Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DraginHikari]

It was definitely a mistake for Nintendo to get involved with the Philips CD-i, as it was literally a disaster waiting to happen.

Nintendo wasn't involved in the CD-I. It's actually even more hilarious because of some weird contract issue. Philips got the right to use the Nintendo properties for a short time even after the SNES add on was dropped. The whole thing was a colossal disaster on Nintendo's part.

It's a tale as old as time in this industry though, when a console holder gets on top they get cocky and arrogant. They think they can get away with anything until it comes back to bite them later.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Honestly people who aren't expecting cuts are gonna be really disappointed.

I'm still of the belief that we won't be getting cuts, smash 4 is just so recent that I don't see anyone leaving yet, and I very much believe that this will be a new game built on top of the old one rather than being built from the ground up and reusing some assets, it'd be a waste to kinda start from scratch after smash 4 was once again so recent

 

[MrReyes96]

Because most of the Characters left for Nintendo are C/D tiers.
Third Parties, even the Lowest we can think of are around S to B tiers characters.

Third Parties sells games and console by themselves and generate more hype.
C/D tiers Characters do not.

No need to be a genius to understand that Smash is a Console seller and Nintendo need more Star power in it. And Third Parties is where it is.

Smash was a console seller long before there was a hedgehog or robot boy in sight
Smash is a Nintendo fighting game first with third party guests that are iconic and important
This next smash can have a healthy amount of newcomers with just nintendo first party characters

 

[UserKev]

If you think that Crash Bandicoot and Spyro are from Sony and Nintendo and Sony are rivals, can anyone explain why their games (Crash Bandicoot and Spyro) appeared in Nintendo consoles?

Sonic and Mario have their rivalry in the beginning of 90's but this ended when Sega doesn't make consoles anymore.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

The franchises were passed through many contracts They started on Sony and are considered Sony mascots due to that but it doesn't mean it always has to be like that. Eventually, it ended up not really the case for them. Its just different for Kratos.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I'm not arguing against the merits of their inclusion as I don't really care for either of the three in one regards or the other as I have never played any of their games i so I have no stake in that matter. I was more pointing out the reason why the more recent generation may be unaware of impact of those characters in general.

Going back to Sonic for a moment as bad as some of his games had they still left some impact on the larger stage of gaming culture where many of Crash and Spyros releases kind of had this tendency to kind of fade into the background whether they were good or bad. Skylanders was successful no doubt funny thing was it was actually quite awhile before I even noticed Skylanders was connected to Spyro in any way.

Spyro was definitely used to get people's attention but yes they really dropped his name from it fast when the momentum gathered. Reminds me a lot of Rayman actually with the Rabbids...use an old icon to promote a new series then quickly dropped so they could keep their own identity

 

[Opossum]

I'm still of the belief that we won't be getting cuts, smash 4 is just so recent that I don't see anyone leaving yet, and I very much believe that this will be a new game built on top of the old one rather than being built from the ground up and reusing some assets, it'd be a waste to kinda start from scratch after smash 4 was once again so recent

Smash 4 was built from reused Brawl assets, and there were still quite a few cuts. It doesn't mean much in that regard.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Smash 4 was built from reused Brawl assets, and there were still quite a few cuts. It doesn't mean much in that regard.

It reused assets but it was still built from scratch with those assets. I'm thinking that this game will essentially be a port branded as a sequel, like I said smash 4 is so recent, there's no real need to start from scratch. Like I'm not expecting a dramatic visual change or completely redone animations like 4 had

 

[DraginHikari]

Spyro was definitely used to get people's attention but yes they really dropped his name from it fast when the momentum gathered. Reminds me a lot of Rayman actually with the Rabbids...use an old icon to promote a new series then quickly dropped so they could keep their own identity

This generally happens when a property can become popular enough on it's own merits that it no longer needs the baggage of being associated with an game brand it has little connection to. This is what generally separates successful spin offs from the mountains of failed ones.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

BoTW Link means new/updated models for everyone and thus characters won't just be straight up ported.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

BoTW Link means new/updated models for everyone and thus characters won't just be straight up ported.

