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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Bowserlick

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Ways for Daisy to Get in

1. A moveset based on the TV Show Gladiators. Daisy sets up an obstacle course of rings and ramps through her moveset in order to gain the momentum advantage.

2. Peach Clone that floats up and down rather than side to side
 

Cosmic77

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I am I the only one who's not fully sold on the idea that we'll get a new Xenoblade character at all? The conversation seems to have turned to "Could we have two Xenoblade reps?" when I'm not entirely sure we'll get even one. I'm seeing a lot of similarities between the treatment of Xenoblade now and DK's treatment in Smash 4 speculation, where everyone assumed the franchise would get a new rep because it had new games between the last Smash and this one.
The main difference between DK and Xenoblade is that DK didn't have any other relevant choices (aside from Cranky) that weren't already playable when Smash 4 began development. With Xenoblade, Sakurai already had an obvious contender for a new rep (Elma).

Frankly, I'd be surprised if we didn't get a new Xenoblade rep, especially since it seems like such an easy and obvious inclusion for a franchise Sakurai is interested in. The bigger question is who that rep will end up being. Elma, Rex/Pyra, or both?
 
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Pacack

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In all fairness, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had been in the works as early as July 2014, a few months before Smash 4 even released.

It's not farfetched to assume Sakurai found out about this and decided to wait until that game's protagonist had a design to create another Greninja situation.
Of course, I don't want to imply that I think the character has no chance.

However, if the choice is between a character whose game had been released before roster finalization or a character whose game had not yet been released, then I see no reason to assume the latter is more likely than the former.

Basically, my perspective is that, based on what we know of Sakurai's previous development habits, we shouldn't be so confident in Rex.

Personally, I predict that both Rex and Spring Man will be DLC following Smash 5's release, while Elma makes base roster. It just makes more sense to me than assuming a Greninja situation is going to happen.

(Especially since Sakurai could not have known anything except XC2's projected release date, meaning no guarantee that the game would release within the Switch's first year.)
 

MasterOfKnees

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I am I the only one who's not fully sold on the idea that we'll get a new Xenoblade character at all? The conversation seems to have turned to "Could we have two Xenoblade reps?" when I'm not entirely sure we'll get even one. I'm seeing a lot of similarities between the treatment of Xenoblade now and DK's treatment in Smash 4 speculation, where everyone assumed the franchise would get a new rep because it had new games between the last Smash and this one.
I could see a scenario where Xenoblade 2 barely missed the train, and knowing that X will be outdated when Smash comes out Sakurai would just choose not to add a character from it for the base game, and instead prioritize other potential newcomers with more fanfare/marketability. I'd still say it's more likely than not that we'll get a Xenoblade newcomer, but I don't think it's outlandish to suggest it may not happen. I think no matter what we'll eventually get a new one though, if we don't get Rex and Pyra in the base game then they'll probably be amongst the first to be DLC given their game's success.
 
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monadoboy

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Elma, Rex/Pyra, or both?
Fiora. I'd say she's as likely as both of those.
Rex relies on Sakurai having prior knowledge about Xenoblade 2. Considering Xenoblade is nowhere near as big as Fire Emblem and Pokemon, that's unlikely. Fiora appeared in a second game after X was released and is tied directly to Shulk.
 

True Blue Warrior

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I could see a scenario where Xenoblade 2 barely missed the train, and knowing that X will be outdated when Smash comes out Sakurai would just choose not to add a character from it for the base game, and instead prioritize other potential newcomers with more fanfare/marketability.
Well, the ballot would already give Sakurai a good idea of characters that the "silent majority" of the fanbase wants.
 
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Roberk

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I wish that people would stop tunnel-visioning the importance of “representation” trumping every other factor. Just because a franchise is or would be “overepped” doesn’t make its potential newcomers any less good.

I believe Elma and Rex would be great additions for a variety of reasons, and I’ve never even touched their franchise. It’s literally impossible for new series’ to catch up with older ones in age, so at that rate it will always be behind “because it’s not as old as the others.” Just because it’s new shouldn’t stop it from getting worthy newcomers.
 

