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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Tree Gelbman

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that would be getting too close of characters that are not from videogames.
They're super important to Sora thematically though. Kingdom Hearts is about friendship. Donald and Goofy are Sora's closest friends in his journey in those games. It'd feel weird to at least not have them in his Final Smash.

The Disney of it all tells me they wouldn't let him use them even for that though.
 

T-Hell

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More bad news for the Crash/Spyro/Toad leak this morning: It has been Double-Deconfirmed by Wal-marts leak of Sonic Team Racing https://kotaku.com/walmart-leak-reveals-team-sonic-racing-1826416362. The leaker misidentifies sonic characters as running rather than being in cars. I definitely feel like this leak is outright dead in addition to the Pokemon information dropped yesterday. The 4chan link: https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/414524048
Lazzyman: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/76571076
There's probably some other fake e3 leaks dropped dead by this news too.
That ironically and funnily enough gives the riddler leak a little bit more credit since it doesn't have any of those 3. But yeah, still..
 

Nekoo

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Actually?

This does seem like something Sakurai might do. RPG's are about party members. No RPG rep we have thus far does this concept.

However the fact Mallow hasn't been requested as heavily as Geno is what makes me think it unlikely, but I can certainly see a Sakurai thought pattern going on in that idea.
That's What makes me septical about this leak it feels like Sakurai went to Square as if it was a convenience store "So gimmie cloud, Geno, Mallow...Oh! And Sora!" Like, Square suddenly opened to Sakurai

Though maybe the Cloud's Discussion (if my theory is right about him getting Cloud's right for both DLC and smash switch) opened a friendly relationship with them and Sakurai as we saw with him getting a Geno mii

Alongside that, we never had any reason of why Sakurai couldn't realize Geno even if he wanted to. Maybe it wasn't the licencing issue the problem... Maybe it was that he wanted to include the party system but couldn't make it happen? Maybe Mallow solve issue that Sakurai faced with Geno Alone?

I dunno- just that the heavy square focus of this leaks seems weeeird
 

papagenos

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While I lean towards "simon,ridley, and IC with no cuts" being probably true (and im happy about it if it is) I'm not so sure about the riddle leak (sora just seems tough to believe imo) but if that was the roster I's be very very happy with it.

That said "cutting" the clones might still not contradict the "no cuts" as its possible ESPECIALLY with BOTW link being all but confirmed this game might feature alt costumes with alt movesets or some other possibility where dr. mario,lucina, and dark pit are not on the character select but are indeed in the game and not "cut" but you could say either way and it'd still be the truth. Also its possible if they are just completely cut the reasoning is to save them for DLC as it both gets them in the game while also not making the base roster "full of clones" or whatever people tend to complain about there.

A thing that I been thinking... After the game is released you think there will be a second ballot?
I'd say no. I think they got plenty of info on who people want for smash the first time around and will just go from there with DLC or future smash games, hasn't been long enough imo theres not that many new "characters" people would vote for in the last few years and any that there are (ARMS for instance) nintendo probably doesn't need a ballot to know people might want them in smash.
 

NintendoKnight

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I think it's weird how surprised people act that some of us dislike clones. I'm more "meh" about them, but I'd prefer not to have clone characters on the roster. I already know the "They're just dessert and don't take up development time" so I don't get mad and think they're taking up a "slot", but I'd still rather not have literal spaces taken up by them. Just a preference though.

I would much rather see a clone character cut than a unique character, even if I didn't like the character. But it also really depends on how "cloney" they are.

Dr Mario is barely a clone at this point. Lucina is my least favorite one. I understand she is a popular character, but when she's running across the stage, it just looks like Marth with longer hair. I know Sakurai explained why he didn't just make her an alt...but she could've just been an alt and I think it would've been fine.

Regardless of how "little effort" it takes to put clones in, it's still effort and development time, and when there are issues with balance and game mechanics, it'll always make people think "x clone" character took time away from fixing those issues.
Honestly though, there's no point in cutting them. If you cut out the clones, you're just left with a roster that has 3 less characters.

In my opinion, the more the merrier. Also, I do believe that clones should eventually receive a promotion from cloneship. (Ganondorf on my hit list as highest priority of large overhaul). However, I do feel Dark Pit should be given some difference and that Lucina should be updated to more closely match Chrom's style... or just alter her stance.

Watch, this Smash might end up creating more clones. Every game has had at least one clone, I'd be surprised if this one didn't.
 

Murlough

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Goroh, if he gets in, may be done in a way to also (FINALLY) reveal a new F-Zero game. Besides Capt. Falcon is a huge success as a character in Smash and Sakurai could be attempting to repeat that.

