Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MBRedboy31]

My main issue with eevee is I just can’t see him having a particularly unique or interesting moveset without involving his evolutions which would be

A) involving transformations which Sakurai culled before smash 4
B) involve de-evolution which flies in the face of the conventions of the main games

I’m not doubting eevee’s status as one of the series more recognisable faces but I could honestly name 100 Pokémon who would make a more interesting fighter then eevee.

Probably the most realistic way for Eevee to work without either of those is for it to be a summoner; like, have its moveset be based around assists kinda like in some other fighting games (or like Duck Hunt’s Wild Gunmen,) which would be balanced out by it having poor range and light weight. Maybe there would be a queue of the other Eeveelutions, and so the one that’s next in line would significantly change what a few certain attacks (like most of its specials and maybe also its smash attacks) do, and maybe each one would have a cool down if the assist attacks are too strong. Maybe there would be a way to make the summon wait longer before attacking, such as by repeatedly pressing the special input, which would allow for a lot of interesting setups.

Edit: It being a summoner wasn’t originally my idea, I added some of my ideas too though, just had to say that.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

My main issue with eevee is I just can’t see him having a particularly unique or interesting moveset without involving his evolutions which would be

A) involving transformations which Sakurai culled before smash 4
B) involve de-evolution which flies in the face of the conventions of the main games

I’m not doubting eevee’s status as one of the series more recognisable faces but I could honestly name 100 Pokémon who would make a more interesting fighter then eevee.

This, Eevee on it's own, while popular, doesn't bring a whole lot to the table and the evolutions would both go against canon and would require implementing 4 different movesets which I'm assuming wouldn't really be feasible

also being bipedal really doesn't help

 

[zauberdragon]

Probably the most realistic way for Eevee to work without either of those is for it to be a summoner; like, have its moveset be based around assists kinda like in some other fighting games (or like Duck Hunt’s Wild Gunmen,) which would be balanced out by it having poor range and light weight. Maybe there would be a queue of the other Eeveelutions, and so the one that’s next in line would significantly change what a few certain attacks (like most of its specials and maybe also its smash attacks) do, and maybe each one would have a cool down if the assist attacks are too strong. Maybe there would be a way to make the summon wait longer before attacking, such as by repeatedly pressing the special input, which would allow for a lot of interesting setups.

Hasn’t thought of that. Perhaps even an olimar like scenario where the Pokémon are on a predetermined rotation.

It’d also be a way to cram many Pokémon into one moveset. Like the mii costumes of smash 4, ‘see, jolteon is in the game now! Like Geno was!’

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Probably the most realistic way for Eevee to work without either of those is for it to be a summoner; like, have its moveset be based around assists kinda like in some other fighting games (or like Duck Hunt’s Wild Gunmen,) which would be balanced out by it having poor range and light weight. Maybe there would be a queue of the other Eeveelutions, and so the one that’s next in line would significantly change what a few certain attacks (like most of its specials and maybe also its smash attacks) do, and maybe each one would have a cool down if the assist attacks are too strong. Maybe there would be a way to make the summon wait longer before attacking, such as by repeatedly pressing the special input, which would allow for a lot of interesting setups.

The summoning that people keep mentioning would be horribly janky. You can have that for a couple moves, but not the principle basis for a moveset. At least with a stand-based character it's just one thing be summoned, but here it's like seven, just popping in and out of existence for no particular reason.
Visually assists also work much better in a normal fighter due to the fact that there's a fairly fixed "offscreen" distance.
There are two options for Eevee:
It can evolve once and stays that way for the stock
Serious creative licence is taken and it can transform/"channel eeveelutions" more freely

I think the first can be an interesting basis for the design but a lot of people would hate it. The second would suffer from "main character doing every kind of thing at once" syndrome, which Smash already suffers from far more than the average fighter because it's made mostly of main characters.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Probably the most realistic way for Eevee to work without either of those is for it to be a summoner; like, have its moveset be based around assists kinda like in some other fighting games (or like Duck Hunt’s Wild Gunmen,) which would be balanced out by it having poor range and light weight. Maybe there would be a queue of the other Eeveelutions, and so the one that’s next in line would significantly change what a few certain attacks (like most of its specials and maybe also its smash attacks) do, and maybe each one would have a cool down if the assist attacks are too strong. Maybe there would be a way to make the summon wait longer before attacking, such as by repeatedly pressing the special input, which would allow for a lot of interesting setups.

