Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Zeox]

Three years isn’t that short of a time. Plus, that was just an old game that already had an unreleased translation just sitting in Nintendo’s offices.

I’d absolutely love Porky, as my signature suggests, but Mother is dead (it wasn’t killed, but peacefully ended its life), and there’s not enough demand for a character to warrant one being added.

Three years ago was probably when the Smash roster was being decided.
Never say never, just because it didn't happen before doesn't means it cannot happen, after all, until brawl nobody believed that it would be possible to have a Thirdparty character in the game, why would be impossible to make a new character for an old franchise? it would make fans of that franchise happy and more excited of the game, instead of having 3 new fire emblem characters we could have a new mothr character and a new F-zero character.
I'm not saying is gonna happen, I'm saying that I believe it would happen.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

"How do you know the Nintendo Holy Trinity?"
"You are not the only one cursed with knowledge."

You sir...you win half a universe with such a perfectly balanced reference

 

[Deleted member]

@Roger Smith how come you have doubts about Decidueye?
Decidueye is the most popular Gen 7 fully evolved starter and it is in Pokken. I think it is likely. Probably not a shoo-in, but very likely.

My Favorite Smash 4 Newcomer, and number 1 favorite character in the Smash franchise!

19 days until E3....
That means I have to wait 19 days and then my period of stress and anger is over.
Thank you people who made E3.

 

[osby]

instead of having 3 new fire emblem characters we could have a new mothr character and a new F-zero character.

We could, if they had a game had pretty much saved the franchise which can provide a unique character and a pallet swap, alogside with a game that came out after the Smash's release.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I'd argue that the effect of the silent majority isn't as big as people suspect, since our echo chamber did cause K. Rool to be acknowledged as a Mii Costume. So we're a faction sizeable enough to have an effect on the game.

 

[Zeox]

Like I always say, Smash is not a game to add the last trending gaming character, it is a celebration of Nintendo's history as a gaming company, adding fan favorites and classic characters.
I don't think is madness to believe in Earthbound/Mother, I think is the fair thing to do, that franchise have me laughs and sadness, and it made me revive my childhood, if fans can give a chance to characters like geno or king k. rool, then it is my obligation to believe and fight for a third mother character, because even if in this smash there is no new Mother rep, it will help the chance of a new Mother rep in the next Smash game.
I will believe even if nobody else believes, is just the right thing to do.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

@Roger Smith how come you have doubts about Decidueye?
Decidueye is the most popular Gen 7 starter and it is in Pokken. I think it is likely. Probably not a shoo-in, but very likely.

Not the most popular one, from polls it seems that it's the Water one, then Incineroar, and then Decidueye.
However its first form, Rowlet, is first!

What the hell is the 14th one though?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'd argue that the effect of the silent majority isn't as big as people suspect, since our echo chamber did cause K. Rool to be acknowledged as a Mii Costume. So we're a faction sizeable enough to have an effect on the game.

Well, we know Sakurai acknowledged Geno as a popular character among the "silent majority" of the fanbase, so there's that.

 

[Deleted member]

Not the most popular one, from polls it seems that it's the Water one, then Incineroar, and then Decidueye.
However its first form, Rowlet, is first!

What the hell is the 14th one though?

Sorry, I meant the most popular "Gen 7 fully evolved starter".
I know Rowlet is the most popular.

 

[osby]

What the hell is the 14th one though?

Cutest thing I've ever seen.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Sorry, I meant the most popular "Gen 7 fully evolved starter".
I know Rowlet is the most popular.

But I think it's a good point. Too many people assume Rowlett will just get fully evolved. I mean if they were working off popularity why do that? Either pick Rowlett or any others in the top 10. Decideueye was the only fully evolved to not make the top 14 and so popularity isn't exactly a pro he has...

 

[Zeox]

We could, if they had a game had pretty much saved the franchise which can provide a unique character and a pallet swap, alogside with a game that came out after the Smash's release.

So you believe Fire emblem should have 3 new characters in Smash 5? 9 full reps of fire emblem? and why a franchise need to have a game that saved the franchise? what if the franchise didn't needed to be saved? anyways...

