Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[True Blue Warrior]

Fire Emblem should get another Assist Trophy.

Please tell me you were sarcastic.

Why would I be given the context of my response? The character design similarities I noted are just as (if not more so) significant as that of Kirby and Bandana Dee.

 

[Wyoming]

Jigglypuff looks more like Kirby than Bandana Dee does. I don't see what the issue is here.

Bandana Dee would have noticeable features such as: a spear, a bandana, no mouth, different skin color, and different colored boots/feet.

The only thing they share is the same height and possibly weight, which is what Jigglypuff has in common with Kirby to begin with.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I do have a feeling that Bandanna Waddle Dee will be another one of those silent fighters.

 

[Jubileus57]

Of all the arguments I've heard against the inclusion of Bandana Dee, "looks too much like Kirby'' is by far the most preposterous one.

I get that some people want him out as its a matter of personal tastes but some arguments out there are really off. Another one would be "but its a generic waddle dee with a bandana" while pushing for Captain Toad. Like, really? (besides, unlike Toads Waddles Dees are LIKEABLE)

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

What's happenin' foruUUOOOOH!? Wait, are we fighting over Bandana Dee's visual similarities to Kirby? And Jigglypuff!? HAAAAAH!

I do have a feeling that Bandanna Waddle Dee will be another one of those silent fighters.

You know, I can see this happening. He tends not to make a peep when he fights or gets hit. Unless we're talking Kirby Battle Royale where he does these cute little mynha-mynha sounds when he gets hit. He almost sounds like a cartoonish chipmunk (no, not those ones.) :B

Never mind that he can talk in full paragraphs. Also, please make his Star KO the Lost Life jingle like it is in SSF2.

 

[osby]

I'd want Bandana Waddle Dee in Smash but it's going to be annoying people crying out "Sakurai bias!" if Star Fox, Donkey Kong AND Metroid doesn't get a new character.

or you know, even if they do

 

[Jak_spoon]

Of all the arguments I've heard against the inclusion of Bandana Dee, "looks too much like Kirby'' is by far the most preposterous one.

I get that some people want him out as its a matter of personal tastes but some arguments out there are really off. Another one would be "but its a generic waddle dee with a bandana" while pushing for Captain Toad. Like, really? (besides, unlike Toads Waddles Dees are LIKEABLE)

Sakurai has stated before that to him it is important that the silhouette for each character is different/distinguishable from all the other characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Sakurai has stated before that to him it is important that the silhouette for each character is different/distinguishable from all the other characters.

Then there is nothing to worry about in regards to Bandana Dee.

I'd want Bandana Waddle Dee in Smash but it's going to be annoying people crying out "Sakurai bias!" if Star Fox, Donkey Kong AND Metroid doesn't get a new character.

or you know, even if they do

Bandana Dee only really got prominent in the Kirby games Sakurai didn't work on.

 

[Jubileus57]

I'd want Bandana Waddle Dee in Smash but it's going to be annoying people crying out "Sakurai bias!" if Star Fox, Donkey Kong AND Metroid doesn't get a new character.

or you know, even if they do

People would be far more right to scream SAKURAI BIAS! if characters like Marx make it before BWD. Since you know, BWD was a mere side character when he directed Kirby games.

Besides, aside from Brawl Kirby series always got the short end of the stick (remember Melee? Or even Sm4sh which criminally had such little new Kirby content).

EDIT: clarifying my thoughts

Sakurai has stated before that to him it is important that the silhouette for each character is different/distinguishable from all the other characters.

With a Bandana, a spear and a non round shape, BWD's silhouette much further to Kirby's when compared to Jigglypuff.

And people don't seem to mind the silhouettes of the FE characters or the Pit/Dark Pit duo.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Can we make a Smashboards Logical Fallacy Chart & etch in sections for Sakurai Bias & the apparently-burgeoning Visual Redundancy fallacies?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

People would be far more right to scream SAKURAI BIAS! if characters like Marx make it before BWD. Since you know, he was a mere side character when he directed Kirby games.

Besides, aside from Brawl Kirby series always got the short end of the stick (remember Melee? Or even Sm4sh which criminally had such little new content).

Saying Marx was a mere side character is underselling him a bit, he was the final boss of the series' fan favorite game. I do agree it'd scream Sakurai bias and that Bandana Dee should no doubt be the next Kirby rep, but it's not like Marx is a nobody, it's just that Bandana Dee is a better option.

