Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[NobleClamtasm]

But why do people buy Smash games in the first place?

...It's because they're excited to play as their favorite Nintendo characters. It's the roster.

I for one am interested mostly on the gameplay. Having a roster that I like is just icing on the cake, but a good roster won't prevent me from losing interest a week later if the actual game is boring.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I know reading comprehension can be hard, but I was asking why do people know all these characters but haven't mentioned gameplay.

Also, in your mind no one cares, but this Evo Melee will be more hype than Sm4sh and have a Sunday spot. Even when they gave Sm4sh a Sunday slot and not Melee, Melee hit the same numbers on a Saturday. You know why? Because the gameplay, not the roster. But please go on and tell me more.

Ah. I seem to have hurt your competitive heart. I am sorry for that.

Because again? Mentioning the gameplay is utterly irrelevant when leaking Smash Brothers. You just bore half the audience you're trying to get the attention of.

Smash is not just for one side and mostly no one wants to drudge through the details of a character crossover's gameplay. They just want to know what characters appear and where.

They want to know who is playable, who isn't, who is an assist trophy, who is a Pokeball Pokemon. What franchise has new stages, etc. That kinda of stuff. That's what leaks are about with Smash.

This isn't Street Fighter or anything like that where you are more likely to see discussing of that type of technical stuff alongside a character roster reveal.

I'm sorry that seems to really hurt you though? Because no one was attacking competitive gameplay, nor Melee, which you seem to have brought up out of just no where.

 

[?????????????]

Reading comprehension = zero. All I asked about was why no leaker has mentioned anything about gameplay. Didn't talk about sales figures, how to sell a game, the roster or Melee until I was forced to.

So once again I just want to know why there's so much leaks around the roster but not one about gameplay. That's what I was asking. Maybe there was a leak that I missed.

Okay, I'll be more blunt then.

No leaker is talking about the gameplay because Smash Bros. has had the same gameplay since it was created. There's nothing to talk about. Yes, maybe there's some new things like Side Bs, Air Dodges, and Final Smashes, but otherwise, we already KNOW what the gameplay will be.

I for one am interested mostly on the gameplay. Having a roster that I like is just icing on the cake, but a good roster won't prevent me from losing interest a week later if the actual game is boring.

Okay...but you already like Smash Bros., right?

So you already know you'll like the gameplay.

 

[GrownManJones]

Snip

Well you just wrote a 150+ word response to me and still didn't say anything relevant to what I was talking about except the Street Fighter comparison, which is a good comparison.

As you said when that new game comes out half the talk is about gameplay. Here zero talk is about gameplay and I was asking why. Your answer was no one cares about gameplay the roster sells the game. And you said it like a jackass.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Costume =/= Square Enix caring about the idea of Geno as a playable character in Smash, especially since they haven't used him in a major role since 1996, not even in the two Mario sports games they collaborated with Nintendo for. .

I'm just saying?

You really do need to stop because there might be a day when you have egg on your face about Geno, because you seem to really steadfast fight even the slightest idea of him in Smash and it's not even remotely this impossibility you're making it out to be, it's unlikely at least, but not this one hundred percent never happening thing you're so prone to harp in on?

The moment someone even remotely mentions him in passing.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Minecraft is iconic, so I'm fine with any type of representation.

However, if we end up getting Steve as a character, I'm afraid that people will interpret it the wrong way. "So Sakurai really does consider joke characters! Maybe if we try hard enough, we might actually be able to get Goku in Smash!"

I'm not sure how the main character of one of the most iconic gaming franchises is comparable to a meme manga character.

 

[GrownManJones]

Okay, I'll be more blunt then.

No leaker is talking about the gameplay because Smash Bros. has had the same gameplay since it was created.

Wow. Ok.

