Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[DraginHikari]

If I recall, Nintendo and Sony were originally going to be allies, but a rivalry brewed when Nintendo wanted to stick with game cartridges for the N64, while Sony wanted to utilize compact discs.

Cloud's inclusion into Smash 3DS / Wii U could mean hope for Crash and/or Spyro, since like Cloud, they too debuted on the Sony PlayStation.

The story is a actually quite a bit different and actually oddly dramatic. Sony was originally developing a CD add on for the Super Nintendo similar to Sega's Sega CD but for some reason Nintendo went behind Sony's back and also partnered with Philips to develop the same CD add on before publicly humiliating Sony on the matter when they announced their partnership with Philips at a particular electronics show without Sony being aware of it. This whole affair is why the Philips CD-I Zelda and Mario games exist as they do. The Super NES Add on was eventually dropped and Sony used what they had learned during that project to create the PlayStation.

I'm probably missing some details but that's the summary version.

 

[CroonerMike]

Oh yeah because Sonic/Snake/Pac-Man/MegaMan/Cloud/Ryu/Rayman/Phoenix Wright/Layton/Sora/Lara-Croft/Agumon/Dante/any FF character/ Most of Capcom / Sonic characters are C/D tiers

Yeah. I'm sure Eggman or Phoenix Wright isn't as famous as Ridley/ K.Rool/Isaac and Chibi-Robot.

Nice you job, you named quite a few C/D tiers: Phoenix Wright, Layton, Laura Croft, AGUMON LOL (come on kid), and Dante. Most final fantasy characters are c/d except cloud and his gang. Ryu and Megaman are extremely popular characters but doesn't mean every character from their company are.

 

[Rockaphin]

I'm not seeing Spyro making it into Smash if the base roster was truly decided a few years ago. Even now, I'm still skeptical about Crash Bandicoot, but what do I know.

I'm not believing the "leak" yet. But this makes me realize how much I hope we don't get slammed with a lot of 3rd party characters. I don't mind third parties too much, but I personally enjoy the Nintendo side of the game and think the game shouldn't stray too far from the idea of a Nintendo All-Star fighting game.

 

[Opossum]

Nice you job, you named quite a few C/D tiers: Phoenix Wright, Layton, Laura Croft, AGUMON LOL (come on kid), and Dante. Most final fantasy characters are c/d except cloud and his gang. Ryu and Megaman are extremely popular characters but doesn't mean every character from their company are.

The fact that you think Lara Croft is a C-tier character kinda shows you're not a very good judge of this sort of thing, honestly.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The fact that you think Lara Croft is a C-tier character kinda shows you're not a very good judge of this sort of thing, honestly.

I remember when Pac-Man was treated
as a minor character by the speculative community.

 

[Cosmic77]

Regardless of how iconic certain third-parties are in comparison to Nintendo characters, Smash is still supposed to be a collaboration of characters from Nintendo games, not third-party games.

Instead of arguing why "X" third-party character is more important than "Y" Nintendo character, we should be comparing Nintendo characters with fellow Nintendo characters and third-parties with third-parties.

 

[Bebe Mignon]

Here's a shoo-in character for Super Smash Bros. 7.

 

[Polan]

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/189706-nintendo-switch/76571076?page=19

Hey guys, just woke up after getting some much needed sleep and my mind is a lot clearer than it was last night.

And I want to come clean about a few things.

This leak is based heavily on a pre-existing 4chan post that was made a few days ago, and that was not me. I’ve been claiming to be the guy who posted that on 4chan because I wanted to incentivize further discussion about this. I did make a similar topic about this on the Smash Switch boards, and had it deleted because I was being a ******* and endangered the job of my friend.

I do have a contact, but it is not a guy from Nintendo and they’ve only been able to verify a few things. Not gonna say what because it could be a way to identify who he is. I’m not trying to trick people with this post and I admit I was very cocky with my title. I regret wording it as such.

Let me preface my next words by saying, I’m not trying to set myself up for a “well I didn’t believe it either so I’m still right” situation. If Nintendo doesn’t reveal anything on May 7th I’m gonna believe this is false, no questions asked.

Reading what you guys are saying, I am beginning to doubt this info myself. CloudStrife was being a bit stubborn last night but he brings up a really good point about how Lustrous and Daybreak are literally the first synonyms for Radiant and Dawn on the thesaurus, among other contradictions you guys brought up.

I’m sorry for lying about my connection to this post and I will never do something like this again.

