Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Cosmic77]

Well on the topic of Breath of the Wild... What stages/items/assist trophies would you like to see?

Prince Sidon as an Assist Trophy.

After you summon him, he tells you that he believes in you. Your attack and launching power goes up by 1.5.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Well on the topic of Breath of the Wild... What stages/items/assist trophies would you like to see?

Kilton would make a fun assist, beedle too, and Riju or my husband Sidon. As far as stages go there's a lot of options, the great plateau, corrupted hyrule castle, lost woods, korok forest, zora's domain, goron city, gerudo village, rito village, a standard shrine. I don't really have a preference tbh anything from BOTW would make a good stage.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Here's a mechanic a newcomer could possibly use: Scavenger Hunting

Basically, someone would be able to spawn something, be it a vehicle or a minion or some crate, that contains an item piece.
Think of it like the Dragoon. Anyways, when the crate/minion/vehicle/something else is destructed, it spawns a piece of that item.
One could mix-and-match different item pieces to create different items.

I incorporated it in my Kilton moveset like this:

Step 1: Kilton can summon three different enemies with his Neutral B, Minion Mask. He can summon Bokoblins, Moblins and Lizalfos

Step 2: Each minion drops a certain intestine and a critter
Bokoblins drop Bokoblin Guts and a Hearty Lizard
Moblins drop Moblin Guts and a Attack Rhino-Beetle
Lizalfos drop Lizalfos Guts and a Defense Carp

Up to three of these items can be picked up and stored in an item inventory at once.

Step 3: Kilton can use these ingredients to cook Elixrs
Elixrs with Hearty Lizards restore his health
Elixrs with Attack Rhino-Beetles give him an attack buff
Elixrs with Defense Carps give him a defense buff

The performance of these Elixrs are decided by the Guts
Bokoblin as the weakest, but easiest to farm and defeat up to Lizalfos, the creatures with the most HP but with the most powerful intestines.


One can also implement this in a Wario Bike situation, where one can transform their mech to have different parts and use the different parts of the destroyed mech to build new invention.

Heck, one could use this for a Savvy Stylist set where a matching outfit means better buffs, whereas an unfresh outfit weakens attacks.
She could have a Mannequin Neutral B that randomly drops clothes, allowing your keen eye to match together the perfect set!

 

[monadoboy]

Something about Ganondorf and a BotW design to consider

Spoiler: Breath of the Wild Spoilers

"The source of the darkness that has appeared time and again throughout Hyrule's history. It's been called many names, from "Great King of Evil" to "Calamity." Hibernating within a cocoon, it attempted to regenerate a physical form after Link awoke but was forced to confront him in an incomplete state."
From the Hyrule Compendium

He does look kinda humanoid, maybe they can base a design on this.
Maybe something like this:
(apologies for the quick sketch)

 

[Sage of Ice]

Well on the topic of Breath of the Wild... What stages/items/assist trophies would you like to see?

a few weeks ago i decided my ideal Zelda stage would be the Lost Woods. i'm seeing stone arches, spooky trees, and the glint of torches through the mist. after around a minute the fog rolls in, and quickly blows out to reveal the stage has changed! now you're in the Korok Forest clearing, with warm light coming in over the players and the Deku Tree looming in the background. eventually the fog returns, and you are brought back to the original setup.

or maybe it cycles through a few different parts of the forest? one time it could bring you to an area thick with trees, then to the archway at the entrance, then to the pond of the Second Sight trial.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Here's a mechanic a newcomer could possibly use: Scavenger Hunting

Basically, someone would be able to spawn something, be it a vehicle or a minion or some crate, that contains an item piece.
Think of it like the Dragoon. Anyways, when the crate/minion/vehicle/something else is destructed, it spawns a piece of that item.
One could mix-and-match different item pieces to create different items.