 

[StrangeMann]

I do think some aspects of smash 4's design should be changed or reduced (randomly untechable techs, rage mechanic, better counterplay to recoveries in general, less safe defensive neutral options, lack of combos), but I don't think it's a deciding factor for many people's purchases. Most smash owners are likely semi-casual players (mostly children) who just want a good time to play with friends with items on.

 

[Nekoo]

Reading comprehension = zero. All I asked about was why no leaker has mentioned anything about gameplay. Didn't talk about sales figures, how to sell a game, the roster or Melee until I was forced to.

So once again I just want to know why there's so much leaks around the roster but not one about gameplay. That's what I was asking. Maybe there was a leak that I missed.

Because most of the times, leaker gets info like this.
>Work on Smash or know someone who work on it.
>Oh **** hear about X getting in- or know that X is in
"Lmao nah, lemme count the frame data of the n-air of Cloud now"

Also a lot of time infos are from Marketing People/ or translator heck. Even voices actor sometimes

People who don't really have a grasp/care about gameplay

 

[Opossum]

Reading comprehension = zero. All I asked about was why no leaker has mentioned anything about gameplay. Didn't talk about sales figures, how to sell a game, the roster or Melee until I was forced to.

So once again I just want to know why there's so much leaks around the roster but not one about gameplay. That's what I was asking. Maybe there was a leak that I missed.

Because at the end of the day the gameplay isn't the biggest draw. If you're going to go through the trouble of leaking things, you're going to leak what people ACTUALLY CARE about.

Not to mention the leakers probably aren't veteran Smash players so they'd have less reason to give out statements on gameplay that they likely don't know as well. It's easier to name a character than it is to know the ins and outs of wave dashing and landing lag and auto cancels.

 

[GrownManJones]

Because most of the times, leaker gets info like this.
>Work on Smash or know someone who work on it.
>Oh **** hear about X getting in- or know that X is in
"Lmao nah, lemme count the frame data of the n-air of Cloud now"

Also a lot of time infos are from Marketing People/ or translator heck. Even voices actor sometimes

People who don't really have a grasp/care about gameplay

Makes sense. You would think someone would say something like "Mario has a new Up-B attack." Or something like that. I suppose not.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Well you just wrote a 150+ word response to me and still didn't say anything relevant to what I was talking about except the Street Fighter comparison, which is a good comparison.

As you said when that new game comes out half the talk is about gameplay. Here zero talk is about gameplay and I was asking why. Your answer was no one cares about gameplay the roster sells the game. And you said it like a *******.

I'm not saying anything like an asshole. You're the one who said I had no reading comprehension and that it was hard. If anyone is being off putting, it's you? Because when people try to tell you the answer to your question? It's still met with WHY? We are literally giving you the answer and you're just sassing back at us for whatever reason.

 

[?????????????]

I'm sorry; I'm getting all worked up for no reason. It's completely reasonable to want to know how certain things in the gameplay are changing.

I have a lot of work I need to do irl, so I should get on that instead of stressing out and letting it out on here.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Why do you think there are so many roster leaks but not a single leak on actual gameplay? Such as it's 1.25 times faster than Sm4sh, or they brought back ledge/wave dashing.

Probably because the people who aren't trustworthy enough to keep things behind closed doors don't get to play the game for extended periods of time, if at all. Also, it's just easier to pass something like characters on, remember that the leakers themselves aren't the ones who might have seen something of the game, it's their sources who have, so having to rely on word of mouth largely means that things have to be kept simple, and when we're talking gameplay changes a lot of the interesting things lie in details like air dodges, ledges, shields, etc, which isn't easy to simplify. Also, there's simply the chance that the leakers aren't very big Smash fans, so they might not care for/understand what changes that might be in that regard.

Gameplay is simply something we'll have to wait for E3 to hear anything about, and even then that'll just be first impressions of a potentially outdated build.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The reality is, Smash sells on characters. This is ultimately what gets the most attention via leaks.