Edit: It being a summoner wasn’t originally my idea, I added some of my ideas too though, just had to say that.

The summoner concept really is a terrible idea imo, eevee isn't a summoner, it's gimmick is evolving and I really don't see how they can be added to smash without including that, otherwise it just misrepresents the character

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Unless you assume that literally all of those characters you listed are getting in, that's not nearly enough to make a roster of newcomers out of, even if you throw in a few ballot characters (Heck, quite a few popular ballot characters are already on that list).

And as far the ballot goes, 1.8 million votes is pretty small when you compare that to the actual sales of Smash 3DS/Wii U. The ballot gives us a vivid idea of what the Smash fanbase wants, but I don't think the general audience (especially those who didn't pick up a Nintendo console until the Switch) would share that same excitement.

(plus several more characters).

Even disregarding all the existing characters that already appeals to the general Nintendo gaming audience, the Inklings alone invalidate that concern.

 

[Curious Villager]

I guess you could make a summoner archetype work for Eevee and It's Eeveelutions if they reimplemented Pokemon Trainer for this. We kind of talked about that over at the Pokemon Trainer support thread.

But other than that, the most I can see the Eeveelutions working for Eevee is in it's Final Smash if It's on its own.

 

[Luminario]

My main issue with eevee is I just can’t see him having a particularly unique or interesting moveset without involving his evolutions which would be

A) involving transformations which Sakurai culled before smash 4
B) involve de-evolution which flies in the face of the conventions of the main games

I’m not doubting eevee’s status as one of the series more recognisable faces but I could honestly name 100 Pokémon who would make a more interesting fighter then eevee.

The easiest way around this is involving Extreme Evoboost or Baton Pass to get the Eeveelutions into the picture. You can't have Eevee without its evolutions, as they're the entire reason for it's prominence in the series today. This is why I think it should be paired up with a revamped Pokemon Trainer who's actually on the battlefield to anchor it all together and give them a consistent hurtbox if Eevee switches out for other Eeveelutions on the go.

 

[Pakky]

Eevee could just get a new evo that's a biped.

Maybe a fighting type or a normal type, they don't all HAVE to be quadrupeds.

 

[MBRedboy31]

The summoning that people keep mentioning would be horribly janky. You can have that for a couple moves, but not the principle basis for a moveset. At least with a stand-based character it's just one thing be summoned, but here it's like seven, just popping in and out of existence for no particular reason.
Visually assists also work much better in a normal fighter due to the fact that there's a fairly fixed "offscreen" distance.

About them appearing in and out of existence, one thing of note is that, already, in Smash, Pokeball summons (and Assist Trophies) pop out of existence for no reason. They don’t jump offscreen for the most part; they just vanish.

The summoner concept really is a terrible idea imo, eevee isn't a summoner, it's gimmick is evolving and I really don't see how they can be added to smash without including that, otherwise it just misrepresents the character

Unless you’re running an Extreme Evoboost Eevee... in which case summoning the others is the only notable thing it does (before Baton Pass-ing the stats away.)

Anyway, though, there’s no way to know if this sort of moveset really would work or not, as I don’t think there’s precedent in any platform fighter or fangame that I know of... hopefully somebody tries this sort of moveset even if just for experimental purposes, since I’m curious about if it really would functionally work or not.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Eevee could just get a new evo that's a biped.

Maybe a fighting type or a normal type, they don't all HAVE to be quadrupeds.

I'm still waiting on that dragon type gen 6 should've given us

 

[viewtifulduck82]

People put too much stock in "well maybe sakurai knew about this in development". That is the exception to the rule, not the norm. It makes little sense to assume that the favor of looking into the future is being done for a character.

It is far more likely for him to be presented with info, than for him to go looking for it.
It makes sense in some circumstances like pokemon or a new property nintendo is really trying to push, but not just because it would be nice to be current.

Smash is usually about a gen behind when it comes to inclusions, unless its something that doesnt take a ton of effort to add in.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

A few things to catch up on:

1) If we take the "test of time" comment from Sakurai into consideration, and he looks at games that are out or will be coming out, I think it actually makes a pretty good case for Rex & Pyra. If he looks at what will be popular or more of a focus around the time of release, then that alone make Rex & Pyra a fairly good bet in terms of Xenoblade. That isn't necessarily to say Elma wouldn't have a chance but...I don't know.

