Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Trying to play Smash Switch with a single Joy-Con controller probably wouldn't be a smart move.

 

[papagenos]

Trying to play Smash Switch with a single Joy-Con controller probably wouldn't be a smart move.

neither was playing with a single wii mote but it worked haha

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

neither was playing with a single wii mote but it worked haha

The problem mostly has to do with the amount of buttons that would be available. While a single Joy-Con is better than the solo Wii Remote, the SL and SR buttons are rather small when compared to the L and R buttons, and you would be one Control Stick short if you want to perform quick smash attacks.

Needless to say, if you're looking to become a competitive player, you'll likely need both Joy-Con controllers by your side.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The problem mostly has to do with the amount of buttons that would be available. While a single Joy-Con is better than the solo Wii Remote, the SL and SR buttons are rather small when compared to the L and R buttons, and you would be one Control Stick short if you want to perform quick smash attacks.

Needless to say, if you're looking to become a competitive player, you'll likely need both Joy-Con controllers by your side.

For casual play, joycons are just fine. I'm honestly more concerned about trying to play the game on the switch's screen like they're probably gonna advertise

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

For casual play, joycons are just fine. I'm honestly more concerned about trying to play the game on the switch's screen like they're probably gonna advertise

While you are supposed to advertise what the Nintendo Switch can do, for an invitational tournament, it's probably better if the Switch systems are docked.

 

[papagenos]

playing multiplayer with everyone on their own switch is what im most excited about, control scheme wise anyway. I had a lot of fun playing smash on the 3ds before the wiiu version launched but the controls werent so great, the switch isnt perfect but it has sticks and proper trigger buttons much more like playing on the wiiu gamepad which was neat to have your own screen but didn't allow for a bunch of friends to all connect and play that way, just one.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I just want them to finally do what they've intended since Brawl and give every character their own unique victory theme. Dark Pit, Meta Knight, Rosalina, and Bowser already have theirs, and all the single reps don't need to be messed with. Shouldn't be too much work I figure.

As cool as this would be, I don’t think every character should have a unique victory theme, just the ones that makes the most sense (/, Cap.Toad, some newcomers)

Well I would like to argue that being AT means she could potentially have her foot in the door as a newcomer character just like Little Mac, but that's still not enough evidence to argue with. At most since Kid Icarus is his baby, at most we'll see at least two newcomers if they de-clone Dark Pit's moveset, or three if they drop Dark Pit which I don't see happening.

Closest thing to decloning Dark Pit is to give both angles exclusive customs since he’s a literal clone who fights 90-100% like Pit (matter of fact, every KI character, Sonic, Ryu, and Megaman should have customs that are entirely different from the actual move)

 

[Troykv]

As cool as this would be, I don’t think every character should have a unique victory theme, just the ones that makes the most sense (/, Cap.Toad, some newcomers)


Closest thing to decloning Dark Pit is to give both angles exclusive customs since he’s a literal clone who fights 90-100% like Pit (matter of fact, every KI character, Sonic, Ryu, and Megaman should have customs that are entirely different from the actual move)

You reminder me that in Fates the FE Theme only appears in some very small places (the ending of Revelations and in the credits, appearing like a interlude between several versions of Hitori Omou and other Fates Theme).

 

[TMNTSSB4]

You reminder me that in Fates the FE Theme only appears in some very small places (the ending of Revelations and in the credits, appearing like a interlude between several versions of Hitori Omou and other Fates Theme).

I think they had the main FE theme used very sparingly to hype up Lost in Thoughts and to promote how Revelations is the one and only correct path (Camilla seduction+Awakening Crew+Percy vs Ryoma+Real Family didn’t help others go down the right path)

 

[MopedOfJustice]

While you are supposed to advertise what the Nintendo Switch can do, for an invitational tournament, it's probably better if the Switch systems are docked.

Is it even a question that they'll just use normal controllers?

 

[Garteam]

I just realized, if Lara Croft gets into Smash, this is officially 3/5 of the way to being canon.

Spoiler

 

[TMNTSSB4]

I just realized, if Lara Croft gets into Smash, this is officially 3/5 of the way to being canon.

