Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[MrRoidley]

Guys, remember the leak on the Nintendo Switch Online announcement? The one with Crash, Spyro, Captain Toad and Ice Climbers for Smash? The leaker nailed the Let's go Pikachu and Eevee rumor.

We'll know if the leaker is for real when they announce Pokemon Switch.

That same leaker also said you could use Discord to voice chat on Switch and that NES, SNES, N64 and GBA games would be available under another branding that was basically VC but cheaper
Also, if the Star Fox rumor is real, that leak completely missed it

I think it's confirmed fake at this point but that's just me

 

[Pacack]

Does anyone else care to make some predictions for what we'll see revealed at E3?

Personally, I'm calling:

• Inkling gameplay
• Captain Toad
• Returning character (Wolf/Ice Climbers)
• Third Party (Rayman/Bomberman, probably, but Sora, Crash, or Steve would create buzz)
• Big-name first party (Pokemon/Legend of Zelda/Metroid/DK/Animal Crossing character)

That would be 4 newcomers including Inklings, and one returning veteran. I could also see them revealing one more character, but I'm not counting on it.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It just feels weird to sacrifice game quality for memes.

Jiggs brings very little to the table.

I've said this before but outside of "just being here" it hasn't gotten much of anything over the years.

neither in Smash or in Pokemon.

-Not in subspace
- Not in any Smash 4 cutscene movie trailer things
- No megas
- No z moves
- No aloan forms

Just a new typing.

It's not like the game's quality automatically declines just because Jigglypuff is in, she might not be relevant, but she was part of Smash's core cast, and as a result has become a stable of the series. She actually has a pretty strong fanbase in the Smash community too, hence all the #buffpuff shouts, and she still brings a unique playstyle to the table.

I also hate this line of thought where a character has to be able to promote the most recent game in its series or it's considered a waste of space. Like, why is a character a bad addition just because it doesn't bring extra money to Nintendo? Why in the world does that matter to us fans? It's not like all veterans are being used to market the game either, it doesn't matter if there are youngers generations who don't quite get it. Yes, I get that her inclusion hasn't aged that well, but she was once one of the faces of the series during the absolute peak of its hype, and I think with how many newcomers that depend on recency these days she will hardly be the last veteran to end up being irrelevant but still stick around regardless.

It's not like Jigglypuff takes any other Pokémon's spot either, there's a reason she's always low priority: she's incredibly easy to make. It's not Jigglypuff or some other Pokémon, it's Jigglypuff or no one (or a clone at best).

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

Does anyone else care to make some predictions for what we'll see revealed at E3?

Personally, I'm calling:

• Inkling gameplay
• Captain Toad
• Returning character (Wolf/Ice Climbers)
• Third Party (Rayman/Bomberman, probably, but Sora, Crash, or Steve would create buzz)
• Big-name first party (Pokemon/Legend of Zelda/Metroid/DK/Animal Crossing character)

That would be 4 newcomers including Inklings, and one returning veteran. I could also see them revealing one more character, but I'm not counting on it.

I'm willing to bet we'll see Pikachu. Mario too.

Oh, you meant new stuff. I think Inkling gameplay is a given. I'm going to make a bold prediction and say we'll at least see most of the roster (65-70% or so) and we'll see 20% more in a Smash Direct, and the rest when the game comes out. However I don't think a lot of those characters will be playable in the E3 build of the game.

I bet we see the majority of the items in the game, as well as ~15 stages. Probs a few Pokeballs and Assist Trophies to give us a fair share of deconfirmations.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

That same leaker also said you could use Discord to voice chat on Switch and that NES, SNES, N64 and GBA games would be available under another branding that was basically VC but cheaper
Also, if the Star Fox rumor is real, that leak completely missed it

I think it's confirmed fake at this point but that's just me

God I hope it's fake. I don't know about you guys, but Captain Toad, an expected veteran return and two minor third parties aren't quite an exciting E3 for me. Believe me, Toad defintely deserves to be in Smash and I think it's his time, but not super exciting.

Also I found it strange that they only mentioned Smash having two character reveal trailers. While we don't know the length I'd assume they would be as long as past trailers. Nintendo has defintely made it seem that Smash will be the main event of E3 and I'm kind of expecting more than two character trailers. More of an in depth look into the game.

 

[MrRoidley]

Jigglypuff being "irrelevant" to Pokémon isn't a reason to cut it from Smash. At all.
If that's a reason to cut characters, then let's go and cut Ness, Lucas, Captain Falcon and Sheik lol

 

[TumblrFamous]

If the new Pokemon game isn't Gen VIII and just some Pokemon Go-type game focusing on Gen 1, I'm going to be disappointed. The Pokemon company really needs to take off the nostalgia goggles and push forward instead of dumbing down the franchise and sticking solely to what has worked to a tee.