Game that saved the franchise: Earthbound (tecnically saved it in the rest of the world, since is the only game that got outside japan)
Unique Character: Porky in his spider machine, with pallet swaps of his normal look, his look at the end of earthbound, his looks in mother 3, the porky statue, and the porky bots.
Game that came after smash release: Earthbound beginnings.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Cutest thing I've ever seen.

That's a mirror. *cling*

But I think it's a good point. Too many people assume Rowlett will just get fully evolved. I mean if they were working off popularity why do that? Either pick Rowlett or any others in the top 10. Decideueye was the only fully evolved to not make the top 14 and so popularity isn't exactly a pro he has...

As I said previously, we need more cute Pokémon, we already have Charizard, Lucario, Mewtwo and Greninja as the "cool" ones.
Mimikyu or Rowlet would add more pie to the game.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

As I said previously, we need more cute Pokémon, we already have Charizard, Lucario, Mewtwo and Greninja as the "cool" ones.
Mimikyu or Rowlet would add more pie to the game.

Absolutely. However I do find Decideueye incredibly cute if they play off the fact he's an edgelordy dork.

 

[osby]

So you believe Fire emblem should have 3 new characters in Smash 5? 9 full reps of fire emblem? and why a franchise need to have a game that saved the franchise?

No, I think there are no need for a new Fire Emblem character, since we didn't get any new mainline game.

It needed a game that brought the sales up because even though team wanted to continue the series, it wasn't selling well (partially due to Nintendo USA wasn't best at marketing JRPGs).

Mother doesn't have this problem. It has three games and we got two protagonists from the most recent and notable ones in Smash.

Fire Emblem has over a dozen main games and we got five of their protagonists and Lucina.

It doesn't make sense to compare them.

 

[Sage of Ice]

That's a mirror. *cling*



As I said previously, we need more cute Pokémon, we already have Charizard, Lucario, Mewtwo and Greninja as the "cool" ones.
Mimikyu or Rowlet would add more pie to the game.

Marshadow, anyone?

...did anybody else but me like Marshadow

 

[ThatGuyWhoKnowsNothing]

I have plenty of things I want from smash 5, new modes, better menus, a second sonic rep, etc. but if I get better single player modes, (training mode and for glory/for fun), and I'd be as happy as it gets with this game. It could be smash 4 +, and as long as the change I listed happens, smash "5" will be satisfactory
note: I don't think It's a port, I'd just be fine if it was

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

That's a mirror. *cling*



As I said previously, we need more cute Pokémon, we already have Charizard, Lucario, Mewtwo and Greninja as the "cool" ones.
Mimikyu or Rowlet would add more pie to the game.

Rowlet's problem is just that, despite it's popularity, it really doesn't compare to decidueye moveset potential wise. He's a cute borb but he doesn't offer very much compared to other potential reps. And tbh the pokemon newcomer isn't gonna be based off of popularity since the roster will have been decided mid-2016, if sakurai saw potential in decidueye's concept art he's getting in regardless of popularity. There was never a guarantee greninja would've been the most popular starter either, that was just luck, he could've been the least popular and he still would've been in.

 

[Zeox]

No, I think there are no need for a new Fire Emblem character, since we didn't get any new mainline game.

It needed a game that brought the sales up because even though team wanted to continue the series, it wasn't selling well (partially due to Nintendo USA wasn't best at marketing JRPGs).

Mother doesn't have this problem. It has three games and we got two protagonists from the most recent and notable ones in Smash.

Fire Emblem has over a dozen main games and we got five of their protagonists and Lucina.

It doesn't make sense to compare them.

Alright, my point was that, this team, instead of 3 characters for the same franchise, they could repart them to other more classic franchises that has been there since smash 64 but never got too many reps, like F-zero, Mother, Metroid or even Star fox, franchises that never got more than 3 characters.

 

[osby]

That's a mirror. *cling*

You're making me blush.

As I said previously, we need more cute Pokémon, we already have Charizard, Lucario, Mewtwo and Greninja as the "cool" ones.
Mimikyu or Rowlet would add more pie to the game.

I agree, that's why I'd support them too. Also Jigglypuff to stay.

 

[viewtifulduck82]

I'll actually die if for whatever reason pokemon doesn't get a newcomer at all. How many pages would have beem wasted?