Don't believe everything you read.

doesn't really disprove anything though. he's stating that he copied the leak from 4chan, not that he made it up. yeah he doubted it but that was before nintendo revealed the online at the time the leak claimed they would. and he's only apologizing and trying to back off because his brother got doxxed after he handed out his information to anyone asking for a source. basically, if the leak is real, then we're looking at Mother****ing Leaker 2.0: an insincere asshole with some actual real information.

What kind of idiot would promise to eat a shoe?

this idiot right here

Spoiler

it's gonna be good

 

[Roberto zampari]

I'll explain to you how many characters were introducted in Smash Bros series:

Melee: 14 newcomers
Brawl: 13 newcomers
3DS / Wii U: 12 newcomers + 7 DLC

I believe that Smash Bros for Switch will have less newcomers, i mean, 10 or 11 newcomers, i think...

 

[CroonerMike]

The fact that you think Lara Croft is a C-tier character kinda shows you're not a very good judge of this sort of thing, honestly.

I mean, it's all opinion based but hey! I guess Agumon is definitely a A lister huh? Holy for smash if that's the case, I find him to be an A lister too.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'll explain to you how many characters were introducted in Smash Bros series:

Melee: 14 newcomers
Brawl: 13 newcomers
3DS / Wii U: 12 newcomers + 7 DLC

I believe that Smash Bros for Switch will have less newcomers, i mean, 10 or 11 newcomers, i think...

Brawl had more than that. Even if you count PT as 1 character(Sakurai counts them as 3), you still have 16. It's 18 more with how Sakurai views it.

3DS/Wii U technically has 21 overall, 19 if you don't count the 3 Mii Fighters separately, so that one's accurate, kind of.

There is no real consistent patterns. Plus, Brawl was the first game to have characters cut.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'll explain to you how many characters were introducted in Smash Bros series:

Melee: 14 newcomers
Brawl: 13 newcomers
3DS / Wii U: 12 newcomers + 7 DLC

I believe that Smash Bros for Switch will have less newcomers, i mean, 10 or 11 newcomers, i think...

Brawl had 18 newcomers and Smash 4 had 17 not including DLC.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Trying to think of how long it takes to make a new character...

Melee had 14 newcomers, but technically you could say only 8, since the clones were pretty "easier" to make than one whole new character (I need a source for that, but if I recall correctly, apparently Sakurai hesitated between adding King DeDeDe or grossing the number with the six Stormtroopers).

18 for Brawl, 17 without Sonic (if he was not added last minute). And that's not mentioning Ganondorf and Falco receiving rework to appear less as clones.
3DS/WIIU had 15 + Lucina + Dark Pit + Dr Mario, not counting the DLC.
I speculate that it takes the Development Team around a year to make 8 new characters if there is no incident or technical issues.

10 is a roundish number that I can believe in for Switch.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Thanks for correct me...

I know that Dark Pit and Dr. Mario are clones but why Lucina?

10 is a roundish number that I can believe in for Switch.

Why??

 

[True Blue Warrior]

People are way too cynical in their predictions concerning the amount of newcomers we will get. We know that this game was already in development since 2016 and you mean to tell me we will end up with far less newcomers than Brawl and Smash 4?

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Thanks for correct me...

I know that Dark Pit and Dr. Mario are clones but why Lucina?


Why??

She is a clone too, I don't recall if as much as Dr Mario and Dark Pit, but a clone nonetheless.
Sakurai added Dark Pit, Dr. Mario and Lucina as bonus.

People are way too cynical in their predictions concerning the amount of newcomers we will get. We know that this game was already in development since 2016 and you mean to tell me we will end up with far less newcomers than Brawl and Smash 4?

We already had fewer newcomers from Brawl to Smash 4, without counting the 3 clones.
Maybe we'll still get 15 new characters, but I prefer to not expect too much.

 

[Roberto zampari]

People are way too cynical in their predictions concerning the amount of newcomers we will get. We know that this game was already in development since 2016 and you mean to tell me we will end up with far less newcomers than Brawl and Smash 4?

Do you think that Sakurai will put +50 characters in 2 years?

 

[Munomario777]

Whether or not we get a ton of newcomers, I reckon the optimal choice is to expect a lower amount. Then there's no disappointment if it comes true, and if there really ARE tons of new characters, then it's a pleasant surprise!

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Do you think that Sakurai will put +50 characters in 2 years?

He didn't say that though.

 

[YoshiandToad]

I mean, it's all opinion based but hey! I guess Agumon is definitely a A lister huh? Holy for smash if that's the case, I find him to be an A lister too.

Saying Lara Croft is a no one is a bit like saying Sonic is a no one.

