Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Nekoo]

Im going to go crazy by saying...
First initial reveal with Veteran confirmation/Inkling gameplay/ One third party a la MegaMan (so likely Simon), Ridley and others first party.

The direct goes

And at the complete End we get another teaser/trailer for a surprise Third Party.

We got third parties at Every E3 so far, with Snake/MegaMan/Pac-Man/Ryu

This smash being in a weird spot of only one E3 to show-off, I can see them doing the two third party in one go. But one being revealed as the big surprise at the end of the direct.

 

[Zeox]

What if they don't reveal any of the new third party characters on the E3? could that even happen?

 

[Murlough]

This, in my opinion, is why some of the most commonly voted for characters in the ballot by this "small faction" and others like it are extremely unlikely to get into Smash with that support alone because it is hardly substantial compared to the votes that Bayonetta likely got. Just because we didn't vote for her much doesn't mean she lacked popularity with the silent majority. We should definitely keep this "silent majority" in mind when speculating because then we will see who will actually make it into Smash for Switch based on the ballot. (that is, if we have any ballot picks)

This is actually causing me physical pain. If its a silent majority then how do you know what they think or voted for. How do you account for them? How do you measure their votes or likes against the vocal minority?

You can't! The silent majority thing is silly and impossible. It absolutely should be ignored for the purpose of discussion because you can't measure it, we don't know what they voted for or even like, and we don't even know a number to go by. (If it even exists in the first place...seriously some of yall make it sound like the Illuminati.)

The "silent majority" is just being used to artificially make it seem like some characters have a larger or smaller chance when we don't know jack diddly about the "silent majority" in the first place!

Where is the logic in the "silent majority" talk? Am I dense? I genuinely need someone to tell me if so because I am so lost right now.

 

[Nekoo]

What if they don't reveal any of the new third party characters on the E3? could that even happen?

Sonic happened but he was a special case.
Cloud happened too and caught off guard literally everyone.


But since E3 is where they blow their load. And only time they can do this before the release beside smash direct.
It's here and now or never to get everyone's attention.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

This is actually causing me physical pain. If its a silent majority then how do you know what they think or voted for. How do you account for them? How do you measure their votes or likes against the vocal majority?

You can't! The silent majority thing is silly and impossible. It absolutely should be ignored for the purpose of discussion because you can't measure it, we don't know what they voted for or even like, and we don't even know a number to go by. (If it even exists in the first place...seriously some of yall make it sound like the Illuminati.)

The "silent majority" is just being used to artificially make it seem like some characters have a larger or smaller chance when we don't know jack diddly about the "silent majority" in the first place!

Where is the logic in the "silent majority" talk? Am I dense? I genuinely need someone to tell me if so because I am so lost right now.

I mean, the silent majority gets some use politically as a spook, but you should probably also consider that games marketed to small children don't get that much in the way of user feedback from internet polls and forums for content to be added in the future. As far as I know, they tend to work mainly on test groups and marketing formulas.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

What if they don't reveal any of the new third party characters on the E3? could that even happen?

If I'm not wrong, they usually reveal one at E3 (Snake in 2006, Megaman in 2013, Pacman in 2014, Ryu in 2015).
It could always happen but I doubt it.
If the rumor is real, I expect;
-Inklings (we still don't know how they play after all)
-Simon
-Ridley
-A new Pokémon character (would be a first that a Pokémon newcomer is revealed there!), I would say Eevee.
-Ice Climbers coming back

-Mario being able to change his hat due to Cappy being with him (you can choose to change either his color scheme or the hat)
-Link's new moveset (or at least changed a bit)

 

[IntelliHeath1]

My Favorite Smash 4 Newcomer, and number 1 favorite character in the Smash franchise!

 

[Zeox]

And if the Leak isn't real, what other characters you think would be on E3?

 

[Nekoo]

And if the Leak isn't real, what other characters you think would be on E3?

