Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

[Freduardo]

I didn't know he was in super star. What did he do in that game?

The megaton punch game.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

I didn't know he was in super star. What did he do in that game?

He's the first opponent in megaton punch, it's a small role but a role regardless, and then in superstar ultra he's a boss, but he's basically a joke boss who can be defeated in one hit and attacks only by jumping lol.

 

[YoshiandToad]

goombario confirmed

Ah, dammit I was rooting for Goombella

 

[Gumzilla]

I think the reason Rosalina & Luma are in Sm4sh but Ice Climbers aren't is because Luma is smaller than Rosalina so that's less strain on the 3DS and also he can't grab so that could also help reduce strain.

 

[SvartWolf]

i think people expecting up to 12 characters are getting their hopes up too much but if this ends being a smash sequel/expansion of the wiiu one, i expect a second wave of dlc incoming at least :0...

Still.. im wondering if we are getting an enhanched wiiu versio with a sequel to subsspace emmisary, or something like that? probably would be the perfect smash game, and seems doable in a 2 years framework

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I think the reason Rosalina & Luma are in Sm4sh but Ice Climbers aren't is because Luma is smaller than Rosalina so that's less strain on the 3DS and also he can't grab so that could also help reduce strain.

Luma isn't an AI like Nana. That's why Rosalina and Luna works and Ice Climbers don't.

 

[NintendoKnight]

I think the reason Rosalina & Luma are in Sm4sh but Ice Climbers aren't is because Luma is smaller than Rosalina so that's less strain on the 3DS and also he can't grab so that could also help reduce strain.

Luma isn't a player-based AI like Nana. Programming-wise the climbers are two characters controlled by a single person (or more specifically: a single character with an AI partner that is programmed to mimic the player's actions with a split second of delay). Rosalina is a single character with a proxy attachment.

Nana will attack other players on her own or try to recover back to the stage if the AI deems it necessary, whereas Luma never acts unless commanded to by the player.

3DS could handle Luma fine, but it was not because of his small size. 3DS couldn't handle climbers because it was essentially replicating 8-player Smash it order to have 4 sets of climbers on one screen at a time.

Edit: 'd

 

[Llort A. Ton]

I think the reason Rosalina & Luma are in Sm4sh but Ice Climbers aren't is because Luma is smaller than Rosalina so that's less strain on the 3DS and also he can't grab so that could also help reduce strain.

Luma is not an AI (computer player). Luma's actionas are solely based on what button inputs you do. Nana, on the other hand, is an AI. She can grab enemis, items, make decisions to win like decide when to attack, when not to attack, when to move back towards the stage etc. The AI controlling Nana tells her to do her best at being in sync with Popo, and she does follow Popo and make attacks based on when the player attacks, but we can see that sometimes she does her own thing. Luma only punches/attacks when the player hits the attack button. We can also see that Luma makes no effort to go back to the stage, and will die easily after sent over a pit. There is no AI that helps Luma adapt to battle or make decisions. Thats why Rosalina & Luma are called "puppet fighters". So yes, there was 3DS strain, but size has nothing to do with it.

Edit- DOUBLE 'd!!

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

This place is an echo chamber that inflates people's thoughts about characters. This happens every speculation period. People build up hype, expect characters, they dont get in, and then they get disappointed.

Well, obviously we'll keep expecting characters that we want to see, and notice elements towards their inclusion that do'nt evne exist to begin with. I'll keep expecting the four horsemen Ridley/K.Rool/Bandana Dee/Waluigi until the end of times!

By the way guys, without necessarily mentioning anyone, of those four characters aforementioned, how many do you think will finally make it as playable this time?

I will say two.

 

[Gumzilla]

Luma isn't an AI like Nana. That's why Rosalina and Luna works and Ice Climbers don't.

Oh I didn't know that.

 

[osby]

i think people expecting up to 12 characters are getting their hopes up too much but if this ends being a smash sequel/expansion of the wiiu one, i expect a second wave of dlc incoming at least :0...

Still.. im wondering if we are getting an enhanched wiiu versio with a sequel to subsspace emmisary, or something like that? probably would be the perfect smash game, and seems doable in a 2 years framework

As much as I love Subspace Emissary, it's extremely unlikely to repeat. Unless they get help from another studio. Brawlwas essentially two games marketed as one and it really prevented more characters getting in and balancing the game.

By the way guys, without necessarily mentioning anyone, of those four characters aforementioned, how many do you think will finally make it as playable this time?

I will say two.

I'll be optimistic and say one.

