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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Zerp

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Wait, does shoo-in mean something different than what I thought it did? I thought it mean't something is/was extremely likely to happen, but does it actually mean something is guaranteed to happen?
I'm aware I can simply use google but this is a much more fun way of learning.
so, in order to change the topic (because the idea of goku in smash is physically painful) if smash 5 was as fast paced as melee, how well do you think melee players would transition? would people stick with melee or all swap to 5?
Depends on what exactly makes the game faster paced. If it's Melee mechanics like L-cancelling and wavedashing + Melee-style physics that makes the game go quicker, then yeah I can see a lot of people moving over from Melee, if Project M was the official version Brawl, then I think Melee would have died off for the most part. Melee's been thriving for a lot longer now than it was pre-Brawl and during Brawl so I don't think it'll die, but if Melee 2.0 the Smash title was ever made, I'd expect to see a lot more overlap between Switch and Melee players than what we had in 4 and Melee, but not everyone will move over for various reasons (personal preference for Melee over the new game, balance changes to their main turning them away, hardware differences, the inevitable slightly more input delay because no CRTs) and I assume a lot of people would want to play both of the games.

I think magnus is getting in, and I hope he gets announced and everyone says "well in hindsight it made a lot of sense and everyone predicted it", just like every other thing lol
"Well considering Sakurai JUST finished announcing five Fire Emblem characters at E3, it was obvious that Sakurai Bias had hit higher levels than what the nonbelievers thought was possible, Magnus was inevitable and anybody who didn't see him coming at that point was blind"
 

Zeox

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This is how meltdowns happen. What would you do if he actually got in? You just spent all that time trying to prove the notion of goku being impossible to people that are just saying the possibility exists. This is the kind of post I'd hang on a wall.

Or you could be completely correct, who knows. But to call the character a meme and to compare him to those joke characters is doing this discussion a disservice.
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/goku-in-super-smash-bros
Meme
Status > Confirmed
He call it a meme character because IT IS a meme character.
 

viewtifulduck82

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For a future Smash Bros game maybe. This game? Absolutely not.
Im curious, why do you think the circumstances could change for a game in the future?
I personally believe if it doesn't happen here it's never happening and we wont have to worry about it in the future.
 
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Zeox

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Honestly, if Goku gets in smash, so is Shrek, and if Shrek is in smash, so is Etika

Mod Edit: Image removed due to censor dodging.
 
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Nekoo

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True Blue Warrior

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Im curious, why do you think the circumstances could change for a game in the future?
I personally believe if it doesn't happen here it's never happening and we wont have to worry about it in the future.
Because nothing has changed to justify the idea that Sakurai would change his mind on Goku merely a year after he dismissed him in 2015 (which is when the roster for Smash Switch would have been finalised), in addition to the fact he was always against him since Brawl even when he introduced third-parties in Smash (and he was always aware of Goku's popularity, mind you). The only way in which Goku could make it in is when Sakurai is no longer directing Smash, which will eventually happen.

Ridley being big is a meme. Ridley requests in of themselves aren't, neither is him being in Smash in general, which is why that comparison doesn't work. Or is Captain Falcon suddenly a valid comparison to Goku seeing as the Falcon Punch is a meme?
 
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wildvine47

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I don't know why having non-video game characters is such a bad thing in smash, when we literally have Mr.Game and watch (A electronic toy line) and R.O.B. (a literal personified console). We got a literal mannequin in smash and yet still, no one would want to see Goku. Hell, Goku has been on the Famicom since before more than 75% of characters in smash. If you honestly think Sakurai wouldn't put Goku in Smash JUST to spite and surprise everyone, then you're honestly a fool. When will people learn that the 'rules' of character inclusion in Smash was created by the fans due to trends, literally anything can go down if Sakurai wants it so. That being said, it does NOT excuse characters like Shrek and other non-videogame characters who have no history or contributions to videogames as a whole.
Sakurai himself said anime and manga characters wouldn’t be considered. It’s not a fan-created rule when the man himself says it. See for yourself. Last game he compared adding Goku to adding flippin Spongebob. It’s not happening, at least not anytime soon.

As for Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B., they’re both Nintendo owned characters whose origins are attributed to video games. R.O.B. may have been a toy, yes, but his origin still is due entirely to video games. It’s not like there was a comic book series about him fighting Superman first or anything. He existed because of video games as a videogame peripheral. Same reason we have the Super Scope as an item and why the Zapper is part of Duck Hunt’s moveset. Just because they’re physical items doesn’t mean their origin wasn’t in video games.

Goku originated in a manga. Not a companion manga for a Dragon Ball videogame. Not a manga made so that a videogame could scan it and do something with it. A nothing-to-do with videogames manga. He’s ineligible. Pretending otherwise is what’s actually foolhardy here.
 