 

[Nekoo]

Fire Emblem should get another Assist Trophy.



Why would I be given the context of my response? The character design similarities I noted are just as (if not more so) significant as that of Kirby and Bandana Dee.

The peak of hypocrisy to says that the FE characters AND MOTHER****ING CLOUD have the same chara design.
Bandana Dee doesn't look like Kirby- but using an argument equally dumb- especially when Could's Design is Iconics worldwide is probably equally- or not as stupid-

 

[blackghost]

why is it that for some franchises, like when people say takumaru (idk how to spell it) will get in because he's popular in japan yet are assuming that for some reason that doesn't matter when it comes to FE.
the fans (not nintendo) are responsible for theire emblem having a huge count in smash. People begged for roy yet now complain about "over-representation" Lyn or celica will get in. They seem much much more likely than a new zelda chaarcter or a new dk character

 

[Jubileus57]

Saying Marx was a mere side character is underselling him a bit, he was the final boss of the series' fan favorite game. I do agree it'd scream Sakurai bias and that Bandana Dee should no doubt be the next Kirby rep, but it's not like Marx is a nobody, it's just that Bandana Dee is a better option.

I formulated badly. I meant that BWD was a mere side character at the time, so if Sakurai's bia applied, he would pass over it in favour of Marx. Which is anything but a mere side character

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Can we make a Smashboards Logical Fallacy Chart & etch in sections for Sakurai Bias & the apparently-burgeoning Visual Redundancy fallacies?

Don't forget these following arguments as well

"Clones are always typically low priority. Everything that contradicts it doesn't count because *insert arbitrary reason*"
"Appearing in a recent game means people are likely to care about you"
"Third-party characters need to be icons"

 

[Jak_spoon]

Can we make a Smashboards Logical Fallacy Chart & etch in sections for Sakurai Bias & the apparently-burgeoning Visual Redundancy fallacies?

Sakurai is weird. He has all these made up rules that are "super vital" and need to be followed and then he throws them out the window all the time. Honestly, I think his rules are what are hurting Smash characters atm.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The peak of hypocrisy to says that the FE characters AND MOTHER****ING CLOUD have the same chara design.
Bandana Dee doesn't look like Kirby- but using an argument equally dumb- especially when Could's Design is Iconics worldwide is probably equally- or not as stupid-

The point of my argument was that it was dumb to begin with. Not sure why you missed it. You're better off complaining to all the people who see the FE characters and Cloud as "another generic anime swordsman".

And no, I never said that the FE characters I listed had the same character design nor did I for Shulk vs Cloud. Similarities =/= same. You basically misread my entire post if you honestly think that.

 

[osby]

Sakurai is weird. He has all these made up rules that are "super vital" and need to be followed and then he throws them out the window all the time. Honestly, I think his rules are what are hurting Smash characters atm.

I think people are just looking at his explanations about how he does stuff and take it as gospel.

He has to have some "rules" or you can't do anything with this game. There are just way too many possibilities.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai actually did say "3rd party characters must have a gaming history." This rule was not created till after Snake was already in the game, making Bayonetta the only exception to that rule. And that was a very unique circumstance. The rule is still in play as is. One thing to remember that "iconic" and "gaming history" don't necessarily mean the same thing. He didn't really explain all that well what "gaming history" means. Besides clearly not meaning "important to Nintendo" at least as a character option.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Sakurai is weird. He has all these made up rules that are "super vital" and need to be followed and then he throws them out the window all the time. Honestly, I think his rules are what are hurting Smash characters atm.

I'd rather us discuss the possibilities of a new Smash game instead of retreading the same arguments that plagued the Smash 4 cycle. Maybe there's a time & place for it, or we end up bringing these up when we just go about ourselves. A lot of the time it just ends up feeling... arbitrary?

Anyhow, I suppose we should try to get away from this for now. What else did you lot wanna discuss about Smash 5?

 

[Roberk]

Just saying when it comes to Zelda vs FE representation, they don’t take “spots” from each other. Representation is chosen for certain reasons. Zelda has a ton of item, assist trophy, and stage representation, and while some may not like it, those things fit it better. The Zelda series has a ton of iconic items so they get items. The Zelda series has many popular sidekicks who assist you (Midna, Fi, etc), hence, assist trophies. The Zelda series has many iconic locations so they’ve gotten a lot of stage representation.