 

[Cosmic77]

By the way guys, without necessarily mentioning anyone, of those four characters aforementioned, how many do you think will finally make it as playable this time?

I will say two.

I'll say one, and that's me being incredibly optimistic.

(Edit)

I'll be optimistic and say one.

'd?

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Well, obviously we'll keep expecting characters that we want to see, and notice elements towards their inclusion that do'nt evne exist to begin with. I'll keep expecting the four horsemen Ridley/K.Rool/Bandana Dee/Waluigi until the end of times!

By the way guys, without necessarily mentioning anyone, of those four characters aforementioned, how many do you think will finally make it as playable this time?

I will say two.

I think there is merit for all 4, but I'm usually wrong with these, so... two.

 

[Roberk]

Can we ever expect even a chance of a non triforce wielding LoZ newcomer? The roster hasn't changed since Melee when there have been many fan-favorite one-offs in Zelda games, but none of them ever mad enough the leap to Smash. Even the champions, some of the most likely Zelda newcomers and newcomers in general, seem like they'd fit more in Zelda/Link reworked movesets.

Does LoZ even have to get a newcomer as long as they update the existing roster? Do any newcomers from LoZ even deserve a spot?

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

i think people expecting up to 12 characters are getting their hopes up too much but if this ends being a smash sequel/expansion of the wiiu one, i expect a second wave of dlc incoming at least :0...

Still.. im wondering if we are getting an enhanched wiiu versio with a sequel to subsspace emmisary, or something like that? probably would be the perfect smash game, and seems doable in a 2 years framework

Idk about that, everything so far seems to imply that this is a brand new game, and with a dev cycle of over 2 years, no second version to make, probably no story mode and the fact that this game likely isn't gonna be built from the ground up like wii u was, 12-15 newcomers seems like a good amount tbh. We got 14 in wii u after all (although that came at the cost of 6 cuts but whatever)

Well, obviously we'll keep expecting characters that we want to see, and notice elements towards their inclusion that do'nt evne exist to begin with. I'll keep expecting the four horsemen Ridley/K.Rool/Bandana Dee/Waluigi until the end of times!

By the way guys, without necessarily mentioning anyone, of those four characters aforementioned, how many do you think will finally make it as playable this time?

I will say two.

In order of likeliness I'd say Bandana Dee > K Rool >>>>>> Waluigi >>Ridley tbh

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I'll be optimistic and say one.

I'll say one, and that's me being incredibly optimistic.

Well, great minds think alike, heh?

Though I understand your point, except for the Dee who is more recent, the other characters have been expected since Brawl.
The disconfirmation slaughter will probably come at E3, with the tournament showing multiple assist trophies.

Can we ever expect even a chance of a non triforce wielding LoZ newcomer? The roster hasn't changed since Melee when there have been many fan-favorite one-offs in Zelda games, but none of them ever mad enough the leap to Smash. Even the champions, some of the most likely Zelda newcomers and newcomers in general, seem like they'd fit more in Zelda/Link reworked movesets.

Does LoZ even have to get a newcomer as long as they update the existing roster? Do any newcomers from LoZ even deserve a spot?

That's the problem, ToZ doesn't have many characters reaching Zelda, Link and Ganondorf's popularity. The closest we have are Tingle and Impa.

 

[osby]

Idk about that, everything so far seems to imply that this is a brand new game, and with a dev cycle of over 2 years, no second version to make, probably no story mode and the fact that this game likely isn't gonna be built from the ground up like wii u was,

Just out of curiosity, do we have concrete information about "yes, Wii U models and animations can definitely be ported over to Switch" thing? Not a thing against the theory, I think so too, it's just that a lot of people were saying the same thing back in 2013.

 

[Cosmic77]

Can we ever expect even a chance of a non triforce wielding LoZ newcomer? The roster hasn't changed since Melee when there have been many fan-favorite one-offs in Zelda games, but none of them ever mad enough the leap to Smash. Even the champions, some of the most likely Zelda newcomers and newcomers in general, seem like they'd fit more in Zelda/Link reworked movesets.

Does LoZ even have to get a newcomer as long as they update the existing roster? Do any newcomers from LoZ even deserve a spot?

You guys can't get mad at me cause someone else brought the topic up.


Here's the way I see it. BotW was a ground-breaking game that got numerous awards and became the best-selling Zelda game of all time in almost a year since its release. Fans absolutely ate it up from the moment it hit store shelves, and Nintendo marketed the heck out of it. Not to sound pessimistic, but if we can't get any Zelda newcomers on the base roster or as DLC after a game like that, then I doubt there's hope for the series getting a newcomer in the future. I'm tired of Zelda not getting anything. Whether or not we get someone new in this game will decide if I'll ever invest my support in a Zelda character ever again.

