Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if there even any props for newcomers given that the reveals would likely be made after the press has already got on the floor because Nintendo is the good little boy who waits until Christmas to open his presents and doesn't open them early like everyone else.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I wonder if there even any props for newcomers given that the reveals would likely be made after the press has already got on the floor because Nintendo is the good little boy who waits until Christmas to open his presents and doesn't open them early like everyone else.

Probably not. If anything it'd be the Inkling's Splattershot.

 

[SmashChu]

From what @FlareHabanero mentioned yesterday, I think something to keep in mind is the lack of true firepower in terms of titles that came out during the Wii U era. If I have time today I'm going to take a look at what has come out since Smash Wii U came out/DLC ended and take a look at 1st party games. The Wii U was largely filled with Mario titles, whereas I think the 3DS has much more to use.

From what I'm already thinking about, I think there's absolutely a chance that the focus of this game is more current stuff. There's really nothing to prove it, but all I will say is that the two things we know are already in Smash are Inklings and BOTW Link. If I remember correctly, BOTW was the last 1st Party title Nintendo developed for Wii U, and if that's the game that connects the Wii U generation and the Switch generation, I think it's completely plausible that they're looking to the future. How far into the future? I can't say.

Like I said I'm going to take a look in a little bit.

Its interesting you bring this up because it's something I've been thinking about as well. Most of the big games that came out from Smash 4 to now were in 2017. I expect that all of those games would be present in Smash in someway. Obviously Xenoblade 2 and ARMS have potential for characters as does BoTW, but I wouldn't doubt we'd see stuff from Mario Odyssey, 1-2-Switch and Splatoon 2(though we'll get a lot of Splatoon I'm sure).

There are two things I notice people are doing when it comes to speculation. They live in the past and they expect everything will be the same as before. I think this is why people dismiss the 2017 games so quickly. There is this assumption that these came out "too late" based on some cutoff. But Sakurai would likely have inside knowledge of the games in production.

To your point about the future, this Smash will be different than the other as Nintendo has been using their "Games as a Service" model for all their multiplayer titles. They all have a testfire of some kind and they all get added content down the road. Nintendo even boasted how the updates for Splatoon increased engagement (it would be in the investor presentation for 3/31/18). Smash will likely follow suit and add characters and other content over time. If this is the case, then the development process would be "on going" as it was for Splatoon and ARMS. They could add characters from games that came out later as the roster would be ever expanding. It may also mean fewer characters at the start, but thats a story for another day.

I'm interested in reading your full thoughts on the subject. I'm glad some people are trying to think outside the box.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Donkey Kong newcomers discussion?

It's hilarious seeing people mention relevancy as an important factor (used against K. Rool, used in favor of Dixie, Cranky, and Funky) when Sakurai himself didn't even say it's a criteria that has to be met. And honestly it makes sense, Smash is a relevancy maker, it doesn't need to focus on being hip and cool and add the new flavor of the month because it knows it's already hip and cool. Otherwise, why would we have characters like that still stick around with us to this day?

Anyways, according to the link above, his criteria is as follows:

• "The character must display personality in their game."
• "It's important to have something only that character can do."
• "Potential development issues and game balance is also taken into consideration."
• "Distribution among franchises is also taken into consideration."

K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky, and Funky all fit the bill, so all four of them are fair game according to this criteria.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Donkey Kong newcomers discussion?

It's hilarious seeing people mention relevancy as an important factor (used against K. Rool, used in favor of Dixie, Cranky, and Funky) when Sakurai himself didn't even say it's a criteria that has to be met. And honestly it makes sense, Smash is a relevancy maker, it doesn't need to focus on being hip and cool and add the new flavor of the month because it knows it's already hip and cool. Otherwise, why would we have characters like that still stick around with us to this day?

Anyways, according to the link above, his criteria is as follows:

• "The character must display personality in their game."
• "It's important to have something only that character can do."
• "Potential development issues and game balance is also taken into consideration."
• "Distribution among franchises is also taken into consideration."