Porky is weird but Sakurai loves weird.

I know a lot of people don't seem to want more Kid Icarus characters but I'm all for it. Bring in Medusa. I bet Japan would love it.

Even though Viridi is cooler....

I don't think Krystal has a chance in Smash at this point. Even her home series wants less to do with her than Mario wants to use Daisy. Its pretty tragic but it is what it is.
 

SirCamp

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That ironically and funnily enough gives the riddler leak a little bit more credit since it doesn't have any of those 3. But yeah, still..
Not really. The rumor being proven false doesn't imply none of those characters are in. It just means the supposed leaker was making stuff up. If I said that Ashley from WarioWare is definitely getting in Smash, I'd be making it up because I have no information to that effect. She could still get added though. My claim and the truth just wouldn't be connected at all.

In the same vein, if Crash were indeed in Smash and Vergeben (sp?) or the imgur leak included Crash they would still be right. The difference would just be that one had access to real information and one was just guessing and got lucky with one character. This just proves that the Spyro/Crash/Toad leak isn't based on any actual information. It doesn't prove that they aren't in the game.
 
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osby

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Also its possible if they are just completely cut the reasoning is to save them for DLC as it both gets them in the game while also not making the base roster "full of clones" or whatever people tend to complain about there.
If Corrin thought us anything, is that making a character optional will not make people complain less.
 

monadoboy

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With all this discussion about the imgur leaks, what is everyone’s opinion on the Vergeben leak it’s based on? What about comments from ResetEra mods hunting about Ridley (which would corroborate the Vergeben leak)? I know ridley is a divisive character, but do people here think this leak is likely enough for him to be a viable choice in prediction lists? Would likely be the biggest turnaround by Sakurai in recent memory though.
I want to see Ridley just to see what they'll do to make him work. However they manage to make him playable will be great and probably unexpected.
 

NintendoKnight

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Not really. The rumor being proven false doesn't imply none of those characters are in. It just means the supposed leaker was making stuff up. If I said that Ashley from WarioWare is definitely getting in Smash, I'd be making it up because I have no information to that effect. She could still get added though. My claim and the truth just wouldn't be connected at all.

In the same vein, if Crash were indeed in Smash and Vergeben (sp?) or the imgur leak included Crash they would still be right. The difference would just be that one had access to real information and one was just guessing and got lucky with one character. This just proves that the Spyro/Crash/Toad leak isn't based on any actual information. It doesn't prove that they aren't in the game.
That reminds me of the Palutena leak for Sm4sh:



The leak was fake, but Palutena was still in the game.

If Corrin thought us anything, is that making a character optional will not make people complain less.
That's a weird way of spelling Bayonetta. :troll:
 

papagenos

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If Corrin thought us anything, is that making a character optional will not make people complain less.
Good point, and im a total corrin complainer btw.

I think the more likely thing is the alt costumes with alt movesets/playstyles being pretty likely and so although they'd be "off" the roster they wouldn't be cut just reduced to a costume/playstyle choice for their base characters. I don't think anyone would complain about that.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

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I hope this time DK, Metroid and Zelda find some love...

Oh and there is one character that we all know we deeply want...



A thing that I been thinking... After the game is released you think there will be a second ballot?
I doubt it, but why not? If it helps for DLC/Future games!
 
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Zeox

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Even if Ridley is once again not a playable character, he would be a boss or be in the game in one form or another, the question is... would he use his Other M looks again, or his Samus Returns looks?
 

osby

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Good point, and im a total corrin complainer btw.

I think the more likely thing is the alt costumes with alt movesets/playstyles being pretty likely and so although they'd be "off" the roster they wouldn't be cut just reduced to a costume/playstyle choice for their base characters. I don't think anyone would complain about that.
Tbh, a fan game made me pretty cold towards this "different playstyle, same slot" thing. It just makes it harder to choose who you want on a whim.
 

T-Hell

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I don't see the team of Geno and Mallow that unthinkable tbh. Maybe Sakurai this time around just finally wanted to make it's fans happy and he was like "you know what? I'm doubling this, you're not only getting Geno but also Mallow".
Or maybe he just thought that pairing both would make a far more interesting character and moveset potential.

Guys, I know this could all still be fake af, but don't sleep on Sakurai, especially after the miracles from Smash 4.
I think that, instead of just saying "this looks strange and fake", we should analyze why exactly Sakurai COULD CONSIDER those ideas, especially those of you who know those characters and games better.