Actually tbh judging by people's reactions to Crash and Spyro's inclusion here makes me realise just how young most the community is. These guys were all massive names back in the hayday and all three(Crash, Spyro and Lara) are great inclusions for a similar mascot rivalry to Nintendo that Sega had once upon a time.

Mind you I just want them because it's frankly hilarious how this will end up as the true PlayStation All Stars game if they all get in and Cloud returns.

 

[osby]

People are way too cynical in their predictions concerning the amount of newcomers we will get. We know that this game was already in development since 2016 and you mean to tell me we will end up with far less newcomers than Brawl and Smash 4?

Extra work for veterans are increasing with each installment: Balancing, reworking effects/animations/models, adding/cutting moves etc.

It's not like there are only newcomers to work on.

 

[Roberto zampari]

Extra work for veterans are increasing with each installment: Balancing, reworking effects/animations/models, adding/cutting moves etc.

Let me see if I understood...

Veterans take less time while newcomers take a lot of time.
Am i right?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

People really acting like Lara Croft isn't one of the most iconic characters in pop culture in general, not just the gaming community smdh...

 

[DraginHikari]

Saying Lara Croft is a no one is a bit like saying Sonic is a no one.

Actually tbh judging by people's reactions to Crash and Spyro's inclusion here makes me realise just how young most the community is. These guys were all massive names back in the hayday and all three(Crash, Spyro and Lara) are great inclusions for a similar mascot rivalry to Nintendo that Sega had once upon a time.

Mind you I just want them because it's frankly hilarious how this will end up as the true PlayStation All Stars game if they all get in and Cloud returns.

This is mostly caused by the fact that all three characters kind of had a period where they were kind of in the background not doing very much so they didn't transition between generations the same way Sonic did.

 

[osby]

Let me see if I understood...

Veterans take less time while newcomers take a lot of time.
Am i right?

Yes.

 

[SlickWylde]

doesn't really disprove anything though. he's stating that he copied the leak from 4chan, not that he made it up. yeah he doubted it but that was before nintendo revealed the online at the time the leak claimed they would. and he's only apologizing and trying to back off because his brother got doxxed after he handed out his information to anyone asking for a source. basically, if the leak is real, then we're looking at Mother****ing Leaker 2.0: an insincere ******* with some actual real information.


this idiot right here

Spoiler

it's gonna be good

Oh you did? (Can't tell if "This idiot" is referring to me or you) because I did as well. I like to think of myself as the progenitor of shoe eating on SmashBoards lol.

Edit: Ignore my comment about a leak, it's been confirmed fake by the author.

 

[YoshiandToad]

This is mostly caused by the fact that all three characters kind of had a period where they were kind of in the background not doing very much so they didn't transition between generations the same way Sonic did.

I mean fair, but this exact same thing happened with Pac-Man last time. For some reason people thought Pac-Man, literally the most famous video game character in the entire world(OK, he may be joint with Mario) wasn't a big enough name to warrant inclusion. Pac-Man was a bigger deal to video games than Megaman ever was, but this idea was deemed laughable for some bizarre reason.

Lara, Spyro and Crash aren't as laughable as many think; Crash was literally everywhere during the intense Nintendo and Sony rivalry period, Spyro could arguably be the face of the Toys to Life phenomenon that occurred last generation and gave birth to the creatiom of Amiibos, one of Nintendo's bigger successes during the Wii U period and Lara was a cultural phenomenon.

 

[MrReyes96]

I’m going to bet this game gets the most newcomers
I’m going based on the pattern of added newcomers and the fact that the switch is early in its lifespan and if it lasts as long as the 3DS it could be around for the next 8 years. I doubt we’d get another smash on switch.
This could also be Sakurai’s last smash and he’s probably like to go out with a bang while he makes more great original games like kid Icarus uprising

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Extra work for veterans are increasing with each installment: Balancing, reworking effects/animations/models, adding/cutting moves etc.

It's not like there are only newcomers to work on.

This assumes all veterans are coming back and that there won't be a very significant amount of cuts.

 

[Roberto zampari]

This assumes all veterans are coming back and that there won't be a very significant amount of cuts.

Why "won't be a very significant amount of cuts"?

 

[osby]

This assumes all veterans are coming back and that there won't be a very significant amount of cuts.

I doubt a significant amount (as in, more cuts than any previous games) of character won't be returning. There is only one game to work on, unlike Brawl and For Wii U/3DS. I don't have concrete information but I also don't see a reason for any non last minute time constraints to prevent more than six veterans, and even than, they'll probably contain model swap characters which are not much work to begin with.

Also about Melee, Sakurai commented on cuts, mentioning cutting a few characters like Jigglypuff and Luigi won't help to add a newcomer.