I'm going to sounds like @BluePikmin11 by saying that I have a weird faith in Sora making the cuts.
The weirdest thing ever is that, this weird faith come from this dumb thread when I had to argue Third Party iconess, fame and revelancy. I didn't gave a **** or a though about him being in smash before that.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If Ice Climbers are actually being "revealed" at E3, this may be because they have their own trailer, which may mean Sakurai intends to bring back more veterans beyond Ice Climbers with their own trailers like Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

And if the Leak isn't real, what other characters you think would be on E3?

Mario and Link shown with revamped movesets, Ice Climbers still making a come-back, Rayman as the third-party, and a Pokémon newcomer.

If Ice Climbers are actually being "revealed" at E3, this may be because they have their own trailer, which may mean Sakurai intends to bring back more veterans beyond Ice Climbers with their own trailers like Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy.

I doubt we are getting trailers this time if the game releases this year.
I suppose something closer to Brawl.
However if we don't get a lot of new characters it's completely possible.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I need context for this ASAP

Here is my response to that analogy.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

And if the Leak isn't real, what other characters you think would be on E3?

Ice Climbers, possibly wolf, especially if that star fox leak is true. Newcomers are a toss up I honestly have no idea, they could focus on recognizable and relevant first party characters (Dixie, Bandana Dee, Isabelle), ballot choices (K Rool, possibly Isaac), then there's 3rd parties, who honestly knows although Rayman seems like a solid bet tbh (Plus another e3 with a something man revealed lol).

 

[Zeox]

I'm gonna say this, I totally believe there will be a new Earthbound / Mother rep (but wouldn't be revealed in E3).
I don't know who, I would like to be Porky, but that's just what I want, but I really believe there will be a new one, I have only 2 reasons to believe it, but I will anyways:
1. Reaction of the people when Lucas wasn't in smash4 at first and then was confirmed as DLC, seeing the reason (and the sales of the character) nintendo could have thought "hey, maybe people are still interested in the Mother franchise, maybe we should add more of it next time".
2. Iwata was the man that saved Earthbound and made it an eternal classic RPG, a good way to make a tribute to him would be to add a character of the game/franchise he saved.
And I strongly believe that these 2 reasons alone are enough to make this a reality, you may say I'm a fool, say I'm crazy as a loon, but I will still believe.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I'm gonna say this, I totally believe there will be a new Earthbound / Mother rep (but wouldn't be revealed in E3).
I don't know who, I would like to be Porky, but that's just what I want, but I really believe there will be a new one, I have only 2 reasons to believe it, but I will anyways:
1. Reaction of the people when Lucas wasn't in smash4 at first and then was confirmed as DLC, seeing the reason (and the sales of the character) nintendo could have thought "hey, maybe people are still interested in the Mother franchise, maybe we should add more of it next time".
2. Iwata was the man that saved Earthbound and made it an eternal classic RPG, a good way to make a tribute to him would be to add a character of the game/franchise he saved.
And I strongly believe that these 2 reasons alone are enough to make this a reality, you may say I'm a fool, say I'm crazy as a loon, but I will still believe.

As cool as Porky would be, I wouldn't bet on a dead franchise getting a newcomer. Although if they wanted to release a mother trilogy remake or something I could see that happening

 

[osby]

1. Reaction of the people when Lucas wasn't in smash4 at first and then was confirmed as DLC, seeing the reason (and the sales of the character) nintendo could have thought "hey, maybe people are still interested in the Mother franchise, maybe we should add more of it next time".