New models doesn't mean they can't reuse animations, also that's not a guarantee everyone is getting new models anyway, they could just change some to match newer games and keep characters who don't need updating the same or give them slight improvements

 

[MopedOfJustice]

BoTW Link means new/updated models for everyone and thus characters won't just be straight up ported.

That's not a valid inference. One altered model proves nothing, especially not that. It would be obscenely wasteful of them to redo the good models they made for Smash 4 (e.g. Megaman). Also, since the Switch isn't actually quite as powerful as the Wii U and has the same resolution, there's really no reason to change anything except some of the holdovers from Brawl.
Edit: And obviously updates like Link's, but I don't know of any vets outside of LoZ that have a good basis for something like that.

 

[Roberto zampari]

What kind of moves BotW Link must have from the previous Link?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

What kind of moves BotW Link must have from the previous Link?

I expect he'll get a new side special, grab and the new bombs but that's about it. Also link is right handed now so I guess that has to change so I guess new animations, or they could somehow pull a twilight princess and mirror them

 

[MopedOfJustice]

I expect he'll get a new side special, grab and the new bombs but that's about it. Also link is right handed now so I guess that has to change so I guess new animations, or they could somehow pull a twilight princess and mirror them

Considering that he actually turns around unlike, say Mario, it's 100% the case that they'll just have it be mirrored since it doesn't impact anything anyway.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

This generally happens when a property can become popular enough on it's own merits that it no longer needs the baggage of being associated with an game brand it has little connection to. This is what generally separates successful spin offs from the mountains of failed ones.

The problem with Skylanders and Rabbids, is that they then held the original characters hostage.

After all, why make a platformer when a minigame collection/TTL Beat-em-up is selling so much better?

It makes business sense but it also breeds resentment.

 

[DarkShadow20]

I'm still of the belief that we won't be getting cuts, smash 4 is just so recent that I don't see anyone leaving yet, and I very much believe that this will be a new game built on top of the old one rather than being built from the ground up and reusing some assets, it'd be a waste to kinda start from scratch after smash 4 was once again so recent

The only "cuts" I'm expecting are Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, and Mii's. But the first three can just be alt costumes like originally intended. I think there will be a lot more alt costumes in this game. Mii's could still return, but due to the way they work, maybe they would have their own custom mode or something.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The only "cuts" I'm expecting are Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, and Mii's. But the first three can just be alt costumes like originally intended. I think there will be a lot more alt costumes in this game. Mii's could still return, but due to the way they work, maybe they would have their own custom mode or something.

There's literally no reason to make them alts again and take away their differences, they take no time at all they might as well keep them. If anything I'm expecting them to get decloned ala Falco and Ganondorf

 

[T-Hell]

Question arises, if this year's E3 is headlinign both Pokemon and Smash Bros... what are they gonna do next year? Animal Crossing?

Nah, Animal Crossing is gonna be in this year's E3 as well, just watch.

 

[osby]

The only "cuts" I'm expecting are Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, Lucina, and Mii's. But the first three can just be alt costumes like originally intended. I think there will be a lot more alt costumes in this game. Mii's could still return, but due to the way they work, maybe they would have their own custom mode or something.

I don't expect very much alt costumes. Sakurai values characters' individuality too much to put bunch of characters with the same everything under one name.

 

[Antimatter042]

Smash was a console seller long before there was a hedgehog or robot boy in sight
Smash is a Nintendo fighting game first with third party guests that are iconic and important
This next smash can have a healthy amount of newcomers with just nintendo first party characters

Yeah, Smash shifted consoles without 3rd Parties in 2001. Brawl probably could have survived without Snake and Sonic in 2008, but those two generated a lot of its marketing buzz and Smash 4 was similar, especially into its DLC. However, even though I don't think we're really scraping the bottom of the barrel on the Nintendo front like some, I do think this game needs a couple of new 3rd Parties to get some hype around it. The baseline for what the general public expects of a new Smash game has definitely moved.

