Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Antimatter042]

Guys, remember the leak on the Nintendo Switch Online announcement? The one with Crash, Spyro, Captain Toad and Ice Climbers for Smash? The leaker nailed the Let's go Pikachu and Eevee rumor.

We'll know if the leaker is for real when they announce Pokemon Switch.

I don't think so. Even if Pokemon Let's Go is real (increasingly seeming like the case), the GameFaqs NSO leak only said a Kanto revisit which is an idea people have been dogpiling on for months and the 4chan version only said realistic graphics. It's not a confirmation by any means and there's still too many things about that leak that don't stack up. I absolutely refuse to be tricked by a rumour that claims that Fire Emblem 16 is called Lustrous Daybreak (Radiant Dawn synonym) and FNAF is coming to Switch.

 

[Darkraid]

Does this mean... well could this mean... Mewtwo stays for good O_O That would make my world

I'd be very happy with no cuts. I hate cuts after the crappy MVCI and Tekken 7 cuts. I pray that there will be no cuts.

 

[Cosmic77]

Guys, remember the leak on the Nintendo Switch Online announcement? The one with Crash, Spyro, Captain Toad and Ice Climbers for Smash? The leaker nailed the Let's go Pikachu and Eevee rumor.

We'll know if the leaker is for real when they announce Pokemon Switch.

The leaker didn't nail anything. He said that we would be getting Red and Blue remakes with graphics somewhere between Sun/Moon and Pokken. I might have given him more credit if he specifically mentioned a focus on Pikachu and Eevee, but most of what he said fell alongside the rumors floating around at the time, especially that leaked image of a trainer riding on a Lapras.

Not trying to discredit the guy, but the information he provided wasn't specific enough for me to believe that he knew anything more than us about the next Pokemon games.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So if this is a new generation/Kanto focus new game, what are the thoughts of what this means for Decidueye, Mimikyu, Lycanroc, Inciniroar, etc in Smash? Still likely?

Well it reduces the chances of an unknown Gen 8 Pokemon so it could go either way.

 

[Sigran101]

I don't think this was supposed to be a leak per say. It seemed like Emily was just sharing her excitement. I think everyone here is missing the point.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Let's hope Sakurai managed to overcome his fear of odd numbers when it comes to Pokémon, except obviously gen 1.
Gen 7 added so many cool things, not getting a character would really make me sad.

Mod Edit: Image removed. Clearly inappropriate.

 

[T-Donor66]

Does this mean... well could this mean... Mewtwo stays for good O_O That would make my world

Even if there were going to be cuts, I’m almost certain Mewtwo wouldn’t be cut.

 

[Pakky]

Even if there were going to be cuts, I’m almost certain Mewtwo wouldn’t be cut.

I think of someone else

 

[T-Donor66]

I think of someone else

I don’t think Jiggly is going anywhere. I’m pretty sure the OG twelve are forever safe at this point.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think of someone else

Jigglypuff literally was more prioritised in 64, Brawl and Smash 4 than Mewtwo. How is she more likely than Mewtwo to be cut?

 

[wildvine47]

I think of someone else

Jiggly's one of the Original 12. She's never leaving lol. If anyone from Pokemon gets cut it'd be Greninja, but even then I don't see that happening. I figure for once, our Pokemon roster is safe.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Every single Smash game, Jigglypuff is the number one pokémon to be cut, and every single Smash game she comes back.
My little finger tells me we'll see her again in this one my dude.

 

[Deleted member]

After reading some of this Pokemon leak stuff...eh, I don't buy it. I still doubt Pokemon is even happening this year, and it's E3 season; everyone and their brother is gonna say that they know stuff, lol. I'll just wait and see what Nintendo has to say for themselves.

Spoiler

However, if it IS true...not a huge fan of the Gen 1 obsession. It's like the Pokemon version of Paper Mario's Toad infestation. And taking after Pokemon Go? Yeah, no thanks. Pokemon is already pretty simplistic, I'd rather it not be dumbed down anymore than it already is...

Of course, I guess we don't really know if that's what "taking after Pokemon Go" would entail. Maybe it'd be cool? I dunno, I'd need to see it in action first.

On the topic of Pokemon reps for Smash, my bets are on the more predictable side with Decidueye. It's an easy choice, Rowlet was probably the most popular starter from Alola and he has unique moveset potential.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Every single Smash game, Jigglypuff is the number one pokémon to be cut, and every single Smash game she comes back.
My little finger tells me we'll see her again in this one my dude.