K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky, and Funky all fit the bill, so all four of them are fair game according to this criteria.

So true. It's been so long since I've played a Donkey Kong game, what could each one of them uniquely do???

 

[Antimatter042]

I wonder if there even any props for newcomers given that the reveals would likely be made after the press has already got on the floor because Nintendo is the good little boy who waits until Christmas to open his presents and doesn't open them early like everyone else.

With the exception of Inkling props I think you might be right about that. However, there's one exception case I can think of that lends well to an interesting topic of discussion.

Most people following this thread are pretty sure of a 3rd party newcomer being revealed in Nintendo's Presentation. However, does anyone else think there's a strong possibility that if someone like Rayman or a Dragon Quest Hero or even a Bethesda rep is getting revealed, it gets teased at their owner's conference with the promise of a gameplay reveal at Nintendo's? That kind of reveal staggered between companies seems like a way to wet gamers' appetites and ensures both sides of a guest character's appearance benefit from the reveal.

 

[osby]

Otherwise, why would we have characters like that still stick around with us to this day?

I agree with your point, but Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Roy and Lucas (and Ness, to a lesser extend) were pretty new when they added to the game. It seems you don't have to be relevant to stay in the game, but when entering it really helps, unless you are from a specific hardware that isn't represented by a character already. Of course, it's not written in stone.

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I agree with your point, but Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff, Roy and Lucas (and Ness, to a lesser extend) were pretty new when they added to the game. It seems you don't have to be relevant to stay in the game, but when entering it really helps, unless you are from a specific hardware that isn't represented by a character already. Of course, it's not written in stone.

I was referring to the roster as a whole, veterans included. Not just newcomers.

 

[SquashiniKun]

I made one, like, yesterday. I'm more than happy to show it to everyone.

(hopefully the link won't break anytime soon)

So, let's start with the basics.
I've tried to make a mix between the roster of my dreams and a more realistic one.
There are 24 newcomers, 18 included in the game and 6 DLCs.
A total of 80 characters.

Spoiler: Newcomers

Classic Mario and Classic Link - Mario and Link will probably get reworked in this new iteration of the game, to match more faithfully their new moveset in Odyssey and Breath of the Wild respectively, yet I feel like Masahiro Sakurai wouldn't want to just delete two of the most iconic movesets in the game. So, here the two guys. I think Dr. Mario and Toon Link will get removed to make space to the melee versions of Mario and Link. They could also do that and keep the two clones, I guess.

Captain Toad - They gave him his own game. He makes several cameos in other Mario games (especially Odyssey), there's no way they won't include him in Smash. Have no idea for a moveset or a Final Smash, never played his game.

Waluigi - It got requested a lot and Sakurai likes to make his fans happy, so yeah. A joke character with an item-based moveset and a troll Final Smash. To make us happy. c:

Classic Ganondorf - There's no way. No way. But a man can dream.

Pyra - I don't know anything about Xenoblade but heh, people seem to like her.

Marx and Midna - Two characters way past their prime, but that got a lot of positive feedback from their (relatively) recent appearances in Kirby Star Allies and Hyrule Warriors respectively. I have the opinion that the team behind Smash will focus on more caster in this game, especially considering the general lack of them, lmao. Marx would be a deadly caster with great mobility and zoning specials, while Midna more of a fast assassin riding her wolf, but still with a "zoner" feel in here, using his arm-hairdo as a tool to strain foes in the same place.

Alphie - Yeah, with seven different kinds of Pikmin and counting playing Olimar is becoming more complex than he's intended to be. Wouldn't be bad for Olimar to keep his classic Red, Blue and Yellow Pikmin while Alph gets the special ones, such as Purple, White and Rock. Three for each, sounds fair to me. ~
While Olimar would still be going for a more offensive path (read below), Alph would be way more passive and let the Pikmin fight more for him.