Unless there is a new game, there is no reason to add a character just because they are from a franchise. If people are interested in Mother, then they can have Ness, Lucas, Mr. Saturn, Mother stages and assists.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I'm gonna say this, I totally believe there will be a new Earthbound / Mother rep (but wouldn't be revealed in E3).
I don't know who, I would like to be Porky, but that's just what I want, but I really believe there will be a new one, I have only 2 reasons to believe it, but I will anyways:
1. Reaction of the people when Lucas wasn't in smash4 at first and then was confirmed as DLC, seeing the reason (and the sales of the character) nintendo could have thought "hey, maybe people are still interested in the Mother franchise, maybe we should add more of it next time".
2. Iwata was the man that saved Earthbound and made it an eternal classic RPG, a good way to make a tribute to him would be to add a character of the game/franchise he saved.
And I strongly believe that these 2 reasons alone are enough to make this a reality, you may say I'm a fool, say I'm crazy as a loon, but I will still believe.

There is no way. Earthbound is actually the series that I most want a rep from because, unlike Kirby, there's no way it wouldn't produce a good character.
But others on here are right. Unless a large theme in 5 is going to old titles and giving them new characters, there's just no good reason to do it.

More specifically: Nintendo already did something to acknowledge outcry about Lucas, there's no reason to think they'll do more.
Iwata was involved in many games, there's no reason Earthbound would be the thing chosen for him.

Here is my response to that analogy.

It's odd how the second one implies Hitler was never a popular figurehead despite the fact that he still is in some alarmingly large circles.

 

[Zeox]

As cool as Porky would be, I wouldn't bet on a dead franchise getting a newcomer. Although if they wanted to release a mother trilogy remake or something I could see that happening

But it is not a dead franchise, it is just over, there was simply no reason to make more.
And remember, Sakurai's way of adding characters isn't just "this franchise is relevant now or not?"

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

There is no way. Earthbound is actually the series that I most want a rep from because, unlike Kirby, there's no way it wouldn't produce a good character.
But others on here are right. Unless a large theme in 5 is going to old titles and giving them new characters, there's just no good reason to do it.

More specifically: Nintendo already did something to acknowledge outcry about Lucas, there's no reason to think they'll do more.
Iwata was involved in many games, there's no reason Earthbound would be the thing chosen for him.

It's odd how the second one implies Hitler was never a popular figurehead despite the fact that he still is in some alarmingly large circles.

Giving dead franchises newcomers is a concept I'm 100% here for, give me porky, black shadow, isaac, andy, ridley, saki and his son, krystal (star fox is dead to me at least after that mess of a game)

But it is not a dead franchise, it is just over, there was simply no reason to make more.
And remember, Sakurai's way of adding characters isn't just "this franchise is relevant now or not?"

The series isn't continuing, it's not getting any more games, thus it's a dead franchise. And the trends of the time is definitely an influencing factor although not being the biggest of course, but look at smash 4's newcomers, look at brawl's newcomers, all characters that were relevant at the time minus retros

 

[TMNTSSB4]

So anyways, who has been playing nintendo franchises that never played just because of smash?
I beat earthbound and mother 3 recently, and 4 metroid games.

Smash Melee and Brawl introduced me to every game series they had apart of them (through assist trophys and characters) while Melee introduces me to videos games in general (Brawl showed me the beauty of Sonic, Metal Gear, and Fire Emblem...which I could never handle until Smash 4 and Awakening)

 

[Zeox]

Also, may I remind you everyone that King K. Rool hasn't been in a game for years too yet thanks to the fanbase he is pretty close to be finally playable? And what about the people that still believes in Geno just because of the ballot even if he hasn't been relevant since Super Mario RPG?
And last, Nintendo always could finally give us Mother 3, just like they finally have us Star Fox 2.

 

[CodeBlue_]

because, unlike Kirby, there's no way it wouldn't produce a good character.

This hurts to read as a Kirby fan. Why do you have to throw us under the bus to argue for your series lmfao

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Also, may I remind you everyone that King K. Rool hasn't been in a game for years too yet thanks to the fanbase he is pretty close to be finally playable? And what about the people that still believes in Geno just because of the ballot even if he hasn't been relevant since Super Mario RPG?
And last, Nintendo always could finally give us Mother 3, just like they finally have us Star Fox 2.