Meanwhile, FE is a series centered on characters more than any other franchise in Smash. Having as many characters as possible for it fits to representing the franchise, since it’s so heavily focused on characters. It doesn’t heavy get item, assist trophy, or stage representation because those things don’t fit FE representation as much as playing it’s many characters. Like it or not, representation doesn’t just encompass playable characters. FE just lucks our in the sense that the representation everybody focuses on, characters, is what it also focuses on.

Just because FE had a lot of reps doesn’t mean that their options for newcomers aren’t good. Smash 4 went overboard, but the series and the characters were just in the right place at the right time many times. Smash Switch is supposed to expand Smash and the so called “limit” on FE characters will theoretically be raised.

We are hoping that everything is expanded upon in this game, are we not? Then why are people thinking one of Nintendo’s flagship franchises with many likely picks for newcomers won’t get a newcomer? What happened to Zelda in Smash 4 was terrible, but the series is treated much differently in terms of overall representation. IMO, saying a series like FE won’t get a rep seems more like slighting it than actually thinking in chances. It doesn’t have to be used as a scapegoat for people who think it’s the reason their favorite franchise didn’t get another playable character.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Sakurai actually did say "3rd party characters must have a gaming history." This rule was not created till after Snake was already in the game, making Bayonetta the only exception to that rule. And that was a very unique circumstance. The rule is still in play as is. One thing to remember that "iconic" and "gaming history" don't necessarily mean the same thing. He didn't really explain all that well what "gaming history" means. Besides clearly not meaning "important to Nintendo" at least as a character option.

Bayonetta does carry gaming history given that she was already a thing since 2009. Sakurai never stated how long "gaming history" needs to be, just that it exists.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Honestly when it comes to Bandanna Dee I don't think think he has a shot. Without a doubt in my mind two kirby characters made the top ten in the ballot. I know the want it is out there. I know that Sakurai knows that people want more kirby characters but I don't think he sees any new rep bringing something new to Smash.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I have a sinking feeling that Bayonetta will end up coming back for Bayonetta 3. Though I'd expect Sonic or Pac-Man before her.

She better be rocking some serious braided pigtails!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sakurai is weird. He has all these made up rules that are "super vital" and need to be followed and then he throws them out the window all the time. Honestly, I think his rules are what are hurting Smash characters atm.

This also applies to the Pokemon dilemma, since Greninja was implemented into Smash 3DS / Wii U before it developed any kind of identity in the Pokemon TV series. Whereas, all the other playable Pokemon in Smash 3DS / Wii U developed some sort of identity before Smash 3DS / Wii U began development.

Anyway, the odds of getting a playable 7th generation Pokemon are rather small, but people seem to think that it will be Decidueye, all thanks to Pokken Tournament DX. However, Jigglypuff and Greninja are not Pokken Tournament contenders, so it seems rather doubtful that a Pokken Tournament contender will get the Smash Bros. promotion, unless it's already a Smash Bros. veteran.

But since there's no telling what the developers are thinking, and two months have passed since the teaser trailer was revealed, this topic is pretty much a dead horse now.

 

[Jubileus57]

Bayonetta does carry gaming history given that she was already a thing since 2009. Sakurai never stated how long "gaming history" is, just that it exists.

Well by that logic EVERY character has a gaming history... The thing with Bayonetta (aside from the Ballot) is that one shouldn't see her with the same eyes than the other 3rd parties since Nintendo FUNDS her unlike all the others. I see her more like another Shulk, both representing Nintendo niche and critically acclaimed series (really the sole difference is the one that OWN the franchise. Nintendo markets her like one of her own and brings the money to the table.)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Bayonetta does carry gaming history given that she was already a thing since 2009. Sakurai never stated how long "gaming history" is, just that it exists.

Yeah, no. She's actually a fairly niche character overall. She's nowhere near iconic compared to the rest of the 3rd party cast and had factors outside of a fairly insignificant gaming history going for her, mainly being realizable. And no, being around for more than 4 years doesn't really mean much. It's about making a rather notable splash in gaming history. Having an actual gaming impact. Bayonetta didn't have much at that point to really say anything about her. She was cool, and definitely was one of the better made characters, but she didn't really have a large impact and was still a fairly big unknown character. Not even her franchise was that recognizable. She had more promotion than anything else. A good comparison would be to Shovel Knight, who is in the same ballpark as her(highly promoted, niche, still a popular character), just as an Indie.