As for E3 for Smash, I'm expecting roughly 4 more newcomers in addition to Inklings, and likely Ice Climbers. Plus a bunch of stages. As for who, I can see something like Captain Toad, a Zelda/DK character, and some heavy hitter first or third party (at this point the biggest heavy hitters are probably K. Rool and Ridley).

 

[osby]

However they are IN there, how much or how little is irrelevant.

Ness and Lucas characters from a dead franchise were in there and Jiggs a character from the 2nd biggest franchise was not.

If we are still talking about Subspace Emissary, it's because she added far too late into the development to be included to the story. Same can be said about Wolf, Toon Link and to be honest Sonic.

If promotional is the issue, she was unlockable in the 3DS version, so it's understandable they shied away from using her.

 

[Pakky]

If we are still talking about Subspace Emissary, it's because she added far too late into the development to be included to the story.

Yet every other Pokemon character made it in, odd isn't it?

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Yet every other Pokemon character made it in, odd isn't it?

No, it’s not. Pikachu was probably made first. Then the two (four I guess) newcomers. Then Jigglypuff last.

 

[lltacx]

Even if there were going to be cuts, I’m almost certain Mewtwo wouldn’t be cut.

I will never be sure about Mewtwo anymore to be honest, i was so happy he came back it would be a shame if he wouldn't come back. And seeing as he was always at the end of the priority list apparently (god knows why), i'll still be skeptical :'D

 

[osby]

Yet every other Pokemon character made it in, odd isn't it?

Odd, indeed.

 

[Pakky]

No, it’s not. Pikachu was probably made first. Then the two (four I guess) newcomers. Then Jigglypuff last.

Though people are saying she was easy to make so with being of the original 12 and her ease of creation, why exclude her from something so monumental?

Odd, indeed.

Since when are Wolf and Toon Link apart of the original 12?

Wolf and Toon Link would not hold as much weight as someone who has been in the games since the start and his easy to make. It makes little sense.

 

[MrReyes96]

Jigglypuff being "irrelevant" to Pokémon isn't a reason to cut it from Smash. At all.
If that's a reason to cut characters, then let's go and cut Ness, Lucas, Captain Falcon and Sheik lol

Difference being that with Pokémon there are hundreds of options to choose from.
All those characters represent a franchise and are main characters, Sheik aside.

But I don’t think she’ll be cut

 

[osby]

Since when are Wolf and Toon Link apart of the original 12?

I never said being in the Smash 64 gives you a special importance.

 

[Pakky]

I never said being in the Smash 64 gives you a special importance.

No but that seems to be the attitude or the justification among many for her staying around along with her supposed ease of creation.

 

[Sonic Poke]

Being low priority doesn't mean high chance of cut.
The low priorities from Brawl were , but only was cut.

Among the Smash 4 cuts , only was low priority.

 

[Zerp]

Jigglypuff is still more iconic/recognizable to the public than the vast majority of Pokemon that could possibly replace her (and most of those she isn't more iconic than are from Gen 1, aka the ones everyone doesn't want), gets a stupidly high amount of merchandise even though her generation has long passed (which pretty much means she is still popular, if she wasn't people wouldn't be buying it and the pokemon company wouldn't go out of their way to continually produce merchandise for a gen 1 pokemon), and has been a veteran for 4 games now as opposed to Brawl when she was only in 2 Smash games before that, I don't see the point of cutting her on purpose unless you want to annihilate the roster and bring it down to 30 or some other low number for whatever reason.

 

[T-Donor66]

I will never be sure about Mewtwo anymore to be honest, i was so happy he came back it would be a shame if he wouldn't come back. And seeing as he was always at the end of the priority list apparently (god knows why), i'll still be skeptical :'D

Nah, after the insane reception and hype Mewtwo got after his reveal (which was just a static model, not even a crazy trailer), there’s no way the could still be considered low priority.

 

[Opossum]

Jigglypuff falls pretty firmly into the "They're likely never leaving, but I couldn't care less if they were cut" category for me.

 

[IntelliHeath1]

Only four more weeks, y'all guys!

 

[Deleted member]

Jigglypuff is 100% a low priority character. There's a reason why Puff was one of the 3 characters to not be featured in Subspace (4, if you count Sonic). And who were the other three? Sonic, Toon Link, and Wolf: one extremely popular character that was added later in development out of fan demand after Snake's reveal and two easy to add last minute clones. Fortunately for Puff, she's also an easy character to add, and seniority will help keep her from being completely ditched. But she definitely isn't immune to being cut due to time constraints.