If you're Sakurai, and you consider futures and characters quite a bit, would you pick a character who would be 3 years old by the time of release? Or a character/duo that will be far more relevant to the Switch/releases by the time the game is out? To me, the latter makes sense. No offense to Elma fans, I'm sure she'd be great regardless.

XC2 DID start development in 2015, I might add. That's at least a year before Smash Switch started.

2) That all said, I can see how ARMS would be too far ahead.

3) So we're suggesting an Eevee playable fighter that...summons Eevee forms...which would require the system/game to load 7 other models with the playable one...and then there's 8 player Smash. 8 Eevee and then 7 other Pokemon with them...that's 56 additional character models.

Then that's assuming Game Freak would be ok with that interpretation of the character.

Eh...I'm not too sure about that one. Creative, but sounds like more work than should be spent.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

Eevee could just get a new evo that's a biped.

Maybe a fighting type or a normal type, they don't all HAVE to be quadrupeds.

This is actually a good idea for a dlc character based on the new game. Eevee is likely to get a new evolution with a game surrounding it (I was already predicting a new eeveeloution since Eevee is a primary Pokemon in the next movie).

This new evolution (bipedal or not) would have the backing of a new game and a new Pokemon movie, which has generally been important in the past.

Alright, this is my new prediction. No playable Eevee but a playable new eeveeloution as dlc.

 

[Pakky]

(I was already predicting a new eeveeloution since Eevee is a primary Pokemon in the next movie).

Forgot about the little fuzzy baby in the movie, thank you.

 

[papagenos]

Eevee itself is fairly weak with very limited and not particularly effective special moves takedown, headbutt etc... but has an "exp" meter, this racks up with damage or something like cloud/little macs meters.

when this meter is full neutral special, down special, up special, and side special will evolve it into a different eeveelution (vaporeon, jolteon, flareon, sylveon? i dunno but 4 would have to be left out or just part of its final smash or something). OR only neutral special randomly evolves Eevee into one of its many eeveelutions. the evolved eevee now has special moves based on the "typing" of the eeveelution you have and is much more poweful.

you then play as that eeveelution until eevee has a stock taken and returns the next stock as eevee with 0% exp in its meter. no de-evolving, its more like luma where its just a brand new Eevee each stock.

This is of course just my own idea but basically its not impossible to add eevee and for that matter make eevee a very interesting character and not deviate from what eevee is all about.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I have to say, I'm starting to feel Greninja's case may be becoming a bit of a pitfall for us. We're so quick to say 'oh, well Greninja was added early, why can't character x?' that we neglect to consider why Greninja was done in that way, what circumstances were around that character, and why he's been one such exception in Smash's history. We can't just take away certain parts that made his inclusion possible, there are multiple factors that added up to that inclusion and his complete situation may not be similar to what characters like Rex/Pyra and Spring Man's situations are. Additionally those characters' respective franchises could be approached in different ways then what Greninja's franchise was back with Smash 4, so there's no guarantee that Sakurai's going in with the mindset of filling a slot like he did. In short, while they may share the timing, they may not share the process or conclusion, and we have to consider that when assessing why they may or may not be in.

That's not to say that Rex/Pyra and Spring Man are doomed, there could be a difference in their approach and development that allows for their inclusion, but I feel relying on Greninja consistently to write off that potential barrier is causing us to overlook the full picture. There are other characters that did come too late to get included (ex. Olimar in Melee), they could be one additional example of that just like they could be another Greninja.

You basically summed up my viewpoint in regard to people using Greninja in favour of Rex and Spring Man.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

About them appearing in and out of existence, one thing of note is that, already, in Smash, Pokeball summons (and Assist Trophies) pop out of existence for no reason. They don’t jump offscreen for the most part; they just vanish.

