Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[ErenJager]

*Someone mentions a random Pokemon*

Three days later: "Where is all this support for [insert Pokemon] coming from?"

Tossin' bonsley's and squirt bottlin ppl.

 

[Opossum]

Nantenjex has been giving a lot of characters unusually high scores, while at the same time giving Pauline a 1%, I don't get.

Honestly any video with him giving the rating is a lost cause, I've found. The Celica video was a pretty good example. Like, she's far from a shoo in, and I say that as one of her biggest advocates, but the arguments against her were laughably bad. It used Pichu's cut status in Brawl as "proof" that a self-damage-in-exchange-for-high-power gimmick wouldn't work, despite the slew of other reasons Pichu may have been cut, for one. And then the video was really disingenuous by implying her best shot would be as a Marth clone because of Warriors, ignoring the reasons they made her a clone there in the first place (last minute addition, each character locked to one weapon, and they felt having her use a tome would've gone against her character since she spellslings without one...none of these are limitations that Smash would have). Didn't help that the video used Warriors footage exclusively and the description was just "Female Mage Marth."

Yeah, Nantenjex has a lot of issues with his arguments.

 

[Deleted member]

Mega Man, Pac-Man, Sonic Man, Jumpman, Bomberman, Rayman and Spring Man. What other "Men" are possible?

Need i say more?

 

[AwesomeAussie27]

*Someone mentions a random Pokemon*

Three days later: "Where is all this support for [insert Pokemon] coming from?"

Eevee bandwagons for the Let’s Go Pokemon rumors in a nutshell

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Honestly any video with him giving the rating is a lost cause, I've found. The Celica video was a pretty good example. Like, she's far from a shoo in, and I say that as one of her biggest advocates, but the arguments against her were laughably bad. It used Pichu's cut status in Brawl as "proof" that a self-damage-in-exchange-for-high-power gimmick wouldn't work, despite the slew of other reasons Pichu may have been cut, for one. And then the video was really disingenuous by implying her best shot would be as a Marth clone because of Warriors, ignoring the reasons they made her a clone there in the first place (last minute addition, each character locked to one weapon, and they felt having her use a tome would've gone against her character since she spellslings without one...none of these are limitations that Smash would have). Didn't help that the video used Warriors footage exclusively and the description was just "Female Mage Marth."

Yeah, Nantenjex has a lot of issues with his arguments.

To be honest, the only major things I agree with him on is that the "trends of the time" Sakurai has talked about for previous games would still be a big factor for Smash Switch and that Sakurai could have started development in early 2016 based off his "breather" comment.

 

[Sage of Ice]

So what you're saying is I can psyops a fanbase for Smeargle into existence?

hello yes i am here, what time does the hype train leave for smeargle station?

smeargle's up there with genesect in the "pokemon reps thatd make me really happy but im not holding my breath" category.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I could honestly care less what Pokemon newcomers get in honestly.

As long as they're fun I'll take em

 

[Wyoming]

*Someone mentions a random Pokemon*

Three days later: "Where is all this support for [insert Pokemon] coming from?"

Let me tell you about Arbok:

1. A gen 1 anime staple!
2. Relevant again due to new games
3. It's purple. How many characters are purple? Exactly.

Come on, the Arbok train is underway!

 

[Pacack]

Eh, I do not think Dixie and Cranky would be jumbled together though. When it came to Tropical Freeze marketing in 2014, they were advertised separately and not mainly together. I feel Dixie and Kiddy would make more sense as a duo because of how contrasting they would be. Just a brief idea, but I would imagine Dixie would have a strong air with a weakness of being lightweight. Kiddy would be heavy and powerful, but having a weak air game and being a fastfaller. That would create a more distinct play-style than Dixie and Cranky together.

While an interesting idea, it's not as realizable because of Kiddy Kong's significant absence from the series recently. It would be bizarre to bring him back in Smash before in his home series.

I was originally considering Dixie and Funky together for similar reasons (and because both character models can use the other Kongs as starting points), but Funky was not playable until recently. I suppose it's still possible that Sakurai might've decided Funky would work better to contrast them when considering how much time could be saved by using DK and Diddy as the base models. That said, it's probably best to predict Dixie making it alone despite the scrapped team idea.

I cannot see a spinoff being a big influence to a character's inclusion. If anything, important appearances in new mainline Zelda titles would factor to her inclusion more. Old Impa's role in BOTW is not that significant.

I think Hyrule Warriors could be a notable exception based on how significant a game it ended up being. It was released on three different consoles, was the only new Zelda game for the Wii U, and received extremely positive attention. Further, Impa is a popular character and the most recurring character in the Zelda series to not yet be playable in Smash.