I incorporated it in my Kilton moveset like this:

Step 1: Kilton can summon three different enemies with his Neutral B, Minion Mask. He can summon Bokoblins, Moblins and Lizalfos

Step 2: Each minion drops a certain intestine and a critter
Bokoblins drop Bokoblin Guts and a Hearty Lizard
Moblins drop Moblin Guts and a Attack Rhino-Beetle
Lizalfos drop Lizalfos Guts and a Defense Carp

Up to three of these items can be picked up and stored in an item inventory at once.

Step 3: Kilton can use these ingredients to cook Elixrs
Elixrs with Hearty Lizards restore his health
Elixrs with Attack Rhino-Beetles give him an attack buff
Elixrs with Defense Carps give him a defense buff

The performance of these Elixrs are decided by the Guts
Bokoblin as the weakest, but easiest to farm and defeat up to Lizalfos, the creatures with the most HP but with the most powerful intestines.


One can also implement this in a Wario Bike situation, where one can transform their mech to have different parts and use the different parts of the destroyed mech to build new invention.

Heck, one could use this for a Savvy Stylist set where a matching outfit means better buffs, whereas an unfresh outfit weakens attacks.
She could have a Mannequin Neutral B that randomly drops clothes, allowing your keen eye to match together the perfect set!

This is a super cool concept! Not to keen on the character choice personally, but it could work for a Style Savy rep! Would this be too much to micromanage though, looks like a lot to keep track of. Id hibestly just be picking up whatever and just using it immediately lol

 

[Pacack]

Even if you don't agree, it's nice that you can see where I'm coming from. It's refreshing after the 2 years of "lol ridleys too big" during Smash 4.

Oh, trust me, I get that. I was here for Smash 4 speculation too, and I've been a Ridley supporter for some time now.

I just figure that interpretations I disagree with are merely different interpretations. There's no need for me to take offense when the argument isn't logically flawed or factually incorrect or whatever. I may argue my stance intensely, but I'm typically able to ground myself and all - this is just a game we're talking about here, after all. It's not the end of the world if you or I are wrong.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Topic: When it comes to people bringing up gameplay potential for a certain newcomer in Smash, what kind of move-set ideas feel forced to you? I am asking this mainly for my Tom Nook RTC analysis, and perspectives would definitely help.

 

[Pacack]

Well on the topic of Breath of the Wild... What stages/items/assist trophies would you like to see?

Stage: Coliseum Ruins

Or Vah Medoh, flying over various locations.

Items:
That's a hard one. Food is an easy choice, but I want more interesting things, honestly. Maybe a Lizalfos arm as a throwing item? A Korok Leaf, maybe?

Assist Trophy:
Mipha: A powerful healing assist sounds perfect for her.
Guardian: An assist that just starts attacking everyone, wit the music playing and everything. God, that would be cool.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Topic: When it comes to people bringing up gameplay potential for a certain newcomer in Smash, what kind of move-set ideas feel forced to you? I am asking this mainly for my Tom Nook RTC analysis, and perspectives would definitely help.

Tom Nook


No seriously, Tom Nook feels forced to me. That plus Lara Croft

 

[BluePikmin11]

I need an in-depth explanation for that Crusher.

 

[Pacack]

a few weeks ago i decided my ideal Zelda stage would be the Lost Woods. i'm seeing stone arches, spooky trees, and the glint of torches through the mist. after around a minute the fog rolls in, and quickly blows out to reveal the stage has changed! now you're in the Korok Forest clearing, with warm light coming in over the players and the Deku Tree looming in the background. eventually the fog returns, and you are brought back to the original setup.

or maybe it cycles through a few different parts of the forest? one time it could bring you to an area thick with trees, then to the archway at the entrance, then to the pond of the Second Sight trial.

Oh, wow, that's an awesome idea. Now I'm going to be sad if something like that doesnt happen. >.<

Topic: When it comes to people bringing up gameplay potential for a certain newcomer in Smash, what kind of move-set ideas feel forced to you? I am asking this mainly for my Tom Nook RTC analysis, and perspectives would definitely help.

If the moveset isn't based on a cohesive theme, then it's not a good moveset, imo.

Remember how Sakurai makes characters that can be explained really easily as archetypes? Like, Shulk is a stat changing swordfighter, Little Mac's no air fighter, Rosalina's a puppeteer, etc.