Are you being obtuse? There's a huge difference between some animation ending in a poof from a summoning item and having a central element of a character's moveset be an ontological revolving door of Pokemon. Just imagine a combo being done with this version Eevee, feasibly having several different eeveelutions that summon and poof in a single, brief sequence. It's just cluttered.
If you're having a hard time, you know how Game and Watch can look a little funny with all of his props? That, but they're 3D, larger than him, and fully-rigged, separately-moving creatures. GW being flat and monochrome helps him get away with it and his animation style makes you expect clunkiness. In Eevee's case, being a summoner necessitates also being a mess.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Eevee being quadrapedal won't matter. It can just hold weapons with its mouth or put it on its back. It doesn't need to be beyond realistic.

However, it is not workable with the eeveelutions either. There's no way to feasibley put 7 different ones in(and more if the new Pokemon games we have info on add another) as a summoner. They won't work easily as costume variations due to what I said above. One idea, inspired by Digimon ironically, I could see as some of its moves shows a shadow of the Pokemon's design when using it. This might work while showing off all of them. But only for some moves. The core moveset has to flow well and not be awkward.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

More time spent on any kind of newcomers? Good.

More time spent on unnecessary veterans? Not so good.

That's the entire point of the post.

''Heavy hitting" is subjective anyways.

Especially in a fanbase that has had difficulties understanding why people like Pac Man, Ryu, and Cloud are big deals, but turn around and get why Mega Man is for some reason.

Not to even touch that we've had the Lara Croft discussion seventy billion times now and still to this day people still don't understand she's the most iconic female video game character for some reason.

It just goes to show while Lara Croft is heavy hitting to some?

Some anime chick from an uprising Nintendo franchise is heavy hitting?

And to others? Both are.

I seriously doubt creating Pichu and Young Link will take up the amount of time it takes to create one newcomer. And you contradicted yourself in your own post. If one character is a heavy hitter to someone but the complete opposite for someone else, than I suppose Pichu and Young Link are heavy hitter characters to return for some. Me saying that will probably bring about the "Well those who want Pichu and Young Link back are an extreme minority!" Well to that I say those who don't see Ridley and Lara Croft as heavy hitters would probably be on the minority side of the fanbase as well.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

One idea, inspired by Digimon ironically, I could see as some of its moves shows a shadow of the Pokemon's design when using it. This might work while showing off all of them. But only for some moves. The core moveset has to flow well and not be awkward.

I somewhat agree (this is mainly what I was referring to with "channeling" in an earlier post), but it has some difficulties. For example, Vaporeon, Jolteon and Sylveon all have things they can and probably would do using unique traits with their anatomies. Having Umbreon appear behind Eevee to help it cast Shadow Ball is one thing. Having Vaporeon's tail projected over Eevee's for Aqua Tail or Jolteon's mane for Pin Missile or whatever you might do with Sylveon makes them go from pseudo-metaphorical images to outright stands. At that point I think it would be just a more awkward version of an actively transforming character like Twelve or Double.
Of all the options mentioned here, I think it's the best one that isn't permanent-evolution-per-stock (not that Sakurai would do that), but all of them are still clunky at best.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

People put too much stock in "well maybe sakurai knew about this in development". That is the exception to the rule, not the norm. It makes little sense to assume that the favor of looking into the future is being done for a character.

It is far more likely for him to be presented with info, than for him to go looking for it.
It makes sense in some circumstances like pokemon or a new property nintendo is really trying to push, but not just because it would be nice to be current.

Smash is usually about a gen behind when it comes to inclusions, unless its something that doesnt take a ton if effort to add in.

Sakurai is very likely informed about upcoming games, that doesn't necessarily mean he's going to design movesets for and implement characters that don't have released games yet, characters who's games could even get delayed, change drastically mid development or even possibly be cancelled altogether. When sakurai added Robin he did so after playing Awakening, that tells me that he likes to play a characters game before creating a moveset for them, you obviously can't do that with games not out, maybe he wouldn't want to create newcomers based on concept art alone and Greninja was an exception due to Pokemon's rotating cast and fairly consistent release schedule.

 

[Murlough]

Duck hunt uses his mouth to hold small items and there a a number of ways to have a quadrupedal character hold a larger item without it looking too awkward. Even if it does look kinda awkward there are plenty of awkward animations in Smash 4. Have you seen Ryu's neck?