King K Rool is a massively popular character within the smash fandom tho, no mother character comes close to comparing, and the DK series is still alive and well even if he isn't in them.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

But it is not a dead franchise, it is just over, there was simply no reason to make more.
And remember, Sakurai's way of adding characters isn't just "this franchise is relevant now or not?"

Earthbound is one of those series that I'm okay ended just because they made it as great as it could be.

I'm okay with not getting a sequel to Conker's Bad Fur Day as well. The N64 game is already so memorable that it's not necessary. Anything more would have likely been like a disappointing movie sequel like Ghostbusters.

Conker's Bad Fur Day is like one of those movies you could watch over and over again, which is rare for me. The only movie I could watch twice in one week is Fargo, which I saw twice in two days. I love that movie.

 

[Minch]

My Favorite Smash 4 Newcomer, and number 1 favorite character in the Smash franchise!

One of my favourite character introduction trailers.

 

[osby]

Giving dead franchises newcomers is a concept I'm 100% here for, give me porky, black shadow, isaac, andy, ridley, saki and his son, krystal (star fox is dead to me at least after that mess of a game)


The series isn't continuing, it's not getting any more games, thus it's a dead franchise. And the trends of the time is definitely an influencing factor although not being the biggest of course, but look at smash 4's newcomers, look at brawl's newcomers, all characters that were relevant at the time minus retros

So it's a good thing we got Palutena and Dark Pit.

 

[Zeox]

Also may I remind that Mother 1 was finally released for the first time in english just 3 years ago?

 

[Sigran101]

I want the Parasol and Barrel Canon back. Mostly the Barrel Canon. Because there aren't any other proper DKC items.

I really want the Rambi box as a dkc item. You break it open and then you can ride Rambi and smash into your opponents for a little while until he runs off.

 

[?????????????]

I'm always down for more MOTHER characters in Smash. I really love that series.

My top pick would still be Masked Man, but if I had COMPLETELY FREE REIGN....my favorite would be Duster.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Also may I remind that Mother 1 was finally released for the first time in english just 3 years ago?

I don't think virtual console rereleases is gonna influence newcomers much, I feel a remake could if they made one tho.

I'm always down for more MOTHER characters in Smash. I really love that series.

My top pick would still be Masked Man, but if I had COMPLETELY FREE REIGN....my favorite would be Duster.

I'd go for porky since he's a major villain in 2/3 games, plus spider mech's are cool

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Giving dead franchises newcomers is a concept I'm 100% here for, give me porky, black shadow, isaac, andy, ridley, saki and his son, krystal (star fox is dead to me at least after that mess of a game

Star Fox Zero was bad like MvCi was bad in that it was just a popular bandwagon to say that it was
But anyway, I'm also totally for that concept, but I don't see it ever happening

This hurts to read as a Kirby fan. Why do you have to throw us under the bus to argue your character lmao

Kirby and Earthbound are honestly the only first party series in Smash that I actually care about. I've loved Kirby since I was a little kid and his face being on the box was the only reason I got Melee. The difference is that, while there are a bunch of great options for Kirby, there are also a bunch of trash ones because all HAL can think to do anymore is make expies of old characters.
If we could get Gooey, that'd be great, but I've seen much more support for Magolor and Hyness & co.
Dee is fine as the most likely addition, but I don't believe a 5th would ever have a positive outcome compared to EB considering Sakurai's compulsive humility combined with his past willingness to also ignore the Dark Matter Trilogy.

 

[Sage of Ice]

Smash Melee and Brawl introduced me to every game series they had apart of them (through assist trophys and characters) while Melee introduces me to videos games in general (Brawl showed me the beauty of Sonic, Metal Gear, and Fire Emblem...which I could never handle until Smash 4 and Awakening)

i got into Kirby, Kid Icarus, and Earthbound because of Smash, and my exposure to Metroid and Star Fox started there too. before Smash i only knew of Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon

 

[TMNTSSB4]

When it comes to Earthbound/Mother, the only character I can see joining is either Porky or Ninten (I know nothing about the game series other than Smash)

One of my favourite character introduction trailers.