 

[DarkShadow20]

There's literally no reason to make them alts again and take away their differences, they take no time at all they might as well keep them. If anything I'm expecting them to get decloned ala Falco and Ganondorf

They could still have differences, but just not take up a slot on the select screen.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I do agree that most of the all-stars are in, there's still a lot of Nintendo characters to draw from.

1. Mario's B-cast
2. Donkey Kong's supportign cast and villains
3. Zelda's non-triforce weilders
4. Metroid's other hunters (and the dragon)
5. The whole Post-Sakurai Kirby era
6. The Star Fox/Wolf crews
7. 10,000+ Pokemon
8. F-Zero Racers
9. Non-MC Mother characters (and Ninten)
10. Oh Lord, more Fire Emblem Lords
11. The residents of Smashville
12. Other tiny Explorers

And so on, so forth.

 

[domriver]

So it MAY seem this leak may have some legitimacy? Crash , Spyro, and Toad are not IMO hype worthy for an E3. Plus EVEN if this is true. These are NOT the only newcomers for this new Smash. 3 Newcomers for an E3 i just don't know. Nintendo wants to blow people away and get people hyped debut, King K Rool, Ridley, Geno or any other highly requested character that people have been waiting for. Crash, Spyro and Toad seem to me that they should be displayed a-la Pacman style. June 12th cant come faster. LOL

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think Bomberman would generate hype for Smash fans.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

They could still have differences, but just not take up a slot on the select screen.

That would just make things unnecessarily confusing for casual players, besides it's not like "slots" matter

 

[osby]

They could still have differences, but just not take up a slot on the select screen.

If they have differences, they'll have their own slot, simple as that. It's not like there is a limit on individual slot number.

 

[DarkShadow20]

That would just make things unnecessarily confusing for casual players, besides it's not like "slots" matter

Well, they kinda do.

If I had those three on my roster, I'd have to cut Hades, Black Knight, and Waluigi or else it would look weird and unbalanced. Then again, SSB Wii U's select screen looked that way so who knows? But every game since Melee has had cuts, so unless you're expecting a deluxe port, we'll probably get some cuts. And those three are probably the least important because they were originally intended as alts.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Well, they kinda do.

If I had those three on my roster, I'd have to cut Hades, Black Knight, and Waluigi or else it would look weird and unbalanced. Then again, SSB Wii U's select screen looked that way so who knows? But every game since Melee has had cuts, so unless you're expecting a deluxe port, we'll probably get some cuts. And those three are probably the least important because they were originally intended as alts.

I seriously doubt sakurai thinks about the roster layout when deciding how many characters should be in the game, it really doesn't matter

 

[Pazzo.]

Tangentally related: I don't think Animal Crossong will be shown.

Unless there's another Animal Crossing team, the current one has been working on Splatoon.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Well, they kinda do.

If I had those three on my roster, I'd have to cut Hades, Black Knight, and Waluigi or else it would look weird and unbalanced. Then again, SSB Wii U's select screen looked that way so who knows? But every game since Melee has had cuts, so unless you're expecting a deluxe port, we'll probably get some cuts. And those three are probably the least important because they were originally intended as alts.

Just because they would look weird on your particular roster means nothing. Sm4sh's CSS was a hodgepodge mess, and it turned out fine.

Sakurai specifically stated that if characters have a difference, they will be a separate character. They'll find a way to make the CSS look okay.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Tangentally related: I don't think Animal Crossong will be shown.

Unless there's another Animal Crossing team, the current one has been working on Splatoon.

Nintendo EAD, the team that made New Leaf and the first splatoon didn't make splatoon 2, nintendo EPD did

development group 2 of EAD actually haven't made anything since happy home designer

 

[DarkShadow20]

Just because they would look weird on your particular roster means nothing. Sm4sh's CSS was a hodgepodge mess, and it turned out fine.

Sakurai specifically stated that if characters have a difference, they will be a separate character. They'll find a way to make the CSS look okay.

Yes, I mentioned that. The layout for Smash 4's roster was a disaster lol. True, but he's stated a lot of things in the past then changed his mind. My main point is, if we get any cuts, those three would be my best guess.