For example, a question to those big fans and lovers of Earthbound/Mother: What could make Sakurai think Porky is all of a sudden a viable choice?

Daddy Sakurai is a miracle maker at this point, even if this is all fake, I would not doubt the odds of any of those characters at all.
 

Diddy Kong

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With all this discussion about the imgur leaks, what is everyone’s opinion on the Vergeben leak it’s based on? What about comments from ResetEra mods hunting about Ridley (which would corroborate the Vergeben leak)? I know ridley is a divisive character, but do people here think this leak is likely enough for him to be a viable choice in prediction lists? Would likely be the biggest turnaround by Sakurai in recent memory though.
No.

Anything mentoining Ridley garners huge attention from the Smash community, especially before E3.

I call it a troll move untill proved wrong.

And guess what?

With all the huge details in these "leaks" and given the fact we've only properly seen Inklings as newcomers, and just Mario and Link as veterans doing bascially nothing... it's gonna be REALLY HARD to discredit the "leaks" with what's about to be shown. Because I honestly can't believe they'll outdo Smash 4, or even Brawl, with the amount of new characters they are gonna show.

So what's left?

Say the leaks get ONE thing right in common, say, the Ice Climbers return and a newcomer that everyone anticipates and predicted AND is shown on the "leaks" is also showcased... Who's gonna say the "leaks" are true or false?

Way to get yourself trolled Smash community :rolleyes:

Said it once, and gonna say it again: unless something marginal akin to Wii Fit Trainer's prediction is gonna be leaked and predicted right, I won't believe ****.
 

Garteam

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Also Sora sort of sticks out to me.

But Sakurai has made the seemingly impossible task of getting rights to difficult characters before.

My question would? Donald and Goofy?
Probably neither. Getting Disney to approve a Sora design for Smash is one thing, but convincing them to put two of their flagship characters into a fighting game where they could potentially beat each other up is a pretty tall order.

My guess is Kingdom Hearts' inclusion in Smash would avoid mentioning any aspect of the franchise that involves Disney IPs.
 

Tree Gelbman

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Probably neither. Getting Disney to approve a Sora design for Smash is one thing, but convincing them to put two of their flagship characters into a fighting game where they could potentially beat each other up is a pretty tall order.

My guess is Kingdom Hearts' inclusion in Smash would avoid mentioning any aspect of the franchise that involves Disney IPs.
Then there's no point. Half of the reason Kingdom Hearts is iconic is because it's a clash of a gaming titan and an outside media titan.
 

SirCamp

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With all this discussion about the imgur leaks, what is everyone’s opinion on the Vergeben leak it’s based on? What about comments from ResetEra mods hunting about Ridley (which would corroborate the Vergeben leak)? I know ridley is a divisive character, but do people here think this leak is likely enough for him to be a viable choice in prediction lists? Would likely be the biggest turnaround by Sakurai in recent memory though.

I'm mostly fine with it, but I do find some things frustrating. Namely Porky and Goroh. I just don't see why we need another character from a dead series like Mother/F-Zero, but can't get characters like Isaac or Andy/Sami from series that have gotten no love so far. Relevancy clearly isn't a factor here, which is the biggest problem Isaac and Andy face, since Mother/F-Zero are also not relevant right now.

This is not to say that Mother and F-Zero should never get new characters, but I've always thought of Smash as being a party fighter that explores/spans Nintendo history, so I find it frustrating when series that I love seem to get no love from the developers. And to see them get no love, while other series that are equally irrelevant to modern Nintendo get love just feels off. I know people say reps aren't a thing, but wouldn't it be more interesting to have a character from Golden Sun AND F-Zero rather than 2 F-Zero characters? That more appropriately represents Nintendo as a whole in my opinion. And certainly feels more interesting to me.

Having said all that I can totally see it happening. I fully expect neither Isaac nor Andy to be included. Them getting passed over for other irrelevant characters would just make me salty. This would be lessened if these inclusions came with reboots to their respective franchises though. Because then the decisions would actually make sense to me.

Though now that I think of it, that would possibly just make me more salty. Because if we had gotten Isaac in Brawl, maybe we'd have seen the revival of Golden Sun by now that I so desperately want...
 

papagenos

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Tbh, a fan game made me pretty cold towards this "different playstyle, same slot" thing. It just makes it harder to choose who you want on a whim.
Fair enough. Even still without any leaks, with BOTW link shown and the fact our 3 "clones" were originally costumes, like it or not this idea hold some weight this time around.
 