Inkling and Spring Man - They're both basically confirmed. I mean, Spring Man isn't, but come on. I won't talk about them, I'll just say that Inkling will have a male alt costume and possibly an Octoling costume, while Spring Man would have alt costumes that turn him into other characters from ARMS, such as Ribbon Girl or Twintelle.

New Fire Emblem Representative and New Pokémon Representative - Yeah, no idea. I guess that if it's true that the next Pokémon will take place in Kanto with the original 151, there won't be a NPR and the place will be given to a successful character from the latest generation, such as Decidueye.

Crash Bandicoot and Spyro - Fresh of Nintendo contract, they're probably going to be in Smash. I imagine Crash with a very "frontal" based combat style, with him just throwing himself against the enemies, while Spyro would probably have a more "caster"-esque fighting style, similar to Marx, but with also some strong headbutts to keep threatening foes away.

Shantae and Shovel Knight - Sky's the limit, we will probably have a couple "indie games" representives, and I ... Just really want these two, lol. I have low hopes for Shovel Knight, as he's been recently picked as guest character for another fighting game, Stranger Blades (along side with Isaac from The Binding of Isaac). On the other hand, Shantae seem to have a bigger chance, and considering the big cult following behind her that recently approached the Switch she would be a good candidate.

Mario-fied Rabbid - The first DLC. Basically, Mario with a gun. I don't want him either but the game was good and probably shared some developing time with Smash 5.

Sans - With Toby Fox willingly, with his game on Switch, with the fact that Sakurai probably will have another ballot to choose a new DLC character ... Yeah, an Undertale representative seem to be eligible enough to be a realistic expectation. Also, again, the game (probably) needs more casters and zoners.

Travis - No More Heroes as a franchise made multiple appearances on Nintendo consoles. I have no idea what his moveset would be like, I just see him fitting.

Spoiler: Reworked Veterans

Mario gets a complete moveset rework. He is now way faster and agiler in mid-air, with a moveset based on grabs and jump chains. Cappy is an integral part of his set, and "takes control" of enemies during the grabs. Mario can't really "control" the possessed foes, it's just a cosmetic way for them to be stunned. His Final Smash consists in him taking control of a big enemy from Odyssey, such as the dinosaur or the big snow clouds.

Link gets a visual and moveset rework. He is now in his Breath of the Wild form, and his four specials are the four Gifts of the Champions. He's way less item-based and relies more on his sword and his bow. No idea for a Final Smash.

Olimar loses Purple Pikmin and White Pikmin. His gameplay and moveset are more aggressive, with him actually going into fights, throwing punches and kicks and generally requiring him to go head-on into fights, as to fit his role of more experienced commander and survivor as opposed to Alphie, who's a more timid and passive fighter.

The Ice Climbers are finally back. Their kit is unchanged.

Mr. Game and Watch loses all its RNG elements from his moveset. Let's try to make him viable, m'kay Sakurai?

Little Mac actually gets a Final Smash that makes sense lmao.

Dr. Mario, Lucina, Toon Link and Dark Pit are straight up removed or turned into alternative costumes.

Duck Hunt is removed from the game. It's not like they had some flaws gameplay-wise or they were a bad character over all. I just hate the guts outta them lmao.

Lucas, Ganondorf and Falco are reworked more to be their own characters, since they have a playstyle different enough from their original versions to be, you know, actual characters. Best case scenario, Classic Ganondorf becomes a thing. Let the new one have his sword and his fancy hair, I want my Ganoncides and my Kicks of Doom.

The Mii Fighters gets more moves for their moveset and customizable Final Smashes.

What's with the empty spaces?

 

[osby]

I was referring to the roster as a whole, veterans included. Not just newcomers.

I know. It's just different rules apply to newcomers and veterans.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Donkey Kong newcomers discussion?