Being bipedal is a small obstacle at best. Can we stop this whole "being quadrupedal is a death sentence" thing? It's just kinda odd.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

A part of me do have to wonder how much Switch games will factor into the newcomer roster if the Inklings seems to be largely derived from their 2015 game rather than their Switch sequel (fun fact: development of Splatoon 2 started in 2015). I may be reading too much into it, but I still think this point is somewhat worth mentioning, even if it isn't that important.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I somewhat agree (this is mainly what I was referring to with "channeling" in an earlier post), but it has some difficulties. For example, Vaporeon, Jolteon and Sylveon all have things they can and probably would do using unique traits with their anatomies. Having Umbreon appear behind Eevee to help it cast Shadow Ball is one thing. Having Vaporeon's tail projected over Eevee's for Aqua Tail or Jolteon's mane for Pin Missile or whatever you might do with Sylveon makes them go from pseudo-metaphorical images to outright stands. At that point I think it would be just a more awkward version of an actively transforming character like Twelve or Double.
Of all the options mentioned here, I think it's the best one that isn't permanent-evolution-per-stock (not that Sakurai would do that), but all of them are still clunky at best.

I meant more using the attacks while the "spirit" of the Pokemon shows. But that's true. They could simply only choose plausible attacks.

Either way, it doesn't sound like it could work feasibly without a bit more work than they want to do. It'd be fun, though.

I seriously doubt creating Pichu and Young Link will take up the amount of time it takes to create one newcomer. And you contradicted yourself in your own post. If one character is a heavy hitter to someone but the complete opposite for someone else, than I suppose Pichu and Young Link are heavy hitter characters to return for some. Me saying that will probably bring about the "Well those who want Pichu and Young Link back are an extreme minority!" Well to that I say those who don't see Ridley and Lara Croft as heavy hitters would probably be on the minority side of the fanbase as well.

It depends; if Young Link is going to be the Masked Link idea, then yeah, it'd a newcomer when it comes to development. Pichu depends upon how he would plan to make him more interesting. This sounds a bit easier, but the data is old, so he'd have to redo it from scratch using Pikachu's model. This would be more like how Roy was, which he was revamped. So it'd take a bit longer. Neither would be really fast to make, but they wouldn't take along depending exactly how he would update them.

 

[Murlough]

the Inklings seems to be largely derived from their 2015 game rather than their Switch sequel

How do you figure that? We've seen nothing but a short trailer. I'm not a Splatoon player so did I miss something?

 

[Curious Villager]

Duck hunt uses his mouth to hold small items and there a a number of ways to have a bipedal character hold a larger item without it looking too awkward. Even if it does look kinda awkward there are plenty of awkward animations in Smash 4. Have you seen Ryu's neck?

Being bipedal is a small obstacle at best. Can we stop this whole "being bipedal is a death sentence" thing? It's just kinda odd.

I think you mean Quadruped. Bipedal are the likes of Lucario and Mewtwo. And I agree.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How do you figure that? We've seen nothing but a short trailer. I'm not a Splatoon player so did I miss something?

The only thing we saw is that the trailer re-used the design of the original Splatoon 1 trailer. That's literally it. We don't know jack-all of how they're designed or how they play, so it's not a very useful observation.

Using the original Splatoon 1 trailer is just a fun thing to do, but that's... all it does.

 

[Deleted member]

...um, guys?

"Bipedal" means they walk on two legs.
"Quadruped" means they walk on four.

Bi = Two
Quad = Four

Stop making that mistake that shouldn't even be possible. :V

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Duck hunt uses his mouth to hold small items and there a a number of ways to have a bipedal character hold a larger item without it looking too awkward. Even if it does look kinda awkward there are plenty of awkward animations in Smash 4. Have you seen Ryu's neck?

Being bipedal is a small obstacle at best. Can we stop this whole "being bipedal is a death sentence" thing? It's just kinda odd.

Maybe I'm misremembering but doesn't the dog just stand upright when using larger items? eevee doing that would be weird looking af

 

[Murlough]

Maybe I'm misremembering but doesn't the dog just stand upright when using larger items? eevee doing that would be weird looking af

I'm not specifically talking about Eevee. I'm just making a general statement. I don't see Eevee being a character although I'm in love with the concept of using it's Z-move as an excuse to have its evolutions in its move-set.

I looked up a trailer before making my post to be sure and yes he does use his hands for larger items like crates. That's why I specified that he used his mouth for smaller items. My point still stands that awkward animations are no stranger for Smash.

...um, guys?