Given the popularity of the series, the success of Hyrule Warriors, the release of BotW, and even the rereleases of OoT, MM, TP, and WW, it's not unreasonable to think that Sakurai would consider a Zelda character. If he does, then Impa makes more sense than any of her competition, which is mostly one off characters and Tingle.

I cannot see Funky being added late in development. Sakurai only added clones in Smash 4 with alternate costume to character situations last game, and I cannot imagine Funky starting out as an alternate costume. It is more likely that potential newcomer clones that get added in Smash Switch will be planned from the start rather than adding during mid-development.

That's fair. Funky is admittedly a reach on my part.

Even with Sakurai's personal history of Castlevania being more significant than Bomberman? I am not so sure on that. I think Simon having a high amount of support would be sufficable for Sakurai to take the opportunity negotiate Simon first over Bomberman.

Well, Sakurai has in the past rejected characters that he personally wants in favor of characters that are more requested. See: Takamaru.

That said, Simon Belmont is making more and more sense to me. I'll have to wait and see, but it's possible that the leak is right. I'm considering making a change to my roster so it has Simon, which then makes it align with the leak.

I definitely thought so about Decidueye previously, until I researched the Pokemon criteria Sakurai gave way back in Smash 4. It is important that a newcomer has a combination of benefits such as being marketed heavily in other media, anime significance, having unique potential, and being a Pokemon TPC will push in the future. Decidueye has uniqueness, but nothing beyond that to help his favor, even if Decidueye would perfectly fill in a distinct character archetype for the roster.

That's extremely fair.

Honestly I'm having a hard time making a solid prediction on the Pokemon newcomers. Decidueye has been my go to in the past, but it's beginning to look like a toss up between him, Lycanroc, Mimikyu, and Rowlet. I haven't given up hope on him since Rowlet is still being pushed by TPC and Decidueye seems to be the most unique among those ones, but I'm definitely not confident.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Deidueye is pretty much Smash 5's version of Smash 4's Sceptile, it's pretty much the same reasons "starter trio" "unrepresented generation".

I'd add Zeraora to the list of Lycanroc and Mimikyu for good measure.
To a lesser extent maybe even Incineroar and Buzzwole.

Zeraora would be an interesting choice. Between Incineroar and Buzzwole, I think Incineroar has a better chance just because the whole leaked pictures from so long ago, but I get why Buzzwole could be picked too because of the whole ultra beast schtick.

God, I love Pokémon.

 

[Pacack]

Honestly, if we get an Ultra Beast, it wouldn't be Buzzwole (as much as I want him) since he's a version exclusive.

Nihilego is more significant to Sun and Moon than any other Ultra Beast.

 

[Luminario]

Can I ask why people want Pauline? I finished Odyssey myself and she never really does anything. I'm not trying to be a hater but Pauline's done even less than Daisy and many people here think Daisy might as well not exist. Is it just because Pauline was the chick in the original Donkey Kong game? What would she do in Smash?

EDIT: Not saying she doesn't "deserve" a spot by any means. I just have no clue why she has such a large fanbase for the little I've seen her do.

Can't really speak for anyone else but I just like really her as a character. I'd also love to see the Minis from Mario VS DK in Smash and I think they'd go very well with her.
If you want reasons for her to legitimately be in Smash then she's an integral part of Nintendo's history being in the original DK arcade game along with appearing in like every Mario vs DK game and now Odyssey. There's a reason so many people reacted positively to her appearance in Odyssey. She's not really got much of a chance in hell for Smash but still, we like her.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Honestly any video with him giving the rating is a lost cause, I've found. The Celica video was a pretty good example. Like, she's far from a shoo in, and I say that as one of her biggest advocates, but the arguments against her were laughably bad. It used Pichu's cut status in Brawl as "proof" that a self-damage-in-exchange-for-high-power gimmick wouldn't work, despite the slew of other reasons Pichu may have been cut, for one. And then the video was really disingenuous by implying her best shot would be as a Marth clone because of Warriors, ignoring the reasons they made her a clone there in the first place (last minute addition, each character locked to one weapon, and they felt having her use a tome would've gone against her character since she spellslings without one...none of these are limitations that Smash would have). Didn't help that the video used Warriors footage exclusively and the description was just "Female Mage Marth."

Yeah, Nantenjex has a lot of issues with his arguments.

Nah, she's clearly as likely as Chun-Li but less likely than Quote and Blood Falcon, and she's only slightly more likely than Giygas.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think Hyrule Warriors could be a notable exception based on how significant a game it ended up being. It was released on three different consoles, was the only new Zelda game for the Wii U, and received extremely positive attention. Further, Impa is a popular character and the most recurring character in the Zelda series to not yet be playable in Smash.