 

[Jubileus57]

I'd be very saddened if we lose Jigglypuff. She is the only decent playable Pokémon IMO (I find the others to be grossly oversold and boring as heck)

 

[Sonic Poke]

The thing about Jigglypuff is that she is more of a smash character than a pokemon character. Just like Captain Falcon. Cutting her would be like cutting Master Hand or Giga Bowser.

 

[osby]

And why are we talking about cutting characters just because they aren't popular in their own franchise, anyway? Smash is also a franchise.

 

[MrRoidley]

Difference being that with Pokémon there are hundreds of options to choose from.
All those characters represent a franchise and are main characters, Sheik aside.

But I don’t think she’ll be cut

That's true, my point was mostly about how certain characters hold some kind of fame inside Smash that they don't in their own series or outside Smash altogether. Which is Jiggs's case imo

 

[MrReyes96]

I’d love if Jigglypuff got an overhaul, her specials are all doodoo. Give her fairy type moves and normal moves. I wouldn’t care if she got cut, as much as I dislike the gen 1 pandering i’d rather have Eevee, meowth, gengar, squirtle, ivysaur, etc in her place.

 

[Deleted member]

So if this is a new generation/Kanto focus new game, what are the thoughts of what this means for Decidueye, Mimikyu, Lycanroc, Inciniroar, etc in Smash? Still likely?

Considering the roster would have been decided around Sun/Moon's release, Let's Go! Pikachu! wouldn't mean anything for their chances.

....especially since Pikachu is already on the roster.

 

[osby]

I’d love if Jigglypuff got an overhaul, her specials are all doodoo. Give her fairy type moves and normal moves. I wouldn’t care if she got cut, as much as I dislike the gen 1 pandering i’d rather have Eevee, meowth, gengar, squirtle, ivysaur, etc in her place.

It's kinda bad Smash don't really replace characters unless you count Young Link to Toon Link.

(Also Smash isn't a RPG, there's no difference between Fairy type and Normal type)

 

[Zerp]

So if this is a new generation/Kanto focus new game, what are the thoughts of what this means for Decidueye, Mimikyu, Lycanroc, Inciniroar, etc in Smash? Still likely?

Still likely, but like I said a while ago I think it's actually possible that none of them will get in if we get multiple popular and/or iconic Gen 1 Pokemon like Meowth, Clefairy, Eevee and others like them.

 

[NeonBurrito]

I’d love if Jigglypuff got an overhaul, her specials are all doodoo. Give her fairy type moves and normal moves. I wouldn’t care if she got cut, as much as I dislike the gen 1 pandering i’d rather have Eevee, meowth, gengar, squirtle, ivysaur, etc in her place.

Jigglypuff's specials could definitely use an update. Sing and Rollout are garbage. I'd make Sing somewhat of a projectile and replace Rollout with Dazzling Gleam or Moonblast.

Buff the Puff in Smash 5.

 

[osby]

Jigglypuff's specials could definitely use an update. Sing and Rollout are garbage. I'd make Sing somewhat of a projectile and replace Rollout with Dazzling Gleam or Moonblast.

Buff the Puff in Smash 5.

Change Sing and Rollout? But they are fun. I wouldn't oppose to any buffs, however.

 

[Bowserlick]

Rollout is a boring move. Have Jiggs inflate herself instead with a charge and swoosh around the stage letting out air like a deflating balloon.

 

[Deleted member]

Does that mean it's finally Snorlax's time to shine?



He has been in Smash since the beginning.

 

[NeonBurrito]

Change Sing and Rollout? But they are fun. I wouldn't oppose to any buffs, however.

Rollout might be fun, but it could certainly use some QoL changes to prevent stuff like this from happening:

Sing is just straight up garbage though. Has been since Smash 64. Its range is far too short to do anything substantial, unless you're playing against someone really bad.

 

[MysticKnives]

Nah, after the insane reception and hype Mewtwo got after his reveal (which was just a static model, not even a crazy trailer), there’s no way the could still be considered low priority.

Can’t say I agree. He’s had mad hype even before then and the fact he still got held back puts me at doubt. Yeah, Mewtwo should be in the base roster, but it bein very popular isn’t that strong of an argument when it has been low priority more than once.

 

[osby]

Rollout might be fun, but it could certainly use some

Sing is just straight up garbage though. Has been since Smash 64. Its range is far too short to do anything substantial, unless you're playing against someone really bad.

Eh, I'd argue they are significantly more useful in casual play and doubles but yeah, it's not like they are the best moves around.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Jigglypuff and Sheik are pretty comparable once you think about it.

 

[Deleted member]

If we're buffing Sing, Puff could just face forward with her mic and emit her song in a cone shape in front of her. That'd help with the range issues.

 

[Bradli Wartooth]

From someone who was extremely hyped to see Mewtwo return, I think at least a decent portion of the hype for his reveal was also the confirmation that DLC was happening in some capacity for Smash 4.