could possibly work


Viridi > her new “apprentice”

Yeah playing Lucina with no tipper was a breath of fresh air.

 

[osby]

But Dark Pit is already on smash

I like Palutena more but actually I think Dark Pit was the best character in Uprising.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

K.Rool fans have become the new Ridley fans.

Ridley fans have become pretty darn chill.