Zeox

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I guess Ridley won't make it in then?
http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/ridley-is-too-big

Not defending Goku, but seriously...Let's not ****ing use Knowyourmeme.com as a ****ing way to argue fact, please...Let's not sink that low.
The meme is the phrase "Ridley is too big", not "Ridley in smash".
And I'm not using know your meme to say that Goku can't be in smash, I'm using it to say that it is a meme!
and what web better to confirm if something is a meme or not than "knowyourmeme"?
 

Yoshi-Thomas

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Leave Smash Bros. as a meeting of Nintendo characters with some characters from other video-game companies.
There are and there will be enough mods to add anime and movie characters.
 

Tree Gelbman

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Etika is the worst thing to happen to Smash anyways.

Like if Sakurai said ''Goku is now in Smash, and the price is Etika never became internet famous."

I'd put Goku in Smash in a heart beat. That's less of a crime than Etika never wearing pants, talking up things that are never gonna happen, feeling the need to say the n word every 5 seconds, over acting about every little detail.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Sakurai himself said anime and manga characters wouldn’t be considered. It’s not a fan-created rule when the man himself says it. See for yourself. Last game he compared adding Goku to adding flippin Spongebob. It’s not happening, at least not anytime soon.

As for Mr. Game and Watch and R.O.B., they’re both Nintendo owned characters whose origins are attributed to video games. R.O.B. may have been a toy, yes, but his origin still is due entirely to video games. It’s not like there was a comic book series about him fighting Superman first or anything. He existed because of video games as a videogame peripheral. Same reason we have the Super Scope as an item and why the Zapper is part of Duck Hunt’s moveset. Just because they’re physical items doesn’t mean their origin wasn’t in video games.

Goku originated in a manga. Not a companion manga for a Dragon Ball videogame. Not a manga made so that a videogame could scan it and do something with it. A nothing-to-do with videogames manga. He’s ineligible. Pretending otherwise is what’s actually foolhardy here.
The only thing dumber than comparing the Wii Fit Trainer, R.O.B and Mr. Game & Watch to Goku is comparing Pac-Man to Hitler (which, yes, was a thing that happened).
 

viewtifulduck82

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What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
 

wildvine47

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Etika is the worst thing to happen to Smash anyways.

Like if Sakurai said ''Goku is now in Smash, and the price is Etika never became internet famous."

I'd put Goku in Smash in a heart beat. That's less of a crime than Etika never wearing pants, talking up things that are never gonna happen, feeling the need to say the n word every 5 seconds, over acting about every little detail.
Amen to that. I love genuine reactions from people about stuff, so seeing people fall for Etika’s insanely obvious and played up fake hype has just made me despise the guy and his fanbase. Dropping n-bombs constantly doesn’t help. I’d put up with Sans in Smash if I could snap his popularity (or the guy himself, I’m not picky) out of existence.

What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
None of those were ever actual barriers set by the man himself. Sakurai never said no third parties, and as for Cloud, the specific thing about third parties he did say was that they needed Nintendo history. Cloud may not, but Final Fantasy sure did, and he was the most iconic rep from the series.

Smash has never actually broken any of the rules or barriers Sakurai’s set for it. The only thing that was “broken” was fan expectation, and I’d consider that more widening the scope of speculation rather than breaking it. Regardless, even if you think each Smash game needs to “up the ante” and tread new ground, then this game’s new “broken barrier” can be western third parties like Rayman, Banjo, Scorpion and Doomguy. There’s plenty of other places to go to before needing to stoop to the level of adding Goku.
 
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Zeox

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What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
FF7 was the first final fantasy that wasnt in a nintendo console, before that nintendo a FF had a good relationship and history together, the reason why Cloud was added was because he is the most popular FF character, but he represents that old friendship between nintendo and FF in the NES and SNES era.
 

Wyoming

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Amen to that. I love genuine reactions from people about stuff, so seeing people fall for Etika’s insanely obvious and played up fake hype has just made me despise the guy and his fanbase. Dropping n-bombs constantly doesn’t help. I’d put up with Sans in Smash if I could snap his popularity (or the guy himself, I’m not picky) out of existence.
I was particularly confused that people thought and wanted him at the Invitational at E3.

Dude is a 14 year old boy.
 

Zerp

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What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
The barrier we're breaking this time is everyone's hopes and dreams. Single player modes have all been cut for more time to focus on multiplayer, Inklings are the only newcomers, half the roster has been cut, half of those remaining characters are DLC, Jigglypuff has been nerfed, Bayonetta has been buffed and the only stage remaining is Pac-Land with new boss appearances by Ridley and King K. Rool.
 

Sage of Ice

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What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
real people. the last two secret unlockables are Reggie Fils-Aime and Masahiro Sakurai himself

or tey take a page from sonic forces and give you a fursona builder
 
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osby

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What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
4 also introduced customizable avatars: Villager, Mii Fighters, Robin etc.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
Master Chief?:p
 

Tree Gelbman

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I was particularly confused that people thought and wanted him at the Invitational at E3.

Dude is a 14 year old boy.
I was confused when I found out he used to be a model apparently?