It doesn't mean other stuff is entirely irrelevant, and it's absolutely fine to be interesting in gameplay changes. It's not like everybody cares about the roster, you know? It's just the easiest to leak, and likewise, helps bust leaks.

 

[New_Dumal]

I think Sakurai tries his best to not be biased about games he made/worked on... sometimes he fails at it.
But his work is not a easy one, it's harder to develop personality and characters into things you do not own/create.
I mean, having Palutena and Pit talk about other characters is easier to be made than make the same with Mario or Zelda, or Cloud. He can't know what this characters would say or how they could react without checking with people that are responsible for them. There's a limit in his freedom that is much larger in franchises he have high influence.

That being said, I'm cool with his bias.
He is a awesome developer that helped Nintendo a lot; gave new life to Kid Icarus and helped popularizing Fire Emblem.
My major problem with Sakurai bias is quite the opposite, his "I personally don't like/experienced this" bias.
It's this that make he underepresent almost everything that is not JP based, as Donkey Kong Country.
We also never got a third-party from a not-JP company. If he wants to add Kid Icarus, Xenoblade, Kirby and Fire Emblem... I'm okay with his.
In my point of view he kind of deserves this. But at the same time he must open his mind to things that are not of his liking or knowledge.

 

[Baskerville]

Getting rid of Rage and other inconsistencies/janky **** (2 frame ledge punish, magnet ledges and random untechables just to name a few) would already make it better than Smash 4 for me.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Oh, I'm just saying the fact of the matter is the competitive side of Smash is the smaller community. It's okay to want to know what the game plays like if you're into that.

But to focus on that when leaking the game as a whole is pretty irrelevant as an act, because it's just not what the larger part of the community wants to hear about when they're looking up Smash Leaks. Fake or not.

 

[Opossum]

Makes sense. You would think someone would say something like "Mario has a new Up-B attack." Or something like that. I suppose not.

Another thing is that if the leakers are only going off of, say, a small bit of footage as their source, it's possible things like that weren't shown off.

For example, people didn't know until one of the pre-release tournaments that Donkey Kong got his rolling dash attack, as it was something the marketing materials never showed off.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

Okay, I'll be more blunt then.

No leaker is talking about the gameplay because Smash Bros. has had the same gameplay since it was created. There's nothing to talk about. Yes, maybe there's some new things like Side Bs, Air Dodges, and Final Smashes, but otherwise, we already KNOW what the gameplay will be.



Okay...but you already like Smash Bros., right?

So you already know you'll like the gameplay.

Actually, I like Melee and Smash 4's gameplay over Brawl. I find 64 the most fun. Smash 4 and Brawl already has all the Nintendo characters I've ever wanted, so if Smash Switch plays like crap, there's little reason for me to care about it.
But yeah, leakers would rarely have interest in the gameplay as we would, and i doubt even they would even understand the ramifications of specific gameplay alterations.

 

[GrownManJones]

Getting rid of Rage and other inconsistencies/janky **** (2 frame ledge punish, magnet ledges and random untechables just to name a few) would already make it better than Smash 4 for me.

Thank you! That's what I was talking about, stuff like this.

I typed it at the obviously the wrong time though, when roster discussion is super hot right now. I'll afk too so everyone can get back to being happy and talking about Ridley lol.

 

[Nekoo]

Okay so, my three cent about the Mintecraft source?

It feels weird- but I could see it happening, like a Stage honestly.
Though weirdly it's so out of the blue with the rest of the speculation/leaks that I'm confused-
And I'm also on the side of "It's not because it's Microsoft that it means that Banjo is in"

And i'm also on the side of "Is it the same source as Snake/Ridley/Simon/Ice climber? Or is it another source yet"

Interesting but confusing~

 

[Murlough]

I do think some aspects of smash 4's design should be changed or reduced (randomly untechable techs, rage mechanic, better counterplay to recoveries in general, less safe defensive neutral options, lack of combos), but I don't think it's a deciding factor for many people's purchases. Most smash owners are likely semi-casual players (mostly children) who just want a good time to play with friends with items on.