That needs to be kept in mind when making a moveset. If it's just a bunch of references with no glue to hold them together, it's not worthwhile.

Also keep in mind the way a character feels/looks in its home game. If you can't recreate the essense of the character, then it's not worthwhile even if the playstyle works.

Like, if Mega Man was added with the moveset of Mii Gunner, it wouldn't have been right because Mega Man feels different in his home series.

I've been thinking about that one a lot recently, believe it or not. You might want to watch out for a moveset I'm working on coming out soon.

 

[Cosmic77]

Long story short, Tom Nook was the second most-likely Animal Crossing character.

And then Isabelle came along.

Tom Nook could work in Smash, but I don't see it happening now. Villager himself is already eating up most of the moveset potential, and after you factor in Isabelle, I don't think there's enough material left that would make Sakurai seriously consider adding a third Animal Crossing rep.


Sorry, I know that wasn't the question being asked. On the topic of movesets, I think virtually any type of Villager-inspired moveset would work fine with Tom Nook without seeming too forced. I might put a heavier emphasis on bells, construction, and shop items though, but that's only if you want to better separate Tom Nook from other AC characters.

 

[Deleted member]

I need an in-depth explanation for that Crusher.

Your avatar honestly fits this post perfectly.

Prince Sidon as an Assist Trophy.

After you summon him, he tells you that he believes in you. Your attack and launching power goes up by 1.5.

Silver the Hedgehog as an Assist Trophy where he goes "It's no use!" and it literally does nothing.
....
Okay, a nice BOTW trophy would be a Guardian, that can change to a laser form, attack mode with a spear, and so on.

Or it can be an Adventure Mode enemy.

 

[Pacack]

I need an in-depth explanation for that Crusher.

If I may interject, actually.

Tom Nook's a really hard character to portray accurately as a fighter. The character doesn't actually do anything but selling stuff, which makes him harder for me to get an idea for.

Isabelle's easy, because she's the type of character who can believably be clumbsy and flustered that she keeps hitting people while she's trying to build stuff for the community. Like, her getting all wound up and apologetic is in-character for her.

With Nook, there's this problem with him being too reluctant to do physical labor himself. If you look at the tasks he gives the player when you work for him, most of it's stuff he gave you so he can stay in one place to manage his store. Gardening, putting out ads, writing letters and delivering them...it's all menial labor that he doesn't want to do.

If you want to make a moveset for him, you need to keep him true to that part of his character. Which is hard.

I suppose you could include Timmy and Tommy in his moveset if you want to show that part of him. If he had his lackeys do all the work while he was doing the managing stuff, that makes sense.

 

[T-Hell]

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I think AC representation is perfectly fine with just Villager. Isabelle can stick being an at for all I care.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I think AC representation is perfectly fine with just Villager. Isabelle can stick being an at for all I care.

Not gonna happen.

Isabelle is coming.

She's the biggest thing since sliced bread that's not a Squid Kid.

 

[Pacack]

Not gonna happen.

Isabelle is coming.

She's the biggest thing since sliced bread that's not a Squid Kid.

Ridley confirmed. He is the biggest thing.

No, really, I'd be surprised to not get an AC character this game.

 

[BluePikmin11]

If I may interject, actually.

Tom Nook's a really hard character to portray accurately as a fighter. The character doesn't actually do anything but selling stuff, which makes him harder for me to get an idea for.

Isabelle's easy, because she's the type of character who can believably be clumbsy and flustered that she keeps hitting people while she's trying to build stuff for the community. Like, her getting all wound up and apologetic is in-character for her.

With Nook, there's this problem with him being too reluctant to do physical labor himself. If you look at the tasks he gives the player when you work for him, most of it's stuff he gave you so he can stay in one place to manage his store. Gardening, putting out ads, writing letters and delivering them...it's all menial labor that he doesn't want to do.

If you want to make a moveset for him, you need to keep him true to that part of his character. Which is hard.