As for the Champions being part of a moveset, I still don't think that's a good idea. First off, Link and Zelda have had the same basic moveset since Melee, so any major change would be a huge gamble on Sakurai's part. Second, the Champions are directly tied to BotW. There's not really a way you could work around them if Sakurai were to include a different incarnation of Link and Zelda in a future Smash game.

That's the problem, ToZ doesn't have many characters reaching Zelda, Link and Ganondorf's popularity. The closest we have are Tingle and Impa.

I don't think popularity is as much of an issue as relevancy, or at least not now. Tingle, Midna, and Skull Kid have always been popular, but none of them were able to get in Smash, despite having multiple chances to do so. The Champions have never had an opportunity to be considered for Smash before, and since Sakurai already seems to be going with a BotW theme, I'd say they're our best bet for a Zelda newcomer.

 

[Gumzilla]

Ok. This is highly, highly, unlikely in my opinion but.... What about....

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Can we ever expect even a chance of a non triforce wielding LoZ newcomer? The roster hasn't changed since Melee when there have been many fan-favorite one-offs in Zelda games, but none of them ever mad enough the leap to Smash. Even the champions, some of the most likely Zelda newcomers and newcomers in general, seem like they'd fit more in Zelda/Link reworked movesets.

Does LoZ even have to get a newcomer as long as they update the existing roster? Do any newcomers from LoZ even deserve a spot?

I feel like Impa is our best bet, with hyrule warriors probably helping out a lot in that regard. How I wish tetra (and I guess toon zelda) could've been in brawl, it was a wasted opportunity to not include them then and it's never gonna happen now.

Honestly the ballot gives me some hope for Zelda newcomers, for all we know someone like midna placed highly and a miracle will happen and she'll be playable lol

 

[Hinata]

Real talk: I don't really mind one way or the other if they bring back the big cinematic trailers for newcomers in this game, but what I DO hope they bring back is the posters they drew for each newcomer. You know, things like this.

Spoiler

I have Palutena's and Bayonetta's posters hanging on my wall, and I'd love to add an Inkling poster or the like to the collection.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

i think people expecting up to 12 characters are getting their hopes up too much but if this ends being a smash sequel/expansion of the wiiu one, i expect a second wave of dlc incoming at least :0...

Still.. im wondering if we are getting an enhanched wiiu versio with a sequel to subsspace emmisary, or something like that? probably would be the perfect smash game, and seems doable in a 2 years framework

I am wondering if Sakurai will actually do another DLC? And if he does, will the numbers increase or decrease? I'd say we should get no more than 5 this time around with how huge the roster is

 

[PeridotGX]

Ok. This is highly, highly, unlikely in my opinion but.... What about....

Rather unlikely. Isnt Yo-Kai on a decline in Japan, the only place where it mattered?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I feel like this when I visit the Brawl site again, it just hit all the right notes for me. You had this very healthy mix of proper allstars (Wario, Dedede, Diddy Kong, Meta Knight), recent characters (Ike, Lucario, Lucas, Olimar) and the unexpected (Pokémon Trainer, ZSS, R.O.B), and there was the initial euphoria of 3rd party additions, one which was the most surprising character we've ever gotten and the other being by far the most anticipated character we've ever had. It also had so much variety on other fronts, you had simple and complex characters, lightweights and heavyweights, cartoony and more realistic characters, humans and creatures, and a wide variety of fighting styles ranging from fists and swords to farts and C-4, there really was something for everyone.

I've long since accepted that Brawl's newcomer roster will never be topped for me, because it gave me everything I wanted, except for my most wanted that is. Because of this I try not to compare things to it too much, the only thing I'll accomplish by doing that is ruin what is otherwise going to be a good experience anyways. I really have no doubts that this game's roster will be great in its own right and will have a similar mass appeal to Smash 4's newcomer roster, because Sakurai is the best at what he's doing.

Brawl had hands down the best roster. It added all the iconic characters plus a few surprises. Smash 4 on the other hand didn’t have access to many of these iconic characters but still managed to make an amazing roster. A lot of “I didn’t know I wanted this character but now I love him/her/it/them!”

 

[NintendoKnight]

Geez, there's a whole lot of

on this page.

It's almost like we're all reading each other's minds or something...

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Real talk: I don't really mind one way or the other if they bring back the big cinematic trailers for newcomers in this game, but what I DO hope they bring back is the posters they drew for each newcomer. You know, things like this.