 

[YoshiandToad]

So it MAY seem this leak may have some legitimacy? Crash , Spyro, and Toad are not IMO hype worthy for an E3. Plus EVEN if this is true. These are NOT the only newcomers for this new Smash. 3 Newcomers for an E3 i just don't know. Nintendo wants to blow people away and get people hyped debut, King K Rool, Ridley, Geno or any other highly requested character that people have been waiting for. Crash, Spyro and Toad seem to me that they should be displayed a-la Pacman style. June 12th cant come faster. LOL

Crash and Spyro are pretty big deals thanks to the recent game releases, 90s kids remembering them and Skylanders.
Meanwhile Captain Toad was a pretty big hit on the last console who only got a spinoff game due to fan demand for it in the first place. They'd be plenty hype for some people, even if they don't appeal to Smashboards typical speculator.

Also all three are generally more well recongised than the three you mentioned even if Smashboards may make you think otherwise.

 

[SlickWylde]

BoTW Link means new/updated models for everyone and thus characters won't just be straight up ported.

I'd be careful with statements like this. Just because a character gets an updated model, that doesn't mean all characters will.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Nintendo EAD, the team that made New Leaf and the first splatoon didn't make splatoon 2, nintendo EPD did

development group 2 of EAD actually haven't made anything since happy home designer

Wonder what's up with that.
Think they were working on Animal Crossing HD and hit some roadblocks? And then the models ended up making the dullest party game ever?

 

[dream1ng]

Nintendo EAD, the team that made New Leaf and the first splatoon didn't make splatoon 2, nintendo EPD did

development group 2 of EAD actually haven't made anything since happy home designer

Nintendo EAD and SPD were merged into EPD a few years ago. EAD is no more; but the team is likely the same.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Nintendo EAD and SPD were merged into EPD a few years ago. EAD is no more; but the team is likely the same.

My bad then lol, although EPD made splatoon 2 and arms simultaneously, I don't see why they couldn't get to work on AC right after Arms came out, plus it'd be a shame for all those amiibo festival assets to go to waste

 

[Deleted member]

Honestly people who aren't expecting cuts are gonna be really disappointed.

Ehhh... We will see.
I have high hopes for everyone in Smash Bros 4, even the clones.
I will understand if there are cuts, though. I am hoping for no cuts, but you could be right.

Man, I hate this leak.
Crash and Spyro are an awful idea.
They have very little to do with Nintendo, and their legacy is small compared to the third parties in the game. Ryu is fighting game man, Cloud is Final Fantasy/JRPG guy, Sonic and Pac-Man are Sonic and Pac-Man, the others have very strong ties to Nintendo.

In some interviews Sakurai stated that he doesn't want to arbitrarily increase the third party numbers. They must be very big, or have strong reasons to be in the game. I can't see Crash and Spyro meeting those requirements.

I hate how there's so much hate for Nintendo franchises getting "overrepped" but so many people still want more third party characters. It's like the game being about Nintendo doesn't matter anymore.

Spyro is defiently not making it in, as I heard his games did not sell well in Japan.
Opossum made a good point.
Crash is a megaton character who was one of the two icons of the "Nintendo vs Sony" war.
Crash does have kind of a high legacy. He was one of the earliest games to define Playstation.
I know Crash Bandicoot is not from Sony, but his game was very popular with Playstation I heard.

 

[-crump-]

Wonder what's up with that.
Think they were working on Animal Crossing HD and hit some roadblocks? And then the models ended up making the dullest party game ever?

My personal theory is that they were working on a full AC game, but upper management knew the Wii U was a dead end and told them to hold off on the new game and just use the HD assets to capitalize on the amiibo hype.

I still refuse to believe those beautiful HD models and landscapes were created just to throw into a ****ty cashgrab of a Mario Party. That game had “last minute” written all over it.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Hey, I got a thing!

How many Newcomers do you think will be shown at E3?

I’m thinking 5 is a good number, especially if the game is releasing this year. 3 in the presentation. 2 in the Treehouse.

What do you guys think?