I suppose you could include Timmy and Tommy in his moveset if you want to show that part of him. If he had his lackeys do all the work while he was doing the managing stuff, that makes sense.

When it comes to Tom Nook's motivation for bells, he is professional at in the money making business. For me, it is easy to imagine that Tom Nook would be motivated to fight in combat if it meant bigger profits on his end. For that reason, it is easier to imagine Tom Nook fighting than Isabelle for me. Although, it does not mean I think it would be harder to create a moveset for Isabelle, it's just easier to picture just based on Tom's fan-depicted characterization:

 

[Tree Gelbman]

Animal Crossing has some of the most iconic Nintendo players left.

Isabelle, Nook, even KK Slider and Resetti.

Ya'll sleep on it around here because of ''Oh it's pacifist and Villager represents everything."

But nah. Not even close.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Isabelle is my #1 wanted newcomer.

Like most of her supporters, I envision her moveset being based around other AC aspects, being clumsy, and/or revolving around Public Works. She could be unique on her own, but the most likely scenario I see for her inclusion is a Luigi-fied Villager. You can see where the base was, but for the most part sees a unique semi-clone. (Those towards words kind of contradict each other, but I hope you see what I’m getting at.)

I can see her not making it in though. As soul crushing as that would be for me. I understand why some think Villager is enough.

 

[CroonerMike]

Personally Village as the lone rep of animal crossing is perfectly fine.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I for one think people who think Villager is enough? Probably haven't played or seen more than 5 minutes of AC.

It's ALWAYS read that way to me, because anyone who has put any extensive time into an Animal Crossing game could simply not look at Villager and think he represents everything there is to that series.

 

[Cosmic77]

Right now I'm 50/50 on whether or not we'll get a second AC character.

Yeah, Isabelle is super popular in Japan, but I could just as easily see Sakurai thinking one is enough. Villager already does an excellent job of representing the series and it's "slice of life" theme by himself, so it's possible Sakurai might not think Isabelle would add much more to that.

It's kinda like making a case for a second Splatoon rep. Inklings already fit the bill perfectly, so anything else would be a bonus.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I for one think people who think Villager is enough? Probably haven't played or seen more than 5 minutes of AC.

It's ALWAYS read that way to me, because anyone who has put any extensive time into an Animal Crossing game could simply not look at Villager and think he represents everything there is to that series.

Thank you, Roger. Those are my feelings exactly. That’s why I was saying I understand. The people obviously haven’t played Animal Crossing enough.

SUCH A WONDERFUL GAME.

 

[Murlough]

I've never played Animal Crossing. I'd imagine it was like a more Nintendo-y version of Stardew Valley.

I love Villager though and would honestly be fine if they added more characters. I wouldn't be especially hyped for them but I would be able to say "cool" like I did with Duck Hunt in the past.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

When it comes to Tom Nook's motivation for bells, he is professional at in the money making business. For me, it is easy to imagine that Tom Nook would be motivated to fight in combat if it meant bigger profits on his end. For that reason, it is easier to imagine Tom Nook fighting than Isabelle for me. Although, it does not mean I think it would be harder to create a moveset for Isabelle, it's just easier to picture just based on Tom's fan-depicted characterization:

I think you're missing the real secret meta:
Tom Nook already owns a spot on the roster. Remember how Sakurai said it's not in Villager's character to be violent? He was and still is right, but Villager's in debt to a particular raccoon who would stand to profit from promoting AC and attracting more debt-slave mayors.

 

[Originality]

Aw did I miss Chibi Robo discussion. He's 100% my most wanted although he is far from likely. Wouldn't put him on my prediction list.
I do think Villager is technically enough for AC, but I don't care I still want Isabelle

 

[Kamikazek]

If the moveset isn't based on a cohesive theme, then it's not a good moveset, imo.

Remember how Sakurai makes characters that can be explained really easily as archetypes? Like, Shulk is a stat changing swordfighter, Little Mac's no air fighter, Rosalina's a puppeteer, etc.

That needs to be kept in mind when making a moveset. If it's just a bunch of references with no glue to hold them together, it's not worthwhile.