It's hilarious seeing people mention relevancy as an important factor (used against K. Rool, used in favor of Dixie, Cranky, and Funky) when Sakurai himself didn't even say it's a criteria that has to be met. And honestly it makes sense, Smash is a relevancy maker, it doesn't need to focus on being hip and cool and add the new flavor of the month because it knows it's already hip and cool. Otherwise, why would we have characters like that still stick around with us to this day?

Anyways, according to the link above, his criteria is as follows:

• "The character must display personality in their game."
• "It's important to have something only that character can do."
• "Potential development issues and game balance is also taken into consideration."
• "Distribution among franchises is also taken into consideration."

K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky, and Funky all fit the bill, so all four of them are fair game according to this criteria.

Recency is definitely a factor, it's just not the be-all-end-all of factors for Sakurai given that Geno was a character he considered and wanted for Smash.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If Cranky gets in to Smash and his trailer isn't just him and Mario seeing one another again after all these years and a red tinge of ''YOU!" followed by this playing:

Sakurai has failed.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Recency is definitely a factor, it's just not the be-all-end-all of factors for Sakurai given that Geno was a character he considered and wanted for Smash.

I'm glad you brought that up. What ultimately decided his fate of not making the cut, and do you think he will be a full fledged character this time around?

 

[Tree Gelbman]

I'm glad you brought that up. What ultimately decided his fate of not making the cut, and do you think he will be a full fledged character this time around?

I think it's because Mario has so many characters that have potential, and a trip to Square would be more spent on someone like Cloud or another more iconic to gaming character they own.

I do think Sakurai will reconsider Geno again this time, if he makes the cut who knows.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

So true. It's been so long since I've played a Donkey Kong game, what could each one of them uniquely do???

K. Rool has iconic weaponry from all his boss battles that he could put to good use, like his blunderbuss from DKC2 (which has many unique features like shooting multi0le types of prohectiles and propelling him around the stage), his hoverpack or other sciencey stuff from DKC3, and of course his crown and cannonballs from DKC1.

Cranky now has his cane pogo abilities from TF. He can use his barrel throwing skills from arcade DK, and posibly even use the items from the Returns games item shop like balloons or Squaks. If they really wanted a stretch, they could bring in the potions he made in DK64.

Funky could use the weaponry from DK64, but he would be more likely to use his staple surfboard for most of his attacks. He could maybe have normals be based around his funky poses and he becomes a water bender kind of character when he uses the board lol.

Dixie, despite being the 3rd most popular of the DK crew, I find the most trouble bringing up something truly unique. She has her hair, but most of her attacks could be replicated by Diddys tail. Dixei does have a hair ground pound and helicopter, but DK does those too with his arms. Maybe she could put animal buddies to good use? Otherwise she could be a composite of DK and Diddy, being a nice middle Kong. If anyone can give me something REALLY good for Dixie that im just not thinking of, please go ahead, because I think she really deserves a shot at Smash Bros.

 

[Pazzo.]

I think the only true criteria is "Sakurai".

 

[Nekoo]

Donkey Kong newcomers discussion?

It's hilarious seeing people mention relevancy as an important factor (used against K. Rool, used in favor of Dixie, Cranky, and Funky) when Sakurai himself didn't even say it's a criteria that has to be met. And honestly it makes sense, Smash is a relevancy maker, it doesn't need to focus on being hip and cool and add the new flavor of the month because it knows it's already hip and cool. Otherwise, why would we have characters like that still stick around with us to this day?

Anyways, according to the link above, his criteria is as follows:

• "The character must display personality in their game."
• "It's important to have something only that character can do."
• "Potential development issues and game balance is also taken into consideration."
• "Distribution among franchises is also taken into consideration."

K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky, and Funky all fit the bill, so all four of them are fair game according to this criteria.