 

[Nekoo]

I'll actually die if for whatever reason pokemon doesn't get a newcomer at all. How many pages would have beem wasted?

Too many.
Alongside all of the Pyra's page if her and Rex get deconfirmed.

 

[Zeox]

Characters don't always are added for revelancy, but because they are part of nintendo's history.
Sakurai was about to delete Roy and Marth from Meele because they were unknow characters here, yet he decided to leave them in the game because they were important characters, just like Lucas's game never came here yet he added him even if here is a total unknow character.
His game never come, they literally couldn't sell us Mother 3, yet that didn't stop Sakurai in adding him.

 

[Zerp]

"Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen. "

We don't really need to worry, while it may be true Mother is a dead universe, Porky is eternal, he will never die and is in absolute safety for all eternity, therefore he has the longest foreseeable and brightest future out of any possible newcomer!

I'll actually die if for whatever reason pokemon doesn't get a newcomer at all. How many pages would have beem wasted?

None of them, it'd just mean our speculation was wrong, not that any of it was a waste.

 

[Nekoo]

Characters don't always are added for revelancy,

Insert obligatory chart with newcomers for each games showing that they were relevant at the time of their selection
*Laugh in Japanese*
Insert obligatory sentence from Sakurai and how Fire Emblem Awakening was out at the RIGHT time to get a newcomer from it
Pshh....Nothing personal Kid.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Too many.
Alongside all of the Pyra's page if her and Rex get deconfirmed.

They can still make it in as DLC though.

 

[osby]

Alright, my point was that, this team, instead of 3 characters for the same franchise, they could repart them to other more classic franchises that has been there since smash 64 but never got too many reps, like F-zero, Mother, Metroid or even Star fox, franchises that never got more than 3 characters.

1. There was no three character slot distributed to franchises, all of them got in because of two new games and their moveset potential (or in Lucina's case, moveset similarity)
2. Those three (except) don't have as many protagonists or mainline games as Fire Emblem
3. Also they are all hard to make a character for. Two of them takes place in vehicles and Mother uses abstract effects. They've yet to have a character whose not a clone. Maybe Krystal or Porky can have a original moveset but I can see why extra effort might be disheartening.
4. Metroid has all of its protagonists in the game.

 

[Zerp]

Insert obligatory chart with newcomers for each games showing that they were relevant at the time of their selection
*Laugh in Japanese*
Insert obligatory sentence from Sakurai and how Fire Emblem Awakening was out at the RIGHT time to get a newcomer from it
Pshh....Nothing personal Kid.

Inb4 we get Mother 3DS as E3's big surprise reveal and get another Mother character anyway.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

They can still make it in as DLC though.

inb4 they're an assist trophy

 

[Zeox]

Insert obligatory chart with newcomers for each games showing that they were relevant at the time of their selection
*Laugh in Japanese*
Insert obligatory sentence from Sakurai and how Fire Emblem Awakening was out at the RIGHT time to get a newcomer from it
Pshh....Nothing personal Kid.

Pretty sure the dog from Duck hunt is not very relevant.
And before you say "but that's a retro character", that just proves that characters aren't always added by relevancy, no matter if is just because retro, he wasn't relevant, so I won .
Last but not least, even if Mother is over, that doesn't means the influence of that game is over.
Recently Sakurai played a popular that was step by step a tribute of earthbound, since it was highly inspired by this one... you know, Undertale.
So this confirms it that Sans undertale is playable in mario kart.
No, but seriously, you cannot automatically think that there will be no new reps of a franchise because is not relevant because neither you or me are sakurai, that man changes his mind and rethinks stuff so much that is not even funny at this point.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

inb4 they're an assist trophy

I'm not sure if that will happen, but i can still definitely see Assist trophy disconfirmations starting within a month or two.

 

[Nekoo]

No, but seriously, you cannot automatically think that there will be no new reps of a franchise because is not relevant because neither you or me are sakurai, that man changes his mind and rethinks stuff so much that is not even funny at this point.

inb4 Smash Bros becomes a dating sim because Sakurai changed his mind.

At least, you'll know what you Smash in that game.