Given the popularity of the series, the success of Hyrule Warriors, the release of BotW, and even the rereleases of OoT, MM, TP, and WW, it's not unreasonable to think that Sakurai would consider a Zelda character. If he does, then Impa makes more sense than any of her competition, which is mostly one off characters and Tingle.

BOTW will probably be the biggest influence for new Zelda content, but I do not see a new character coming unless such a character becomes an important, notable, and popular staple for the franchise. I do not see Impa as a significant enough Zelda character for me to see her as a playable character. I can see BOTW Champions being very briefly considered for playable characters, but that is as far as I feel Sakurai will touch with the Zelda newcomer pool.

 

[Cosmic77]

Can I ask why people want Pauline? I finished Odyssey myself and she never really does anything. I'm not trying to be a hater but Pauline's done even less than Daisy and many people here think Daisy might as well not exist. Is it just because Pauline was the chick in the original Donkey Kong game? What would she do in Smash?

EDIT: Not saying she doesn't "deserve" a spot by any means. I just have no clue why she has such a large fanbase for the little I've seen her do.

People are thinking she'll be Odyssey's "Rosalina".

I can definitely see the appeal for Pauline. I'd really like for her to incorporate some of Mario's abilities from Odyssey into her moveset, but that's an idea most people aren't sold on. The next best thing would be for her to have a hodge podge of moves from the games she appeared in (attack with a mic stand and various instruments, use Minis, etc.).

I think Hyrule Warriors could be a notable exception based on how significant a game it ended up being. It was released on three different consoles, was the only new Zelda game for the Wii U, and received extremely positive attention. Further, Impa is a popular character and the most recurring character in the Zelda series to not yet be playable in Smash.

Given the popularity of the series, the success of Hyrule Warriors, the release of BotW, and even the rereleases of OoT, MM, TP, and WW, it's not unreasonable to think that Sakurai would consider a Zelda character. If he does, then Impa makes more sense than any of her competition, which is mostly one off characters and Tingle.

That's something I'll have to disagree with. Impa's best shot was back in Smash 4 after the 2011 release of both OoT3D and SS. Hyrule Warriors was a big game, no questions there. However, it's no contest when you compare it to what BotW was back then. If Sakurai is going with a BotW theme this time around, then I honestly can't imagine why he'd randomly shoot for Impa when the version of her we want in Smash wasn't present in BotW.

Just for the sake of sticking with the theme and adding a character from something as massive as BotW, I'm gonna have to say the Champions are more likely (Sorry if I came across as matter-of-factly. I just can't wait for Mipha's day in the RTC thread. I've been dying to make my argument).

 

[ErenJager]

So the N64 has been trademarked by nintendo... suggesting the N64 Classic console.

Smash 64?

Metal Mario confirmed?

Does this potentially open a window of opportunity for characters more relevant back in the 64 era?

What kind of surprises could this console have, akin to Star Fox 2 on SNES Classic?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

(Sorry if I came across as matter-of-factly. I just can't wait for Mipha's day in the RTC thread. I've been dying to make my argument).

And I'll be interested in reading it.

 

[SonicMario]

Not that I'm a big Pauline supporter or anything myself (Though I wouldn't mind her per se. A moveset that combines the original Arcade game, Mario Vs. Donkey kong (With attacking mini-marios most likely), and Odyssey all-in-one has some intriguing possibilities.)

She did appear in something that kinda makes it seem Nintendo really does see her as a starring female character

You have 3 of the 5 that are already in Smash (Peach, Rosalina, and Zelda). 1 That was considered for Brawl but ultimately dropped (Toon Zelda). And then for some reason Pauline is there.

Not something I personally put alot of bank on myself. But I'm pretty sure it at least made Daisy fans seethe with anger/jealousy :V

 

[Roberk]

Guys, Torterra will happen. It's a perfect newcomer for both Pokemon and Smash! "We need more heavyweights." Boom. "We need more Grass starters." Boom. "We need more non-humanoid designs." Boom.

And relevancy? Sinnoh remakes bois.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Here's my admittedly boring prediction roster based on the idea that the Ridley, Simon, icies leak is true.

 

[ErenJager]

Here's my admittedly boring prediction roster based on the idea that the Ridley, Simon, icies leak is true.

Very beautifully put together.

 

[Murlough]

And relevancy? Sinnoh remakes bois.

Yeah, I thought so, too. Now we get gen 1 again and everyone is expecting gen 8 before Sinnoh remakes. Sad me.