I could easily break each of your point for every characters here.
But Using Roy is the only one really worth it, when Both Him and Ike got a full 3 Maps story DLC about his "Rivalry" with Ike in the Smash Community and was a DLC character for Awakening too.
And he had a popular fan demands.
And all of the characters beside Duck Hunt Duo/ROB and Game and Watch were relevant the moment they were added in the game.
And Sakurai hatting cut make them returning characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm glad you brought that up. What ultimately decided his fate of not making the cut, and do you think he will be a full fledged character this time around?

Most likely being owned by a third-party company that hasn't shown any interest in using him for the last +20 not even in the two Mario sports games they collaborated with Nintendo for.

As for the second question - absolutely not. For obvious reasons, Square Enix would never be okay with that.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Donkey Kong newcomers discussion?

It's hilarious seeing people mention relevancy as an important factor (used against K. Rool, used in favor of Dixie, Cranky, and Funky) when Sakurai himself didn't even say it's a criteria that has to be met. And honestly it makes sense, Smash is a relevancy maker, it doesn't need to focus on being hip and cool and add the new flavor of the month because it knows it's already hip and cool. Otherwise, why would we have characters like that still stick around with us to this day?

Anyways, according to the link above, his criteria is as follows:

• "The character must display personality in their game."
• "It's important to have something only that character can do."
• "Potential development issues and game balance is also taken into consideration."
• "Distribution among franchises is also taken into consideration."

K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky, and Funky all fit the bill, so all four of them are fair game according to this criteria.

There is this though:

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/13/sakurai-fe25/

Interviewer: In Smash for 3DS/ Wii U, there are far more Fire Emblem characters on the roster than in previous games. How did you go about the selection process for these characters?

Sakurai: It really depends on the situation. For example, Roy and Robin were included for completely different reasons. It also depends on luck, of course. Industry trends around the time when development begins is a pretty big factor. I started development on Smash for 3DS/ Wii U right after I’d wrapped up Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Fire Emblem Awakening was released one month after Uprising. So what’s popular around the time when I begin designing the game is important. Characters are almost never added after I’ve completed the project plan for Smash.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

If Cranky gets in to Smash and his trailer isn't just him and Mario seeing one another again after all these years and a red tinge of ''YOU!" followed by this playing:

Sakurai has failed.

Bonus points for Pauline also being revealed this way and it's just the three of them in this epic stare off with sirens blaring.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Donkey Kong newcomers discussion?

It's hilarious seeing people mention relevancy as an important factor (used against K. Rool, used in favor of Dixie, Cranky, and Funky) when Sakurai himself didn't even say it's a criteria that has to be met. And honestly it makes sense, Smash is a relevancy maker, it doesn't need to focus on being hip and cool and add the new flavor of the month because it knows it's already hip and cool. Otherwise, why would we have characters like that still stick around with us to this day?

Anyways, according to the link above, his criteria is as follows:

• "The character must display personality in their game."
• "It's important to have something only that character can do."
• "Potential development issues and game balance is also taken into consideration."
• "Distribution among franchises is also taken into consideration."

K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky, and Funky all fit the bill, so all four of them are fair game according to this criteria.

Nah, recency is definitely a factor, it's like 90% of the reason corrin is in the game. And all the newcomers introduced in smash 4 were characters that were active the prior/current generation except for the obvious exception of duck hunt who is a retro rep.

 

[Garteam]

Even with the revival games, FE's cumulative sales (which is what people care about when criticising FE) isn't anywhere as big as Mario, Pokemon, Zelda or Donkey Kong. Zelda is bigger than Donkey Kong in this regard and BoTW is one of the top 3 Switch games in sales, which is not something that can be said for FE Awakening and Fates in relation to the 3DS.

Zeds has always been an iconic Nintendo franchise since 1986 whereas FE only really got big relatively recently world-wide with Awakening and only had international releases since the early 2000's. For all these reasons, Zelda wouldn't get the same level of criticism as Fire Emblem.