The inability to tech on parts of the stages needs to go. The 30% chance to be incapable of teching needs to go. I feel the combos in Smash 4 are relatively balanced other than Bayo's.

But yeah, as a competitive player myself: New Characters > Gameplay Changes

The gameplay is super important but I'm willing to bet tripping is never coming back. Even if they fix none of the issues in Smash 4 I'll still play the game.

 

[P.Kat]

Outside of Roy, I'm not personally attached to any of the FE characters in Smash; I know cuts are always a possibility, but... it feels wrong to me that someone actively wants that other character ended up being cut.

Despite all of us wanting is it

Maybe Ubisoft doesn't wants to give Rayman to nintendo more than a stupid thropy... after all, we got a Mario + Rabbids game without a single Rayman.

But Ubisoft pushed for Rayman during the Smash Ballot so I'm sure that Ubisoft wouldn't do that.

 

[New_Dumal]

There's another reason behind why we got little to none gameplay-wise leaks.

• Expiration date (for gameplay-wise leaks) is E3.

With characters or stages leaks you can go for the "It was not showed YET".
But if you say the game is faster than Smash4 and the game is showed having the same speed, you're already proven fake.

Other reasons:

• It's funny but people in general care more about the characters than about the game itself (builds more hype).
• Gameplay changes are harder to explain
• There are less people who knows about gameplay of the game than about characters. Characters leak can happened into translation, marketing, a lot of stuff. Subtle gameplay-wise changes must be done by the group that develops or test the game, making this a much more dangerous leak.

 

[WaddleMatt]

1.) If it were up to you, who would YOU pick to represent Rhythm Heaven?
2.) Who should be the second Sonic character in Smash (if there had to be one)?

1. I have said this so many times now, but I REALLY want Rhythm Girl! A character based around dance is something incredibly unique in my opinion and it seems like something Sakurai would take a look at.

2. It has got to be Tails, hasn't it?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm just saying?

You really do need to stop because there might be a day when you have egg on your face about Geno, because you seem to really steadfast fight even the slightest idea of him in Smash and it's not even remotely this impossibility you're making it out to be, it's unlikely at least, but not this one hundred percent never happening thing you're so prone to harp in on?

The moment someone even remotely mentions him in passing.

Eh, if Geno makes it in, I'll just shrug and move on.

 

[papagenos]

Its likely leakers dont see the game at all, let alone sit down and play it.

its almost certainly word of mouth behind the scenes in meetings and stuff that the info gets passed down and eventually around to someone who leaks it from someone else who probably just heard rumors or at best maybe saw a screen shot for like a marketing type scenario.

Anyone who actually has seen an early reveal trailer or actually played some form of demo is not going to be a leaker, thats going to be people way to deep in nintendo to risk that or care about internet fame.

closer to release when reviewers/people in charge of censorship and age rating/shippers and manufacturers/people who write game guides etc... get involved then we might get leaks with concrete gameplay info but for now its at best word of mouth behind the scenes that sakurai decided to add so and so as a character this time.

 

[P.Kat]

I knew Nintendog would finally get a playable character!

What?! Clearly that's Amaterasu from Okami

If Snake is back, I truly hope we get the Codec discussion once again.

They were miles better than the Palutena guidance

I don't know about miles better, but they were amazing. If we could I'd love to have both.

 

[Roberk]

FE Support conversations should be the new codex.

I haven't played Splatoon but I'd be down for the Squid Sisters being the new codex of this game.

 

[Originality]

FE Support conversations should be the new codex.

I haven't played Splatoon but I'd be down for the Squid Sisters being the new codex of this game.

Squid Sisters would be cool I guess, but I don't really see it happening. With the Octo Expansion coming up I can see a lot of people (mostly myself) being disappointed that Pearl and Marina most likely weren't a thing in time to be a codex.