But I'm pretty sure it at least made Daisy fans seethe with anger/jealousy :V

Very, very, very, very sad me.

Rip Daisy.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is there any reason to believe the Ridley/Simon/IC leak?

 

[Cosmic77]

And I'll be interested in reading it.

Please do. Not many people have faith in the Champions, so I've really got to give it my all if I want to convince the toxic cesspool of negativity and pessimism filling up RTC thread that Mipha has a genuine chance.

Not that I have high hopes. Anything higher than a 33% would make me extremely happy.

Not that I'm a big Pauline supporter or anything myself (Though I wouldn't mind her per se. A moveset that combines the original Arcade game, Mario Vs. Donkey kong (With attacking mini-marios most likely), and Odyssey all-in-one has some intriguing possibilities.)

She did appear in something that kinda makes it seem Nintendo really does see her as a starring female character

You have 3 of the 5 that are already in Smash (Peach, Rosalina, and Zelda). 1 That was considered for Brawl but ultimately dropped (Toon Zelda). And then for some reason Pauline is there.

Not something I personally put alot of bank on myself. But I'm pretty sure it at least made Daisy fans seethe with anger/jealousy :V

Honestly, that appearance really surprised me. It made me happy, but that seemed like the golden opportunity to include someone more iconic like Daisy or Toadette.

Here's my admittedly boring prediction roster based on the idea that the Ridley, Simon, icies leak is true.

Seems like a safe guess all around. I have some doubts about Impa and Decidueye, but I guess it's still reasonable to expect them.

 

[Pakky]

Your daily reminder that Mimikyu is the best.

Its fighting Pikachu in the anime and uses its Z move on him.

Is there any reason to believe the Ridley/Simon/IC leak?

Yeah, I second that.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Is there any reason to believe the Ridley/Simon/IC leak?

The guy behind the leak also leaked MP4 and the fact that Namco is developing it apparently, there's not that much to go on otherwise tho

 

[FlareHabanero]

It’s the things like this that make me stop taking Rate That Character serious.

It was never meant to be taken seriously to be frank. Even Nantenjex admitted it was just for fun.

 

[Cosmic77]

The guy behind the leak also leaked MP4 and the fact that Namco is developing it apparently, there's not that much to go on otherwise tho

The source who leaked the Namco thing is only claiming that Ridley is in the game. The Ridley, Simon, and Ice Climbers part is from someone else. Someone who Vergeben knows who has "gotten things right in the short time that he has known them".

 

[YoshiandToad]

Seen some Pokemon talk, thought I'd bring one up;

Has Poipole ever been considered? It's an Ultra Beast, notably the only one that evolves and part of Ash's team in the anime(which makes it his first one of a kind Pokemon?).

Seems like it should be a prime candidate for consideration but I've not seen any talk about it before?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Please do. Not many people have faith in the Champions, so I've really got to give it my all if I want to convince the toxic cesspool of negativity and pessimism filling up RTC thread that Mipha has a genuine chance.

Not that I have high hopes. Anything higher than a 33% would make me extremely happy.



Honestly, that appearance really surprised me. It made me happy, but that seemed like the golden opportunity to include someone more iconic like Daisy or Toadette.



Seems like a safe guess all around. I have some doubts about Impa and Decidueye, but I guess it's still reasonable to expect them.

Yeah, Impa's a character I'm not sure of but I'm banking on the fact that we will get some type of Zelda rep, I just don't know who. The same applies to Takamaru, you could replace him with any retro character.

 

[One winged Devil]

He also leak the Ninja Turtles being in Injustice 2 along side Enchantress.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Not that I'm a big Pauline supporter or anything myself (Though I wouldn't mind her per se. A moveset that combines the original Arcade game, Mario Vs. Donkey kong (With attacking mini-marios most likely), and Odyssey all-in-one has some intriguing possibilities.)

She did appear in something that kinda makes it seem Nintendo really does see her as a starring female character

You have 3 of the 5 that are already in Smash (Peach, Rosalina, and Zelda). 1 That was considered for Brawl but ultimately dropped (Toon Zelda). And then for some reason Pauline is there.

Not something I personally put alot of bank on myself. But I'm pretty sure it at least made Daisy fans seethe with anger/jealousy :V

I feel Pauline and the spirit/phantom version of Toon Zelda are strong contenders for this installment. These are very popular female Nintendo characters. Not saying being female helps their chances. Just using that to describe them.

 

[monadoboy]

Here's my admittedly boring prediction roster based on the idea that the Ridley, Simon, icies leak is true.

All 58 characters return, as do wolf and icies. Plus 13 newcomers gives us a roster of 73 characters total.