I will admit that Awakening was not as big as BOTW, but you're still missing the overall point I was trying to make: 4 new Zelda characters would not a free pass from the overall Smash fanbase. A lot of people are still fixated on the idea of "spots" as a finite resource and the idea that one character getting in means another is not. Yes, people generally want a new Zelda character, but people also wanted a new Fire Emblem character in Smash 4. They ultimately got what they wanted, but were left disappointed because they felt Fire Emblem's mass inclusion sacrificed a lot of potential diversity in the roster (whether or not it realistically did is debatable, but that still doesn't change that many people felt this way). Repeating what happened last time isn't going to change fan reactions, regardless of whether or not the series in question can justify that many reps, as people will still feel that the roster lacks diversity.

This also doesn't account for a large amount of the Smash fanbase who would feel dissatisfied that only 1/3 of the Zelda characters have a completely new moveset. There's also the large amount of people who want an older Zelda rep (Midna, Skull Kid, Ghirahim, etc.) that would feel dissatisfied with having 4 new Zelda characters solely from Breath of the Wild, which would lead to reactions like "Sakurai is shilling Breath of the Wild" or "Smash feels like its forgotten Zelda before Breath of the Wild".

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

There is this though:

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/13/sakurai-fe25/

Interviewer: In Smash for 3DS/ Wii U, there are far more Fire Emblem characters on the roster than in previous games. How did you go about the selection process for these characters?

Sakurai: It really depends on the situation. For example, Roy and Robin were included for completely different reasons. It also depends on luck, of course. Industry trends around the time when development begins is a pretty big factor. I started development on Smash for 3DS/ Wii U right after I’d wrapped up Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Fire Emblem Awakening was released one month after Uprising. So what’s popular around the time when I begin designing the game is important. Characters are almost never added after I’ve completed the project plan for Smash.

You do know this man goes back and forth on what he says all the time, right? He said he had no interest in doing DLC either, but we got 7 more characters. He said he wouldn't add characters from other fighting games, and we got Ryu. I agree as others before me have stated that this Smash might have to have been handled a little differently. The Wii U bombed, and many of the titles for it failed because of that. There aren't really many success stories to chose from for newcomers. Sakurai and Nintendo may have looked to 3DS, The Ballot, and future titles coming to the Switch for viable characters. You can't tell me that isn't a possibility either because we have situations like Roy and Greninja.

 

[Pacack]

People born when the last mainline DK game with K. Rool came out are currently old enough to vote.

It's not reasonable to expect Nintendo to include a character who's been MIA for 18 years from his own series.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it's like asking for a new F-Zero character at this point.

 

[APC99]

Donkey Kong newcomers discussion?

It's hilarious seeing people mention relevancy as an important factor (used against K. Rool, used in favor of Dixie, Cranky, and Funky) when Sakurai himself didn't even say it's a criteria that has to be met. And honestly it makes sense, Smash is a relevancy maker, it doesn't need to focus on being hip and cool and add the new flavor of the month because it knows it's already hip and cool. Otherwise, why would we have characters like that still stick around with us to this day?

Anyways, according to the link above, his criteria is as follows:

• "The character must display personality in their game."
• "It's important to have something only that character can do."
• "Potential development issues and game balance is also taken into consideration."
• "Distribution among franchises is also taken into consideration."

K. Rool, Dixie, Cranky, and Funky all fit the bill, so all four of them are fair game according to this criteria.

all were added in Smash 64 and were relevant at that time. Their games were still fairly relevant going into Melee, and they chose to keep them going into Brawl / Wii U / 3DS because they were with the franchise since the beginning. They're not cutting the Original 12 any time soon unless they're really strapped for time.

was Sakurai specifically looking back at Nintendo's early catalog of titles and looking at their potential as unique fighters.

were both relevant picks at the time they were added, were cut due to time constraints, and came back in Wii U / 3DS specifically to represent those previous Smash games.