Spoiler

Lara Croft (either good version of her) for Smash

 

[SmashChu]

For casual play, joycons are just fine. I'm honestly more concerned about trying to play the game on the switch's screen like they're probably gonna advertise

I think it will be fine. The 3DS game managed. What I expect is that the stages will be built for the smaller screen. You'll probably see more stages close to the 3DS version with nothing bigger than Temple. I don't expect they'll do 8 Player Smash unless its for a very specific mode.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I think it will be fine. The 3DS game managed. What I expect is that the stages will be built for the smaller screen. You'll probably see more stages close to the 3DS version with nothing bigger than Temple. I don't expect they'll do 8 Player Smash unless its for a very specific mode.

with the 3ds you get your own screen each tho

 

[FlareHabanero]

While I agree with @Scoliosis Jones for the most part, there is one bit I sort of disagree on.

One last thing, relating to Omni. Yesterday he tweeted that he believes the Smash fanbases needs to steer away from “representing” as an argument. Characters should be seen as characters that are a part of their franchises.

I disagree with this bit. Not the fact that people use "representation" as an argument, but more so the fact people use "representation" in the wrong way. You can use representation as an argument, but it should more so focus on why that representation would make a particular character stand out. Like how a character would cater to a particular demographic or introduce a new aesthetic or fighting style. It should less so be based on "this character should represent this specific game" and more like "this character could represent this genre or series by translating it's mechanics into a new idea". So even if you don't recognize the character, you can still gravitate towards a particular characteristic that sounds appealing.

Me personally, this is a common theme I have when it comes to characters I want. An example are Lip and Arle. The puzzle genre has rather weak representation on the roster, with only Dr. Mario being the closest thing to a dedicated example. But I want either character to actually incorporate elements from that genre. Like a common theme with those type of games is both setting up for large chains and hindering the opponent using garbage to prevent that, and I feel like there's a possible concept right there that could be translated into a setting like Super Smash Bros.

Another example is with Rhythm Heaven's Chorus Kids. The rhythm genre similarly has weak representation on the roster, but I want the character to actually take elements from the genre to create something fresh. Like a gimmick that rewards the player using moves in a specific rhythm or tempo, just like how rhythm games do it.

TL;DR

Representation isn't inherently flawed. Fans just need to have better justifications for the context of fighters.

 

[Troykv]

I think they had the main FE theme used very sparingly to hype up Lost in Thoughts and to promote how Revelations is the one and only correct path (Camilla seduction+Awakening Crew+Percy vs Ryoma+Real Family didn’t help others go down the right path)

Yeah... I think they went a bit too far with the use of HitoriOmou/LiTaA xD

 

[Fenriraga]

neither was playing with a single wii mote but it worked haha

Kinda off topic, but there was a guy ay my local who played with Wiimote. Not only that, but he set 2 to jump and 1 to attack. I think B was his specials. So basically, he played Megaman like NES Mega Man.

He obviously never made it far, but the few matches he won were hype as hell, haha.

 

[SmashChu]

with the 3ds you get your own screen each tho

The stages on the 3DS in general were smaller so it was easy enough to see. The smaller screen is always going to be an issue for the Switch, so I think we'll see stages that are more that size than the ones in Smash Wii U.

 

[papagenos]

Kinda off topic, but there was a guy ay my local who played with Wiimote. Not only that, but he set 2 to jump and 1 to attack. I think B was his specials. So basically, he played Megaman like NES Mega Man.

He obviously never made it far, but the few matches he won were hype as hell, haha.

Thats insanely cool.

i loved punch-out!! for wii cause i could essentially play it exactly like the nes one using a single wii mote. so awesome.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Yeah... I think they went a bit too far with the use of HitoriOmou/LiTaA xD

They probably won’t do the same thing next time

 

[Garteam]

I think the concept of thinking in terms of "reps" from each series stems from two statements about Sakurai that are true: relevant games are more looked at for potential characters and Sakurai tries to avoid overrepresentation.

Sakurai has stated in the past that characters from more relevant games have a better chance of getting in, stating that Fire Emblem Awakening's release falling so close to the finalization of the project plan led to him Robin. Likewise, Sakurai had some initial concerns with Corrin because he was a 6th Fire Emblem character.

However, Sakurai doesn't force himself to add a character from a specific game/series even if that series "deserves" another rep for whatever reason, which is where thinking of the characters as "reps" goes wrong. What matters more is the character and what they can do, rather than what game/franchise they represent. If, for example, Sakurai doesn't see any potential in the Sun/Moon cast, he's not going to add those characters regardless of how recent or popular their games are.

 

[ZAHÍRITΣiΚΛ]

still holding out on that one leak that had Crash and Spyro in it from early in the month. I don't even play their games, but I'd be so hype.