She's also an relatively easier character to implement than any other non-clone character.

 

[Arcanir]

But doesn't Joe think that Pokémon won't be out for 2018 but for 2019?
If Nintendo's E3 is only for 2018 games, then Pokémon being announced this month would make sense-
But then, wouldn't it break that old leak about the showfloor being half Smash- half Pokémon?

Actually the opposite. While he did initially think 2019, his posts on ResetERA have been very much pro-2018 for the past few months. This information would actually explain why he shifted in his position that much, as well as why he's been stating repeatedly: 'who says this is Gen 8?'
​

So if this is a new generation/Kanto focus new game, what are the thoughts of what this means for Decidueye, Mimikyu, Lycanroc, Inciniroar, etc in Smash? Still likely?

I don't think it means much, at least not yet. As mentioned before, we could get two as there's nothing saying Pokemon has to be stuck at one newcomer per entry. It also depends on if Sakurai was made aware of it (since Pokémon Switch would have an even shorter gap between releases then XY, and that's if it makes its 2018 date), and if he felt that a Pokémon from Switch should take precedence over Gen 7 if only newcomer is allowed.

Personally, until we get more on Smash Switch, I still think a Gen 7 Pokémon is in the cards since it still will be somewhat relevant by the time, but I will concede this is a unique situation.

 

[Pakky]

#dreams
#most popular 7th gen Pokemon

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Oh, another Gen 7 vs Gen 8 debate? I'm gonna repost what i think of it.

Getting a Gen 8 Pokemon (outside of last-minute clones) in Smash Switch would be equivalent of getting a FE10 character in Brawl as it released in the same year Brawl was originally intended to. But we ultimately got Ike based off Path of Radiance, a game that was released the same year Brawl's roster was finalized. Unless we're getting clones, I don't expect any Gen 8 characters.

I mean, Gen 7 was the upcoming game at the time the roster was finalized.

 

[Pakky]

Oh, another Gen 7 vs Gen 8 debate? I'm gonna repost what i think of it.

We don't know when development of 8th gen started...

 

[MysticKnives]

Lol at Jiggs being the likeliest mon to get cut. Track record would suggest it’ll make it into Smash this time and that Mewtwo is likelier to get cut. Mewtwo is quite popular and Sakurai knows it, yet it’s been cut twice (yeah we know why, but regardless it wasn’t ever given more priority than Puff and has failed to make the base roster of 3 of the 4 playable Smash games so far).

 

[Propeller Toad]

Jigglypuff's been in rougher spots over the years in comparison to now where it got a new Fairy typing resurgence in Gen 6 while the infamous Jigglypuff returned in the Sun/Moon anime a few times as well once again.

It just feels odd to think of Smash without Jigglypuff at this point personally.

 

[Pakky]

It just feels weird to sacrifice game quality for memes.

Jiggs brings very little to the table.

I've said this before but outside of "just being here" it hasn't gotten much of anything over the years.

neither in Smash or in Pokemon.

-Not in subspace
- Not in any Smash 4 cutscene movie trailer things
- No megas
- No z moves
- No aloan forms

Just a new typing.

 

[MysticKnives]

Jigglypuff's been in rougher spots over the years in comparison to now where it got a new Fairy typing resurgence in Gen 6 while the infamous Jigglypuff returned in the Sun/Moon anime a few times as well once again.

It just feels odd to think of Smash without Jigglypuff at this point personally.

Agreed. It’s as significant to the series as any of the other OG12 that started this franchise for me

 

[osby]

It just feels weird to sacrifice game quality for memes.

Jiggs brings very little to the table.

I've said this before but outside of "just being here" it hasn't gotten much of anything over the years.

neither in Smash or in Pokemon.

-Not in subspace
- Not in any Smash 4 cut scenes
- No megas
- No z moves
- No aloan forms

Just a new typing.

Wait, Jigglypuff is a meme now?

 

[Chandeelure]

#dreams
#most popular 7th gen Pokemon

Bewear is not impressed.

 

[Pakky]

Bewear is not impressed.

Neither is Mimikyu

Its an acknowledgement of strength.

However in an actual battle Mimikyu has the upper hand.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

It just feels weird to sacrifice game quality for memes.

Jiggs brings very little to the table.

I've said this before but outside of "just being here" it hasn't gotten much of anything over the years.

neither in Smash or in Pokemon.