"Bipedal" means they walk on two legs.
"Quadruped" means they walk on four.

Bi = Two
Quad = Four

Stop making that mistake that shouldn't even be possible. :V

I'm tired leave me alone. ;-;

 

[MopedOfJustice]

It just occurred to me that, instead of this mess with Eevee, they could just pick one of the Eeveelutions. That way, they'd have a character that actually gives them something to work with. Assuming there's not a new one that gets prioritized for that reason, I think the best choice for that is Vaporeon, being that it both has anatomical features and mechanics (e.g. Acid Armor) that can do something new. Granted, we already have Greninja as a water type, but his design is much more focused on being a ninja frog than using water beyond his grab and up special.
Most of the other evolutions are either more redundant with the cast or don't have much going for them to begin with. The exception is Leafeon, since grass in under-represented and you could probably do something fun with the foliage.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

It just occurred to me that, instead of this mess with Eevee, they could just pick one of the Eeveelutions. That way, they'd have a character that actually gives them something to work with. Assuming there's not a new one that gets prioritized for that reason, I think the best choice for that is Vaporeon, being that it both has anatomical features and mechanics (e.g. Acid Armor) that can do something new. Granted, we already have Greninja as a water type, but his design is much more focused on being a ninja frog than using water beyond his grab and up special.
Most of the other evolutions are either more redundant with the cast or don't have much going for them to begin with. The exception is Leafeon, since grass in under-represented and you could probably do something fun with the foliage.

Would argue that Sylveon has a lot to offer too, especially since you can make the same argument about Greninja for Jigglypuff. (And everyone is going to argue that their favorite has potential as well lol)

However only have one eeveeloution is more likely if it's a new one that is in the switch game (as dlc too).

 

[Zinith]

Would argue that Sylveon has a lot to offer too, especially since you can make the same argument about Greninja for Jigglypuff. (And everyone is going to argue that their favorite has potential as well lol)

However only have one eeveeloution is more likely if it's a new one that is in the switch game (as dlc too).

They'd probably go for the one that has the most popularity among furries. I'm only half-joking.

So Umbreon or Sylveon maybe...

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

It just occurred to me that, instead of this mess with Eevee, they could just pick one of the Eeveelutions. That way, they'd have a character that actually gives them something to work with. Assuming there's not a new one that gets prioritized for that reason, I think the best choice for that is Vaporeon, being that it both has anatomical features and mechanics (e.g. Acid Armor) that can do something new. Granted, we already have Greninja as a water type, but his design is much more focused on being a ninja frog than using water beyond his grab and up special.
Most of the other evolutions are either more redundant with the cast or don't have much going for them to begin with. The exception is Leafeon, since grass in under-represented and you could probably do something fun with the foliage.

We're assuming eevee would be added because of this new game tho, adding one of it's evos probably isn't the best way to represent said game. And then there's a problem with which one to add, if they don't want to add already represented types that rules out vaperon, flareon, jolteon, sylveon and espeon which are pretty much the most popular of them anyway. Umbreon could be an interesting choice tho, that'd be neat and it's pretty popular from what I know.

 

[Murlough]

I actually wouldn't be upset at all if Leafeon gets announced but Mimikyu doesn't.

Even though it's the least popular eeveelution by a mile.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

We're assuming eevee would be added because of this new game tho, adding one of it's evos probably isn't the best way to represent said game. And then there's a problem with which one to add, if they don't want to add already represented types that rules out vaperon, flareon, jolteon, sylveon and espeon which are pretty much the most popular of them anyway. Umbreon could be an interesting choice tho, that'd be neat and it's pretty popular from what I know.

Greninja is dark type too
Yea if we consider eeveeloutions we kinda need to through a 1 type representation out the window. I never thought it was a hard rule for Sakurai anyway.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I actually wouldn't be upset at all if Leafeon gets announced but Mimikyu doesn't.

Even though it's the least popular eeveelution by a mile.

Sadly, design wise it's actually my favourite of the evolutions along with umbreon and espeon (too bad it sucks tho lol)

Greninja is dark type too
Yea if we consider eeveeloutions we kinda need to through a 1 type representation out the window. I never thought it was a hard rule for Sakurai anyway.