Zeox

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For example, a question to those big fans and lovers of Earthbound/Mother: What could make Sakurai think Porky is all of a sudden a viable choice?
Mother 3 never got outside Japan... 2 years ago, we got the first english official translation of Mother 1 for the E-shop, but fans have always wanted a mother 3 english release for years and years, Nintendo knows it and they ever reference it in an E3.
This is a possible reason, a direct with Porky + the confirmation of Mother 3 in english.

That, or a release of the full trilogy of mother games, or a remake... but I think Mother 3 in english would be the more probable thing.
 

osby

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Then there's no point. Half of the reason Kingdom Hearts is iconic is because it's a clash of a gaming titan and an outside media titan.
It's true. Though funny thing is, I know a lot Of KH fans who just aren't interested in Disney side since it generally feels like an afterthought.
 

Diddy Kong

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I don't see the team of Geno and Mallow that unthinkable tbh. Maybe Sakurai this time around just finally wanted to make it's fans happy and he was like "you know what? I'm doubling this, you're not only getting Geno but also Mallow".
Or maybe he just thought that pairing both would make a far more interesting character and moveset potential.

Guys, I know this could all still be fake af, but don't sleep on Sakurai, especially after the miracles from Smash 4.
I think that, instead of just saying "this looks strange and fake", we should analyze why exactly Sakurai COULD CONSIDER those ideas, especially those of you who know those characters and games better.

For example, a question to those big fans and lovers of Earthbound/Mother: What could make Sakurai think Porky is all of a sudden a viable choice?

Daddy Sakurai is a miracle maker at this point, even if this is all fake, I would not doubt the odds of any of those characters at all.
EarthBound hasn't actually hit European shores before VC, and gained some popularity through the SNES Mini.

Plus, Porky was a boss in Brawl and since they balantly cut Lucas, a MOTHER newcomer wasn't on their priorities.

Due to the succes of Smash 4, and Smash Switch likely being build on it's engine and getting a lot of data ported over, it's easier to add more ambitious newcomers as say, Ridley and Porky. Granted that Sakurai took notice that people really want new characters from established franchises. MOTHER, like Metroid, Donkey Kong Country and Legend of Zelda are veteran Smash franchises with lots of popular characters.

I can envision it happening, but still won't believe these "leaks". Fun speculating about it however. For all we know, Sakurai simply wanted a new super heavy weight newcomer and just went with Porky because he felt he was cool or funny or something.
 

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Then there's no point. Half of the reason Kingdom Hearts is iconic is because it's a clash of a gaming titan and an outside media titan.
Honestly, that's exactly the reason I'm not big on the idea of Sora in Smash.

The Disney that Square made a deal for the original Kingdom Hearts has grown a lot more protective of its properties over the past 15+ years. I don't know if Nintendo really wants to fight an international giant just for the rights to mention Mickey Mouse in a game that is going to make millions without the Disney push.

Sora without Disney is essentially another Final Fantasy character, which is fine, but I'd rather see a full fedged Sora that represents what Kingdom Hearts is, Disney and all.
 

T-Hell

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No.

Anything mentoining Ridley garners huge attention from the Smash community, especially before E3.

I call it a troll move untill proved wrong.

And guess what?

With all the huge details in these "leaks" and given the fact we've only properly seen Inklings as newcomers, and just Mario and Link as veterans doing bascially nothing... it's gonna be REALLY HARD to discredit the "leaks" with what's about to be shown. Because I honestly can't believe they'll outdo Smash 4, or even Brawl, with the amount of new characters they are gonna show.

So what's left?

Say the leaks get ONE thing right in common, say, the Ice Climbers return and a newcomer that everyone anticipates and predicted AND is shown on the "leaks" is also showcased... Who's gonna say the "leaks" are true or false?

Way to get yourself trolled Smash community :rolleyes:

Said it once, and gonna say it again: unless something marginal akin to Wii Fit Trainer's prediction is gonna be leaked and predicted right, I won't believe ****.
Don't worry man, as you can read, most of us are very skeptical about these leaks, we just like to keep an optimistic view and have some fun debating. I don't think we are being trolled since, as I said, most of us are keeping it cautious, but yeah, I agree with you on the WFT thing.
 

Nekoo

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Vergeben is saying he's heard that Snake is back.

Obviously not as noteworthy as his Ridley claims which he has pinned three separate sources to, but it's a bold claim nonetheless. Coincidentally the Imgur leak also dared to say that Snake is back.
Boy... You know what. I'm willing to sell all of that Imgur leaks and get Pink gold peach, rabbits and Baby Mario instead if it means only Snake is back.
That's how much I JUST want snake back.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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Sakurai marching into Konami and Square Enix with a gun apparently.