She's always been an exception to that rule.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Well by that logic EVERY character has a gaming history...

With the clear exception of new third party characters whose debut game has yet to release.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Goes without saying Bayonetta should get a moveset rework. With how much we moaned about it, I'd go as far as saying I'd expect one. Its almost like they tried too hard to stick her game onto her playstyle & moveset, and it just felt awkwardly-incompatible with Smash's gameplay in many respects. The most egregious one being her chain combos.

If Meta Knight's anything to go by, even a neutered Smash 4 Bayonetta would still feel alright.

 

[osby]

I think newcomer choises will heavily depend on how newcomers will fight this time. In Smash For we have:

Mechanically usual fighters: Lucina, Dark Pit, Greninja, Wii Fit Trainer, PAC-MAN and arguably Palutena and Mii Fighters
Mechanically unusual fighters: Rosalina&Luma, Little Mac, Robin, Ryu, Cloud, Corrin, Bayonetta, Shulk and Bowser Jr.
And Mega Man and Villager are somehow in-between, having no unique mechanics but being really weird (okay, that's subjective, I admit).

What I'm trying to say, at this point just "they don't use a sword" might won't be enough.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

This also applies to the Pokemon dilemma, since Greninja was implemented into Smash 3DS / Wii U before it developed any kind of identity in the Pokemon TV series. Whereas, all the other playable Pokemon in Smash 3DS / Wii U developed some sort of identity before Smash 3DS / Wii U began development.

Anyway, the odds of getting a playable 7th generation Pokemon are rather small, but people seem to think that it will be Decidueye, all thanks to Pokken Tournament DX. However, Jigglypuff and Greninja are not Pokken Tournament contenders, so it seems rather doubtful that a Pokken Tournament contender will get the Smash Bros. promotion, unless it's already a Smash Bros. veteran.

But since there's no telling what the developers are thinking, and two months have passed since the teaser trailer was revealed, this topic is pretty much a dead horse now.

Pokemon Tournament DX is hardly the reason people think the Grass Owl has a good chance. It has more to do with a potential unique moveset than anything else. Character is overstated a bit on likeliness, but few actually talk about Pokken like it's a relevant reason.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Yeah, no. She's actually a fairly niche character overall. She's nowhere near iconic compared to the rest of the 3rd party cast and had factors outside of a fairly insignificant gaming history going for her, mainly being realizable. And no, being around for more than 4 years doesn't really mean much. It's about making a rather notable splash in gaming history. Having an actual gaming impact. Bayonetta didn't have much at that point to really say anything about her. She was cool, and definitely was one of the better made characters, but she didn't really have a large impact and was still a fairly big unknown character. Not even her franchise was that recognizable. She had more promotion than anything else. A good comparison would be to Shovel Knight, who is in the same ballpark as her(highly promoted, niche, still a popular character), just as an Indie.

She's always been an exception to that rule.

How do you know that when Sakurai was talking about "gaming history" he was talking about impact or icon status? Be careful about making fan assumptions.

 

[Cosmic77]

Honestly when it comes to Bandanna Dee I don't think think he has a shot. Without a doubt in my mind two kirby characters made the top ten in the ballot. I know the want it is out there. I know that Sakurai knows that people want more kirby characters but I don't think he sees any new rep bringing something new to Smash.

Aside from being heavily-requested, recurring, and having an entire moveset practically laid out in Return to Dream Land and Star Allies, Bandana Dee would be the only spear fighter we'd have in Smash.

If Sakurai can't find anything going for Bandana Dee, either he's purposely avoiding him, or he's not looking very hard.

 

[PeridotGX]

So I made my prediction roster. I'm not 100% sold on it. No intentional cuts. Wario and Miis would NOT be there, I just forgot them the first time around and didn't want to move around most of the roster. White means unlockable.

Spoiler: Reasonings

Captian Toad: Constant appearances, his own side-game, a unique gimmick. He has a lot going for him.

Kamek: A bit of a risky pick, but I think he has a chance. We have yet to have a fully magic based fighter, and he's had constant roles in both the Mario and Yoshi series. While not a shoe-in, people don't give him enough credit.

Yarn Yoshi: A clone of Yoshi. Featherweight, but very speedy and fast.

Bandana Dee: A shoe in, the most likely Kirby character.

Galacta Knight: A Meta Knight clone. He's only missed one Kirby game since his debut, and has high popularity.