Relevancy doesn't necessarily play a factor in returning veterans. But it sure as hell does in newcomers.

Spoiler: Examples

Brawl Newcomers with a prominent game released during / after Melee's development

Brawl Newcomers solely based on games released BEFORE Melee's development
​

3DS / Wii U Newcomers with a prominent game released during / after Brawl's development


3DS / Wii U Newcomers solely based on games released BEFORE Brawl's development

​

Obviously there's outliers, like third-parties, main cast characters (like Dedede, Meta Knight and Diddy), and aforementioned "retro picks", but to say relevancy is, well, irrelevant, to Smash Bros' character selection is pointless. The character doesn't need to originate from a game released in the time frame, but they'll certainly look towards those games for inspiration, even if the character does use a lot of classic themes (i.e. Wario being mostly WarioWare-themed, Bowser Jr. using the Junior Clown Car, Ryu utilizing his attacks from SFIV).

Again, this isn't saying that older characters have no chance, or that new characters are shoo-ins. This is saying that arguing veterans who are "irrelevant" as proof that a character like K. Rool / Geno / Krystal / etc. has more of a chance is a fallacy, and that a majority of newcomers tend to take inspiration from recent titles, with some obvious exceptions.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

You do know this man goes back and forth on what he says all the time, right? He said he had no interest in doing DLC either, but we got 7 more characters.

He said he wasn't concerned about DLC while he was making the game because he wanted it to be complete. He wasn't claiming that he'd never do it, just that considerations for it would need to take place after considerations for the base game.

 

[Pakky]

People born when the last mainline DK game with K. Rool came out are currently old enough to vote.

It's not reasonable to expect Nintendo to include a character who's been MIA for 18 years from his own series.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it's like asking for a new F-Zero character at this point.

Then why make him and not Dixie or Cranky a costume?

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

He said he wasn't concerned about DLC while he was making the game because he wanted it to be complete. He wasn't claiming that he'd never do it, just that considerations for it would need to take place after considerations for the base game.

I didn’t say he wouldn’t do it. I was just saying he was disinterested in it at the time.

 

[Pazzo.]

People born when the last mainline DK game with K. Rool came out are currently old enough to vote.

It's not reasonable to expect Nintendo to include a character who's been MIA for 18 years from his own series.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but it's like asking for a new F-Zero character at this point.

What about Spin-offs?

Mario Sluggers and that Jungle Swinging came out more recently.

 

[SenSx]

There is this though:

http://sourcegaming.info/2015/12/13/sakurai-fe25/

Interviewer: In Smash for 3DS/ Wii U, there are far more Fire Emblem characters on the roster than in previous games. How did you go about the selection process for these characters?

Sakurai: It really depends on the situation. For example, Roy and Robin were included for completely different reasons. It also depends on luck, of course. Industry trends around the time when development begins is a pretty big factor. I started development on Smash for 3DS/ Wii U right after I’d wrapped up Kid Icarus: Uprising, and Fire Emblem Awakening was released one month after Uprising. So what’s popular around the time when I begin designing the game is important. Characters are almost never added after I’ve completed the project plan for Smash.

He said popular, not necesarry present in recent games.
K.Rool is popular : Bam

He assumed characters in recent game would be popular, well that's not always the case.

K. Rool has iconic weaponry from all his boss battles that he could put to good use, like his blunderbuss from DKC2 (which has many unique features like shooting multi0le types of prohectiles and propelling him around the stage), his hoverpack or other sciencey stuff from DKC3, and of course his crown and cannonballs from DKC1.

Cranky now has his cane pogo abilities from TF. He can use his barrel throwing skills from arcade DK, and posibly even use the items from the Returns games item shop like balloons or Squaks. If they really wanted a stretch, they could bring in the potions he made in DK64.

Funky could use the weaponry from DK64, but he would be more likely to use his staple surfboard for most of his attacks. He could maybe have normals be based around his funky poses and he becomes a water bender kind of character when he uses the board lol.