That's not it's main type tho, greninja has like 2 dark moves lol

 

[Roberk]

I will say on the subject of Eevee being playable; its not like eevee is a new character or hasnt been in the spot light for years, i mean go out to any store selling pokemon stuff and every hat,back pack, plushie etc... will generally have a version that features eevee and its evolutions. eevee is HEAVILY featured nearly as much as pikachu these days in pokemon product material. actually shocked its taken this long to give Eevee the kind of prominence the pokemon has everywhere else in a main series game (if the rumors are true of course). So I don't think it'd be crazy for sakurai a few years back to be told by gamefreaks that Eevee sells well and they plan on promoting the pokemon heavily in the future and thats who they want sakurai to use. I mean maybe not, but its not unlikely at all, gamefreaks knows where they are headed with the pokemon franchise years in advance and they HAVE been pushing Eevee with merchandise (because eevee IS super popular and always has been) for years already so this wouldn't be like greninja where its some unknown pokemon that will be promoted by the company in the near future, its Eevee who is already a pokemon super star.

Now that said I don't think if we get Eevee that means we cant get someone like decidueye as well, people argue fire emblem is popular enough to have its bloated roster spot of characters and that the game always features many characters so in that aspect having many playable characters in smash represents the fire emblem games well... given that argument I'd say pokemon wins out on all fronts here; popularity wise the franchise is likely bigger than mario and literally the games motto and goal is "gotta catch em all" so if theres an arguement for a large amount of roster spots "representing the game well" than pokemon IS the series to have a large number of reps. My saltiness at the number of FE reps shows through here but honestly my point is that if any series could have multiple newcomers and a large portion of the roster devoted to it and make sense to do so, pokemon is that IP.

I doubt anybody argues that FE being popular is what got it characters. Because it's just not popular. Smash was literally 99.9% percent of its marketing before Awakening lol, it never stood a chance based on popularity and success. It just got lucky with the timing and context of Smash games, Awakening was relevant near the beginning of the development of Smash 4 so it got a newcomer and a clone. Ike was a relevance character as well, Path of Radiance came out in 2005 and Brawl was started in 2005, easy inclusion for Sakurai to make. Roy was initially advertisement in Melee and was easy to implement into Smash 4 DLC for some easy cash from bringing back veterans (see as well: Mewtwo and Lucas). Corrin was an advertisement character as well, plus when Fates came out in Japan in 2015 it was the 25th anniversary for FE.

FE just got really lucky in Smash 4 and has generally been in a good spot for a newcomer in each Smash. Just because it has a lot of spots on the CSS doesn't mean everyone can go willy-nilly with their predictions "well if FE got a bunch of reps then anything can!" Also, I made a post on this thread yesterday about overrepresentation with KI but it can be applied to FE as well. Representation for a franchise in Smash isn't just slots on the roster CSS, it's representation in Smash as a whole. Some say "it's so niche and doesn't have as many sales as Pokemon or Zelda, why is it getting as many reps as them?". Notice how FE has had only 1 assist trophy since Brawl, only 3 stages from Melee to Smash 4, and no items. Meanwhile, Pokemon and Zelda dominate items and stages, with Pokemon basically having its own version of an assist trophy. Some may not like how it turns out with the community's tunnel-vision of the roster's importance, but the "bloatedness" of FE is actually pretty reasonable in the context of Smash as a whole.

Like you said, including a lot of characters is a priority for FE since it has a revolving door of casts and focuses heavily on these characters. However, that doesn't open the floodgates for everything else to have immense growth just because. FE got only two real newcomers in 4 since Lucina was a glorified alt costume and Roy was a semi-clone veteran. Even then having two newcomers is lucky because Corrin just barely weaseled their way in through the extreme advertising of Fates. I just want to combat the fallacy of "oh they got a roster count of 2 to 6 from the last game I guess anything and everything else increase." that is found within the community. I'm not arguing with you about Pokemon getting stuff, it definitely deserves it and I want to see more of it. I just don't think other franchises' roster sizes should be speculated to directly correlate with FE.

TLDR: FE and every franchise have unique circumstances for growth and "overrepresentation" isn't defined by the roster alone.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

How do you figure that? We've seen nothing but a short trailer. I'm not a Splatoon player so did I miss something?

The character designs of the Inklings as well as the design of the Splat Bomb and Splattershots used in the trailer is more akin to Splatoon 1 than 2.