Pacack

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I am I the only one who's not fully sold on the idea that we'll get a new Xenoblade character at all? The conversation seems to have turned to "Could we have two Xenoblade reps?" when I'm not entirely sure we'll get even one. I'm seeing a lot of similarities between the treatment of Xenoblade now and DK's treatment in Smash 4 speculation, where everyone assumed the franchise would get a new rep because it had new games between the last Smash and this one.
That's a fair point, but I believe the situation is more similar to Fire Emblem's post Melee than it is to DK post Brawl.

Sakurai has shown a sort of benevolence to the series already, as Shulk was included despite coming from a relatively niche (albeit cult-classic) game. This is similar to how Sakurai included Marth in Melee despite him being Japan-exclusive.

Then, in Brawl, the Fire Emblem series got another newcomer because the games released since Marth's inclusion were well-received. Similarly, I expect a Xenoblade newcomer because the series has gathered a following.

That said, I don't personally see us getting two Xenoblade characters until DLC comes around. When the roster was finalized, the Xenoblade series did find new success in Xenoblade Chronicles 3DS and X, but it wasn't overwhelming success like was seen with Xenoblade Chronicles 2. If we don't get Elma in the base game, it will be because of the only moderate success of Xenoblade Chronicles X. Then, there's still a solid chance that the successful Xenoblade Chronicles 2 would convince Sakurai to include a character from the game as DLC.

At least, that's how I see it.
 

Cosmic77

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So, about that Ridley and Simon Belmont leak, this was posted on reddit over a week ago
https://www.reddit.com/user/Lucerpa...ey_simon_belmont_ice_climbers_no_roster_cuts/
This being way before Vergeben talked about it, is quite odd.
Funny how it mentions the exact same key points in Vergeben's leak without mentioning anything else.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that this does very little to validate the authenticity of the Vergeben leak. For all I know, it could be someone who knows (or is) Vergeben's source(s).
 

SvartWolf

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Xenoblade Chronicles x is the only one I've played and actually liked it a lot, but I wouldn't mind if it's represented through an amazing stage, trophies and lots of tracks rather than Elma. Wouldn't mind if she comes in, but imo characters weren't the strong suit of XbcX, the setting, world and mechas were.

Now... Should I wait to play the xbc1 to play xbc2? And should I wait for Nintendo to release the first game on the switch? I'm totally not buying it for the wiiu
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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So, about that Ridley and Simon Belmont leak, this was posted on reddit over a week ago
https://www.reddit.com/user/Lucerpa...ey_simon_belmont_ice_climbers_no_roster_cuts/
This being way before Vergeben talked about it, is quite odd.
So I'm not familiar enough with Reddit to understand this...where exactlly was this posted? I'm confused on where and why but it does have the 8 day timestamp.

It could validate the Vergeben leak, but what worriese more is that apparently Vergeben also has a track record of piggybacking/copying/editing etc. For example he wasn't the first to leak the Meteoid 4 x Bandai Namco, and said it about a day later. I'm worried he might have just seen this and posted it as his own source....

More details on this would help, but is this all it is??? Very confused lol
 

Pakky

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True, but that’s not what I’m saying, the fact that this seemingly random guy on reddit posted about the exact same thing Vergeben said, a week before, is what interests me here.
Belmont over Bomber man is weird. Believable but weird.
 

Pacack

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Xenoblade Chronicles x is the only one I've played and actually liked it a lot, but I wouldn't mind if it's represented through an amazing stage, trophies and lots of tracks rather than Elma. Wouldn't mind if she comes in, but imo characters weren't the strong suit of XbcX, the setting, world and mechas were.

Now... Should I wait to play the xbc1 to play xbc2? And should I wait for Nintendo to release the first game on the switch? I'm totally not buying it for the wiiu
I personally think 1 is better than 2, but it's not super important that you play them in order.

That said, the endgame of 2 does involve something that could be considered a major spoiler for 1. So take that into consideration.

If you have a new 3DS, then XC3D is arguably the best way to play the game. I'd recommend that if you have one.

So I'm not familiar enough with Reddit to understand this...where exactlly was this posted? I'm confused on where and why but it does have the 8 day timestamp.