-Not in subspace
- Not in any Smash 4 cutscene movie trailer things
- No megas
- No z moves
- No aloan forms

Just a new typing.

I don't see why being changed over time is needed. Her design is perfectly fine in Melee. If they would just stop nerfing her to hell, she'd serve a meaningful function in the roster.

Edit: Though I wouldn't object to a Z-Move Final Smash or something

 

[Pakky]

I don't see why being changed over time is needed. Her design is perfectly fine in Melee. If they would just stop nerfing her to hell, she'd serve a meaningful function in the roster.

Edit: Though I wouldn't object to a Z-Move Final Smash or something

I said all that to say that despite being loved and a part of the original 12 she doesn't really appear in any of the promotional material for Smash or in a game play mode like Subspace.

In Pokemon despite other popular gen 1 pokes getting stuff like Z moves and megas her line continually does not.

Do they really care about jiggs if she is not shown in anything (but the anime) or given anything?

I don't know.

 

[MysticKnives]

I don’t see what makes Puff a meme

 

[Murlough]

Which... wasn't the point they're making. A semi-clone is just another type of clone. It's not a big deal anyway. Just reusing animations from a character or two. Roy was not like this in Melee, as he was a pure clone there, and got updated to be a semi-clone in 4.

The point was that Ike was not a clone whatsoever, where Roy was still using many of Marth's animations and moves in 4. He's still partially a clone. You were basically saying a completely unique character was more similar than a partial clone. That's why people took issue with it, because it was inaccurate.

And the FIRST time I was called out for it I apologized for the comment. I went on for posts after stating that I know it was dumb. I don't get why you or anyone think I haven't realized it was a mistake yet, its kind of obnoxious.

There is a distinction worth making between semi-clone and clone, otherwise the term would not exist.

REAAAAAD: Roy is a semi-clone. This was everything and the only thing I was trying to argue. At least 3 people who had argued for an hour with me have now said that they agree. I, for the last ****ing time, recognize that my Ike point was terrible. I said this the first post after I was called out for it.

IF YOU AGREE THAT ROY IS A SEMI-CLONE THEN WE HAVE NOTHING TO DISCUSS. PLEASE STOP QUOTING ME ABOUT IT IF YOU AGREE. THANK. YOU.

 

[Pakky]

I don’t see what makes Puff a meme

Rest being a insta kill was my thought that they character was a meme.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Just imagine if combine all the rosters of the other crossover fighting games and put all in Super Smash Bros. for Switch (Blade Strangers + Cross Tag Battle) + Super Smash Bros., that's had very pros and cons, like non-videogame characters can entrance, or the dream of everyone: see Mario, Sonic, Mega Man and PAC-MAN, fighting indie characters like Shovel Knight, Quote, Commander Video, Gunvolt, Isaac, Meat Boy; and even fighting Ragna the Bloodedge, Yu Narukami, Hyde Kido, and Ruby Rose.

THE END.

 

[osby]

Rest being a insta kill was my thought that they character was a meme.

It's not more of a insta kill than Little Mac's KO punch.

 

[Pakky]

It's not more of a insta kill than Little Mac's KO punch.

Except you have to build up to Little mac's punch and the move itself has thematic relevance to the character being a boxer.

Rest is a move that heals in the Pokemon games that it comes from, being a insta kill move here in Smash has no other connotation outside of meaning to be comedic. Also seeing as how the move is a call back to the running gag of Therefore a meme.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

And the FIRST time I was called out for it I apologized the comment. I went on for posts after stating that I know it was dumb. I don't get why you or anyone think I haven't realized it was a mistake yet, its kind of obnoxious.

There is a distinction worth making between semi-clone and clone, otherwise the term would not exist.

REAAAAAD: Roy is a semi-clone. This was everything and the only thing I was trying to argue. At least 3 people who had argued for an hour with me have now said that they agree. I, for the last ****ing time, recognize that my Ike point was terrible. I said this the first post after I was called out for it.

IF YOU AGREE THAT ROY IS A SEMI-CLONE THEN WE HAVE NOTHING TO DISCUSS. PLEASE STOP QOUTING ME ABOUT IT IF YOU AGREE. THANK. YOU.