Spoiler

I have Palutena's and Bayonetta's posters hanging on my wall, and I'd love to add an Inkling poster or the like to the collection.

Same, I loved how for so many of them they brought in the original artists to do them

I'm not sure who did Xenoblade X's art but imagine this with smash characters

Spoiler

That would be amazing

and something like this for bandana dee would be so cute

お待たせしましたー！Nintendo Switchソフト『星のカービィ　スターアライズ』が本日発売です！
ハートをぶつけて敵を仲間に！？とっかえひっかえ大冒険！みんなで遊べるアクションゲームです！
一体、どんな冒険になるのでしょうか！？どきどき…！要チェックですー！！https://t.co/dvQVVQFCcS pic.twitter.com/7RWg5cC5RN

— 星のカービィ (@Kirby_JP) March 16, 2018

 

[Cosmic77]

I feel like Impa is our best bet, with hyrule warriors probably helping out a lot in that regard. How I wish tetra (and I guess toon zelda) could've been in brawl, it was a wasted opportunity to not include them then and it's never gonna happen now.

Impa's best shot at getting in as a playable character was in Smash 4.

In 2011, both Ocarina of Time 3D and Skyward Sword were released; at the time, those were the only two games that featured the young Impa we want to see in Smash. Not even a year later, Sakurai started making the roster for Smash 4. Timing was absolutely perfect, but she failed to make the base roster. In 2014, Impa became relevant once again through Hyrule Warriors, and she had a decent shot of making in thorugh DLC, especially since the rest of her competition had already been delegated to Assist Trophies. Unfortunately, she once again failed to get in the game.

Not saying Impa can't happen, but I do think people are grossly overestimating her chances as the next most-likely Zelda rep. She's technically in a worse position than what she was back in Smash 4, and the only thing she has going for her at the moment is Hyrule Warriors, a spin-off game where she has to share the spotlight with virtually every notable Zelda character.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Impa's best shot at getting in as a playable character was in Smash 4.

In 2011, both Ocarina of Time 3D and Skyward Sword were released; at the time, those were the only two games that featured the young Impa we want to see in Smash. Not even a year later, Sakurai started making the roster for Smash 4. Timing was absolutely perfect, but she failed to make the base roster. In 2014, Impa became relevant once again through Hyrule Warriors, and she had a decent shot of making in thorugh DLC, especially since the rest of her competition had already been delegated to Assist Trophies. Unfortunately, she once again failed to get in the game.

Not saying Impa can't happen, but I do think people are grossly overestimating her chances as the next most-likely Zelda rep. She's technically in a worse position than what she was back in Smash 4, and the only thing she has going for her at the moment is Hyrule Warriors, a spin-off game where she has to share the spotlight with virtually every notable Zelda character.

I feel like the other Zelda characters sticking to their twilight princess designs really hurt her chances of getting into 4 tbh. But impa having more and more appearances whether old or young it still helps her chances imo

 

[mario123007]

So I'm pretty much agree on this video where they point out the reasons why Rex & Pyra will be in Smash Switch.

Saying they are too new to be in Smash is also a fair point, but if Smash Switch is what GimR expecting to be, then I think Smash Switch might just have more new characters from fairly new and niche games than we expected, because they don't need to make the game from scratch, all they need to focus on are the new contents and new characters. Smash 4's roster was decided way early was because they were making the game entirely from scratch.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

So I'm pretty much agree on this video where they point out the reasons why Rex & Pyra will be in Smash Switch.

Saying they are too new to be in Smash is also a fair point, but if Smash Switch is what GimR expecting to be, then I think Smash Switch might just have more new characters from fairly new and niche games than we expected, because they don't need to make the game from scratch, all they need to focus on are the new contents and new characters. Smash 4's roster was decided way early was because they were making the game entirely from scratch.

the whole rex vs elma thing hurts my head, I don't think we've ever had this issue with another character with smash games falling right in between different releases of the same series and having completely different options when it comes to characters lol.

 

[mario123007]

the whole rex vs elma thing hurts my head, I don't think we've ever had this issue with another character with smash games falling right in between different releases of the same series and having completely different options when it comes to characters lol.

Yeah, that's why I never really mention Elma because I think Source Gaming can also make another "Rate That Character" video.

 

[CroonerMike]

the whole rex vs elma thing hurts my head, I don't think we've ever had this issue with another character with smash games falling right in between different releases of the same series and having completely different options when it comes to characters lol.