 

[Just a random scrub]

Do you see Waluigi as a Mario character or a Wario character ?

I.... am not very sure.

Personally, though, I would make him represent the Wario series. Although he hasn't appeared in a Wario game, he's still Wario's cousin or brother or at least his closest companion, plus, since this means he wouldn't technically be appearing as a Mario representative, it would also be good for those who want many Mario characters but don't want the main Mario series to have too many newcomers.

 

[papagenos]

still holding out on that one leak that had Crash and Spyro in it from early in the month. I don't even play their games, but I'd be so hype.

didnt that leak come with predicting pokemon lets go pikachu (which seems to be real)? i'm surprised the "not cuts/ridley/simon" leak seemed to have out shined it, thats the one i hear most people around the internet discussing.

 

[ZAHÍRITΣiΚΛ]

didnt that leak come with predicting pokemon lets go pikachu (which seems to be real)? i'm surprised the "not cuts/ridley/simon" leak seemed to have out shined it, thats the one i hear most people around the internet discussing.

it got a lot right so far I think, including Black Ops being a Battle Royal thing.

 

[Pazzo.]

Smash 5 is now a Battle Royal shooter game.

Why do you think Inklings were shown first?

 

[SchAlternate]

Smash 5 is now a Battle Royal shooter game.

Why do you think Inklings were shown first?

Dabbing Thanos confirmed for Smash.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's already been proven he sometimes looks towards a relevant game simply because he wants a representation from that game.

It doesn't mean it's a highly used thing. Reps do actually exist. But it's not that often regardless. He does care, but it doesn't mean it alone is going to get a character in. It's clear that he doesn't just look for a rep of the franchise, just more a game in a particular franchise. For instance, Rosaline's all about Galaxy, which was the main game that did it for him, hence her own gameplay style, which is more than just being a Puppet Master. She uses gravitational moves, including floating, and such. That's her key focus.

Another great example is Ness. His special moves aren't ones he can normally use. Instead, it's about showing off the PSI in EarthBound/Mother. This type of thing is normal.

A good way to look at it is this; some characters are intended to represent something from their games. Some characters are literally meant to be a rep from a particular game(not so much franchise). And some are just interesting ideas he wants to make work. And then there's Retros. And 3rd parties(who don't all follow the exact same guidelines, though to be fair, Bayonetta is the only real case where this happens after the guidelines were made).

There's just a lot he does, and not every character follows the same guidelines, even ones that fall under the same category of additions can make exceptions here and there.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Theory: Only male Inklings will be playable in Smash Switch due to Link killing the female ones after the original hit him with a blue shell in Mario Kart

 

[Chandeelure]

Let's talk about this probably fake leak for fun!

https://imgur.com/a/H8bcips

The list is probably:

Spoiler

1. Ice Climbers
2. Mimikyu or maybe Decidueye
3. Elma
4. Chorus Kids
5. Takamaru
6. Dixie Kong
7. Wolf
8. No idea, maybe Waddle Dee
9. No idea, maybe Tetra
10. No idea
11. No idea, maybe Porky lol
12. Samurai Goroh
13. Simon Belmont
14. No idea
15. Geno
16. Labo

 

[Munomario777]

Dabbing Thanos confirmed for Smash.

I can die happy now

 

[Cosmic77]

If, for example, Sakurai doesn't see any potential in the Sun/Moon cast, he's not going to add those characters regardless of how recent or popular their games are.

Totally agree with your point, but Zelda and BotW or Mario and Odyssey might have been better examples. No other series comes close to having as many potential characters as Pokémon. If Sakurai can't see potential in any of the Sun/Moon Pokémon, then I'd ask him to put in his contacts and take a second look.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Let's talk about this probably fake leak for fun!

https://imgur.com/a/H8bcips

The list is probably:

Spoiler

1. Ice Climbers
2. Mimikyu or maybe Decidueye
3. Elma
4. Chorus Kids
5. Takamaru
6. Dixie Kong
7. Wolf
8. No idea, maybe Waddle Dee
9. No idea, maybe Tetra
10. No idea
11. No idea, maybe Porky lol
12. Samurai Goroh
13. Simon Belmont
14. No idea
15. Geno
16. Labo

While it's not the right kind of pistol, I would think 9 is Sheriff. 11 is definitely either Porky or Octolings. 14 is Sora.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Totally agree with your point, but Zelda and BotW or Mario and Odyssey might have been better examples. No other series comes close to having as many potential characters as Pokémon. If Sakurai can't see potential in any of the Sun/Moon Pokémon, then I'd ask him to put in his contacts and take a second look.