I don't think that's necessarily true. While Smash has been going increasingly for archetype characters, there's still some characters that I'd soonest describe as a grab bag of individually interesting move ideas with no cohesive theme (gameplaywise. They all have an aesthetic theme based around the character, obviously). Pacman, Corrin, WFT, ect.. Like if you really want to stretch to fit everyone into an archetype you could call Pacman stage control or Corrin zoning ect. but they really aren't strongly centered around those things or anything really. That said, even if your character's moveset has no strong theme conceptually, you still need to put them together in a way that makes for a cohesive playstyle in practice.

I think for fans making movesets is way easier to come up with a moveset if you follow a basic theme, because then the ideas just kind of naturally flow as you think about what moves support that archetype or gimmick. They're also way easier to sell to other people. "Grab bag" characters take a lot of talent and probably a lot of playtesting to make work and tend to be "I didn't believe this would work at all until I played them" type of deals. Still, I think it's important to note that those kinds of characters do still have a place in Smash and aren't necessarily a case of weak design.

 

[Nekoo]

Honestly I believe Villager do represents a lot of the main game mechanics by himself. And You won't ever tell me otherwise-
While I'm personally not fond of another Animal Crossing Playable character...

I have to admit that the series is popular enough to get another character. But who? Not a single ****ing Idea. Probably Isabell... But what could she bring in the table that the villager doesn't represent from the series while being faithful of her character and being unique enough and translate well in Smash?

And No. Fan moveset are more than 95% of the times horrible in practice if they would be implemented in smash. People truly don't realize that.

So I'll wait for Sakurai and his team to surprise me if Another AC rep there is.

 

[CroonerMike]

I for one think people who think Villager is enough? Probably haven't played or seen more than 5 minutes of AC.

It's ALWAYS read that way to me, because anyone who has put any extensive time into an Animal Crossing game could simply not look at Villager and think he represents everything there is to that series.

I mean, I love animal crossing. I played all the games and enjoyed them. It's literally my own opinion that I just only care to have villager in smash. Yes villager doesn't represent everything in animal crossing nor does characters like Shulk. I think your comment is more an emotional outburst for wanting more.

 

[Pacack]

When it comes to Tom Nook's motivation for bells, he is professional at in the money making business. For me, it is easy to imagine that Tom Nook would be motivated to fight in combat if it meant bigger profits on his end. For that reason, it is easier to imagine Tom Nook fighting than Isabelle for me. Although, it does not mean I think it would be harder to create a moveset for Isabelle, it's just easier to picture just based on Tom's fan-depicted characterization:

See, I don't think that's an accurate reading of the character.

Tom Nook is a clever and shrewd businessman, yes, but he's never getting his hands dirty if he can manage otherwise.

He sees you looking all desolate in town and what does he do? He makes a calculated risk that becoming your renter will pay off for him a lot in the long run because you'll want to increase your house size.

Doesn't mean he's a bad guy, though, and I'd imagine he wants the best for you, both as a client and as someone he took under his wing.

He sees that he can make money with the situation, but he never actually does the hard stuff himself. He signs contracts, finalizes plans, and submits paperwork, but he prefers to be doing it all in his store if he can manage it.

And I think there's a reason for that. He's implied to be Timmy and Tommy's dad (same species, all have names that start with T, all work at the same place in some games, the kids seem to have inherited the family business while Tom branches out into house construction), and it seems he has a busy home life with them on his hands. He's trying to support them and teach them to be successful the the world, particularly the world of business.

Note that he has them doing a lot of the heavy lifting even in the first game. They're at the furniture place, while he's the one taking care of selling essentials like tools, stationary, and gardening supplies. He wants them to learn the hard parts of the job like moving stuff and convincing customers that they really do need a fourth bed. And he's gotten them trained well enough to place his trust in them to do what he needs them to.

That said, he's not evil. By no stretch of the imagination is he malicious. A little greedy? Yeah, probably, sure.