My biggest issues with people who usually want Rex and Pyra are that they claim that no one from ARMS can get in because the game is new. Blind to their own wants

 

[Freduardo]

When did Elma overtake cross in fan want? Like I know it happened, I just don’t remember when exactly that happened.

I feel like it was around the time the game was announced or just after.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

When did Elma overtake cross in fan want? Like I know it happened, I just don’t remember when exactly that happened.

I feel like it was around the time the game was announced or just after.

tbh it was after X released and everyone realized that Cross literally wasn't a character lmfao

 

[Arcanir]

So I'm pretty much agree on this video where they point out the reasons why Rex & Pyra will be in Smash Switch.

Saying they are too new to be in Smash is also a fair point, but if Smash Switch is what GimR expecting to be, then I think Smash Switch might just have more new characters from fairly new and niche games than we expected, because they don't need to make the game from scratch, all they need to focus on are the new contents and new characters. Smash 4's roster was decided way early was because they were making the game entirely from scratch.

Smash 4 actually used assets from Brawl as well, maybe not to the extent that some speculate it to be with Smash Switch, but it still wasn't made from the ground up either.

Also, the reason Sakurai gives for deciding the roster early is actually because making any changes to the roster afterwards affects workloads and production costs. Even a game that reuses assets like a port would still have to take those into account, so it likely wouldn't change his mindset on the matter.

 

[Rockaphin]

Pichu and Young link can honestly be kept imo, no thank you lol. I'd love for ivysaur and squirtle to come back tho, they were both really fun characters.

I definitely agree. While I had fun with Pichu, I don't think the character should return.

Squirtle and Ivysaur on the other hand were completely unique characters that I truly miss. I doubt we'll see them return, but it's such a shame to see such unique characters gone.

 

[Jak_spoon]

Can we ever expect even a chance of a non triforce wielding LoZ newcomer? The roster hasn't changed since Melee when there have been many fan-favorite one-offs in Zelda games, but none of them ever mad enough the leap to Smash. Even the champions, some of the most likely Zelda newcomers and newcomers in general, seem like they'd fit more in Zelda/Link reworked movesets.

Does LoZ even have to get a newcomer as long as they update the existing roster? Do any newcomers from LoZ even deserve a spot?

This actually makes me really made. The Zelda series characters stink in Smash. I mean Captaindorf says it all. And even though Zelda games sell way more than FE games they get new characters each game but Zelda doesn't. The "non returning" thing is BS because because FE characters are one shots too. Its its not like Zelda characters dont have moveset potential. I mean lord almighty link has used how many different types of items and yet Sakurai cant think of anything to add from one of Nintendo's most important series.


I'm going to go into a corner and zen. This makes me so mad. But really I think after all is said and done in this version of Smash the Zelda series is the one that deserves 2 new character additions the most.

 

[Imadethistoseealeak]

the whole rex vs elma thing hurts my head, I don't think we've ever had this issue with another character with smash games falling right in between different releases of the same series and having completely different options when it comes to characters lol.

I think the only comperable series would be Pokemon as it also has revolving "cast" of important "characters". This isn't an issue for most Nintendo games because they have reoccurring characters. If corrin didn't get into Dlc we might be having a Corrin vs. Celica debate lol.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I'm about to go into a conspiracy theory I've been thinking about for a while. If it's true that Sheik and Zelda are amongst the shadowy figures in the Smash trailer then I think we'll see a new Zelda character.

I remember when we got the 4 Mario veterans revealed in the span of 3 months I predicted that we would get a new Mario character because "why would they reveal all the Mario characters so soon?".

It seems all the Mario characters were revealed so soon, because they appear in Rosalina's cinematic trailer, and they wanted to reveal them before posting the trailer. What if Zelda and Sheik are being revealed so early on, because they both appear in a new Zelda characters trailer which will be shown sooner than later? Maybe it's a character who has a connection to Zelda and Sheik like Impa?

That's my prediction; Impa will be revealed, because I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist.

 

[Jak_spoon]

I think the only comperable series would be Pokemon as it also has revolving "cast" of important "characters". This isn't an issue for most Nintendo games because they have reoccurring characters. If corrin didn't get into Dlc we might be having a Corrin vs. Celica debate lol.

I don't understand the Celica following at all. I mean haven't we seen that remakes don't determine anything/increase anyone's chances. I get that it was a remake that was a long time coming but after getting so much up to date FE in the last smash I think were just going to not get any cuts or additions.

That being said I know know spin offs don't determine or increase characters chances but Pokemon Go came out right when Sakurai was making the list right? That had to have put Pokemon/1 Gen on his mind. Right?