It could validate the Vergeben leak, but what worriese more is that apparently Vergeben also has a track record of piggybacking/copying/editing etc. For example he wasn't the first to leak the Meteoid 4 x Bandai Namco, and said it about a day later. I'm worried he might have just seen this and posted it as his own source....

More details on this would help, but is this all it is??? Very confused lol
He posted it on his userpage, of all things. He also posted there saying that retro was working on a Diddy Kong Racing/F-Zero esque game. Take that as you will.
 
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Cosmic77

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He posted it on his userpage, of all things. He also posted there saying that retro was working on a Diddy Kong Racing/F-Zero esque game. Take that as you will.
Sounds like piggybacking TBH. According to Gamexplain, the Star Fox Grand Prix rumor lines up with certain things they've been hearing in past weeks. That tells me that those involved in the press had an inkling that some type of futuristic Diddy Kong racing game was being made long before the leaks were shown to us.
 

Fenriraga

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Belmont over Bomber man is weird. Believable but weird.
Honestly, I don't see what's so weird about it. Castlevania is still popular, and is Konami's flagship platformer, and Smash is a Platform Fighter. That's kinda like saying it's weird that Ryu didn't get in before Mega Man.
 

Tree Gelbman

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I just realized something.

Wasn't there a leak that said Bayonetta was going to be revealed at E3?

Think about Simon Belmont.

Think about Bayonetta.

They make perfect reveal partners in a way.
 

Yoshi-Thomas

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I just want Snake back, please.
Oh damn I should go change my bingo card with Simon instead of Bomberman!

I just realized something.

Wasn't there a leak that said Bayonetta was going to be revealed at E3?

Think about Simon Belmont.

Think about Bayonetta.

They make perfect reveal partners in a way.
The leak said that Bayonetta, Duck Hunt and (I'm not sure for this one) Shulk were in the game.
Not that they would directly be revealed.
 
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CrusherMania1592

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So if Ice Climbers and Wolf return, what are the possibilities that either of them could have a few moves tweaked?
 

Pazzo.

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Someone (I heard it through the grapevine *wink* *wink*) said that Smash 5 is a new game... not a port, and they were backed up by the Nintendo Invester's meeting.

Is this true?
 

Tree Gelbman

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I just want Snake back, please.
Oh damn I should go change my bingo card with Simon instead of Bomberman!



The leak said that Bayonetta, Duck Hunt and (I'm not sure for this one) Shulk were in the game.
Not that they would directly be revealed.
Actually it said the Smash Booth had iconic weapons and imagery props and Bayonetta's guns, the Monado and what not were there.

Simon has a very iconic whip.

Bayonetta and his series share a lot of dark but silly themes.

Both leaks combine together well and come from reliable sources.

Hmm.
 

Wyoming

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So if Ice Climbers and Wolf return, what are the possibilities that either of them could have a few moves tweaked?
Ice Climbers not so much. There isn't any source material to really change them up. The removal of chain grabs will make them interesting but I imagine they'll remove wobbling.

Wolf could get a few tweaks that change the hitboxes/animations I feel, and hopefully a Hunter final smash.
 

Pakky

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Honestly, I don't see what's so weird about it. Castlevania is still popular, and is Konami's flagship platformer, and Smash is a Platform Fighter. That's kinda like saying it's weird that Ryu didn't get in before Mega Man.
I'm not against him, I just thought it was weird due to Bomberman being on the Switch and Castlevaina is not currently (to my knowledge) .
 
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MasterOfKnees

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So, about that Ridley and Simon Belmont leak, this was posted on reddit over a week ago
https://www.reddit.com/user/Lucerpa...ey_simon_belmont_ice_climbers_no_roster_cuts/
This being way before Vergeben talked about it, is quite odd.
The guy just deleted his account this very minute while I was browsing his profile, but luckily I grabbed a screencap. Doesn't seem like he was too happy that people caught wind of it.



EDIT: I forgot to blank out my name above the comment section in the picture, but I guess it's not really a huge secret that I use the same name on Reddit as on here.
 