Like he's not an ugly dude or anything, but he's just not someone I look at and go ''Ah, yes you are definitely a former model."
 

SonicMario

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What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
If there is another barrier that gets broken this time around. I'd bet it's probably either "A character currently owned by a rival console maker" like Banjo-Kazooie. (Or even crazier, Master Chief)

That or Sora, a character that is at least partly owned by Disney with the complications of kind of having to negotiate things out with Disney but otherwise is a video game character through and through. Kind of impossible to truly represent the Kingdom Hearts games without some degree of Disney representation.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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What barrier do you guys think we're breaking this time around in terms of roster?
-Melee introduced retro/future characters
-Brawl introduced 3rd parties
-4 introduced Cloud (Character not appearing in a nintendo game, lets not argue about khcom PLEASE)

If it isn't a media character, what do you guys think the next logical progression would be?
I feel like sakurai will definitely want to blow our minds in some way with a character addition, just can't think of how he would do it this time around.
I don't think it will be a barrier necessarily, but breaking everyone's expectations with the inclusion of Ridley if those rumors are true. Ironically it won't be as mind blowing because of the rumors, but will still be shocking none the less.

Or maybe non-media characters if Blue gets his way and Hanafuna is the historical rep. That could be interesting lol.
 

SlickWylde

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I'd be all for the "Introducing a character owned by a competitor" barrier being broken. I think Banjo is probably the only "big" 3rd party character that I'd get excited about.
 

Zeox

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I don't think it will be a barrier necessarily, but breaking everyone's expectations with the inclusion of Ridley if those rumors are true. Ironically it won't be as mind blowing because of the rumors, but will still be shocking none the less.

Or maybe non-media characters if Blue gets his way and Hanafuna is the historical rep. That could be interesting lol.
There is always rumors of Ridley, if anything the mind blowing thing would be that the rumor was right.
 

TheSmasher916

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So realistically speaking, how many newcomers (bar Inklings) do you expect to be revealed at e3? It's kind of a bizzare situation where a Smash game that we know next to nothing about is coming out in, at most, 6 months, so I'd expect e3 to be one hell of an info blowout. Personally, I'm expecting 4-5 characters across the entirety of the event, between the Digital Presentation, Treehouse, and Invitational.
 
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Tree Gelbman

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I think we're getting at least Brawl level newcomers revealed. That had 5 revealed at E3.

So I'm thinking 5-7 range myself.
 

MoonlitIllusion

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So realistically speaking, how many newcomers (bar Inklings) do you expect to be revealed at e3? It's kind of a bizzare situation where a Smash game that we know next to nothing about is coming out in, at most, 6 months, so I'd expect e3 to be one hell of a info blowout. Personally, I'm expecting 4-5 characters across the entirety of the event, between the Digital Presentation, Treehouse, and Invitational.
Brawl revealed 5 so I hope for at least that many. Just saying but simon, ridley and 3 other first parties would be a great lineup...
 

osby

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I hope newcomers will be Ridley and Simon or a lot of people will spurn them just because they are not.
 

viewtifulduck82

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So realistically speaking, how many newcomers (bar Inklings) do you expect to be revealed at e3? It's kind of a bizzare situation where a Smash game that we know next to nothing about is coming out in, at most, 6 months, so I'd expect e3 to be one hell of an info blowout. Personally, I'm expecting 4-5 characters across the entirety of the event, between the Digital Presentation, Treehouse, and Invitational.
It really depends on what the marketing for the game is gonna be like. After e3 of we're gettong regular dojo updates we'll get like 5. If not, then I think we'll get more and that'll be it till release.
 

Zerp

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So realistically speaking, how many newcomers (bar Inklings) do you expect to be revealed at e3? It's kind of a bizzare situation where a Smash game that we know next to nothing about is coming out in, at most, 6 months, so I'd expect e3 to be one hell of an info blowout. Personally, I'm expecting 4-5 characters across the entirety of the event, between the Digital Presentation, Treehouse, and Invitational.
6-8. Why? Purely because of gut feeling, I have no real logical basis to expect that number but I'm expecting it anyway.
 

RodNutTakin

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The only thing dumber than comparing the Wii Fit Trainer, R.O.B and Mr. Game & Watch to Goku is comparing Pac-Man to Hitler (which, yes, was a thing that happened).
I need context for this ASAP

Also the "introducing a character owned by a competitor" barrier being broken sounds neat. Although chances are very slim for it to happen, I'd be over the moon if we somehow got a Sony-owned character in this game.
 

Tree Gelbman

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Wait. I too need context of Pacman to Hitler. Because I was there for the sheer stupidity that was this fanbase when it came to Pac Man last game and I do not for a second remember this.
 

Tree Gelbman

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8 seems like a good number to reveal over the course of E3. You get to reveal two 3rd parties. 6 first parties. Veterans. Focus on BoTW changes to Link. Show Inkling gameplay.

It'd make for a good show.
 
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