You know, you might do well in the future to edit a post to add an update at the bottom when people start doing what they've done here. Granted, it's too late now, but that's probably better than BOLD.CAPS.PERIODS. when the issue is that they aren't reading far enough ahead to see that what they're saying is redundant. Most likely, if they see the YELLING. they'd have also read through you disowning the comment 50 times prior, and since they didn't do the latter, the former only helps in outlier cases.
Admittedly, people should really just read through a discussion to make sure they aren't saying something pointless, but you'll never get people to stop jumping in to say something without enough information.

 

[osby]

Except you have to build up to Little mac's punch and the move itself has thematic relevance to the character being a boxer.

Rest a move the heals in the game it comes from, being a insta kill move is meant to be comedic. Therefore a meme.

Okay, got it. Eh, but I wouldn't call it a meme. Falcon Punch is more of a meme at this point.

Also, in any case it's hardly the only comedic move in the game.

 

[Murlough]

You know, you might do well in the future to edit a post to add an update at the bottom when people start doing what they've done here. Granted, it's too late now, but that's probably better than BOLD.CAPS.PERIODS. when the issue is that they aren't reading far enough ahead to see that what they're saying is redundant. Most likely, if they see the YELLING. they'd have also read through you disowning the comment 50 times prior, and since they didn't do the latter, the former only helps in outlier cases.
Admittedly, people should really just read through a discussion to make sure they aren't saying something pointless, but you'll never get people to stop jumping in to say something without enough information.

I will try to keep that in mind. Though I'd much rather avoid arguing on the internet ever again, at this point.

On an actual on topic note: those Mimikyu images are amazing and actually give me some hope for the little guy.

 

[MysticKnives]

I said all that to say that despite being loved and a part of the original 12 she doesn't really appear in any of the promotional material for Smash or in a game play mode like Subspace.

In Pokemon despite other popular gen 1 pokes getting stuff like Z moves and megas her line continually does not.

Do they really care about jiggs if she is not shown in anything (but the anime) or given anything?

I don't know.

I mean I guess but Ness himself isn’t really in much promotional material (neither is Luigi from memory) and their roles were also happened to be pretty small in subspace to boot. Just to address the points you made.

 

[Pakky]

I mean I guess but Ness himself isn’t really in much promotional material (neither is Luigi from memory) and their roles were also happened to be pretty small in subspace to boot. Just to address the points you made.

However they are IN there, how much or how little is irrelevant.

Ness and Lucas characters from a dead franchise were in there and Jiggs a character from the 2nd biggest franchise was not.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I said all that to say that despite being loved and a part of the original 12 she doesn't really appear in any of the promotional material for Smash or in a game play mode like Subspace.

In Pokemon despite other popular gen 1 pokes getting stuff like Z moves and megas her line continually does not.

Do they really care about jiggs if she is not shown in anything (but the anime) or given anything?

I don't know.

To be fair, I do understand the point you're making. Jigglypuff isn't a promoted Pokémon at all, especially compared to others.

Whilst Pikachu is obvious, Charizard and Mewtwo both got two mega forms, Lucario was heavily used to promote the mega form, all of these guys also appeared in Pokken and even Greninja was given a unique one of a kind form.

Meanwhile Puff has...Pokémon conquest a bit, the anime(which she's been absent from for years and years) and when they decided to give some Kanto Pokémon new looks for Alola Jigglypuff wasn't amongst the chosen.

Vulpix was pretty much the face of Alola forms with Meowth, Exeggutor, Raichu, Geodude, etc following suit.

Other Kanto Pokémon have received alternate evolutions, forms and mega evolutions. Puff got a baby form that was outshined by both Togepi, Pichu and arguably Elekid too.
It's clear Jigglypuff has never been a Pokémon gamefreak have massively tried pushing so her inclusion sticks out a bit comparatively.

Her claims to fame are being catchable in every region(although I'm sure she isn't the only one) and appearing in this game.

That's it. She's not got loads of merchandise, she was absent from the anime for years and she really is the oddball amongst the seeming uncuttables.

I say this as someone who doesn't wish for her to get cut, as she's the only Pokémon I enjoy playing as, but I can see why she's the least notable Pokémon in Smash history to make it as playable bar arguably Ivysaur.

 

[MysticKnives]

However they are IN there, how much or how little is irrelevant.

Ness and Lucas characters from a dead franchise were in there and Jiggs a character from the 2nd biggest franchise was not.

Sure. But if that’s not enough to warrant cutting then so be it. It’s fine you feel that way, I just respectfully disagree.