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92MilesPrower

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I'm not against him, I just thought it was weird due to Bomberman being on the Switch and Castlevaina is not currently (to my knowledge) .
For all we know, a new Castlevania game could be confirmed to be coming to the Switch at e3, only for Simon to be revealed later in the direct or at the invitational. Either way, just because Bomberman had a recent game on the Switch doesn't mean that he's more likely to be in Smash than Simon, both have an equal chance in my eyes. Regardless though, I'm taking this "leak" with a truckload of salt like I have been with most "leaks" because of a lack of real evidence, matching up with other "leaks" that barely have any proof backing them up doesn't give it any more credibility.
 

Imadethistoseealeak

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The guy just deleted his account this very minute while I was browsing his profile, but luckily I grabbed a screencap. Doesn't seem like he was too happy that people caught wind of it.

I did the same XD

I don't know there's something weird about it...normally this would make it seem more credible but it just feels weird.
 

Nekoo

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And me I'll be happy with any character that get into the game because I have no problem of "Representation" as long as the game keep being fun, and that the roster only get bigger and we get a few surprise.

What do you mean? I'm a simple man.
 

Sigran101

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Uh, no. Every version of Link is a composite character design who uses the most iconic of moves. Young Link can't do the Downthrust or Upthrust either. It's clearly not just a pure representation of one game or another.


Other than being his most defining trait and literally the most important part of the character called Ganon(who is the same person as Ganondorf), being the wielder of Triforce of Power, you mean?


Ganondorf did not use a Sword or Trident in OOT, the first game. If that's the only one to go off of? No, he would have no weapon. It'd be irrelevant. He also has never used a Trident in any canon game. That's explicitly Moblin Ganon's weapon. HW is irrelevant in that. Hell, Moblin Ganon used Swords first. This isn't even counting the fact that Ganondorf is still using magic here. It's just physical magic. Something that is an actual thing. The lack of a projectile is jarring, agreed, but by the time it could've been implemented in Brawl, tons of Zelda characters already used it, even ones not remotely related to Ganon or Ganondorf in someway. It became just a really interesting move to use, not a signature move for Ganondorf. Ganondorf actually lacks any real signature moves.

Funky and Dark Samus aren't in the same boat. Funky does not share any remote potential animations and has a very different body frame and style. Ganondorf does not look awkward with Falcon's animations in comparison. It still fits his actual character really well. Dark Samus could be that, but we've seen the character in Smash already using different moves. Ganondorf also has shown the compete capability to do the things he does in Smash. None of it comes off as weird for him to channel his triforce and magic into more physical attacks. Again, there is no questioning his trait is POWER. It's who he is. If he isn't showing that off, it's really inaccurate to him. He's a power character through and through in the Zelda series. Unofficial games aside.


So then he wouldn't be in the game at all otherwise. Still fits him as he doesn't actually have different abilities than Pit whatsoever. And he still separates himself in Smash by using different weapons(bar the Orbitars). So he's acting extremely accurate. The issue is that he's not interesting to play as because you can't formulate a new strategy with him, unlike the other clones. It has nothing to do with the fact he's actually severely accurate to Uprising.
Argue all you want that Ganondorf made sense as a clone practically, but saying it fits with his character is just silly. I think deep down you know that. So what if he looks like he's punching link in a piece of promotional art? That's no excuse to make his entire moveset around it. Ganondorf has one punch/shockwave move. That doesn't excuse being based on falcon either. It's like you're pretending that if he was an original character he'd be punching and kicking anyway because he's based on power. You know what his best powers are? Sword fighting and magic. Power does not mean boxing. He is a powerful sword fighter and uses powerful spells. I never thought I'd see the day someone would argue that falcondorf makes sense for his character.
 

SlickWylde

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I'll be happy if I can get at least 1 of my wanted characters cause I didn't get a single one in smash 4 lol
Try liking better characters! Totally kidding!! :)

That is too bad, I hope you get one too!

It's hard when so many people want so many characters, I don't envy Sakurai.
 

Guybrush20X6

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So if Ice Climbers and Wolf return, what are the possibilities that either of them could have a few moves tweaked?
Rather high if they want to kill chain-grabs without tanking the ICs.
 
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