''GIVE ME ALL YOUR ICONIC AND FAN REQUESTED CHARACTERS AND GIVE THEM TO ME NOW!"
 

SlickWylde

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Honestly though, there's no point in cutting them. If you cut out the clones, you're just left with a roster that has 3 less characters.

In my opinion, the more the merrier. Also, I do believe that clones should eventually receive a promotion from cloneship. (Ganondorf on my hit list as highest priority of large overhaul). However, I do feel Dark Pit should be given some difference and that Lucina should be updated to more closely match Chrom's style... or just alter her stance.

Watch, this Smash might end up creating more clones. Every game has had at least one clone, I'd be surprised if this one didn't.
I guess I disagree with the "More the merrier" sentiment. I'd rather have less characters that are well thought out than "fluff" characters that are just skin swaps. (Not saying all, or even most smash clones are, just using this statement as an example).

I almost feel like there are too many characters at this point. The more characters you add, the harder it is to make them unique and balanced. Sakurai has done a great job so far.

And yes I agree with the idea that clones should receive a promotion!

And of course there will be more clones, every game has added at least one haha. And it doesn't bother me. But if 3 clones were cut, I wouldn't mind at all.
 

Zeox

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Vergeben is saying he's heard that Snake is back.

Obviously not as noteworthy as his Ridley claims which he has pinned three separate sources to, but it's a bold claim nonetheless. Coincidentally the Imgur leak also dared to say that Snake is back.
That doesn't confirms anything... but, at the same time, it doesn't disconfirms anything, and that's the interesting part.
But it can either be coincidence, of Vergeben leak is fake, he saw about the imgur leak and decided to mess with our heads.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Vergeben is saying he's heard that Snake is back.

Obviously not as noteworthy as his Ridley claims which he has pinned three separate sources to, but it's a bold claim nonetheless. Coincidentally the Imgur leak also dared to say that Snake is back.
This lines up exactly with my thinking. Humoring this rumor, it doesn't really make sense that Snake wouldn't return unless Sakurai felt so strongly about it (but why would he even work with them for Simon then).

I also think the fact that Veregben is still talking helps. It's not like his a one time leaker just looking for some fame. I just hope this info is from his more reputable source.

I need to post my updated prediction roster quick before he says anything else lol.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

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Vergeben is saying he's heard that Snake is back.

Obviously not as noteworthy as his Ridley claims which he has pinned three separate sources to, but it's a bold claim nonetheless. Coincidentally the Imgur leak also dared to say that Snake is back.

Oh boi am I ready to cry if Vergeben is wrong.
If he is correct AND the imgur leak is real though...

I don't know, I'm not certain a lot of people would be happy with Porky and Goroh.
Geno + Mallow, Sora, Ridley, K. Rool and Dixie would have a great reception though.
Mimikyu is my personnal top choice.
Zelda gets the short stick once again, followed by Kirby.
Elma is a nice choice I suppose, didn't play XCX.
Takamaru is a good retro rep. And I suppose Ice Climbers fit the role of second retro character despite being a veteran?
No Captain Toad, Dee or Isabelle. Sad.
Rayman is missing and I'm crying.

Sakurai marching into Konami and Square Enix with a gun apparently.

''GIVE ME ALL YOUR ICONIC AND FAN REQUESTED CHARACTERS AND GIVE THEM TO ME NOW!"
New rule in the industry. Sakurai is a gangsta.
 
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What do you think the name will be?

I don't really know what do discuss now, leak talk's getting pretty boring to me.

My friend thinks it will be named "Super Smash Bros: Apocalypse" or something like that.

It will probably just be Super Smash Bros: Switch or something generic in my eyes.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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Oh boi am I ready to cry if Vergeben is wrong.
If he is correct AND the imgur leak is real though...

I don't know, I'm not certain a lot of people would be happy with Porky and Goroh.
Geno + Mallow, Sora, Ridley, K. Rool and Dixie would have a great reception though.
Mimikyu is my personnal top choice.
Zelda gets the short stick once again, followed by Kirby.
Elma is a nice choice I suppose, didn't play XCX.
Takamaru is a good retro rep. And I suppose Ice Climbers fit the role of second retro character despite being a veteran?
No Captain Toad, Dee or Isabelle. Sad.
Rayman is missing and I'm crying.



New rule in the industry. Sakurai is a gangsta.
Linking it to Emily, this kinda fits the "Can't make everyone happy". Then again I don't know if Medusa, Porky and Goroh would really be ultimate roster worthy...

Just speculating before anyone gets on my case for "trusting leaks"!
 
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