It also has the best reveal trailer tagline “freeze frame”

So it's a good thing we got Palutena and Dark Pit.

Well the Waifu Palutena...and Dark Pit as well...did appear in Uprising (two years before Sm4sh), so they got lucky

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Giving dead franchises newcomers is a concept I'm 100% here for, give me porky, black shadow, isaac, andy, ridley, saki and his son, krystal (star fox is dead to me at least after that mess of a game)

Oi mate, you got a permit to post such atrocity on the internet?
Metroid is not the most active but come on, it's not dead yet!

 

[Zeox]

I don't think virtual console rereleases is gonna influence newcomers much, I feel a remake could if they made one tho.

People wanting Mother 3 in english has been a meme so popular that even nintendo acknowledges it:

They know people love it and want it as much as they know King K. Rool and Ridley are wanted in smash.
Popularity helps.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

If Ice Climbers are actually being "revealed" at E3, this may be because they have their own trailer, which may mean Sakurai intends to bring back more veterans beyond Ice Climbers with their own trailers like Mewtwo, Lucas, and Roy.

I could see it being something they show during a Treehouse segment if that's the case, seems like a perfect little thing to show there.

If there's also a 'no cuts' announcement at E3, which could be implied by the leak, then previously cut veterans returning would be a great way to still have some excitement surrounding veterans reveals. Like, who out of Snake, Wolf, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Pichu will make it? Could all of them actually return? And how would they look and function a decade after their last Smash appearance (or more, in Pichu's case)? I think that'd be a pretty cool way to have something other than newcomers to be hyped for, and it'd also be nice to have veteran reveals be so focused on us getting additions to the current roster, and not just be a relief over the fear of certain characters getting cut, it puts a positive spin on the whole thing.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

i got into Kirby, Kid Icarus, and Earthbound because of Smash, and my exposure to Metroid and Star Fox started there too. before Smash i only knew of Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon

You were blessed with the knowledge of the Nintendo Holy Trinity

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Also may I remind that Mother 1 was finally released for the first time in english just 3 years ago?

Three years isn’t that short of a time. Plus, that was just an old game that already had an unreleased translation just sitting in Nintendo’s offices.

I’d absolutely love Porky, as my signature suggests, but Mother is dead (it wasn’t killed, but peacefully ended its life), and there’s not enough demand for a character to warrant one being added.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Oi mate, you got a permit to post such atrocity on the internet?
Metroid is not the most active but come on, it's not dead yet!

OMG I DIDN'T EVEN REALISE, I guess I just got so used to calling metroid dead for years lmfao

nah but that was an accident (at least my conscious mind thinks so)

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

You were blessed with the knowledge of the Nintendo Holy Trinity

"How do you know the Nintendo Holy Trinity?"
"You are not the only one cursed with knowledge."

I could see it being something they show during a Treehouse segment if that's the case, seems like a perfect little thing to show there.

If there's also a 'no cuts' announcement at E3, which could be implied by the leak, then previously cut veterans returning would be a great way to still have some excitement surrounding veterans reveals. Like, who out of Snake, Wolf, Squirtle, Ivysaur and Pichu will make it? Could all of them actually return? And how would they look and function a decade after their last Smash appearance (or more, in Pichu's case)? I think that'd be a pretty cool way to have something other than newcomers to be hyped for, and it'd also be nice to have it so focused on us getting additions to the current roster, and not just have veteran reveals be a relief over the fear of certain characters getting cut.

I hope Snake, Wold and IC come back and that we at least get Pokémon Trainer with Squirtle, Pichu and Ivysaur as his pokémonfrom the future DLC.
I want to save the Trainer too. Lucas misses him.