Not boring at all, it's pretty solid and believable. Aside from Dixie (her design freaks me out, the blond hair and make up-like appearance feels uncanny valley-ish to me) Rayman (he sticks out like a sore thumb among the third parties) and Isabelle (I like her a lot but I don't want to hurt her tbh), I love it.

Seen some Pokemon talk, thought I'd bring one up;

Has Poipole ever been considered? It's an Ultra Beast, notably the only one that evolves and part of Ash's team in the anime(which makes it his first one of a kind Pokemon?).

Seems like it should be a prime candidate for consideration but I've not seen any talk about it before?

Considering he's basically a 7.5 gen Pokemon, I'd say too late, like Zeraora.

 

[IronTed]

Is there any reason to believe the Ridley/Simon/IC leak?

The Ridley part of the leak is not new, he already claimed that since March.

The Simon part is new, but he isn't as sure about it. It's worth keeping in mind, but Vergeben's record is too iffy to be confident of it one way or the other.

 

[AreJay25]

Is there any reason to believe the Ridley/Simon/IC leak?

The source is Vergeben. Who's not exactly the most reliable of leakers.

Seeing as how he's gotten a few things right, I guess it's something to keep in mind.

The guy behind the leak also leaked MP4 and the fact that Namco is developing it apparently, there's not that much to go on otherwise tho

That was actually leaked a few days before. The guy tends to piggyback off of others (notably with Street Fighter 5).

 

[Kooj Kooj]

It was never meant to be taken seriously to be frank. Even Nantenjex admitted it was just for fun.

This is very true. I think people are misunderstanding the purpose of these videos. They're not intended to be compared to each other, it's not some overall hierarchy of percentages. I think the percentages are just there to sum up the thoughts of the individual person making that video. I think they're supposed to be viewed as a vacuum individually.

The whole point of them is just to bring views to the channel with videos that deliver on a quick promise. "Hey, we're gonna talk about this character some and then give it a number." It's easy to watch and doesn't require a lot of commitment for the viewer or the people producing them. Additionally, it's nice that it gets people talking about characters! Although, the natural outcome (because frankly it's easier) is that people simply compare the figures at the end of the video instead of talking about the pros and cons.

 

[Gameboi834]

Here's my admittedly boring prediction roster based on the idea that the Ridley, Simon, icies leak is true.

I would be very content with this roster.

 

[Murlough]

Seen some Pokemon talk, thought I'd bring one up;

Has Poipole ever been considered? It's an Ultra Beast, notably the only one that evolves and part of Ash's team in the anime(which makes it his first one of a kind Pokemon?).

Seems like it should be a prime candidate for consideration but I've not seen any talk about it before?

I don't see him as likely at all. Sakurai apparently decides most of the charcaters he wants in before development. If Smash Switch development was started in 2016 than Poipole didn't even exist, yet. I don't feel like this is a great point personally but it is one nonetheless.

His body just seems really hard to make work in Smash. It's alot easier with the very limited animations in Pokemon but in Smash they go frame by frame and I just can't imagine Poipole....doing anything but spitting acid.

(Also it isn't actually one of a kind. Eventually they will let you catch multiple just like every other Ultra Beast prior, I'm calling it now.)

I feel Pauline and the spirit/phantom version of Toon Zelda are strong contenders for this installment. These are very popular female Nintendo characters. Not saying being female helps their chances. Just using that to describe them.

I asked this question earlier but since you think Pauline is likely: how would Paulina play in Smash 5? What would she do? What is there for her to draw a move-set from?

 

[TheLastJinjo]

Seen some Pokemon talk, thought I'd bring one up;

Has Poipole ever been considered? It's an Ultra Beast, notably the only one that evolves and part of Ash's team in the anime(which makes it his first one of a kind Pokemon?).

Seems like it should be a prime candidate for consideration but I've not seen any talk about it before?

I've brought up Poipole before, but he's sandwiched between Zeraora who is starring in the upcoming movie, and Mimikyu who is a member of Team Rocket and has been appearing in numerous episodes as a major character since episode three.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Can I ask why people want Pauline? I finished Odyssey myself and she never really does anything. I'm not trying to be a hater but Pauline's done even less than Daisy and many people here think Daisy might as well not exist. Is it just because Pauline was the chick in the original Donkey Kong game? What would she do in Smash?

EDIT: Not saying she doesn't "deserve" a spot by any means. I just have no clue why she has such a large fanbase for the little I've seen her do.

Pauline sings and is loyal to Mario...that in itself is good enough for her to atleast be a background stage singer for an Odyssey stage