Isabelle: NOT a Villager clone. Uses stuff from AC that weren't represented, like Public Works Projects and Fishing.

Decidueye: A Grass Archer, two things that haven't been given full focus in Smash. I'm not 100% confident in him being who we get, but I think he's quite likely.

? Pokémon: I think Decidueye wont be the only additional Pokémon Rep. It could be a returning vet, another Gen 7 Pokémon, or even revisiting an older Pokémon from an old generation, but regardless I think we'll be getting 2 newcomers.

Celica: We've always gotten a new FE character. If that pattern were to change, It'd be in this game, but I don't think so. Basically "Pichu, but good". Uses Echoes design, not NES

Rex/Pyra: Unique Gimmick.

Takamaru: Token retro

Spring-Man: Unique Gimmick. I can imagine Nintendo would request him to represent the then upcoming ARMS

Octolings: Inkling Clones. Use unique versions of Inkling's moves. For instance, a Splat Bomb would be replaced by a fast but weak Burst Bomb, Roller with a multihit Inkbrush,etc.

Arcade Rabbit: The surprise character. He uses stuff from his game, such as the badges, his extreme personality, and various badge catchers.

Rayman: Ubisoft and Nintendo have had good relations, so it's quite possible.

Shovel Knight: Shovel Knight was published by Nintendo in Japan and has 4 amiibo. Decent indie rep.

Let me know how I did, please give constructive criticism. And for the ideal roster you could swap out Charizard for Marx and it's about right.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

How do you know that when Sakurai was talking about "gaming history" he was talking about impact or icon status? Be careful about making fan assumptions.

It was pretty damn clear when he talked about the actual characters being gaming icons over and over again, as well as their gaming impact. Except Bayonetta, notably.

Iconic status is definitely part of it and always was. Not that it means it's the only thing he takes into consideration, obviously.

 

[Jubileus57]

Aside from being heavily-requested, recurring, and having an entire moveset practically laid out in Return to Dream Land and Star Allies, Bandana Dee would be the only spear fighter we'd have in Smash.

If Sakurai can't find anything going for Bandana Dee, either he's purposely avoiding him, or he's not looking very hard.

I know it might be hard for him, but the man needs to understand that Kirby didn't stop with his departure from the series and that its new installment are beloved by many fans.

We want stages and characters from this now rather long Kirby era! (and P.R.O.G.R.A.M. in the soundtrack but that is another topic)

 

[osby]

I know it might be hard for him, but the man needs to understand that Kirby didn't stop with his departure from the series and that its new installment are beloved by many fans.

We want stages and characters from this now rather long Kirby era! (and P.R.O.G.R.A.M. in the soundtrack but that is another topic)

An Epic Yarn stage was planned for the last game so it's not like he purposefully avoids newer games.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

So I made my prediction roster. I'm not 100% sold on it. No intentional cuts. Wario and Miis would NOT be there, I just forgot them the first time around and didn't want to move around most of the roster. White means unlockable.
View attachment 144053

Spoiler: Reasonings

Captian Toad: Constant appearances, his own side-game, a unique gimmick. He has a lot going for him.

Kamek: A bit of a risky pick, but I think he has a chance. We have yet to have a fully magic based fighter, and he's had constant roles in both the Mario and Yoshi series. While not a shoe-in, people don't give him enough credit.

Yarn Yoshi: A clone of Yoshi. Featherweight, but very speedy and fast.

Bandana Dee: A shoe in, the most likely Kirby character.

Galacta Knight: A Meta Knight clone. He's only missed one Kirby game since his debut, and has high popularity.

Isabelle: NOT a Villager clone. Uses stuff from AC that weren't represented, like Public Works Projects and Fishing.

Decidueye: A Grass Archer, two things that haven't been given full focus in Smash. I'm not 100% confident in him being who we get, but I think he's quite likely.

? Pokémon: I think Decidueye wont be the only additional Pokémon Rep. It could be a returning vet, another Gen 7 Pokémon, or even revisiting an older Pokémon from an old generation, but regardless I think we'll be getting 2 newcomers.

Celica: We've always gotten a new FE character. If that pattern were to change, It'd be in this game, but I don't think so. Basically "Pichu, but good". Uses Echoes design, not NES

Rex/Pyra: Unique Gimmick.