Mario overall and Fire Emblem are pretty close to matching Pokémon

 

[Chandeelure]

While it's not the right kind of pistol, I would think 9 is Sheriff. 11 is definitely either Porky or Octolings. 14 is Sora.

No, it's not Sora, it's actually Klefki.

 

[Cosmic77]

Mario overall and Fire Emblem are pretty close to matching Pokémon

Neither are close to Pokémon, especially not Mario. We've been pushing for Daisy, Waluigi, Paper Mario, and (Captain) Toad since Brawl. FE is a lot better, but it still doesn't offer as many unique and realistic choices as Pokémon with each Smash game.

 

[ZAHÍRITΣiΚΛ]

Dabbing Thanos confirmed for Smash.

why have Thanos dab when we can have him

Spoiler

Mod edit: Images with flashing should be in spoilers and marked.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

The Versace one might be Style Savvy?

Fashion and what not.

 

[SmashChu]

One last thing, relating to Omni. Yesterday he tweeted that he believes the Smash fanbases needs to steer away from “representing” as an argument. Characters should be seen as characters that are a part of their franchises.

I agree.

That's not really new since people have been saying that for years. Its died down a lot since Brawl.

Really, you can boil down what matters into three factors

• Is the Character popular?
• Is the character unique in some way
• Is the character relevant (as in they have been seen in the last few years)

How much they matter differences, but for the most part you can look at these and they apply to every character added. The last one is important since, besides the guest and classic characters, everyone has fit that criteria.

Brawl

• Meta-Knight - Appeared in a lot of the Kirby games since Nightmare to Dreamland (2002)
• Zero Suit Samus - From Metroid Zero Mission (2004 or 2005)
• Wario - Been around, but the design is based of Wario Ware which came out in 2003
• Ike - From Path of Radience (2005)
• Pokemon Trainer - Pokemon Fire Red and Leaf Green (2004)
• Diddy Kong - Been around. Was appearing in Mario spin offs as well as King of Swing and Donkey Konga.
• Lucas - Mother 3 came out in 2006
• Olimar - Pikmin started on the Gamecube in 2001 and had a sequel in 2004
• Lucario - From the newest Pokemon game Diamond and Pearl
• Toon Link - Really just Young Link but he was based off the Wind Waker (2003)
• Wolf - Was in Starfox Assult and Starfox Command (2005)

Smash 3DS/Wii U

• Villager - Animal Crossing was Nintendo's biggest series without a character at that time. Last one was New Leaf which was 2013
• Wii Fit Trailer - Wii Fit - 2008
• Rosalina - She appeared in a ton of the Mario games: Galaxy 1 and 2, 3D World, and a lot of the spin-off games
• Little Mac - While technically considered one of the classic characters, we got a game in 2009
• Greninja - From the newest Pokemon game X/Y (2013)
• Palutena - Appeared again in Kid Icarus Uprising (2012)
• Robin - From Awakening (2013)
• Shulk - From Xenoblade Chronicles, new series that started in 2010 (in Japan)
• Bowser Jr - He was appearing in a lot of the Mario spinoffs but hes based on New Super Mario Bros U (2012)
• Lucina - Awakening
• Dark Pit - Palutena
• Corrin - Fates (goes without saying as he was added for being new)

As you can see, a lot of the roster is from newer games. That seemed to be a higher priority for Smash 3DS/WiiU, but it still happened for Brawl. None of the characters besides the classic character didn't have an appearance between the titles before it. That could change, mind you, but you have a better shot picking from the new characters. At a bear minimum, you might be closer to 50% if you follow this method as at least you get some of them.

This was a bit off topic, so let me tie this together. What Omni is saying is don't look at dumb criteria. We have never seen "reps" being a determining factor for adding characters. Heck, Fire Emblem got 3 new characters in this game. Something like "being current" does seem to matter. You could argue the same thing about popularity. During Brawl, being "popular" was hot. But we come to find out that just because a character is popular doesn't mean they'll be added (heck, look at Ridley). Something like using "current" characters will probably work better (though it doesn't guarentee that you'll be accurate).

 

[Deleted member]

So, there’s an alleged leak that I just found out about via SourceGaming, that someone is using Imgur to tease certain characters.
Skip to 23:55.

https://www.imgur.com/a/H8bcips