But he has a clear moral code that he abides by; he even actively displays displeasure with Redd because of his less-than-honest business practices, iirc. This isn't a man who values bells over people, and he intentionally cause another person harm, even if it would benefit him financially.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You don't need to represent every single facet of a game series through playable characters.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Honestly I believe Villager do represents a lot of the main game mechanics by himself. And You won't ever tell me otherwise-
While I'm personally not fond of another Animal Crossing Playable character...

I have to admit that the series is popular enough to get another character. But who? Not a single ****ing Idea. Probably Isabell... But what could she bring in the table that the villager doesn't represent from the series while being faithful of her character and being unique enough and translate well in Smash?

And No. Fan moveset are more than 95% of the times horrible in practice if they would be implemented in smash. People truly don't realize that.

So I'll wait for Sakurai and his team to surprise me if Another AC rep there is.

Oh, Nekoo , you're breaking my heart, man.

If Animal Crossing gets another rep, would you be disappointed?

 

[Nekoo]

Oh, Nekoo , you're breaking my heart, man.

If Animal Crossing gets another rep, would you be disappointed?

As I already said. I'm a simple man, I would be pleased with any character being added, because i'm way over the "MUH REP" or whatever debate. I'm just hyped for any new moveset, and I love most of Nintendo property and video games in general-

So I wouldn't be disappointed. Quite the contrary, I would be surprised and excited to see how Sakurai would bring another AC newcomers to life!

You don't need to represent every single facet of a game series through playable characters.

If only the Fire Emblem Detractor could hear you. Bless You man.

 

[Roberk]

You don't need to represent every single facet of a game series through playable characters.

This is a point I advocate for strongly. Series representation does not equal CSS/Roster slots. For example, Zelda's playable characters may be going through a few rough spots, but I believe that the number of items, assist trophies, and stages Zelda gets help represent the franchise very well. Same goes for other franchises, it's more than just the roster.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I mean, I love animal crossing. I played all the games and enjoyed them. It's literally my own opinion that I just only care to have villager in smash. Yes villager doesn't represent everything in animal crossing nor does characters like Shulk. I think your comment is more an emotional outburst for wanting more.

Nah, man.

But believe whatever you like.

I mean you troll a lot, so your post for all we know is just trying to get the emotional outburst you so want.

 

[Nu~]

I don't think that's necessarily true. While Smash has been going increasingly for archetype characters, there's still some characters that I'd soonest describe as a grab bag of individually interesting move ideas with no cohesive theme (gameplaywise. They all have an aesthetic theme based around the character, obviously). Pacman, Corrin, WFT, ect.. Like if you really want to stretch to fit everyone into an archetype you could call Pacman stage control or Corrin zoning ect. but they really aren't strongly centered around those things or anything really. That said, even if your character's moveset has no strong theme conceptually, you still need to put them together in a way that makes for a cohesive playstyle in practice.

I think for fans making movesets is way easier to come up with a moveset if you follow a basic theme, because then the ideas just kind of naturally flow as you think about what moves support that archetype or gimmick. They're also way easier to sell to other people. "Grab bag" characters take a lot of talent and probably a lot of playtesting to make work and tend to be "I didn't believe this would work at all until I played them" type of deals. Still, I think it's important to note that those kinds of characters do still have a place in Smash and aren't necessarily a case of weak design.

This. I tend to prefer more eclectic movesets than an all-encompassing theme

That’s kind of what I wanted Kirby to be from the start but instead we got only like 5 abilities spread across an entire moveset.
Perhaps he’ll get more abilities implemented into his moveset in smash 5?

 

[PSIguy89]

When we were all discussing who might get “chromd” in this game my first thought was Isabelle tbh. Decidueye is a close 2nd though. As well loved and popular as she is, I can honestly see her being passed over. I’m more or less fine either way though

 

[CroonerMike]

Nah, man.

But believe whatever you like.

I mean you troll a lot, so your post for all we know is just trying to get the emotional outburst you so want.

Already got it little buddy.

But nah man, I am simply having a conversation with you.

Anyway, I don't care if animal crossing gets a new rep or not, all I'm simply saying is I find villager enough! No need for sarcasm.