 

[Baskerville]

It's hard for me to really get invested in character speculation since a lot of the characters I REALLY wanted/big Nintendo characters are already present in Smash 4. There's only a handful left but they've all been discussed to death already so whatever I say will just be parroting.

The inability to tech on parts of the stages needs to go. The 30% chance to be incapable of teching needs to go. I feel the combos in Smash 4 are relatively balanced other than Bayo's.

But yeah, as a competitive player myself: New Characters > Gameplay Changes

The gameplay is super important but I'm willing to bet tripping is never coming back. Even if they fix none of the issues in Smash 4 I'll still play the game.

I'm really hoping they map footstooling to the D-Pad this time so we can have no more accidental footstool kills.

 

[Zeox]

If Ridley really ends being playable... how much the internet will break? what will be the reaction in all the webs? how many reaction videos would be on youtube?

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Master Cheif is a skin in Minecraft Switch, does that techinally count as an appearance on a Nintendo console?

Include his near DS appearance and he’s ready for Smash...obviously

Oh boy have I got the THING for you!

Amazing

 

[Murlough]

It's hard for me to really get invested in character speculation since a lot of the characters I REALLY wanted/big Nintendo characters are already present in Smash 4. There's only a handful left but they've all been discussed to death already so whatever I say will just be parroting.

I'm really hoping they map footstooling to the D-Pad this time so we can have no more accidental footstool kills.

Yeeeeees, accidental footstools need to burn. You said the 2 frame thing too which I completely agree with. If they just hit these things Smash 5 will be so much better both competitively and casually.

 

[T-Hell]

If Ridley really ends being playable... how much the internet will break? what will be the reaction in all the webs? how many reaction videos would be on youtube?

You bet your ass there will be a lot of reaction videos from E3, and when it comes to Smash, I will be watching a lot of them. Yes, I'm the kind of guy who enjoys watching reaction videos.

 

[NobleClamtasm]

FE Support conversations should be the new codex.

I haven't played Splatoon but I'd be down for the Squid Sisters being the new codex of this game.

Support convos actually would be pretty fun when you think about it. Imagine if you can fight with specific characters for a number of battles you'd be able to unlock special skits between them.

After watching lots of crossover material like the Marvel movies and Blazblue Cross Tag, I've noticed that the biggest thing that Smash is missing is character interactions. It's always very interesting to see all these different character personalities that we know and love clashing with each other. There's also a lot of potential with fanservice with references to various Nintendo games, which made the Snake codex so great. Problem is, it would only be limited to characters who can talk, like the FE characters, Kid Icarus, Star Fox. Mario can grunt and goes Yippie Yahoo, but I doubt he can hold a conversation, lol.

 

[WaddleMatt]

A conversation on an Animal Crossing stage I think could end up being surprisingly humourous.

 

[T-Hell]

I really hope that in the coming days, Emily and Vergeben keep teasing us with info, just for the sake of hyping up the E3 and having new stuff to conversate and speculate about.

 

[Minch]

What's everyone's beef with Minecraft?

Everyone's played it at one point in their life.
It's been around for years and is constantly seeing a huge player base. It's literally available on everything.
Is it too childish now? Too blocky? Or just not worthy to be in Smash?

It's definitely the biggest game of this generation and would have massive pull in getting new players into Smash.

That's the point with these big name newcomers: getting new players to buy the game.

The problem people have with Smash speculation is that they live in their own bubble of what they deem important. A character, stage or gameplay mechanic is sentimental and important to them, so they feel personally attacked when that isn't represented in Smash.

So the idea of something that they personally dislike getting into Smash over their own idea becomes the worst thing in the world.

Fans of the game are going to buy it no matter what.

People need to take a step back and think bigger. And no that's not a Ridley pun. Him being in Smash is a long time coming, but he's not a household name helping to sell additional copies.

Minecraft sells. Period. If Sakurai wants that represented in the game it's a huge win.