Shortly, 50+ characters is a lot of work and substracting half a dozen or so is not going to make it easy.

 

[DraginHikari]

I mean fair, but this exact same thing happened with Pac-Man last time. For some reason people thought Pac-Man, literally the most famous video game character in the entire world(OK, he may be joint with Mario) wasn't a big enough name to warrant inclusion. Pac-Man was a bigger deal to video games than Megaman ever was, but this idea was deemed laughable for some bizarre reason.

Lara, Spyro and Crash aren't as laughable as many think; Crash was literally everywhere during the intense Nintendo and Sony rivalry period, Spyro could arguably be the face of the Toys to Life phenomenon that occurred last generation and gave birth to the creatiom of Amiibos, one of Nintendo's bigger successes during the Wii U period and Lara was a cultural phenomenon.

I'm not arguing against the merits of their inclusion as I don't really care for either of the three in one regards or the other as I have never played any of their games i so I have no stake in that matter. I was more pointing out the reason why the more recent generation may be unaware of impact of those characters in general.

Going back to Sonic for a moment as bad as some of his games had they still left some impact on the larger stage of gaming culture where many of Crash and Spyros releases kind of had this tendency to kind of fade into the background whether they were good or bad. Skylanders was successful no doubt funny thing was it was actually quite awhile before I even noticed Skylanders was connected to Spyro in any way.

 

[Roberto zampari]

If you think that Crash Bandicoot and Spyro are from Sony and Nintendo and Sony are rivals, can anyone explain why their games (Crash Bandicoot and Spyro) appeared in Nintendo consoles?

Sonic and Mario have their rivalry in the beginning of 90's but this ended when Sega doesn't make consoles anymore.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Opossum]

Honestly people who aren't expecting cuts are gonna be really disappointed.

 

[DraginHikari]

If you think that Crash Bandicoot and Spyro are from Sony and Nintendo and Sony are rivals, can anyone explain why their games (Crash Bandicoot and Spyro) appeared in Nintendo consoles?

Sonic and Mario have their rivalry moments but this ended when Sega doesn't make consoles anymore.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Because the IPs for Crash and Spyro are currently held by Activision and not Sony. Those two franchises IPs have been passed to a number of different companies over the years.

 

[TumblrFamous]

If you think that Crash Bandicoot and Spyro are from Sony and Nintendo and Sony are rivals, can anyone explain why their games (Crash Bandicoot and Spyro) appeared in Nintendo consoles?

Sonic and Mario have their rivalry in the beginning of 90's but this ended when Sega doesn't make consoles anymore.

Correct me if i'm wrong.

Companies simply do that. There's not a lot to be said about that.

Honestly people who aren't expecting cuts are gonna be really disappointed.

I'm hoping there aren't cuts. I feel without two consoles it may be better but we'll probably see cuts again.

However, I have no clue who'd they cut this time (maybe the straight-up clones if they're low priority? I don't know)

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The story is a actually quite a bit different and actually oddly dramatic. Sony was originally developing a CD add on for the Super Nintendo similar to Sega's Sega CD but for some reason Nintendo went behind Sony's back and also partnered with Philips to develop the same CD add on before publicly humiliating Sony on the matter when they announced their partnership with Philips at a particular electronics show without Sony being aware of it. This whole affair is why the Philips CD-I Zelda and Mario games exist as they do. The Super NES Add on was eventually dropped and Sony used what they had learned during that project to create the PlayStation.

I'm probably missing some details but that's the summary version.

It was definitely a mistake for Nintendo to get involved with the Philips CD-i, as it was literally a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[MrReyes96]

Honestly people who aren't expecting cuts are gonna be really disappointed.

I can’t see any reason why there’s be many or any cuts
Ice climbers aren’t limited by the 3DS, Wolf has star fox zero relevancy so they’re looking good to return
And the clones in 4 are so easy to implement I don’t see why they just wouldn’t bother

 

[monadoboy]

No need to be a genius to understand that Smash is a Console seller and Nintendo need more Star power in it. And Third Parties is where it is.

Don't like the idea of sacrificing what the game used to be for sales. Reminds me of Fates. Awakening did good, and is a great game, but most of the flaws in Fates are there because they tried to do the same things that Awakening did, to the point that it weakened the plot incredibly.

If they really wanted selling power, they'd add Goku. And what does it matter if the game already sold its soul for cash?

 

[Roberto zampari]

Don't like the idea of sacrificing what the game used to be for sales. Reminds me of Fates. Awakening did good, and is a great game, but most of the flaws in Fates are there because they tried to do the same things that Awakening did, to the point that it weakened the plot incredibly.

What's your point?