Dixie, despite being the 3rd most popular of the DK crew, I find the most trouble bringing up something truly unique. She has her hair, but most of her attacks could be replicated by Diddys tail. Dixei does have a hair ground pound and helicopter, but DK does those too with his arms. Maybe she could put animal buddies to good use? Otherwise she could be a composite of DK and Diddy, being a nice middle Kong. If anyone can give me something REALLY good for Dixie that im just not thinking of, please go ahead, because I think she really deserves a shot at Smash Bros.

I would so love K.Rool to be able to shoot projectiles that reverse the opponents controls, like he does in his boss batte, that would be hilarous

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

I'm hoping that All-Star Mode is once again only available by unlocking all characters.

In fact unlocks in general could use some tweaking coming from Smash 4.

A lot of things in the default roster and unlock criteria for characters, stages, etc. just seemed... off.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

I just want to know who some of y'all think are going to be on this game's roster, because if we just go off that small development window after DLC to whenever, there aren't a lot of options.

 

[Tree Gelbman]

It's possible the Geno costume was decided for Geno as a test of interest from people to see if the character could actually make Square Enix money.

If the costume was successful enough, Sakurai could go to Square's office with the results of the sales.

No company is gonna say no to any character that might make them money being in Smash Brothers.

 

[Pacack]

Then why make him and not Dixie or Cranky a costume?

Because K. Rool was shown to have a group of passionate fans and Sakurai wanted to give that group what he could?

Making a character a costume doesn't mean that they immediately are being considered as full fledged characters. It is neither a sufficient nor necessary quality for inclusion. It's an indicator of popularity, not a guarantee of anything else.

What about Spin-offs?

Mario Sluggers and that Jungle Swinging came out more recently.

I'm aware. However, being included in a spinoff game isn't as notable as being included in a main series game.

When there have been multiple entries in a franchise recently and they didn't feature the character, it's important to note.

 

[SenSx]

Because K. Rool was shown to have a group of passionate fans and Sakurai wanted to give that group what he could?

Making a character a costume doesn't mean that they immediately are being considered as full fledged characters. It is neither a sufficient nor necessary quality for inclusion. It's an indicator of popularity, not a guarantee of anything else.

Yes but it at least means the guy is on their radar.
Before that it was as if Sakurai and his team did not even know K.Rool existed (outside the trophy) or was popular.

 

[TheLastJinjo]

If it weren't for the ballot, King K. Rool is not even close to likely.

What about Spin-offs?

Mario Sluggers and that Jungle Swinging came out more recently.

11 years is not recent.

 

[Pacack]

Yes but it at least means the guy is on their radar.
Before that it was as if Sakurai and his team did not even know K.Rool existed (outside the trophy) or was popular.

You're right. It's a great sign for supporters that K. Rool got noticed.

But that doesn't mean he's going to be playable. It could, but when there are candidates like Dixie, Cranky, and Funky Kong to contend with too, it's not reasonable to suggest that he's as likely as some have suggested.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's possible the Geno costume was decided for Geno as a test of interest from people to see if the character could actually make Square Enix money.

If the costume was successful enough, Sakurai could go to Square's office with the results of the sales.

No company is gonna say no to any character that might make them money being in Smash Brothers.

Geno isn't going to make Square Enix money by being in Smash. At least not compared to characters that are either way more bigger than him (like Lara Croft) or characters who have an upcoming game Square Enix would sooner promote for advertisement purposes.

 

[Gameboi834]

Nah, recency is definitely a factor

But definitely not as important as familiarity.

 

[Pacack]

But definitely not as important as familiarity.

K. Rool is not as widely recognized as any of those characters, especially among the more casual nintendo fan.

People have grown into adulthood without ever seeing a game with K. Rool as a villain. The reason recent releases are important is because recent releases build recognizability.

K. Rool was a top dog once, but he isn't anymore.