Takamaru: Token retro

Spring-Man: Unique Gimmick. I can imagine Nintendo would request him to represent the then upcoming ARMS

Octolings: Inkling Clones. Use unique versions of Inkling's moves. For instance, a Splat Bomb would be replaced by a fast but weak Burst Bomb, Roller with a multihit Inkbrush,etc.

Arcade Rabbit: The surprise character. He uses stuff from his game, such as the badges, his extreme personality, and various badge catchers.

Rayman: Ubisoft and Nintendo have had good relations, so it's quite possible.

Shovel Knight: Shovel Knight was published by Nintendo in Japan and has 4 amiibo. Decent indie rep.

Let me know how I did, please give constructive criticism. And for the ideal roster you could swap out Charizard for Marx and it's about right.

Some interesting choices but not to much I'm against. I view Celcia the same way and I'm glad you thought about clones when making this.

However I have to point out that if this is a prediction roster, Kamek has no place on it. There's no reason to think Kamek is likely at all. If your reasoning is a magic user, Ashley is a way more likely and requested character who has been represented pretty well in smash already. Speaking of Wario why is he all the way down there lol.

 

[Cosmic77]

So I made my prediction roster. I'm not 100% sold on it. No intentional cuts. Wario and Miis would NOT be there, I just forgot them the first time around and didn't want to move around most of the roster. White means unlockable.
View attachment 144053

Spoiler: Reasonings

Captian Toad: Constant appearances, his own side-game, a unique gimmick. He has a lot going for him.

Kamek: A bit of a risky pick, but I think he has a chance. We have yet to have a fully magic based fighter, and he's had constant roles in both the Mario and Yoshi series. While not a shoe-in, people don't give him enough credit.

Yarn Yoshi: A clone of Yoshi. Featherweight, but very speedy and fast.

Bandana Dee: A shoe in, the most likely Kirby character.

Galacta Knight: A Meta Knight clone. He's only missed one Kirby game since his debut, and has high popularity.

Isabelle: NOT a Villager clone. Uses stuff from AC that weren't represented, like Public Works Projects and Fishing.

Decidueye: A Grass Archer, two things that haven't been given full focus in Smash. I'm not 100% confident in him being who we get, but I think he's quite likely.

? Pokémon: I think Decidueye wont be the only additional Pokémon Rep. It could be a returning vet, another Gen 7 Pokémon, or even revisiting an older Pokémon from an old generation, but regardless I think we'll be getting 2 newcomers.

Celica: We've always gotten a new FE character. If that pattern were to change, It'd be in this game, but I don't think so. Basically "Pichu, but good". Uses Echoes design, not NES

Rex/Pyra: Unique Gimmick.

Takamaru: Token retro

Spring-Man: Unique Gimmick. I can imagine Nintendo would request him to represent the then upcoming ARMS

Octolings: Inkling Clones. Use unique versions of Inkling's moves. For instance, a Splat Bomb would be replaced by a fast but weak Burst Bomb, Roller with a multihit Inkbrush,etc.

Arcade Rabbit: The surprise character. He uses stuff from his game, such as the badges, his extreme personality, and various badge catchers.

Rayman: Ubisoft and Nintendo have had good relations, so it's quite possible.

Shovel Knight: Shovel Knight was published by Nintendo in Japan and has 4 amiibo. Decent indie rep.

Let me know how I did, please give constructive criticism. And for the ideal roster you could swap out Charizard for Marx and it's about right.

...I know people say the number of reps doesn't matter, but geez! Seeing FE get seven characters when Zelda is still essentially stuck with the same core characters since Melee just doesn't sit well with me at all. There has to be SOMETHING from Zelda Sakurai sees Smash material in, right!?

Sorry. Overall, I'd say the roster is pretty good. It has a nice mix of newcomers spreading across various franchises.

Not so sure about Yarn Yoshi, Kamek, and Galacta Knight though.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It was pretty damn clear when he talked about the actual characters being gaming icons over and over again, as well as their gaming impact. Except Bayonetta, notably.

Iconic status is definitely part of it and always was. Not that it means it's the only thing he takes into consideration, obviously.

You mean at most one time after Pac-Man was revealed? With Cloud, he never mentioned his icon status as much as his popularity in terms of fan demand. Sakurai also considered and wanted Geno despite by you own argument being a character that "didn't carry gaming history". Whilst being iconic is an advantage, it's clearly not an important factor for Sakurai if he didn't think Geno was inappropriate (and he never mentioned Geno's lack of icon status)