 

[Zeox]

1. There was no three character slot distributed to franchises, all of them got in because of two new games and their moveset potential (or in Lucina's case, moveset similarity)
2. Those three (except) don't have as many protagonists or mainline games as Fire Emblem
3. Also they are all hard to make a character for. Two of them takes place in vehicles and Mother uses abstract effects. They've yet to have a character whose not a clone. Maybe Krystal or Porky can have a original moveset but I can see why extra effort might be disheartening.
4. Metroid has all of its protagonists in the game.

When I said about the 3 slots of fire emblem I didn't mean it in a literal way.
The number of protagonists is irrelevant, and being a hard chatacter to make is also not important, pretty sure Bowser Jr. with all the koopalings is a lot harded to make than krystal and porky together.

 

[Hinata]

What the hell is the 14th one though?

That would be Pyukumuku, a Pokemon that attacks by regurgitating its guts at high velocities towards its enemies.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Fire Emblem has over a dozen main games and we got five of their protagonists and Lucina.

Chrom felt more of a protagonist in Awakening than Robin, even though he/she and Lucina were equally important to the game as the guy who couldn’t Smash with the rest.

inb4 Smash Bros becomes a dating sim because Sakurai changed his mind

This would be an exceptional game

 

[Arcanir]

Absolutely. However I do find Decideueye incredibly cute if they play off the fact he's an edgelordy dork.

The funny thing about the Gen 7 candidates is that all of them have options to be cute under the right circumstances. For instance, alongside Decidueye, Lycanroc has his anime personality if they use Dusk, and Mimikyu is... well Mimikyu, the only way it can't be cute is if they play the anime personality completely straight.

It's really just a question of if they decide to use those personalities. Greninja could be pretty dorky itself, but it's played as a no-nonsense ninja within Smash itself aside from a couple things like his splat animation.

Characters don't always are added for revelancy, but because they are part of nintendo's history.
Sakurai was about to delete Roy and Marth from Meele because they were unknow characters here, yet he decided to leave them in the game because they were important characters, just like Lucas's game never came here yet he added him even if here is a total unknow character.
His game never come, they literally couldn't sell us Mother 3, yet that didn't stop Sakurai in adding him.

Lucas is actually a strange case since according to Source Gaming, he was put in because he was the more recent character from the Mother series and was intended to be in the game instead of Ness, but was added before Sakurai was made aware of Mother 3 not coming overseas. At that point, he actually became hesitant on the addition and instead added Ness back in for western audiences.

 

[?????????????]

inb4 Smash Bros becomes a dating sim because Sakurai changed his mind.

I'm totally pairing Little Mac and Wii Fit.

 

[Roberk]

it would make fans of that franchise happy and more excited of the game, instead of having 3 new fire emblem characters we could have a new mothr character and a new F-zero character.
I'm not saying is gonna happen, I'm saying that I believe it would happen.

The difference is that FE is a franchise that has been constantly growing since 1990. Mother had its 3 games and was done, F-Zero has been MIA since the GameCube.

Captain Falcon had to use the Dragon Fighter moveset from 64 prototypes, race car drivers don't exactly translate well into Smash. Just because F-Zero has good characters and designs doesn't mean they should be in Smash, they'd have to be almost completely made up like Captain Falcon.

While yes, retros aren't relevant when they are added, they have significant historical relevance. ROB: hardware that helped sell the NES. G&W: The OG handhelds. Duck Hunt: Come on, he's Duck Hunt! The game included with Super Mario Bros, a package deal that was one of the best selling games of all time! Not to mention the NES Zapper/peripherals. Mother doesn't have that, the character that would've made the argument for significance is Ness, and he's obviously already in.

Now FE is considered a flagship franchise by Nintendo and has been having massive success recently compared to the expectations of it. It's not like "oh no, they added FE characters, I guess less people are satisfied that an active franchise got newcomers rather than franchises which have done little to nothing in decades." I could say that third party DLC could've been slots for first-parties, but I could respect that the third-parties were more popular and significant than most first-parties we would've wanted as DLC.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Pretty sure the dog from Duck hunt is not very relevant....

Mr.Peepers was pretty relevant before Smash...just not in a positive and fun way

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

inb4 Smash Bros becomes a dating sim because Sakurai changed his mind.

At least, you'll know what you Smash in that game.

There is an alternative universe where it happened and that terrifies me.

Though I could finally date S̶a̶m̶u̶s̶ Wario.